I have nothing against the Welder builds, I guess its just the type of deck you prefer playing. I've been playing Stax for over 3 years, so I have a love for the Trinisphere's and Chalice of the voids. As for your comment about locks, Its not so much as getting a lock on them, but more so to just slow them down and get fatties out protected.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Right now on Cockatrice, I have been doing fine with Tangle Wire.
In real life however, since I am still debating on purchasing a set of Tangle Wires, I have been testing with Spellskite. Spellskite has been good.
Tangle Wire is great against Mid-range, control and in a way combo. Basically, decks that cannot spam the board.
Spellskite on the other hand is great against aggro and aggro-control.
Both are great in protecting your 'combo pieces'.
I haven't been testing the card draw spells as much as I have been testing the two artifacts. Most of my reasoning on why to play them is based on theorycrafting.
If I do end up with Spellskite or draw spells in that testing slot, I might change my land base with the following:
I might remove Mox Opal for additional lands or add a fourth Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond actually helps more explosive starts where as Mox Opal is a counterable late game land drop that doesn't destroy City of Traitors and is immuned to Wasteland. Still debating and I'll see as I continue on testing.
This is the list I am trying right now. Why are you running forbidden alchemy over impulse? just to get artifacts in the graveyard? The choice between Spellskite and Tangle Wire is a meta decision. Like you said, Spellskite is good against aggro and Tangle Wire is good against control, just whichever you have more of in your meta is what your decision should be based on. Though I do have to say I run Welder and Tangle Wire in my RW Stax list and it is SO much fun welding and we-welding tangle wires into play
As for Mox Diamond, I find myself liking it less and less. Maybe its because I'm playing a more control heavy version of the deck and the matches are a little slower, but I don't feel like I need to be AS explosive just because I know 1 fatty will win me the game.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
I would like to build MUD but I am missing the Moxen. Are they absolutely necessary?
Not at all, if you have everything else you should be fine. Just run lands in their place. You lose a little bit of your speed, so I might suggest the more prison like version that I am running, but other than that it shouldn't hurt you. The only thing I can think of is that you are losing colored mana sources for whatever color you are splashing like red for Goblin Welder or blue for Thoughtcast, so you may want to find a way of putting more color sources in, or just go the colorless route and run Thran Dynamo and Voltaic Key.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
Scarecrone is too slow for legacy play. He's fun in modern and was in standard, but just doesn't do enough in the faster paced games of legacy.
Spellskite is awesome if your meta is full of Quasali Pridemage and Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile. Not running Spellskite OR Chalice of the Void really makes you fragile, one well timed kill spell on a metal worker or fatty can really ruin your day. I would not run Chalice because of all of your 1 cost spells, so Spellskite may be needed, this is of course, only if your meta demands it.
I would drop a Sundering Titan, as 1 is usually all that is needed. Also, since grim monolith AND thran dynamo work awesome with voltaic key, I might put that up to 4. Mindslaver isn't as good as I would like it to be mainboard unless you have Academy ruins. I would throw it side-board, Maybe drop it for a duplicant? These are all just small things though, It looks like a solid list.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
idk, I wasn't sold on crucible, it helps with forgemaster, buried ruins, and wasteland, but I didn't like them that much. I'm not saying your wrong, they just weren't for me.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
I would run additional Phyrexian Metamorphs. One of the most backbreaking plays you can make is to have multiple Lodestone Golems on the field. Metamorphs help.
I'm considering Spellskite and Scarecrone. I'm not sure of the likelihood, but Scarecrone + Mindslaver/Spine/Sundering Titan seems like a lot of fun.
I playtested extensively with both. Spellskites are great against fast aggro and good in protecting your combo pieces. Though I would recommend a means to have a blue source for both Metamorphs and Spellskites. I suggest cutting Buried Ruin for Seat of the Synods and one or two Academy Ruins.
As for Scarecrone, its only good if you have a Stax-like build but even then, it's not so great. Not to mention that you cannot recur both Spines and Slavers with Scarecrone because they're not creatures.
If you really want to run them however, I would suggest running them in multiples as they're great in multiples. They can provide a pseudo-card draw engine.
Also, that strategy is only good with Goblin Welders as there are no additional costs in recurring the artifacts that you mentioned.
I would drop a Sundering Titan, as 1 is usually all that is needed. Also, since grim monolith AND thran dynamo work awesome with voltaic key, I might put that up to 4. Mindslaver isn't as good as I would like it to be mainboard unless you have Academy ruins. I would throw it side-board, Maybe drop it for a duplicant? These are all just small things though, It looks like a solid list.
I agree with both your Mindslaver and Duplicant comment. Duplicant is so good in a field filled with Goyf, KotR and other cheated in fatties.
Not necessarily. I find in my testing that if you can create a softlock in the first two turns (such as a turn 1 Lodestone Golem) or have an early superior board state (such as an early Wurmcoil Engine with back up Spellskite or Goblin Welder), you lands getting wasted isn't an issue.
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I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
What would you guys recommend for a Chalice list without Moxen? It means I can replace Spellskite, but does that mean I'll need to take out Key and Dynamo? This is purely for budget reasons.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
You almost certainly cannot run chalice and key together. Chalice will be at 1 90% of the time, and that means that keys will be dead draws. Forgemaster is a deck that RELIES HEAVILY on the top deck, we have almost no hand manipulation or draws, so ANY dead draws are just horrible. you are certainly welcome to try it but I did run this for a little bit and it wasn't relevent every game, but when it was it was really annoying and most of the time game changing.
I would take out the keys and probably the Dynamo and just rely on lands. Maybe add trinisphere to slow the opponent down that much more. It is much better (in my opinion) to just go by lands drops, grim monolith and Metalworker rather than risk having dead draws.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
Perhaps Tangle Wires and Metamorphs? I don't know about running a full set of Gambles, I was thinking three or two. I was thinking T1 Gamble into Welder, hoping you don't hit Welder. Ironic how that's supposed to help consistency. But say you hit something else then that's huge. Blightsteel might need to come out. I don't have Spellskites in the list, but they'll have to go in. I'll find space and post a list soon?
Obviously, this is currently all talk. Needs testing.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
As for my testing slots, I've been testing Spellskites and actually been happy with it. I may change it with Tangle Wire depending on the meta (a control/combo meta).
I like the turn one Gamble play. It is a gamble but it does increase the explosiveness of the deck.
I'm actually contemplating on testing it.
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I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
The biggest weakness of the deck is that it's fairly easy to hate. Null rod and steel sabotage have both been used to great effect against me. However, not that many people pack hate for mud. They tend to be more worried about dredge, which in the hands of a skilled pilot, can be a difficult fight. The other downside to the deck is that sometimes opening hand plays of ancient tomb into grim monolith into voltaic key into lodestone golem etc just flat out get forced and the deck has to recover a large amount of lost tempo to it. Strong control type builds can give this deck a fight, but fortunatly the deck makes sooo much mana it easily plays around daze. It is an absolute blast to play though and some of my opening hands have prompted immediete scoops from an opponent who has yet to play their first land. I'd also suggest staff of domination in the red version. Easy to win on the spot if you have a metalworker out.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
@Gamble:
Tested it and I think it's not needed. Alright, if you do manage to get a turn 1 Gamble for Goblin Welder, not only you're risking getting Welder discarded, if you are successful with your Gamble, you can only get Welder online by turn 3. At that point you can still get a robot online and possibly attacking at that point. I could be wrong. A couple games on Cockatrice can't prove this but I believer my reasons are rational.
@the deck's problems:
Yes the deck is inconsistent if you don't know how to mulligan. Practicing your mulligans help.
Sure Energy Flux will be a ***** but you better win/softlock the board by turn 4 before it ever gets online.
I promise you, if you practice piloting the deck, you won't have a problem with it. Keep in mind, you are not a control deck trying to lock down the board (though you can try to create a SOFTlock to make way for your robot), you are a combo deck trying to get a winning board by turn 2.
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Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Mixed feelings about Gamble as well. Not too good against Thoughseize. Even if the Welder is searched for and resolved, with the limited R sources it's hard to Gamble > Welder in the same turn. Although a Gamble in your favor is game-changing, I'm wondering if it's just a win-more. (not a single Gamble was out of my favor, i.e. did not discard my Welder, I am biased)
I never sideboard at all (am I doing it right?). Are there some matchups where it just isn't necessary?
-I played a lot of Junk decks on Cockatrice today. Chalice does not help, I feel like it needs more Spellskite/Greaves. Stoneforge and Bobs are terrifying.
-Only played against one Fish player, quite miserable! It was only one round though. Any tips for that matchup in general?
I hate mulling into oblivion. People on Cockatrice are nice and let me draw extra. I hope it's just the unrealistic interface shuffling?
I will report as much as I can! But for now it's homework time.
------------------------
I'm quite fond of Steel Hellkite. It really wrecks aggro, and can sometimes help blow up LED/Petals or Bobs against a combo deck. I'm currently running three.
Chalice in the Welder list isn't working for me, I think I'll be trying Thorn of Amethyst. I hate having Welder be a dead draw.
Not sure how helpful Trinisphere is yet.
How does this deck stop Back to Basics? I hate seeing that card resolve. It's not helpful when the blue deck you're playing against one-for-ones via counters.
Stoneforge decks are rough.
Still messing around with 3x Gamble. I still like it, but I could just be emotionally attached.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
Usually against aggro, I don't side anything. Maybe CotV against Zoo. Yes, Vial is a pain but your aim is to win before Vial becomes very useful.
Against Junk decks (if your playing on Cockatrice, you're probably also facing Nic Fit), I usually side in Thorn of Amethyst and sometimes CotV. Thorn followed by a second Thorn/Losestone Golem/Metamorph can be devastating to them (or to a lot of decks). CotV usually stops Thoughtsiezes and StPs.
Against Stephanies and Bobs, you usually want to have an active beater by turn 2 and try to force a block. That or just try to race them before they become active. The problem with this strategy is it's either a real easy task or a tall order. Once again, it's mulligan dependent. Though you should have enough tools to achieve this. Revokers can somehow stop Stephanies
Against Fish (assuming Merfolk) it's a hit or miss. Sometimes they just get a good hand with multiple FoWs to stop your early game plans. Sometimes, they keep a hand full of creatures and you just can them like a bunch of tuna and sardines. Postboard, I usually bring in my secret weapon against them.
Steel Hellkite is always a great Forgemaster target. I still wonder why people cut them. Against decks with a set converted mana costs such as Merfolk, it's awesome. A recurable Deed when it connects is backbreaking to the opponent.
I would never run CotV with Welder. Usually when I side in CotV, I side out Welders. Besides, Welders are supposed to be for the 'late game' when tricks actually become useful and when you need to recur your robots/tools.
Never really had a good experience with 3sphere. Thorns/CotV at one usually does the job better and it comes a turn earlier.
I usually try to beat Back to Basics/Energy Flux/Null Rod by having a superior board advantage before it lands. While Null Rod can land turns earlier than the enchantments, it's actually the easiest hate to fight around as most of your lands are not artifacts. Most of your robot beaters don't really have an activated ability and Welder isn't an artifact. Just to be sure, always have that miser basic land. Besides you'll never know when you're going to encounter that PtE.
Thorns postboard can slow those pesky enchantments even more.
Hopefully that helps.
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Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Even with Summoning Trap, blue decks are still really scary to play against. They either have a ton of counters or run white and Swords all my Metalworkers/Welders.
Myr Battlesphere seems really good. It won me plenty of games today...
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
I guess thats the reason why I've been doing it wrong.
As for my post MM-ban list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Great Furnace
3 Rishadan Port
3 Wasteland
1 Mountain
Creatures:
4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Duplicant
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
4 Grim Monolith
3 Lightning Greaves
3 Mox Diamond
3 Voltaic Key
2 Mox Opal
3 Testing slots
For the Testing slots, I've been testing with Tangle Wire, Spellskite and Forbidden Alchemy/TfK.
Right now on Cockatrice, I have been doing fine with Tangle Wire.
In real life however, since I am still debating on purchasing a set of Tangle Wires, I have been testing with Spellskite. Spellskite has been good.
Tangle Wire is great against Mid-range, control and in a way combo. Basically, decks that cannot spam the board.
Spellskite on the other hand is great against aggro and aggro-control.
Both are great in protecting your 'combo pieces'.
I haven't been testing the card draw spells as much as I have been testing the two artifacts. Most of my reasoning on why to play them is based on theorycrafting.
If I do end up with Spellskite or draw spells in that testing slot, I might change my land base with the following:
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
3 Great Furnace
2 Shivan Reef
1 Mountain
I picked Shivan Reef over Volcanic Island because it doesn't have a land type and can survive under a 'flickering' Sundering Titan.
As for the rest of the mana-base:
4 Metalworker
3 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal
I might remove Mox Opal for additional lands or add a fourth Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond actually helps more explosive starts where as Mox Opal is a counterable late game land drop that doesn't destroy City of Traitors and is immuned to Wasteland. Still debating and I'll see as I continue on testing.
How does your list look like MoT_Pestilence?
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Academy Ruins
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Metalworker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Duplicant
4 Spellskite
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal
1 Staff of Domination
4 Thoughtcast
This is the list I am trying right now. Why are you running forbidden alchemy over impulse? just to get artifacts in the graveyard? The choice between Spellskite and Tangle Wire is a meta decision. Like you said, Spellskite is good against aggro and Tangle Wire is good against control, just whichever you have more of in your meta is what your decision should be based on. Though I do have to say I run Welder and Tangle Wire in my RW Stax list and it is SO much fun welding and we-welding tangle wires into play
As for Mox Diamond, I find myself liking it less and less. Maybe its because I'm playing a more control heavy version of the deck and the matches are a little slower, but I don't feel like I need to be AS explosive just because I know 1 fatty will win me the game.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Not at all, if you have everything else you should be fine. Just run lands in their place. You lose a little bit of your speed, so I might suggest the more prison like version that I am running, but other than that it shouldn't hurt you. The only thing I can think of is that you are losing colored mana sources for whatever color you are splashing like red for Goblin Welder or blue for Thoughtcast, so you may want to find a way of putting more color sources in, or just go the colorless route and run Thran Dynamo and Voltaic Key.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
If you feel the Welder version instead, try this Mox-less list. This list took 17th in a 294-man tournament in Spain:
4 CIty of traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Great furnace
4 Gemstone mine
4 Goblin welder
3 Lightning greaves
4 Grim monolith
4 Metalworker
4 Tangle wire
4 Lodestone golem
3 Phyrexian metamorph
4 Kuldotha forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil engine
1 Steel hellkite
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum angel
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Sundering titan
1 Platinum emperion
1 Blightsteel colossus
4 Chalice of the void
4 Tormod's crypt
3 Phyrexian revoker
Although it's in Spanish, the tournament report can be found here. Just use Google Translate to translate it.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Platinum Angel
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Sundering Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Grim Monolith
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Mindslaver
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Voltaic Key
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Buried Ruin
4 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
I'm considering Spellskite and Scarecrone. I'm not sure of the likelihood, but Scarecrone + Mindslaver/Spine/Sundering Titan seems like a lot of fun.
Please don't double post. Use the edit key if you need to add content to a previous post.
Spellskite is awesome if your meta is full of Quasali Pridemage and Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile. Not running Spellskite OR Chalice of the Void really makes you fragile, one well timed kill spell on a metal worker or fatty can really ruin your day. I would not run Chalice because of all of your 1 cost spells, so Spellskite may be needed, this is of course, only if your meta demands it.
I would drop a Sundering Titan, as 1 is usually all that is needed. Also, since grim monolith AND thran dynamo work awesome with voltaic key, I might put that up to 4. Mindslaver isn't as good as I would like it to be mainboard unless you have Academy ruins. I would throw it side-board, Maybe drop it for a duplicant? These are all just small things though, It looks like a solid list.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
I would run additional Phyrexian Metamorphs. One of the most backbreaking plays you can make is to have multiple Lodestone Golems on the field. Metamorphs help.
I playtested extensively with both. Spellskites are great against fast aggro and good in protecting your combo pieces. Though I would recommend a means to have a blue source for both Metamorphs and Spellskites. I suggest cutting Buried Ruin for Seat of the Synods and one or two Academy Ruins.
As for Scarecrone, its only good if you have a Stax-like build but even then, it's not so great. Not to mention that you cannot recur both Spines and Slavers with Scarecrone because they're not creatures.
If you really want to run them however, I would suggest running them in multiples as they're great in multiples. They can provide a pseudo-card draw engine.
Also, that strategy is only good with Goblin Welders as there are no additional costs in recurring the artifacts that you mentioned.
I agree with both your Mindslaver and Duplicant comment. Duplicant is so good in a field filled with Goyf, KotR and other cheated in fatties.
Not necessarily. I find in my testing that if you can create a softlock in the first two turns (such as a turn 1 Lodestone Golem) or have an early superior board state (such as an early Wurmcoil Engine with back up Spellskite or Goblin Welder), you lands getting wasted isn't an issue.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I would take out the keys and probably the Dynamo and just rely on lands. Maybe add trinisphere to slow the opponent down that much more. It is much better (in my opinion) to just go by lands drops, grim monolith and Metalworker rather than risk having dead draws.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Never really tried that combo. If you think of it, it actually sounds like a good idea.
Though my list revolves around a fast softlock/big beater and a means to protect it Spellskite, Lightning Greaves, and Goblin Welder.
I have to add that an early Welder actually isn't optimal in the deck. With Gamble, an early Welder shouldn't be an issue.
Though with my current list, I wouldn't know what to remove (it's greedy enough that I'm running 61 cards + sideboard).
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Obviously, this is currently all talk. Needs testing.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Great Furnace
3 Rishadan Port
3 Wasteland
1 Mountain
Creatures:
4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Duplicant
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
4 Grim Monolith
3 Lightning Greaves
3 Mox Diamond
3 Voltaic Key
2 Mox Opal
3 Testing Slots
As for my testing slots, I've been testing Spellskites and actually been happy with it. I may change it with Tangle Wire depending on the meta (a control/combo meta).
I like the turn one Gamble play. It is a gamble but it does increase the explosiveness of the deck.
I'm actually contemplating on testing it.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
What are the deck's weaknesses? As mentioned a few times before, consistency is a big issue.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Tested it and I think it's not needed. Alright, if you do manage to get a turn 1 Gamble for Goblin Welder, not only you're risking getting Welder discarded, if you are successful with your Gamble, you can only get Welder online by turn 3. At that point you can still get a robot online and possibly attacking at that point. I could be wrong. A couple games on Cockatrice can't prove this but I believer my reasons are rational.
@the deck's problems:
Yes the deck is inconsistent if you don't know how to mulligan. Practicing your mulligans help.
The way I see it, it you can create a softlock/board advantage by turn two, you should be fine a Null Rod won't stop your Wurmcoil Engine/Lodestone Golem/Myr Battlesphere from stomping out.
Sure Energy Flux will be a ***** but you better win/softlock the board by turn 4 before it ever gets online.
I promise you, if you practice piloting the deck, you won't have a problem with it. Keep in mind, you are not a control deck trying to lock down the board (though you can try to create a SOFTlock to make way for your robot), you are a combo deck trying to get a winning board by turn 2.
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Mixed feelings about Gamble as well. Not too good against Thoughseize. Even if the Welder is searched for and resolved, with the limited R sources it's hard to Gamble > Welder in the same turn. Although a Gamble in your favor is game-changing, I'm wondering if it's just a win-more. (not a single Gamble was out of my favor, i.e. did not discard my Welder, I am biased)
I never sideboard at all (am I doing it right?). Are there some matchups where it just isn't necessary?
-I played a lot of Junk decks on Cockatrice today. Chalice does not help, I feel like it needs more Spellskite/Greaves. Stoneforge and Bobs are terrifying.
-Only played against one Fish player, quite miserable! It was only one round though. Any tips for that matchup in general?
I hate mulling into oblivion. People on Cockatrice are nice and let me draw extra. I hope it's just the unrealistic interface shuffling?
I will report as much as I can! But for now it's homework time.
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I'm quite fond of Steel Hellkite. It really wrecks aggro, and can sometimes help blow up LED/Petals or Bobs against a combo deck. I'm currently running three.
Chalice in the Welder list isn't working for me, I think I'll be trying Thorn of Amethyst. I hate having Welder be a dead draw.
Not sure how helpful Trinisphere is yet.
How does this deck stop Back to Basics? I hate seeing that card resolve. It's not helpful when the blue deck you're playing against one-for-ones via counters.
Stoneforge decks are rough.
Still messing around with 3x Gamble. I still like it, but I could just be emotionally attached.
Against Junk decks (if your playing on Cockatrice, you're probably also facing Nic Fit), I usually side in Thorn of Amethyst and sometimes CotV. Thorn followed by a second Thorn/Losestone Golem/Metamorph can be devastating to them (or to a lot of decks). CotV usually stops Thoughtsiezes and StPs.
Against Stephanies and Bobs, you usually want to have an active beater by turn 2 and try to force a block. That or just try to race them before they become active. The problem with this strategy is it's either a real easy task or a tall order. Once again, it's mulligan dependent. Though you should have enough tools to achieve this. Revokers can somehow stop Stephanies
Against Fish (assuming Merfolk) it's a hit or miss. Sometimes they just get a good hand with multiple FoWs to stop your early game plans. Sometimes, they keep a hand full of creatures and you just can them like a bunch of tuna and sardines. Postboard, I usually bring in my secret weapon against them.
Steel Hellkite is always a great Forgemaster target. I still wonder why people cut them. Against decks with a set converted mana costs such as Merfolk, it's awesome. A recurable Deed when it connects is backbreaking to the opponent.
I would never run CotV with Welder. Usually when I side in CotV, I side out Welders. Besides, Welders are supposed to be for the 'late game' when tricks actually become useful and when you need to recur your robots/tools.
Never really had a good experience with 3sphere. Thorns/CotV at one usually does the job better and it comes a turn earlier.
I usually try to beat Back to Basics/Energy Flux/Null Rod by having a superior board advantage before it lands. While Null Rod can land turns earlier than the enchantments, it's actually the easiest hate to fight around as most of your lands are not artifacts. Most of your robot beaters don't really have an activated ability and Welder isn't an artifact. Just to be sure, always have that miser basic land. Besides you'll never know when you're going to encounter that PtE.
Thorns postboard can slow those pesky enchantments even more.
Hopefully that helps.
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Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Myr Battlesphere seems really good. It won me plenty of games today...
Granted, it increases the deck's chance to get a turn 2 big robot but in the late game, Copper Gnome actually sucks.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX