The idea is simple, accelerate fast, rip their hands and start grinding out value out of the zombies, many times uncountarable, the deck has done very nice against some decks, usually combo decks are a good matchup, the deck has done pretty well against Infect, burn, DnT and Reanimator. It usually gets very good in the grinding games because of the card advantage we can get, but it still lacks something for the deck to really shine.
These are the changes that I'm trying out to see if the deck gests better.
- I'm inclined to add more lands, but we have so much acceleration that more lands can be redundant, so I'm unsure the actual land count that would be optimal for the deck, since we have many basics so we don't have to worry about opposing wastelands.
- trade Cryptbreaker for some other zombie, it has done some extremely value matches, but I'm not sure 4-of is the best
- Trade culling the weak for Chrome Moxes, culling is great with the cat, and also a huge tempo play, but sometimes it gets stuck in the hand, when it works its awesome, when it doesn't we usually would prefer something else.
Some notes about tests with the deck:
- Diregraf Colossus is a beast!, really when it gets combined with Cryptbreaker the value is absurd, sometimes drawing 2 cards a turn, using disruption to keep opponent under control, to make a huge swing on the following turns.
- Black Cat is awesome with Cabal Therapy, when both are on the starting hand, we can have a huge turn of ripping their hands of. It was not a single game that I Dark Ritual into Cabal Therapy and the cat, to get 3-4 cards out of their hands, on the late game it still brings a lot of value.
The deck has been running pretty smooth, I think this deck is on the level of those tier 3 decks like, Affinity, All Spells, Pox... So I need help to make this deck a little more consistent, and ideas of other cards I can put in, trying not to decrease the zombie count too much because of Grave Defiler.
One of my very most favorite things to in Magic, possibly more than actually playing the game, is brewing legacy decks. I like this list, it looks an lot like my ROTLD Combo Zombies brew. I haven't had time to fully update it as I've been working on other projects but it is extremely competetive. Check it out here. I think it will give you some ideas.
Three things I see with your build. Why no Gravecrawler? The deck doesn't appear to combo out so why so much ramp? Why not run recurable sac outlets such as Carrion Feeder?
Usually because I can convert the mana acceleration back into cards with Crypt, Diregraf and Grave Defiler, I tried without them and the deck becomes so slow, so I don't know, the deck can recover its hand pretty quickly, thats why I tried this kind of strategy xD.
Yeah the removal part is kind of bad, but I don't know if its the best direction so I'm trying to brew something out here, I really really wanted some zombies that could remove other creatures, but the ones that does are so bad...
Well yeah Gravecrawler is good, but I don't know if this deck different from yours I can get close to that much value, if I pack in both Gravecrawler and Carrion Feeder, then I think they are good complements of each other.
Thanks friend! I will try some suggestions to see if it gets better, in legacy its hard to brew some deck that can be competitive and be totally different from the ones that are out there xD.
I was play testing this and it feels rather awkward on turn 2-3 without a culling. T1 you can do some disruption and throw cards out but I feel like you end up with card disadvantage due to your mana acceleration cards like lotus petal and dark ritual. Chrome mox feels immensely worse than lotus peteal or ritual so I think cut those two for sure. I think those cards are necessary but I think some of your higher expense cards like undead warchief really clog up the system. I also find I have a hard time discarding stuff for a 2/2 zombie with cryptbreaker. I think Gravecrawler is a must in your build, as you can make your deck a toolbox of things to do with recurable creatures that allow you to control your opponent. Gravecrawler could be discarded with crypbreaker, sacrificed to culling for infinite mana with a zombie out, and act as some pressure. The changes I would make would be
-2 Dark ritual
+2 culling the week
Culling feels like you lose out less on card advantage and feels more long term
-4 Undead warchief (sorry too clunky)
+4 Gravecrawler
Lowers CMC of deck and offers a more resilient approach
-2 Chrome mox
+2 Murderous cut
Gives you an unconditial removal spell, chrome mox feels slow and puts you at a disadvantage.
-4 Grave Defiler
+4 Relentless dead
Grave defiler is good but costs too much for my liking. Dead offers card advantage, a bigger body, and infinite combo with culling.
Really it comes down to your prefences as it's your deck, don't feel pressured to make any of these changes. I just wanted to offer my opinion. Anyway I like your deck idea and I wish you luck!
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
If you are going to go on the Stompy plan, why not play things like the Sol lands and Chalice to really cement the idea? Black has always struggled with this kind of deck anyways, and multiple versions with different tribal focuses (most recently Demon Stompy) haven't really been successful outside of small local tournaments.
If you can make it work I'm listening.
Props for going all out with something like
8 Sol Lands
4 Cavern
8 Black sources
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Your favorite lock piece (3Sphere, even Nether avoid)
This is a deck I have been brewing, I really love to brew decks, and this is probably one of them that I had most success with.
3x Cavern of Souls
11x Swamp
4x Wasteland
Creatures
4x Black Cat
4x Cryptbreaker
4x Diregraf Colossus
4x Undead Warchief
4x Grave Defiler
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Thoughtseize
Acceleration
2x Chrome Mox
2x Culling the Weak
4x Dark Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
Answers
2x Fatal Push
3x Pithing Needle
1x Fatal Push
2x Chalice of the Void
3x Withered Wretch
2x Toxic Deluge
2x Leyline of the Void
The idea is simple, accelerate fast, rip their hands and start grinding out value out of the zombies, many times uncountarable, the deck has done very nice against some decks, usually combo decks are a good matchup, the deck has done pretty well against Infect, burn, DnT and Reanimator. It usually gets very good in the grinding games because of the card advantage we can get, but it still lacks something for the deck to really shine.
These are the changes that I'm trying out to see if the deck gests better.
- I'm inclined to add more lands, but we have so much acceleration that more lands can be redundant, so I'm unsure the actual land count that would be optimal for the deck, since we have many basics so we don't have to worry about opposing wastelands.
- trade Cryptbreaker for some other zombie, it has done some extremely value matches, but I'm not sure 4-of is the best
- Trade culling the weak for Chrome Moxes, culling is great with the cat, and also a huge tempo play, but sometimes it gets stuck in the hand, when it works its awesome, when it doesn't we usually would prefer something else.
Some notes about tests with the deck:
- Diregraf Colossus is a beast!, really when it gets combined with Cryptbreaker the value is absurd, sometimes drawing 2 cards a turn, using disruption to keep opponent under control, to make a huge swing on the following turns.
- Black Cat is awesome with Cabal Therapy, when both are on the starting hand, we can have a huge turn of ripping their hands of. It was not a single game that I Dark Ritual into Cabal Therapy and the cat, to get 3-4 cards out of their hands, on the late game it still brings a lot of value.
The deck has been running pretty smooth, I think this deck is on the level of those tier 3 decks like, Affinity, All Spells, Pox... So I need help to make this deck a little more consistent, and ideas of other cards I can put in, trying not to decrease the zombie count too much because of Grave Defiler.
Three things I see with your build. Why no Gravecrawler? The deck doesn't appear to combo out so why so much ramp? Why not run recurable sac outlets such as Carrion Feeder?
EDIT: 30 mana sources only two removal slots.
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
Yeah the removal part is kind of bad, but I don't know if its the best direction so I'm trying to brew something out here, I really really wanted some zombies that could remove other creatures, but the ones that does are so bad...
Well yeah Gravecrawler is good, but I don't know if this deck different from yours I can get close to that much value, if I pack in both Gravecrawler and Carrion Feeder, then I think they are good complements of each other.
Thanks friend! I will try some suggestions to see if it gets better, in legacy its hard to brew some deck that can be competitive and be totally different from the ones that are out there xD.
-2 Dark ritual
+2 culling the week
Culling feels like you lose out less on card advantage and feels more long term
-4 Undead warchief (sorry too clunky)
+4 Gravecrawler
Lowers CMC of deck and offers a more resilient approach
-2 Chrome mox
+2 Murderous cut
Gives you an unconditial removal spell, chrome mox feels slow and puts you at a disadvantage.
-4 Grave Defiler
+4 Relentless dead
Grave defiler is good but costs too much for my liking. Dead offers card advantage, a bigger body, and infinite combo with culling.
Really it comes down to your prefences as it's your deck, don't feel pressured to make any of these changes. I just wanted to offer my opinion. Anyway I like your deck idea and I wish you luck!
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
If you can make it work I'm listening.
Props for going all out with something like
8 Sol Lands
4 Cavern
8 Black sources
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Your favorite lock piece (3Sphere, even Nether avoid)
Etc..
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)