4x Dig Through Time is an adoption from Omniscience decks. I'm not sure it's better than having some number of Intuitions. Intuition is better mid-combo because you can generally guarantee a win, whereas I've whiffed a few times with DTT mid-combo. But DTT has been a little bit better pre-combo due to its cheaper cost, and being a lot better when you're missing both pieces of the combo. I think that the better pre-combo card is the one to include, since you can always combo out for the draw, whereas if you can't combo off at all you lose.
Wouldn't Gifts Ungiven be better than Dig in this type of deck?
Could always come up with a package since your run cards that have similar effects.
Especially if you plan on running Dark Rituals.
Careful Study, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Creature
Worldgorger Dragon, Oona, (no other cards)
Animate, Necro, Dance (if you included it), Careful Study
does anyone have any ideas of a straight b/r version of the deck?
I feel blue black is better since you can run Lim-Dul's Vault and basically set up your top deck with what ever you need.
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on another note, I see a lot of lists running griselbrand in the deck, since this is a combo deck that doesn't need aggro to win it seems reasonable to run Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur since he can shut off our opponent hand. thus shutting off threats to the combo kill.
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does anyone have any ideas of a straight b/r version of the deck?
I feel blue black is better since you can run Lim-Dul's Vault and basically set up your top deck with what ever you need.
--------------------
on another note, I see a lot of lists running griselbrand in the deck, since this is a combo deck that doesn't need aggro to win it seems reasonable to run Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur since he can shut off our opponent hand. thus shutting off threats to the combo kill.
Is UB better than mono-B running spoils of the vault? I'm still not convinced a second color is needed or adds more than the cards you end up taking away. Lake of the Dead, spoils, and an extra discard spell are all pretty strong.
Instead of altar of the brood you could always try codex shredder. It digs for our wincon mid combo, grabs permission or a reanimation spell from the grave, and can mill our opponent out.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
So I double checked the order of clean up step, flashing in necromancy on jin gitaxias at opponents end step will force them To discard to 0 if unanswered. Might be a useful line of play since the deck is made up of enchantment reanimate spells.
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I'm not understanding the role of Gigapede in the one deck list posted. It's only good for discarding a card from your hand on your upkeep. The only way I can see it be of any use is if you have WGD already in your hand from the turn prior and had no discard spells to get rid of it and the turn you managed to get it into the yard, you had no WGD or Griselbrand. Wouldn't just adding another discard spell accomplish the same thing?
Intuition for oona, WGD, gigapede. They give you anything. Next upkeep you pitch card Y to get gigapede back unless they gave you gigapede. You animate dead WGD with oona in the yard/you combo out and win. Got the idea from Carsten Kotter's old esper intuition control list where the combo was unburial rites, fatty, gigapede off intuition then you can rites said fatty but this time it just enables the entire combo.
In ANY entomb deck with reanimation spells it is wrong to not run griselbrand as at least a 1 of. There will be games where you plop griselbrand into play and just win with him because he's that stupid and doesn't require any other cards to win whereas WGD requires a drownyard, read the runes, or some way of dumping oona into the yard to abuse infinite mana off dragon.
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Intuition for oona, WGD, gigapede. They give you anything. Next upkeep you pitch card Y to get gigapede back unless they gave you gigapede. You animate dead WGD with oona in the yard/you combo out and win. Got the idea from Carsten Kotter's old esper intuition control list where the combo was unburial rites, fatty, gigapede off intuition then you can rites said fatty but this time it just enables the entire combo.
In ANY entomb deck with reanimation spells it is wrong to not run griselbrand as at least a 1 of. There will be games where you plop griselbrand into play and just win with him because he's that stupid and doesn't require any other cards to win whereas WGD requires a drownyard, read the runes, or some way of dumping oona into the yard to abuse infinite mana off dragon.
Thanks. That is really cool. Whatever they do, they're pretty much screwed.
I want to stay blue and black, but adding silence type cards usually involves splashing Green or while to get Xantid Swarm / silence. Do you think gigadrowse is sufficient enough to accomplish silence liked effect in legacy?
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Well I had been charged with playing this deck again and I started with the old mono black list I remember playing. Things got derailed quite fast when I remembered that the last time I played the deck bazaar was legal. So with some tweaking I ended up with this current undefeated list:
Fairly consistent turn 2 win/draw. Still kind of want to cut some land, but the fact that the land acts as a win con can't be overlooked. Vendilion clique was main decked but proved to be not as important. Needless to say there is a lot of redundancy in this build so removal is a bigger issue then permission.
Still haven't settled on a firm sideboard plan. I have been leaning towards 3 abrupt decay and 4 pack rats as most likely guarantees. It will really come down to do I transform a little or proactively make the combo happen.
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wondering if replenish might be a possibility for the deck. in testing towards the middle of the game I often find I have dragon and the reanimate enchantments in the graveyard. a situation i could remedy if I had a way of getting enchantments back into play.
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wondering if replenish might be a possibility for the deck. in testing towards the middle of the game I often find I have dragon and the reanimate enchantments in the graveyard. a situation i could remedy if I had a way of getting enchantments back into play.
First of all, middle of the game? How do you even make it to the middle of a game with this deck? Either you go off and win in a few turns or you go infinite and force a tie.
As for needing to get enchantments back, you're running 6 to 8 in the deck. How many do you need? How many do you really expect to be in the yard?
This is not a mid game deck. Against most decks, you won't survive to mid game. Replenish is just dead draw too many times, either because you've gotten it too early or because there is nothing in the yard to bring back.
Plus, it's a 4 cmc spell. You're running a deck light in land. If you've got enough land in play to actually cast this, you're probably dead already or close to it.
Personally, I wouldn't run it but you can test it out to see if it works for you. I wouldn't run more than 1. Maybe 2 but that's it.
Haven't even test run it because Woogerworks servers seem to be down, but it's a mock up.
The problem with running it in a Dredge list is you'll never get to cast it. How often does Dredge ever get to 4 mana? And that's assuming you don't end up dumping them all in your Graveyard in the first place.
Either play Dredge or play WGD. Trying to combine the two, I can tell you before you even bother testing it, is going to produce disastrous results.
I'd call it a case of if you want to play reanimator play reanimator. If you want to play dragon, play dragon. Trying to play both waters those plans down.
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I'd call it a case of if you want to play reanimator play reanimator. If you want to play dragon, play dragon. Trying to play both waters those plans down.
this was posted some time ago before the unbanning.
in the absense of any lists that have put solid results I have no doubt first time dragon players may turn to this for inspiration, resulting in most lists being like Calebs kind of Hybrid.
Caleb runs griselbrand because its a solid angle of attack for any reamimator deck, running him with dragon give you means to draw into a combo that wins on the spot for when griselbrand beatdown fails.
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And that is the problem. Both are individually solid lines of attack but there is no reason to do both. If you reanimate a griselbrand all you need to do is protect it. Trying to dragon combo with a griselbrand already in play doesn't add to anything and only gives opportunity to be blown out. The same is true of dragon. If I already have dragon I don't need a griselbrand. Taking that to a bigger picture, game 1 are you entombing for griselbrand or dragon. That choice changes what you need to do effectively negating a portion of your deck.
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Yet griselbrand drawing you into dragon is combo, shouldn't be over looked. especially since dragon is a multi piece combo.
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I look at it this way. You have two avenues to victory instead of one. Plus, in the event of you being up against the way and about to die, where not even Griselbrand can save you, WGD gives you the chance to pull out a draw and take it to another game.
I've had many a game playing Reanimator where I was up against Ensnaring Bridge and no way to win even with Gris. WGD at least gives me a chance in those games.
If griselbrand is "drawing me into combo" why am I not winning already with a griselbrand in play?
Reanimator is, at its heart, a toolbox deck where you put the best creature you have against a given deck into play. Dragon always puts dragon into play. By playing both you are taking away the toolbox aspect of reanimator to play a different combo which needs additional pieces, which again are limited because of trying to do two different things.
Reanimator can already beat ensnaring bridge with its toolbox.
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lets just ignore griselbrand for now, were not making any progress talking about him.
there was some reasoning in the Calebs video to run Jace, the mind sculptor but I never saw it explained in any of the videos. I can only assume this was a sideboard choice for something that is more common place in the legacy meta, any suggestion or idea what that match up might be?
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To me the obvious answer is that it acts as a win con that ignores the graveyard. That said it seems strong against something like miracles.
I'll keep that in mind, I got a miracles guy in my meta. first weekly I played against him I actually found him weak to codex shredder and nephalia drownyard, in the absense of comboing. he kind of hurt himself when he put in rest in peace I exiled all of his threats via milling the slow way.
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Wouldn't Gifts Ungiven be better than Dig in this type of deck?
Could always come up with a package since your run cards that have similar effects.
Especially if you plan on running Dark Rituals.
Careful Study, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Creature
Worldgorger Dragon, Oona, (no other cards)
Animate, Necro, Dance (if you included it), Careful Study
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
I feel blue black is better since you can run Lim-Dul's Vault and basically set up your top deck with what ever you need.
--------------------
on another note, I see a lot of lists running griselbrand in the deck, since this is a combo deck that doesn't need aggro to win it seems reasonable to run Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur since he can shut off our opponent hand. thus shutting off threats to the combo kill.
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Is UB better than mono-B running spoils of the vault? I'm still not convinced a second color is needed or adds more than the cards you end up taking away. Lake of the Dead, spoils, and an extra discard spell are all pretty strong.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
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what am I missing here?
In ANY entomb deck with reanimation spells it is wrong to not run griselbrand as at least a 1 of. There will be games where you plop griselbrand into play and just win with him because he's that stupid and doesn't require any other cards to win whereas WGD requires a drownyard, read the runes, or some way of dumping oona into the yard to abuse infinite mana off dragon.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Thanks. That is really cool. Whatever they do, they're pretty much screwed.
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1 oona, Queen of the fae
1 snapcaster mage
4 animate dead
3 dance of the dead
2 necromancy
4 entomb
4 careful study
3 read the runes
2 intuition
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
2 pact of negation
1 misdirection
4 underground sea
4 gemstone mine
4 polluted delta
4 nephalia drownyard
2 piranha marsh
Fairly consistent turn 2 win/draw. Still kind of want to cut some land, but the fact that the land acts as a win con can't be overlooked. Vendilion clique was main decked but proved to be not as important. Needless to say there is a lot of redundancy in this build so removal is a bigger issue then permission.
Still haven't settled on a firm sideboard plan. I have been leaning towards 3 abrupt decay and 4 pack rats as most likely guarantees. It will really come down to do I transform a little or proactively make the combo happen.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
You can use commune with the gods and commune with nature to dig 5 deep, or Library dig, or search for lands. And if worse comes to worse, Goyf bash.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
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First of all, middle of the game? How do you even make it to the middle of a game with this deck? Either you go off and win in a few turns or you go infinite and force a tie.
As for needing to get enchantments back, you're running 6 to 8 in the deck. How many do you need? How many do you really expect to be in the yard?
This is not a mid game deck. Against most decks, you won't survive to mid game. Replenish is just dead draw too many times, either because you've gotten it too early or because there is nothing in the yard to bring back.
Plus, it's a 4 cmc spell. You're running a deck light in land. If you've got enough land in play to actually cast this, you're probably dead already or close to it.
Personally, I wouldn't run it but you can test it out to see if it works for you. I wouldn't run more than 1. Maybe 2 but that's it.
Just don't like the card in this deck at all.
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Chronic Flooding
4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
4 Scrubland
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Flooded Strand
4 Force of Will
3 Worldgorger Dragon
4 Animate Dead
3 Replenish
3 Misdirection
3 Laboratory Maniac
2 Necromancy
4 Brainstorm
3 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Tormod's Crypt
Haven't even test run it because Woogerworks servers seem to be down, but it's a mock up.
The problem with running it in a Dredge list is you'll never get to cast it. How often does Dredge ever get to 4 mana? And that's assuming you don't end up dumping them all in your Graveyard in the first place.
Either play Dredge or play WGD. Trying to combine the two, I can tell you before you even bother testing it, is going to produce disastrous results.
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Ashen Rider
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
2 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will
4 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Scholar of Athreos
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Pithing Needle
1 Massacre
2 Show and Tell
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Dark Ritual
Zur, the Enchanter
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
this was posted some time ago before the unbanning.
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/the-banned-series-worldgorger-dragon-and-black-vise/
in the absense of any lists that have put solid results I have no doubt first time dragon players may turn to this for inspiration, resulting in most lists being like Calebs kind of Hybrid.
Caleb runs griselbrand because its a solid angle of attack for any reamimator deck, running him with dragon give you means to draw into a combo that wins on the spot for when griselbrand beatdown fails.
@jvmauck
cut the reanimate and add dance of the dead or necromancy.
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-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
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I've had many a game playing Reanimator where I was up against Ensnaring Bridge and no way to win even with Gris. WGD at least gives me a chance in those games.
Reanimator is, at its heart, a toolbox deck where you put the best creature you have against a given deck into play. Dragon always puts dragon into play. By playing both you are taking away the toolbox aspect of reanimator to play a different combo which needs additional pieces, which again are limited because of trying to do two different things.
Reanimator can already beat ensnaring bridge with its toolbox.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
there was some reasoning in the Calebs video to run Jace, the mind sculptor but I never saw it explained in any of the videos. I can only assume this was a sideboard choice for something that is more common place in the legacy meta, any suggestion or idea what that match up might be?
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-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I'll keep that in mind, I got a miracles guy in my meta. first weekly I played against him I actually found him weak to codex shredder and nephalia drownyard, in the absense of comboing. he kind of hurt himself when he put in rest in peace I exiled all of his threats via milling the slow way.
other card up for discussion Dystopia good for killing rest in peace/Leyline of sanctity or not, or killing something else I'm not mentioning?
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