4 verdent catacombs (can be any green fetches) 2 winsdswept heath (can be any fetches, I don't run a swamp) 1 tower of the magistrate (there to help cast Thought-Knot, it is a useful utility land for making opposing equips drop off anyway)
2 mox diamond 1 chrome mox (not sure on this split, 3/4 Mox d is not as stellar as in stax as I don't run crucible, only Titania, and I can't deal with enemy DRS easily anyway.)
sideboard 1 pithing needle (obvious) 1 spatial contortion (kills Teeg, Mirran and Mommy) 2 phyrexian revoker (Planeswalkers, Mommy, Stoneforge, Miracles, though not for long, may go down to 1) 2 toxic deluge (obvious) 2 engineered plague (obvious) 1 grafdigger's cage (extra bin hate, knackers my GSZ) 3 choke (obvious) 2 wheel of sun and moon (anti bin plus does not affect mine, can theoretically protect me from losing to a grindstone painter combo, avoids chalice for 1) 1 warping wail (kills mommy and thalia, counters show and tell etc. (may go to 2)
Issues: is the Moxen/solland/GSZ balance right? I think it is, its smoother than ever, fetching basics is often right
Should I run more DRS despite chalice often being set to 1? Unsure here, need to test.
Is the correct number of TKS 4? Just 5 solands and 4 wastelands plus tower of the magistrate suggests no to 4 TKS, to me.
Can I play one or two more 1cc spells?
Laser Brains, !3 Lands, and one of them dies to a Lightning Bolt, you are also playing 4 mana spells, and Sphere of Resistance. I would up the land count.
If you want to play with Winter Orb and Root Maze, I would up the land count. Add in Garruk Wildspeaker and 4 Ports.
Ports are really bad with Winter Orb. Like really bad. Also, the low land count reflects that I get my mana from sources other than multiple lands. The idea is to get Orb into play, especially with Root Maze. The deck operates quite well with one land, any extra lands just come into play tapped and don't untap. Mostly I'll drop them as fuel for Sylvan Safekeeper or I'll hang on to them to bluff my opponent and/or to fuel Masticore, but really I don't want to top deck land especially after my engine is set up. Outside of that I really don't want to see more than one to two lands opening hand.
I've really considered Garruck and even tested him but really I get plenty of mana. Often, I get so much mana that I don't know what to do with so I don't feel he's necessary, especially as a four drop when I can drop bigger bombs such as Primal Order.
What happens 90% of the time is that you stack a land with Wild Growths and drop one of the 8 Arbor Elves (thanks to GSZ) to crank out an obscene amount of mana. I've been doing a ton of testing and the land count is not even an issue unless I don't draw one at all. There are over 30 mana sources counting GSZ, ESG, Arbor Elves, Growths etc.. The only danger is either not drawing one at all or stacking Wild Growths on one land and putting all my eggs in one basket. Fortunately, Sinkhole and Ghost Quarter are not super popular in the current meta and Forests are Wasteland proof.
I actually have a new list if anyone wants to see it. It's not terribly different but I've cut the Sphere of Resistance package for other options and it is considerably more consistent. Also, bigger bombs.
So the newest list I believe is quite possibly the optimal Winter Orb / Root Maze list. Like I said before Root Maze on it's own is nuts against 80% of the decks in the meta as most decks run fetch lands thus forcing an opponent to wait three turns before getting any access to mana from these lands. Further more Root Maze can single handedly shut down most combo decks especially storm and it soft locks nicely with Winter Orb.
Anyhow, in the new list I have cut Sphere of Resistance for a pair of Trinisphere and Umezawa's Jittes for crowd control. With testing I've gone back to running Trinisphere which should be dropped after your mana engine has been set up. It has great synergy with Root Maze and even better synergy with Winter Orb. Jitte for obvious reasons as the deck was light on crowd control and in the event you don't get your Primal Order it furthers your aggro package, it just has so many tricks. One of which is it's synergy with Wickerbough Elder, which is why I cut Reclamation Sage.
Another change is that I've added a lone Vorapede. Vorapede has been overlooked in favor of Thragtusk in other builds because of it's GGG2 casting cost, but here without running Sol Lands we actually have access to the GGG. He doesn't gain you life but he is considerably better than Thragtusk. He's bigger, harder to kill and comes back as a 6/5 rather than a 3/3. Plus he has trample and vigilance. He's easy to cast off of GSZ and is a nice alternative as a Primal Order target in the event that you happened to draw Progenitus (pitching Progenitus to Masticore is handy for shuffling him back into your deck btw).
Anyhow, here is the new list. In testing, I'm really really liking the new changes.
I think Thrag gets the benefit of the 3/3 being a leave the battlefield trigger as well as being better v burn.
Vorapede requires it going to the graveyard, which is less common in a format where swords/terminus are premier removal.
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He is good, but thrag is used in Nic Fit, which is a good indicator.
Thrun is quite good too....but Thrag is better. The best one in my deck is Titania, but she is not going to do anything in yours.....(
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drmarkb: I'm going to have to switch the Vorapede slot to Thragtusk. I've poured through other green five drops and can't find anything better. He just seems so underwhelming as a GSZ bomb. And you are right, sadly Titania doesn't fit my build. I will test your list though. Looks solid!
I don't get Leatherback Baloth in your list, considering how soft the list could be to a Chalice @1 on the draw I would be looking for more removal (eg sage no 2 or Wickerbough Elder) or interference cards to buy time like Tanglewire. I would rather run utility dudes over bigger vanilla monsters- I am sure Death and Taxes could run bigger men for 3 mana than Aven mindcensor, for example, but that restriction is so good. I think you need creatures to do something besides being creatures. Thragtusk is a good case in point- its great against every non combo deck, the life buying time, and the card leaving a mate when it leaves.
You could also consider some non basics like tower of the magistrate if you need to up the land count or start including the magnificent Thought-knot seer, who are guys that really rock, naturally giving an out to Death and Taxes' Mirran Crusader and interacting with enemy hands. Obviously forests are essential for sprawl, I am not saying replace them.
Now is a good time financially to get wastelands, btw, they are always great.
I think the biggest issue in this type of deck is minimising duplicate effects- one winter orb is as good as two, ditto root maze. That is the deck building issue that is hard to sort without fetches and Top, Mirri's Guile or Sylvan.
On this deck, I have played my version once in the past six months at tournaments, its a great deck but I have had another project on the go, and have had to update several other lists I keep for loan purposes, and thus I have been limited to a few playtest sessions where I tried to square a few circles- Thought-Knots went a long way towards that, tinkering with mana and boards went the rest. I think you have to ask yourself if you are a Chalice Stompy disruption deck then why not play Eldrazi? To that end I tried to build mine between Maverick, Nic Fit and All in Red/Eldrazi type stompy decks, doing things that Eldraz Stompy decks don't.
Thanks for the imput, ill try to get something working with your tips in mind
The Baloth was just a dumb beater, cause i felt i needed something to capitalice a soft lock and seal the deal before the opponent recovers, but i can see what you mean.
If you got some matches with your deck and find a new cool version of it post it!!
I loaned this deck to a mate last night- list similar to my post above, one or two of the cuter cards have gone, the board is a bit more tuned.
He had not played Legacy for a long time.
He lost to Pox-prison (me) 0-2.
He beat Miracles (standard URW mentor build) 2-0
He beat Infect 2-1 (Infect was not at its blistering best- g3 finished with him having a Choke, chalice @1, Chalice @2, 3 sphere and E plague down- ouch!)
He lost to reanimator (standard issue UB). 0-2 (I think he maybe should have mulled more?)
I will look to take TKS to 4 and have already taken Decay to 3 copies.
Looking at this deck (have been for a long time as a have a soft spot for mono green strategies). I love mono green. and while i know it is far from top tier I feel it can hang well enough if work is put into it.
In my experience, the Tanglewire package is much stronger than smokestack aspects- and that is coming from someone who is a regular Mono-W humility/geddon stax player as well. Smokestacks only really work well in lists designed with mana restriction in mind. You need to play the stacks with things like Crucible, Flagstones, 'Geddon et al., and really focus on removing their mana so that the Smokestack kills problem permanents and not just land- it also helps if you can sac the Smokestack after ratcheting it up or keep a smokestack at 1 for a while while the enemy has no land- even keeping it down if they are down to zero permanents- which green lists have difficulty in doing. I tried Smokestacks in lists with things like Thragtusk, Master etc., and in the end they always ended up being less impressive than other cards like Chalice, Wasteland or Tanglewire. Chalice in particular is the outstanding card that ruins certain decks, and mono-g is often at its weakest against combo decks, which Chalice shines against. So many opponents almost scoop to a t1 chalice, I would be interested to see what meta has them as a board card.
Mono G may work, but I am struggling with green man lands- they are just too slow unless you are playing some kind of Root Maze/Orb type list. Have you considered using Thought-knot seer and increasing colorless sources using Mishra's factory in lieu of the green man lands? TKS gives hand attack and an exceptionally decent body, as well as reducing side issues like Pro green from Mother of Runes in hatebear lists. You could even include LLanowar Wastes and Lotus Petals over Spirit Guides in order to splash for B, to give that Abrupt Decay for Miracles/1cc discard board option for combo. Worth thinking about...
Titania, I can assure you, is an absolute house.
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Putting thought into TKS and the black splash. it is like you read my mind. Smokestack has been underwhelming sadly but I sort of predicted that. Remobing stacks makes tracker a bit worse I can see the straight tks swap. Bobtowns become factories. I could try the llanowar wastes route with some duress. Thoughtsieze might hit to heavy on life when matched with wastes and tomb.I'm tweaking the build this weekend. More updates soon.
It took me a couple of years working on and off to develop a build I am comfortable with. I am primarily a humility-stax player and pox player first, and parfait second. The thing is playing the stax decks helped me realise why the smokestacks were not working- it is a question of speed and the fact that smokestacks are not mana denial unless you actually run other mana denial cards and stuff to neutralise the plays that slip under it. Smokestack with a choice for them is symmetrical, and we need asymmetric effects.
The chalice/tanglewire engine is always decent in whatever deck it goes in. Check out MTG top 8 and do a chalice search for 2016- it is in a wide variety of decks- Dragon Stompy, Al in Red, Eldrazi of all varieties, Merfolk, Stax, MUD etc.
GSZ is always decent as t1 acceleration and toolbox a la Maverick.
Tracker is always good in Nic Fit type decks- although it works best in fetch heavy decks, it does give grind power regardless.
But whatever mono green deck you come up with will always have issues about fast combo decks, unless it itself also runs a combo- of which green has just one- Natural Order into big monster, which is a good combo, although it sucks to get countered and is not that fast. Green does not even have viable t0 effects like Leylines like white and black do (although it could run them in the board and hope, it is never that good to have otherwise uncastable cards in the deck), so it is vulnerable in those t1/t2s on the draw. Chalice @4 copies is only 40% likely to be in your hand, and there are no other anti combo cards in green outside of trinisphere, lodestone golem and sphere of resistance, and its unlikely they come down t1. All are maindeckable, but sphere of resistance effects alone won't always stop a good storm player. Root maze is a great slower, but conflicts with chalice set to 1 as it normally is.
Ultimately I tried the black splash as I needed hand interaction - which is what makes Nic Fit and Jund playable- they can take threats out without them hitting. I use 1cc discard in the board, TKS main. With 1 cc discard and chalice you have a high chance of hitting a disruptive t1 play against decks like Infect or Storm, say. Later potential conflicts between Chalice and 1cc discard need not be worried about- Chalice probably won't stay around forever and if it does you are winning. In order to facilitate the black splash I did add bayou and llanowar wastes, together with two mox diamonds, but it could be done with lotus petals (which circumvent lodestone golem) and wastes alone- a urborg, tomb might also work and have the benefit of making sol lands tap for B rather than damage.
The life issue in the deck is real, sadly, hence I use Thragtusk. Self damage is always a big part of sol lands.
It helped that I had people willing to borrow my version of the deck and play it, suggesting changes. Only recently I took advice to go to 3 1cc black removal in the board and to 4 Decay main, as well as other little tweaks suggested to me by players in playtest sessions.
Good luck with it.....
I am grateful for your experience and advice. I plan on keeping it mono G. It's a fun deck that encapsulates my preference for aggressive decks with taxing/prison elements (Death and Taxes in legacy and shops in Vintage are my go to decks). I brought the TKS's in regardless dropping tracker and stacks. I swapped bobtowns for factories and added a couple tree of tales to fuel metalcraft. I also brought chalice into the main as well. The brigade raise some eyebrows but the beatings are real. If it was my only legacy deck I would certainly add black for duress and decay at least. I did add faerie macabre to my board to combat some graveyard decks.
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TKS are currently very cheap anyway- solid multi-format cards, underpriced.
Mono G is always fun. Laser brains has a root maze winter orb list with Natural Order that is mono G- - it looks fun. I went to B for another reason beyond card quality- I had the cash from sales, I needed excuses to buy Bayous!
My list for reference- worth comparing to my May post to see how it has been tightened.
board 2 choke (Euro metas are less blue, I don't play big 100 player plus events that tend towards blue decks, smaller events here tend to be fewer safe choice decks) (miracles, delver decks of all sorts) 2 thoughtseize (generic combo decks that I lack answers to eg show and tell based ones) 1 inquisition of kozilek (both 1cc discard come in with chalice against decks like infect as well as storm, high tide) 4 leyline of the void (reanimator, storm, loam decks like lands) 2 engineered plague (elves, d n t, some delver lists, maverick) 1 warping wail (d n t, show and tell decks) 1 melira, sylvok outcast (infect is quite prevalent- it makes GSZ better and gives them a critter that must be removed) 1 toxic deluge (d n t, maverick, affinity) 1 reverent silence (enchantress and other humility decks
I am considering a diabolic edict card for the board over warping wail, for reanimator- I do not see much show and tell nowadays, so wail is often only additional critter removal. I always feel I should consider putting a swamp in and running catacombs- making me less vulnerable to opposing wastelands, but, honestly the black is only there for DRS activations and abrupt decay- and the decks abrupt decay are most useful against- miracles and infect- well, neither run full sets of wastelands.
i have bayous in depths, as well as in my old school deck so if the notion strikes me i have them. im going to put a few more weeks into gathering the last pieces, this will prolly be my last legacy project and im loving depths right now so im not hurting on anything.
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I think they (ADecayx4) basically help with Miracles and Delver lists, to a lesser extent hatebear lists with equipment, and the 1cc give a minor edge against fast combo post board, whilst LOTV is justifiable with black sources in the lists. But I think it could be made as a decent mono G effort. It would not be as flexible- missing out on one of the format's generic answers is always going to be painful-but it could cover most of the weaknesses. I like depths lists, Bayous will do a lot more work there.
If I were to not run them and be mono-g for Trinity/Trinichoke -the deck needs a name that sticks- then I would probably include
(a) A couple of extra useful lands to act as pseudo removal/skip past counterlocks- Maze of Ith, Manlands. That might mean me running 1 more Mox Diamond, and maybe bringing a Loam engine or Crucible + Ghost Quarter. [Crucible is a valid consideration in any list for my money, anyway]
(b) I would consider dismember in the board, and probably skew the board towards removal in general- Krosan Grip being obvious. I would combine Relic of Progenitus, Wheel of S and M and Farie Macabre as my bin hate depending on the meta.
That said, given the colorless contingent, LLanowar Wastes help avoid the colorless mana screw in my build- Mox Diamonds can't produce colorless- so I actually have a lot of time for just using them over Bayous and keeping the black splash- it is never fun being color screwed for colorless......
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Man the push for black is strong. My early game is very weak. If I'm not chalicing early I am usually behind. If I make it into the midgame I can usually pull ahead. Gonna grab some abrupt decay and seizes and try them out.
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Meren works too for mid game punch. Fetches make sylvan work too. In my list above I am taking out the wall of root- an ovehang from when it was more Staxy-y- and putting in a 4cc green card - Meren.
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4 ancient tomb
1 city of traitors
6 forest
2 bayou
4 verdent catacombs (can be any green fetches)
2 winsdswept heath (can be any fetches, I don't run a swamp)
1 tower of the magistrate (there to help cast Thought-Knot, it is a useful utility land for making opposing equips drop off anyway)
2 mox diamond
1 chrome mox (not sure on this split, 3/4 Mox d is not as stellar as in stax as I don't run crucible, only Titania, and I can't deal with enemy DRS easily anyway.)
1 dryad arbor (GSZ target)
2 sylvan library (core)
2 green sun's zenith (core, could be 3?)
2 abrupt decay (core)
4 chalice of the void (core)
4 tanglewire (core)
2 trinisphere (core)
1 freyalise's winds
1 smokestack (neither this or winds are core, but they do work well with other cards)
1 wall of roots (great with winds and tanglewires)
1 scavenging ooze
1 scryb ranger (experimental, good with wires, infinite blocker tricks with boucned arbors, flies, bounces lands under winds)
1 reclamation age
1 kourser of kruphix
3 thought-knot seer (considering a 4th, core)
1 wickerborough elder
2 thragtusk (core)
2 titania, protector of argoth (core)
1 pithing needle (obvious)
1 spatial contortion (kills Teeg, Mirran and Mommy)
2 phyrexian revoker (Planeswalkers, Mommy, Stoneforge, Miracles, though not for long, may go down to 1)
2 toxic deluge (obvious)
2 engineered plague (obvious)
1 grafdigger's cage (extra bin hate, knackers my GSZ)
3 choke (obvious)
2 wheel of sun and moon (anti bin plus does not affect mine, can theoretically protect me from losing to a grindstone painter combo, avoids chalice for 1)
1 warping wail (kills mommy and thalia, counters show and tell etc. (may go to 2)
1 virtue's ruin
1 titania, protector of argoth (number 3)
1 smokestack (no 2)
This is my list.
Issues: is the Moxen/solland/GSZ balance right? I think it is, its smoother than ever, fetching basics is often right
Should I run more DRS despite chalice often being set to 1? Unsure here, need to test.
Is the correct number of TKS 4? Just 5 solands and 4 wastelands plus tower of the magistrate suggests no to 4 TKS, to me.
Can I play one or two more 1cc spells?
If you want to play with Winter Orb and Root Maze, I would up the land count. Add in Garruk Wildspeaker and 4 Ports.
I've really considered Garruck and even tested him but really I get plenty of mana. Often, I get so much mana that I don't know what to do with so I don't feel he's necessary, especially as a four drop when I can drop bigger bombs such as Primal Order.
What happens 90% of the time is that you stack a land with Wild Growths and drop one of the 8 Arbor Elves (thanks to GSZ) to crank out an obscene amount of mana. I've been doing a ton of testing and the land count is not even an issue unless I don't draw one at all. There are over 30 mana sources counting GSZ, ESG, Arbor Elves, Growths etc.. The only danger is either not drawing one at all or stacking Wild Growths on one land and putting all my eggs in one basket. Fortunately, Sinkhole and Ghost Quarter are not super popular in the current meta and Forests are Wasteland proof.
I actually have a new list if anyone wants to see it. It's not terribly different but I've cut the Sphere of Resistance package for other options and it is considerably more consistent. Also, bigger bombs.
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
Anyhow, in the new list I have cut Sphere of Resistance for a pair of Trinisphere and Umezawa's Jittes for crowd control. With testing I've gone back to running Trinisphere which should be dropped after your mana engine has been set up. It has great synergy with Root Maze and even better synergy with Winter Orb. Jitte for obvious reasons as the deck was light on crowd control and in the event you don't get your Primal Order it furthers your aggro package, it just has so many tricks. One of which is it's synergy with Wickerbough Elder, which is why I cut Reclamation Sage.
Another change is that I've added a lone Vorapede. Vorapede has been overlooked in favor of Thragtusk in other builds because of it's GGG2 casting cost, but here without running Sol Lands we actually have access to the GGG. He doesn't gain you life but he is considerably better than Thragtusk. He's bigger, harder to kill and comes back as a 6/5 rather than a 3/3. Plus he has trample and vigilance. He's easy to cast off of GSZ and is a nice alternative as a Primal Order target in the event that you happened to draw Progenitus (pitching Progenitus to Masticore is handy for shuffling him back into your deck btw).
Anyhow, here is the new list. In testing, I'm really really liking the new changes.
2x Leatherback Baloth
2x Lodestone Golem
2x Masticore
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Vorapede
1x Progenitus
4x Root Maze
4x Winter Orb
2x Trinisphere
Utility:
4x Natural Order
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Arbor Elf
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
1x Dryad Arbor
12x Forest
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
Vorapede requires it going to the graveyard, which is less common in a format where swords/terminus are premier removal.
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
Thrun is quite good too....but Thrag is better. The best one in my deck is Titania, but she is not going to do anything in yours.....(
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
Any opinions are welcome, and in fact its what i want.
14 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
//Ramp (14+4)
2 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
//Choke (14+4)
4 Root Maze
2 Tangle Wire
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Trinisphere
3 Winter Orb
3 Leatherback Baloth
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Razormane Masticore
//Tool Box (8)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Choke
2 Elephant Grass
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Razormane Masticore
2 more slots!!
Did you guys played with this deck (not literally "this") on the last few month? Got any conclusions??
Cheers!
You could also consider some non basics like tower of the magistrate if you need to up the land count or start including the magnificent Thought-knot seer, who are guys that really rock, naturally giving an out to Death and Taxes' Mirran Crusader and interacting with enemy hands. Obviously forests are essential for sprawl, I am not saying replace them.
Now is a good time financially to get wastelands, btw, they are always great.
I think the biggest issue in this type of deck is minimising duplicate effects- one winter orb is as good as two, ditto root maze. That is the deck building issue that is hard to sort without fetches and Top, Mirri's Guile or Sylvan.
On this deck, I have played my version once in the past six months at tournaments, its a great deck but I have had another project on the go, and have had to update several other lists I keep for loan purposes, and thus I have been limited to a few playtest sessions where I tried to square a few circles- Thought-Knots went a long way towards that, tinkering with mana and boards went the rest. I think you have to ask yourself if you are a Chalice Stompy disruption deck then why not play Eldrazi? To that end I tried to build mine between Maverick, Nic Fit and All in Red/Eldrazi type stompy decks, doing things that Eldraz Stompy decks don't.
The Baloth was just a dumb beater, cause i felt i needed something to capitalice a soft lock and seal the deal before the opponent recovers, but i can see what you mean.
If you got some matches with your deck and find a new cool version of it post it!!
Thx one more time!
He had not played Legacy for a long time.
He lost to Pox-prison (me) 0-2.
He beat Miracles (standard URW mentor build) 2-0
He beat Infect 2-1 (Infect was not at its blistering best- g3 finished with him having a Choke, chalice @1, Chalice @2, 3 sphere and E plague down- ouch!)
He lost to reanimator (standard issue UB). 0-2 (I think he maybe should have mulled more?)
I will look to take TKS to 4 and have already taken Decay to 3 copies.
current:
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Zuran Orb
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Ezuri's Brigade
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Progenitus
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Tireless tracker
2 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Sylvan Library
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
2 Dryad Arbor
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Tree of Tales
2 Treetop Village
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Bane of Progress
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Terastadon
1 Wickerebough Elder
2 Choke
just playing on cockatrice right now, but i am building pieces slowly for paper.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
Mono G may work, but I am struggling with green man lands- they are just too slow unless you are playing some kind of Root Maze/Orb type list. Have you considered using Thought-knot seer and increasing colorless sources using Mishra's factory in lieu of the green man lands? TKS gives hand attack and an exceptionally decent body, as well as reducing side issues like Pro green from Mother of Runes in hatebear lists. You could even include LLanowar Wastes and Lotus Petals over Spirit Guides in order to splash for B, to give that Abrupt Decay for Miracles/1cc discard board option for combo. Worth thinking about...
Titania, I can assure you, is an absolute house.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
The chalice/tanglewire engine is always decent in whatever deck it goes in. Check out MTG top 8 and do a chalice search for 2016- it is in a wide variety of decks- Dragon Stompy, Al in Red, Eldrazi of all varieties, Merfolk, Stax, MUD etc.
GSZ is always decent as t1 acceleration and toolbox a la Maverick.
Tracker is always good in Nic Fit type decks- although it works best in fetch heavy decks, it does give grind power regardless.
But whatever mono green deck you come up with will always have issues about fast combo decks, unless it itself also runs a combo- of which green has just one- Natural Order into big monster, which is a good combo, although it sucks to get countered and is not that fast. Green does not even have viable t0 effects like Leylines like white and black do (although it could run them in the board and hope, it is never that good to have otherwise uncastable cards in the deck), so it is vulnerable in those t1/t2s on the draw. Chalice @4 copies is only 40% likely to be in your hand, and there are no other anti combo cards in green outside of trinisphere, lodestone golem and sphere of resistance, and its unlikely they come down t1. All are maindeckable, but sphere of resistance effects alone won't always stop a good storm player. Root maze is a great slower, but conflicts with chalice set to 1 as it normally is.
Ultimately I tried the black splash as I needed hand interaction - which is what makes Nic Fit and Jund playable- they can take threats out without them hitting. I use 1cc discard in the board, TKS main. With 1 cc discard and chalice you have a high chance of hitting a disruptive t1 play against decks like Infect or Storm, say. Later potential conflicts between Chalice and 1cc discard need not be worried about- Chalice probably won't stay around forever and if it does you are winning. In order to facilitate the black splash I did add bayou and llanowar wastes, together with two mox diamonds, but it could be done with lotus petals (which circumvent lodestone golem) and wastes alone- a urborg, tomb might also work and have the benefit of making sol lands tap for B rather than damage.
The life issue in the deck is real, sadly, hence I use Thragtusk. Self damage is always a big part of sol lands.
It helped that I had people willing to borrow my version of the deck and play it, suggesting changes. Only recently I took advice to go to 3 1cc black removal in the board and to 4 Decay main, as well as other little tweaks suggested to me by players in playtest sessions.
Good luck with it.....
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
Mono G is always fun. Laser brains has a root maze winter orb list with Natural Order that is mono G- - it looks fun. I went to B for another reason beyond card quality- I had the cash from sales, I needed excuses to buy Bayous!
My list for reference- worth comparing to my May post to see how it has been tightened.
5 forest
2 bayou
1 llanowar wastes (for colorless over bayou 3)
2 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 wasteland
1 tower of the magistrate (for enemy equipments and as another colorless)
1 dryad arbor
2 mox diamond
1 zuran orb
4 abrupt decay
2 sylvan library
4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere
4 tanglewire
1 death rite shaman (I know it conflicts with Chalice@1, but I still get 2 GSZ)
1 wall of roots
1 scavenging ooze
1 reclamation sage
1 courser of kruphix
4 thought-knot seer
2 thragtusk
2 tiania, protector of argoth
2 choke (Euro metas are less blue, I don't play big 100 player plus events that tend towards blue decks, smaller events here tend to be fewer safe choice decks) (miracles, delver decks of all sorts)
2 thoughtseize (generic combo decks that I lack answers to eg show and tell based ones)
1 inquisition of kozilek (both 1cc discard come in with chalice against decks like infect as well as storm, high tide)
4 leyline of the void (reanimator, storm, loam decks like lands)
2 engineered plague (elves, d n t, some delver lists, maverick)
1 warping wail (d n t, show and tell decks)
1 melira, sylvok outcast (infect is quite prevalent- it makes GSZ better and gives them a critter that must be removed)
1 toxic deluge (d n t, maverick, affinity)
1 reverent silence (enchantress and other humility decks
I am considering a diabolic edict card for the board over warping wail, for reanimator- I do not see much show and tell nowadays, so wail is often only additional critter removal. I always feel I should consider putting a swamp in and running catacombs- making me less vulnerable to opposing wastelands, but, honestly the black is only there for DRS activations and abrupt decay- and the decks abrupt decay are most useful against- miracles and infect- well, neither run full sets of wastelands.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
If I were to not run them and be mono-g for Trinity/Trinichoke -the deck needs a name that sticks- then I would probably include
(a) A couple of extra useful lands to act as pseudo removal/skip past counterlocks- Maze of Ith, Manlands. That might mean me running 1 more Mox Diamond, and maybe bringing a Loam engine or Crucible + Ghost Quarter. [Crucible is a valid consideration in any list for my money, anyway]
(b) I would consider dismember in the board, and probably skew the board towards removal in general- Krosan Grip being obvious. I would combine Relic of Progenitus, Wheel of S and M and Farie Macabre as my bin hate depending on the meta.
That said, given the colorless contingent, LLanowar Wastes help avoid the colorless mana screw in my build- Mox Diamonds can't produce colorless- so I actually have a lot of time for just using them over Bayous and keeping the black splash- it is never fun being color screwed for colorless......
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!