To get information, to thin the deck, to do tricks with darkblast, fill the graveyard for tombstalker. Things like that . I prefer them to discard actually.
The banning of Top has me bummed about Legacy, in particular because I think it makes this deck better, and this is the only Legacy deck I can afford or have the cards for. Without Top, you are more at the mercy of top decks, and some of the cards we play are pretty miserable top decks. What do you all think? Is there a good replacement to give us some card selection? I was thinking about splashing Green for Sylvan Library, but then I would have to get into duals of which I only have a few (and no Bayous). The deck is still definitely playable without Top, but I will miss it.
I'll be glad to see the end of miracles, but I agree top was great for this deck.
I was thinking about other cards to go in but I haven't been paying much attention.
I think cards like funeral charm or collective brutality might have some benefit since they are useful for a wider variety of situations. In my list I might substitute another land and another win-con. I'll update the primer when I make a decision.
Cheers
New to the deck and the thread - please let me know if I'm in the wrong place.
Played this deck for the first time at a Legacy 1K. I went 2-4. Unfamiliarity with the deck, and to some extent the metagame/format, punished me hard. I feel like had I made one or two different card choices (and remembered my stupid upkeep triggers), I definitely would have done much better.
His deck was sweet. He had two Experimental Frenzy, and the standard other Lands stuff including Punishing Fire and Molten Vortex. Basically just out valued me in the first game; it wasn't even really a game. In game two, I play Chalice of the Void on 0 (mistake #1). I was able to Surgical Extraction his Thespian's Stage on turn 2/3, but I sideboarded poorly (mistake #2): I did not bring in my Leyline of the Void or my Ratchet Bomb. Very newb mistake. I feel like lands is a very good matchup, but please correct me if I'm wrong. He is basically able to resolve every Exploration effect he has and then proceed to Ghost Quarter lock me - it wasn't easy for him due to 10 Swamp main, and he got pretty low on resources having to Life from the Loam a lot and recur Punishing Fire. It ended up being close - his library had 6 cards in it in the end I think.
Match 2 - vs Enchantress 2-1
I solidly got there in round 1. They don't have much that lines up well with Sinkhole, Wasteland, and Ghost Quarter pre-board. He scooped at turn 4 or 5 to get to the next games. Game 2 was a grind fest. He was able to hard cast a Leyline of Sanctity, I resolved a Ratchet Bomb and started ticking it up. I ultimate Liliana, the Last Hope. He had 2-3 enchantress effects out and Solitary Confinement when I passed turn with a tapped Ratchet Bomb on 3. I'm sitting on 12 Zombois, ready to crack the bomb and win. He draws...Pithing Needle naming Ratchet Bomb. Proceed to scoop phase. Game 3 I forget all the stuff that happened, but it wasn't much as he mulligans and I just destroy his lands and tick up Liliana of the Veil.
Match 3 vs. Red Prison 0-2
Played against a guy that I played in the Standard RPTQ last summer during the worst format at an RPTQ ever, Team Unified Standard. He remembers me because the match was really grindy, and he topdecked lucky to beat me when he was dead the following turn. This match was a heartbreaker. I never saw Diabolic Edict or Smallpox in game one, so he goes the route of hardcasting two Simian Spirt Guides. Which I promptly lose to. Ugh. Game 2 I thoroughly lock him down on resources for a good amount of time. Some Liliana of the Veil happen, I kill Pia and Kiran Nilan in response to the trigger for thopters with a Diabolic Edict, resolve a couple Sinkhole. We are trading resources. He's in topdeck mode, and he draws Chalice of the Void, promptly casting it on 2. Gross. I lose to a resolved Hazoret the Fervent. I could have played a couple of things differently here, and probably would in future, but you can't beat the top of someone's deck sometimes.
Match 4 vs. Lands 2-0
After my disastrous misplaying and terrible sideboarding in the first Lands matchup, I turn it around to thoroughly stomp Lands in a second chance against a friend of mine from my local. He plays his deck much better than I do due to familiarity, so I feel pretty good about squeaking it out against him. We do a lot of resource trading in game 1, and this is the first time my spicy one-of shows up, and it's an all-star. Mastermind's Acquisition is SO good. I suggest testing it. Every time I used it, it was ultra relevant. Never felt dead. This time, it got Syphon Life to combat Punishing Fire after I had resolved Crucible of Worlds. Game 2 I sideboarded correctly (!) and life was good. I played my Hymn to Tourach and Bojuka Bog backwards (d'oh) and resolved a turn 4 Leyline of the Void. He still had three lands in his graveyard when resolved, so he got to Loam once. I'm able to resolve Bitterblossom and Nether Spirit, and it's lights out.
Match 5 vs. UW Stoneblade 0-2
This match was sad because my sideboard was ill-prepared for Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and I was bad at Magic again. TO be fair, I expected a ton more Death and Taxes and sideboarded accordingly. I have a great start, using Hymn twice in the first 3 turns of the game. He resolves True-Name Nemesis, and I proceed to take lots of beats. No big deal: 1 lightning bolt each turn is nothing to worry about yet. I'm able to resolve a Nether Spirit to attack, and Phyrexian Totem to block or attack later. I'm thinking ahead, and I start looking through my sideboard. He jokes, "We can go to game two and you can use those cards if you want." He passes turn, I resolve Mastermind's Acquisition, and say, "How about I just use them now?" I fetch out Night of Soul's Betrayal, and he says, "Well, that's mean." I say, "Yeah, but sometimes you have to be a little mean." I have to block a Stoneforge with my Totem as I am at 5 life, so it bites the dust. I resolve Toxic Deluge next turn, and totally forget about my Nether Spirit triggers FOR THE REST OF THE GAME. What a heel. He resolves Jace after I've resolved Liliana. I ultimate Liliana, he ultimates Jace, life is awful. Game two plays out similarly. I had Chalice of the Void on turn 1 if I wanted to. Instead, I sat there scared of Force of Will for about 30 seconds and then passed turn with just a Swamp. Lesson learned: BE BRAVE. FEAR NOTHING. I'm able to Hymn, he discards something irrelevant and True-Name Nemesis. I Extirpate the TNNs. This game I also get GOT by Jace. I think there was a Disenchant in there somewhere. I ultimate Liliana of the Veil again, he ultimates Jace again. I'm out of the tournament.
There's one round left, and I'm a dad that doesn't get to play much. I stuck around. Should have left though, because...
Match 6 vs. Eldrazi Post (little version?) 0-2
This matchup seems terrible. Between Reality Smasher, Thought-Knot Seer, Eye of Ugin tutoring, and bad land one-for-ones, It's pretty hard. They topdeck live even when they topdeck dead due to the sheer volume of multi-mana use lands they have. I can't recall everything that happened, but it was a lot of Edict effects and Wastelands on stuff that didn't matter. He solidly stomped me after resolving multiple Walking Ballista and finally an Endbringer in Game 2.
So, I really enjoyed the deck, even though my play was a workshop in sub-optimal plays and compounding punishment. I will play it again. The deck does not feel poorly positioned. I have two Helm of Obedience on order because I love spicy plays. Also Contamination, Engineered Plague, Massacre, and a some other stuff to test out. To the Slaughter is now a two-of in the board, and I have switched up the main to run two Mastermind's Acquisition, going down a Dark Ritual. I replaced a single Swamp with an Ifnir Deadlands to test, as indestructible creatures (like Hazoret) are a thing.
Any suggestions are welcome!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
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My deck has always been working best with a rack and Bloodghast in play.
3 The Rack
4 Bloodghast
2 tombstalker
3 shrieking affliction
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
2 gitaxian probe
2 wrench mind
2 liliana of the veil
12 Swamp
1 polluted delta
4 bloodstained mire
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
I was thinking about other cards to go in but I haven't been paying much attention.
I think cards like funeral charm or collective brutality might have some benefit since they are useful for a wider variety of situations. In my list I might substitute another land and another win-con. I'll update the primer when I make a decision.
Cheers
Don't know what happened Dromar though.
4 Bloodghast
4 nihilith
1 buried alive
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
3 liliana of the veil
2 liliana, the last hope
4 dark ritual
1 nihil spellbomb
1 polluted delta
4 marsh flats
13 Swamp
2 Tombstalker
4 Shrieking Affliction
1 Buried Alive
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Darkblast
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
13 Swamp
1 Wasteland
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Pithing Needle
4 Engineered Plague
Opponents where three Delver and one Maverick.
Played this deck for the first time at a Legacy 1K. I went 2-4. Unfamiliarity with the deck, and to some extent the metagame/format, punished me hard. I feel like had I made one or two different card choices (and remembered my stupid upkeep triggers), I definitely would have done much better.
1 Nether Spirit
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Spells (23)
3 Dark Ritual
3 Thoughtseize
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
Artifacts (8)
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Defense Grid
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Phyrexian Totem
1 Trinisphere
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
10 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wasteland
1 Syphon Life
2 Duress
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Dread of Night
1 Bitterblossom
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
Matchups:
Match 1 - vs BGr Lands 0-2
His deck was sweet. He had two Experimental Frenzy, and the standard other Lands stuff including Punishing Fire and Molten Vortex. Basically just out valued me in the first game; it wasn't even really a game. In game two, I play Chalice of the Void on 0 (mistake #1). I was able to Surgical Extraction his Thespian's Stage on turn 2/3, but I sideboarded poorly (mistake #2): I did not bring in my Leyline of the Void or my Ratchet Bomb. Very newb mistake. I feel like lands is a very good matchup, but please correct me if I'm wrong. He is basically able to resolve every Exploration effect he has and then proceed to Ghost Quarter lock me - it wasn't easy for him due to 10 Swamp main, and he got pretty low on resources having to Life from the Loam a lot and recur Punishing Fire. It ended up being close - his library had 6 cards in it in the end I think.
Match 2 - vs Enchantress 2-1
I solidly got there in round 1. They don't have much that lines up well with Sinkhole, Wasteland, and Ghost Quarter pre-board. He scooped at turn 4 or 5 to get to the next games. Game 2 was a grind fest. He was able to hard cast a Leyline of Sanctity, I resolved a Ratchet Bomb and started ticking it up. I ultimate Liliana, the Last Hope. He had 2-3 enchantress effects out and Solitary Confinement when I passed turn with a tapped Ratchet Bomb on 3. I'm sitting on 12 Zombois, ready to crack the bomb and win. He draws...Pithing Needle naming Ratchet Bomb. Proceed to scoop phase. Game 3 I forget all the stuff that happened, but it wasn't much as he mulligans and I just destroy his lands and tick up Liliana of the Veil.
Match 3 vs. Red Prison 0-2
Played against a guy that I played in the Standard RPTQ last summer during the worst format at an RPTQ ever, Team Unified Standard. He remembers me because the match was really grindy, and he topdecked lucky to beat me when he was dead the following turn. This match was a heartbreaker. I never saw Diabolic Edict or Smallpox in game one, so he goes the route of hardcasting two Simian Spirt Guides. Which I promptly lose to. Ugh. Game 2 I thoroughly lock him down on resources for a good amount of time. Some Liliana of the Veil happen, I kill Pia and Kiran Nilan in response to the trigger for thopters with a Diabolic Edict, resolve a couple Sinkhole. We are trading resources. He's in topdeck mode, and he draws Chalice of the Void, promptly casting it on 2. Gross. I lose to a resolved Hazoret the Fervent. I could have played a couple of things differently here, and probably would in future, but you can't beat the top of someone's deck sometimes.
Match 4 vs. Lands 2-0
After my disastrous misplaying and terrible sideboarding in the first Lands matchup, I turn it around to thoroughly stomp Lands in a second chance against a friend of mine from my local. He plays his deck much better than I do due to familiarity, so I feel pretty good about squeaking it out against him. We do a lot of resource trading in game 1, and this is the first time my spicy one-of shows up, and it's an all-star. Mastermind's Acquisition is SO good. I suggest testing it. Every time I used it, it was ultra relevant. Never felt dead. This time, it got Syphon Life to combat Punishing Fire after I had resolved Crucible of Worlds. Game 2 I sideboarded correctly (!) and life was good. I played my Hymn to Tourach and Bojuka Bog backwards (d'oh) and resolved a turn 4 Leyline of the Void. He still had three lands in his graveyard when resolved, so he got to Loam once. I'm able to resolve Bitterblossom and Nether Spirit, and it's lights out.
Match 5 vs. UW Stoneblade 0-2
This match was sad because my sideboard was ill-prepared for Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and I was bad at Magic again. TO be fair, I expected a ton more Death and Taxes and sideboarded accordingly. I have a great start, using Hymn twice in the first 3 turns of the game. He resolves True-Name Nemesis, and I proceed to take lots of beats. No big deal: 1 lightning bolt each turn is nothing to worry about yet. I'm able to resolve a Nether Spirit to attack, and Phyrexian Totem to block or attack later. I'm thinking ahead, and I start looking through my sideboard. He jokes, "We can go to game two and you can use those cards if you want." He passes turn, I resolve Mastermind's Acquisition, and say, "How about I just use them now?" I fetch out Night of Soul's Betrayal, and he says, "Well, that's mean." I say, "Yeah, but sometimes you have to be a little mean." I have to block a Stoneforge with my Totem as I am at 5 life, so it bites the dust. I resolve Toxic Deluge next turn, and totally forget about my Nether Spirit triggers FOR THE REST OF THE GAME. What a heel. He resolves Jace after I've resolved Liliana. I ultimate Liliana, he ultimates Jace, life is awful. Game two plays out similarly. I had Chalice of the Void on turn 1 if I wanted to. Instead, I sat there scared of Force of Will for about 30 seconds and then passed turn with just a Swamp. Lesson learned: BE BRAVE. FEAR NOTHING. I'm able to Hymn, he discards something irrelevant and True-Name Nemesis. I Extirpate the TNNs. This game I also get GOT by Jace. I think there was a Disenchant in there somewhere. I ultimate Liliana of the Veil again, he ultimates Jace again. I'm out of the tournament.
There's one round left, and I'm a dad that doesn't get to play much. I stuck around. Should have left though, because...
Match 6 vs. Eldrazi Post (little version?) 0-2
This matchup seems terrible. Between Reality Smasher, Thought-Knot Seer, Eye of Ugin tutoring, and bad land one-for-ones, It's pretty hard. They topdeck live even when they topdeck dead due to the sheer volume of multi-mana use lands they have. I can't recall everything that happened, but it was a lot of Edict effects and Wastelands on stuff that didn't matter. He solidly stomped me after resolving multiple Walking Ballista and finally an Endbringer in Game 2.
So, I really enjoyed the deck, even though my play was a workshop in sub-optimal plays and compounding punishment. I will play it again. The deck does not feel poorly positioned. I have two Helm of Obedience on order because I love spicy plays. Also Contamination, Engineered Plague, Massacre, and a some other stuff to test out. To the Slaughter is now a two-of in the board, and I have switched up the main to run two Mastermind's Acquisition, going down a Dark Ritual. I replaced a single Swamp with an Ifnir Deadlands to test, as indestructible creatures (like Hazoret) are a thing.
Any suggestions are welcome!
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War