I've been considering shelving reanimator and picking up this deck, your list is exactly how I would build it with the exception of some minor tweaks. How do you find the spell snares? Why not flusterstorm, or spell pierce mainboard? I like the Massacre Wurm, tried it in reanimator too, how has it performed in this deck?
Also: the 2/2 split of tomb/trader, how has this been working? I own 4 tombs and I feel they are better but I don't have experience to properly evaluate the differences.
They are a second Force of Will. This deck cares about mana unlike High Tide so Flusterstorm isn't really an option. It can't win the game on the same turn you go off so Pact of Negation is also not an option.
Perhaps Defense Grid is a better option but I like how Misdirection can troll Hymn to Tourach.
Well that's my list that i played Saturday and i will admit that some of the regular that i play with at my local game store don't like the deck lol and would rather play against a different combo deck than mine ha ha!
I played it once at my local gaming store and im the only person with the deck and people do hate it. The deck is so robust and consistent. A lot of decks can't deal with it. They literally have no game against these decks.
Maverick can sorta win but the matchup is still loopsided. Their absolute best play if hope you don't have the combo and somehow land a Thalia. When I played against Maverick I only forced Thalia or maybe Gaddock Teeg. Not that Teeg stops Show and Tell but mainly because Force of Will has nowhere to go otherwise. At any rate. I heard turn 2 Progenitus is good against Maverick. I remember playing Blight Steel on turn 3 against a Maverick guy. He instantly poker faces as he probably sided out all his plows for game 2.
Storm decks can't possible win through 12 maindeck counterspells and Leyline out of the board.
Wow I like that Blightsteel move for game 2. I'm currently running 4 emrakul and 3 progenitus. I don't run Misdirection but 3 Jaces. I just sleeved up te deck haven't run it yet tournament. The only thing I'm worried about is maverick and Bant with their knights searching for karakas and maze vs emrakul
Main deck blood moon seems great or a couple Blightsteels.
Wow I like that Blightsteel move for game 2. I'm currently running 4 emrakul and 3 progenitus. I don't run Misdirection but 3 Jaces. I just sleeved up te deck haven't run it yet tournament. The only thing I'm worried about is maverick and Bant with their knights searching for karakas and maze vs emrakul
Main deck blood moon seems great or a couple Blightsteels.
I think Emrakul laughs pretty hard at Maze of Ith, no? But Knight fetching up Karakas does seem probematic for the Emrakul plan, however. Replacing them with Blightsteels out of the side seems good.
Problem with Blightsteel in the main deck I think is that it's not a great thing to Sneak Attack with, since they can chump block it with a 2-toughness guy and live, and then you need to find another one. And sneaking a Progenitus in afterward wouldn't help on the poison front.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
I think Emrakul laughs pretty hard at Maze of Ith, no? But Knight fetching up Karakas does seem probematic for the Emrakul plan, however. Replacing them with Blightsteels out of the side seems good.
Problem with Blightsteel in the main deck I think is that it's not a great thing to Sneak Attack with, since they can chump block it with a 2-toughness guy and live, and then you need to find another one. And sneaking a Progenitus in afterward wouldn't help on the poison front.
I just started testing this deck and in a handful of games against Maverick, since they know that Karakas is the only way to prevent their board from being decimated by Emrakul, they have to play around it heavily (or outright race you with exalted Thrun or goyf or something). If they stall, you now have time to go find a Massacre Wurm/Bloodfire Colossus or S&T into Progenitus.
I agree about the Blightsteels - they are great coming out of the sideboard, but I've had some games where it got chumped and the opponent sat on 9 poison while smashing me in the face.
Oh yea they have to sac permanents when emrakul attacks even though they can maze of ith it. What are the cards we have to worry about when we sneak in emrakul?
Jace, knight of the reliquary?
Does a resolved Teeg shut down show and tell and sneak attack?
Does a resolved Teeg shut down show and tell and sneak attack?
Teeg's effect doesn't hit Show and Tell, but it does stop you from casting Sneak Attack. If you already have one in play it won't matter. And you can always put Sneak Attack into play using a Show and Tell if you don't have a fatty to drop in yet.
I think Griselbrand can be quite effective with sneak in play, but our creatures are legends.
Edit: My bad, didnt see the post before me. There is just so much advantage with drawing 7 cards, inc emergency drawing 7 or 14 cards for a force of will.
I suspect Griselbrand will be a harder-hitting Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur without the hand-shredding if timed properly (i.e. activate Sneak Attack at the end of your opponent's turn). On the other hand, this deck is slow enough that a fair few decks have dumped their hands and have bloated creatures on the table if you choose to cheat in Jin-G, while Griselbrand can dodge them somewhat and potentially fix the Burn match-up with Lifelink.
...Okay, Griselbrand can potentially draw 14 cards, but that's a lot of life loss (especially if Griselbrand can't connect), and you're not so likely to win the turn you cheat him in.
Unfortunately, you're right about the Karakas problem, and I'm not entirely sure whether jamming in Stifles to protect the legends is worth it, especially since Progenitus still dodges everything with a target.
The trouble with dudes with lifelink is that they aren't as good with Show and Tell and Sneak Attack as Emrakul or Progenitus. Emrakul flies and razes boards, and Progenitus is unblockable and dodges Karakas, opposing Jace TMS, and more. Crucially, both are 2HKOs. About the only lifelink dude I'd consider for this deck is Griselbrand, as he flies (relevant when blocking Delver in a UR Delver race) and his Draw 7+ basically ensures you will kill your opponent with the remaining fatties.
(In preliminary testing, I once Sneak Attacked Emrakul and Griselbrand on the same turn. They had to Karakas Emrakul. I connected with Griselbrand, Drew 7, and Sneak Attacked Emrakul and Progenitus next turn. They hit themselves enough with fetchlands that Progenitus killed them.)
Fling requires you already needing Show and Tell and the creature. At that point, you should already be winning, why add a dead draw to a deck that really needs its draw to be relevant?
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If for some reason we have to kill the creature, we can sac it in response. If we attack with prog for 10 dmg, we can sac to finish off. Works with emrakul as well.
It works with both show and tell and sneak attack.
I
...Okay, Griselbrand can potentially draw 14 cards, but that's a lot of life loss (especially if Griselbrand can't connect), and you're not so likely to win the turn you cheat him in.
Unfortunately, you're right about the Karakas problem, and I'm not entirely sure whether jamming in Stifles to protect the legends is worth it, especially since Progenitus still dodges everything with a target.
so you just have to try a show and tell version that have a Plan B that could kill in the turn, i don't think Sneak show should be the kind of deck for him.
As far as i am concerned i'm trying a version show and tell with leyline of the void and helm of obedience, with 4x Dark ritual and 4x lotus petal so i could drop him in and then if required win in the turn.
But if you play sneak show most of time Sneak show plays at least 25 blue spell(with progenitus.), and most of the time you're nearly relieved when you have 2 Progenitus and you can pitch one to FoW, but with griselbrand you end up with 1 or 2 completly useless.
Also: the 2/2 split of tomb/trader, how has this been working? I own 4 tombs and I feel they are better but I don't have experience to properly evaluate the differences.
Perhaps Defense Grid is a better option but I like how Misdirection can troll Hymn to Tourach.
I played it once at my local gaming store and im the only person with the deck and people do hate it. The deck is so robust and consistent. A lot of decks can't deal with it. They literally have no game against these decks.
Maverick can sorta win but the matchup is still loopsided. Their absolute best play if hope you don't have the combo and somehow land a Thalia. When I played against Maverick I only forced Thalia or maybe Gaddock Teeg. Not that Teeg stops Show and Tell but mainly because Force of Will has nowhere to go otherwise. At any rate. I heard turn 2 Progenitus is good against Maverick. I remember playing Blight Steel on turn 3 against a Maverick guy. He instantly poker faces as he probably sided out all his plows for game 2.
Storm decks can't possible win through 12 maindeck counterspells and Leyline out of the board.
Main deck blood moon seems great or a couple Blightsteels.
I think Emrakul laughs pretty hard at Maze of Ith, no? But Knight fetching up Karakas does seem probematic for the Emrakul plan, however. Replacing them with Blightsteels out of the side seems good.
Problem with Blightsteel in the main deck I think is that it's not a great thing to Sneak Attack with, since they can chump block it with a 2-toughness guy and live, and then you need to find another one. And sneaking a Progenitus in afterward wouldn't help on the poison front.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
I just started testing this deck and in a handful of games against Maverick, since they know that Karakas is the only way to prevent their board from being decimated by Emrakul, they have to play around it heavily (or outright race you with exalted Thrun or goyf or something). If they stall, you now have time to go find a Massacre Wurm/Bloodfire Colossus or S&T into Progenitus.
I agree about the Blightsteels - they are great coming out of the sideboard, but I've had some games where it got chumped and the opponent sat on 9 poison while smashing me in the face.
Jace, knight of the reliquary?
Does a resolved Teeg shut down show and tell and sneak attack?
Teeg's effect doesn't hit Show and Tell, but it does stop you from casting Sneak Attack. If you already have one in play it won't matter. And you can always put Sneak Attack into play using a Show and Tell if you don't have a fatty to drop in yet.
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Temporal-Mastery-Avacyn-Restored-Spoiler-216x302.jpg
Griselbrand?
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Griselbrand-Avacyn-Restored-Spoiler.jpg
I think Griselbrand can be quite effective with sneak in play, but our creatures are legends.
Edit: My bad, didnt see the post before me. There is just so much advantage with drawing 7 cards, inc emergency drawing 7 or 14 cards for a force of will.
...Okay, Griselbrand can potentially draw 14 cards, but that's a lot of life loss (especially if Griselbrand can't connect), and you're not so likely to win the turn you cheat him in.
Unfortunately, you're right about the Karakas problem, and I'm not entirely sure whether jamming in Stifles to protect the legends is worth it, especially since Progenitus still dodges everything with a target.
Is their a right number for intuition? Currently running 2.
Im currently testing without intuition in favour of jace.
(In preliminary testing, I once Sneak Attacked Emrakul and Griselbrand on the same turn. They had to Karakas Emrakul. I connected with Griselbrand, Drew 7, and Sneak Attacked Emrakul and Progenitus next turn. They hit themselves enough with fetchlands that Progenitus killed them.)
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It works with both show and tell and sneak attack.
so you just have to try a show and tell version that have a Plan B that could kill in the turn, i don't think Sneak show should be the kind of deck for him.
As far as i am concerned i'm trying a version show and tell with leyline of the void and helm of obedience, with 4x Dark ritual and 4x lotus petal so i could drop him in and then if required win in the turn.
But if you play sneak show most of time Sneak show plays at least 25 blue spell(with progenitus.), and most of the time you're nearly relieved when you have 2 Progenitus and you can pitch one to FoW, but with griselbrand you end up with 1 or 2 completly useless.
What about as a sideboard vs burn?
If you played Diamond Valley, you are accepting that you would play your entire combo and have a fatty left on the board.
If it as Emrakul, he should be turned sideways and so you can win the game in response to burn spells.
If it was Progenitus, then why not just sideboard a card that wasn't progenitus.