Snapcaster is only bad when there are paths or swords in the graveyard, but that is what chalice is for. If you are running them, trinisphere is pretty taxing for him and can shut him down pretty well.
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Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
We've got a few solutions to null rod, but they're not great. We can kill it with Spine, or Karn, if you play either of those. If they've got an artifact in their graveyard (particularly something like mox diamond or lotus petal), we can weld out the rod in place of it. We often forget that welder works on their artifacts as well. For the builds playing chalice, you we chalice for 2 and prevent it. Finally, the most likely strategy, which is just to play straight through it. Hardcasting fatties like Wurmcoil and Lodestone is still very viable even under rod effects, and they beat face just as easily. Worst case, let your hand fill up, discard the fatties and weld them in when you do.
Alternatively, you can board utility cards in your color of choice if you know it's going to be a problem.
I virtually made top8 at an 18-man tournament today. However I didn't get to play through because my round three opponent gave me an 0-2 instead of the 2-0 I deserved. The mistake wasn't realized till top8 already started playing. I did get my entry fee back and bought a Karn, so not all was lost!
I lost to aggro Elves round one. I kept slow hands games two and three and couldn't keep up with Primal Commands and Regal Forces. Chalice doesn't actually stop them that hard, which sucks. I beat ANT, and two other really janky brews. (I tested against some real decks before I left so I didn't feel so bad about rounds three and four.)
Anyway, there is a decent High Tide player that frequents this comic shop. I talked with him a little after the tournament, and he claims that the High Tide/Metalworker match up is in his favor. Sure, he has Hurkyll's Recall and Rebuild, but is HT really faster than us?
I can't deny that he is a good player, but I feel like he's overconfident. HT needs to combo off the turn it casts Rebuild/Recall, which means that is at least turn five or six. I feel like MUD would have won by then. Hopefully I'll run into him next week. I want to see what this bluff is all about.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
That really sucks about not getting that win. I always talk to the store owner when I feel I should have made top 8, that has happened to me a couple times, but it was noticed before it was too late b/c I asked about it.
As for high tide, I feel the same way. They don't win until turn 4-5 and we usually have a good hold on the game by then, even when fighting through removal, which they have none of. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's not completely one sided, but I feel that we have the advantage.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
I played a non-Welder, non-Thoughtcast list. Chalice of the Void was absolutely amazing in my metagame. Once there are less STPs and Lightning Bolts, I want to make room for Thoughtcast. However if Junk and other black decks become popular I will be switching back to Welder. The Forgemaster toolbox makes game play quite flexible. I highly recommend leaving room for silver bullets.
I need your opinion on Phyrexian Revoker. During the tournament, I felt like running four in the sideboard was overkill. I didn't find him that useful, even against Elves and Qasali Pridemage. Honestly, I don't really care about Batterskull and SFM either, contrary to my previous post on page 8. I always felt like there was a better solution when matched up against those cards. It was only a few games though, and I don't want to make a judgement with this little information. I have decreased my Revoker count in the side to two.
After the tournament, I did add a Karn Liberated to the main deck, and All is Dust[s] and a singleton Tezzeret the Seeker to the sideboard.
I do not know if Tezzeret is playable, but the idea looks good on paper. Versus combo, you can tutor up a Chalice on 0, and a mix of Phyrexian Revokers and Thorns. If it sticks against a control match up, it breaks Grim Monolith, gives your guys Vigilance if you need it, and assembles the Staff of Domination combo.
If I can play him, I'll have two of my favorite planeswalkers in a single deck, so that's another plus.
His problem is obviously the UU required to cast him, as I run six blue mana sources. I guess he costs 4UU with a Key in play, which isn't by any means out of our reach. He just needs to be worth that trouble. I'll let you guys know my testing results.
Alex, what is this sword you speak of? I haven't seen a spoiler for it yet. Link us, if possible! Any odd-ball high-costing artifact means a chance of a singleton inclusion!
I've been playing this deck since the winter now, and I still haven't really met a really bad match up. Of course, there are specific cards like Energy Flux, Null Rod, and Stoney Silence, but is there an actual deck we straight up lose to? I find that when I'm losing, the deck is essentially beating itself.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
This has proabably been asked, but what do you guys think about Inkewell leviathan, even to take the place of blightsteel. He has the shroud built in so you dont need to worrk about path or swords, and the island walk is sweet. He might be better in the current meta. Any thoughts on him?
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Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
This has proabably been asked, but what do you guys think about Inkewell leviathan, even to take the place of blightsteel. He has the shroud built in so you dont need to worrk about path or swords, and the island walk is sweet. He might be better in the current meta. Any thoughts on him?
Might be the first time this was asked on this forum!
Islandwalk and Shroud with no doubts are very relevant abilities. However, if you want to tutor something up for the win on the current or the following turn, I still think Blightsteel is the way to go.
When Islandwalk is relevant, you would be playing against the scenarios listed below. They assume that you're in a position to tutor or cast something that's worth 7UU=9.
- Bashing with Inkwell three times might bring you the game, but against Tempo, you're against a rather quick clock as well. Wurmcoil deals 6 and gains you just as much. I think that is much safer.
- Similarly, Merfolk would have a harder time dealing with Steel Hellkite, Wurmcoil Engine, or a surprise haste-d Blightsteel. Dismember is a problem for Steel Hellkite, but that's about all they can do.
- Against Stoneblade, the theoretical Batterskull would be gaining your opponent four life, which would essentially make Inkwell a 3/11. You'll also have to deal with the incoming attacks. A connected Hellkite with x=0 renders Batterskull useless, even if they have enough mana to re-play the equipment.
- NO RUG/Bant: Progenitus on the field? Race him with Wurmcoils and humiliate him. If he's tapped out and you have an active Forgemaster with Greaves, tinker up your Blightsteel and retaliate. In a pinch, a Platinum creature or a Metamorph can also save you.
- Against Reanimator, you'll either want to nuke a guy with Duplicant or Metamorph, lock him out, or go straight for the win. The four turns (three with Greaves) with Inkwell would give your reanimating opponent time to find answers.
I just think these are the better options you can conjure up when combating these opponents.
I cannot deny the usefulness of Shroud in some situations. However, if you're in a position to activate Forgemaster and your opponent has been presenting a white source, the deck is capable of playing around that. Batterskull makes it even harder to justify. I know that it can't always happen, but this is why we want to resolve a Chalice or a Spellskite.
That being said, I still would keep an Inkwell around for possible future use.
And as always, if I missed something please let me know.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
I really like the welder/forgamaster interaction. Tell me what you think of my list
In my meta, 4x Chalice is a must. I recently took out 2x boots for Karn. I like him a lot. I might put the boots back in the deck instead of the keys.. 90% of the time, Chalice is on 1, so keys are dead...
I would not run Relic of Progenitus in the board if you are playing chalice. Same with pithing needle. I would replace them with 2 more crypts and 2 revokers. just my opinion
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
In my meta, 4x Chalice is a must. I recently took out 2x boots for Karn. I like him a lot. I might put the boots back in the deck instead of the keys.. 90% of the time, Chalice is on 1, so keys are dead...
So are your Welders. If the Welders are a must, perhaps you can try Spellskites instead and move the Chalices to the board. Also, you may want more threats if you are taking the Welder plan. Consider cutting Crucible(s) or Karn(s) for additional Lodestones and Forgesmasters.
I agree with MoT_Pestilence on the sideboard changes. Additionally, I think the Canonists are unnecessary.
Also, a new card spoiled from Innistrad:
Grafdigger's Cage 1
Artifact
Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries.
Players can't cast cards from graveyards or libraries.
How much are the Forgemaster players bothered from this? And the Welders?
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
So are your Welders. If the Welders are a must, perhaps you can try Spellskites instead and move the Chalices to the board. Also, you may want more threats if you are taking the Welder plan. Consider cutting Crucible(s) or Karn(s) for additional Lodestones and Forgesmasters.
I agree with MoT_Pestilence on the sideboard changes. Additionally, I think the Canonists are unnecessary.
Also, a new card spoiled from Innistrad:
Grafdigger's Cage 1
Artifact
Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries.
Players can't cast cards from graveyards or libraries.
How much are the Forgemaster players bothered from this? And the Welders?
The card is awesome of you're running the Stompy version (Chalice maindeck/no Welders and Forgemaster) but even then, it does really have a synergy with Chalice since it will always be on one.
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Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
I was worried of having the Cage bother us, not running it :D. It stops Welder and Forgemaster tricks. Its primary role in the format (if run) would be yard hate, and would coincidentally stifle certain versions of this deck. I thought about it a little more, and I'm just hoping other decks will just run better other forms of yard hate.
Alex, thanks for the link. I'm excited for any artifact that gets printed now, even if it looks janky. Because of the toolbox capabilities and the mass amounts of mana that can be produced, the issue is not whether or not it can be cast or activated. It's just the playability. Can't wait for its spoiling!
@Spirit,
Being a creature based combo deck, you'll want to play creatures over inanimate artifacts. You'll probably want to add it in quantities to improve the chances of drawing it, but that would ironically ruin the consistency of the deck. The deck already runs the risk of drawing all ramp in the opening hand. The Elixir adds to the problem. Imagine having a ton of gasoline but no car.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
I played a non-Welder, non-Thoughtcast list. Chalice of the Void was absolutely amazing in my metagame. Once there are less STPs and Lightning Bolts, I want to make room for Thoughtcast. However if Junk and other black decks become popular I will be switching back to Welder. The Forgemaster toolbox makes game play quite flexible. I highly recommend leaving room for silver bullets.
Is there any way you could post your actual list? I've been looking to play something different in Legacy for a while, and I'm pretty sure Forgemaster Combo is what I want to play, whether it be a Welder version, a Thoughtcast version, or a Sylvan Library version, I'm not sure yet.
Since you seem to be the main one posting in this thread, I'd like to have your opinion.
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
Chalice of the void is a must in the meta right now. With that in mind, the welder version is (in my opinion) just not good enough because of the fact that chalice cannot be played in it. I'm playing a version without any of the listed cards and it has treated me very well. Chalice along with spellskite can keep your fatties alive through all of the StP's PtE, and snapcasters to bring them back.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
@Spirit: I spoke too soon then. Good to hear it's an option, and congrats on the finish. Perhaps I'll come around testing it out. On the other hand, despite not having instant protection against STP, Greaves does give attacking creatures haste. With Wurmcoil, Hellkite, and Blightsteel, attacking is important. Perhaps this choice comes down to play style.
@Brandon: I second what Pestilence has to say. Chalice forces STP decks to fight your creatures with counterspells or their creatures. You'll almost always beat their creatures, so play around the counter magic and you're good to go.
Just work with the core cards of the deck, and then fill in the filler spots based on your play style and your meta.
I'm not yet comfortable with posting my own list for whatever reason. Not sure why.
But! here's what I think should be in a Forgemaster shell:
In my opinion:
Play mono-brown if you're seeing a lot of white decks.
Play Welder if you see a lot of non-white blue and black decks.
Play Thoughtcast if it's a well mixed metagame.
Play Sylvan Library so you can side in Seal of Primordium if you see a lot of Stoney Silence and/or Null Rod.
It's kind of like picking your first Pokemon in the Game Boy games.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
I'm definitely going to check out the variations of the lists. I'm building a nice list to run in a couple of upcoming local tourneys, as well as getting ready to play in the Charlotte SCG Legacy Open. So, I expect to see a lot of U/W Stoneblade and Maverick, honestly.
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
I hope I don't sound like a know it all in any of these posts, I'm just trying to give advise on what I think is best, feel free to ignore me at any time. But let's start with your list.
One use things are not good for legacy unless you are for sure winning that turn (as in TES or Belcher, and Belcher isn't even that good), I am refering to your Lotus Petal's and Crystal Veins. I just think it's really bad. I believe people tried Crystal Vein out when the deck was still new, but it's just better to run actual lands, or Moxen in it's place. same with the Lotus petal. It should really be Mox Diamonds, if you want to run something like it.
I understand that you run the crystal veins with the idea that they can be brought back with the crucible of worlds that you run, and that does make them slightly better. But I feel that Crucible is not what we want in this deck. It is very slow and does nothing to help us win the game besides the occasional wasteland lock, which is slow and can be overcome.
The great furnace do nothing right now in the list except that they are artifacts, so I would drop them for Seat of the Synod so you can actually pay mana for spellskite sometimes.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask, this is my favorite deck in the format right now and I'm always happy when someone else tries it out.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
I hope I don't sound like a know it all in any of these posts, I'm just trying to give advise on what I think is best, feel free to ignore me at any time. But let's start with your list.
One use things are not good for legacy unless you are for sure winning that turn (as in TES or Belcher, and Belcher isn't even that good), I am refering to your Lotus Petal's and Crystal Veins. I just think it's really bad. I believe people tried Crystal Vein out when the deck was still new, but it's just better to run actual lands, or Moxen in it's place. same with the Lotus petal. It should really be Mox Diamonds, if you want to run something like it.
I understand that you run the crystal veins with the idea that they can be brought back with the crucible of worlds that you run, and that does make them slightly better. But I feel that Crucible is not what we want in this deck. It is very slow and does nothing to help us win the game besides the occasional wasteland lock, which is slow and can be overcome.
The great furnace do nothing right now in the list except that they are artifacts, so I would drop them for Seat of the Synod so you can actually pay mana for spellskite sometimes.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask, this is my favorite deck in the format right now and I'm always happy when someone else tries it out.
Thanks for any input. I'm incredibly new to the decklist, so I need any help with it that I can get. I've been wanting to play the list since I seen Ali Aintrazi play it a while ago at an SCG Open.
I thought about going with Lotus Petals so that I wouldn't have to pitch the land to Mox Diamond, seeing as the list is really light on land. (I seen the idea brought up a few pages back in this thread.) But, Mox Diamond does seem like it would definitely be better in the list.
What do you suggest I replace the Crucibles and Crystal Veins with? Metalworkers, obviously should be in the list, and I'm an idiot for leaving them out. Maybe Thoughtcast in the spot of the Crucibles?
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
Not everybody plays the deck like I do, so you may not get the same response from everyone. I would add two more fatties in place of the crucibles, guys that are good in certain situations. I play the forgemasters as something to tutor up silver bullets like duplicant when there is an emrakul on the field, or Platinum angel when I'm about to die.
As the lands go, I run a 1 of academy ruins to help recur your dudes, and a 1 of Tower of the Magistrate to deal with Batterskull and other equipments. then any leftover land slots fill with seat of the synod and darksteel citadel.
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“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu
Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Not everybody plays the deck like I do, so you may not get the same response from everyone. I would add two more fatties in place of the crucibles, guys that are good in certain situations. I play the forgemasters as something to tutor up silver bullets like duplicant when there is an emrakul on the field, or Platinum angel when I'm about to die.
As the lands go, I run a 1 of academy ruins to help recur your dudes, and a 1 of Tower of the Magistrate to deal with Batterskull and other equipments. then any leftover land slots fill with seat of the synod and darksteel citadel.
I definitely appreciate the help. I've taken what you've said into serious consideration, and I've always been looking over past SCG lists that Top 16'd. I've come across some interesting results.
Right now, I've got a list I'm going to take to a local Legacy tourney in a few weeks, to do some fine tuning before I goto SCG Charlotte.
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
For the same cost in blue, you can run Fabricate and search for anything minus Karn and All Is Dust.
How did you get the Recruiter? I was thinking about picking some up for another deck.
_______________________
Edit: Well, all of Dark Ascension is spoiled. Seems like there's nothing here for us to take. Most of the deck comes from the three blocks that printed the most artifacts. I guess we'll have to wait patiently!
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
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-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Alternatively, you can board utility cards in your color of choice if you know it's going to be a problem.
I lost to aggro Elves round one. I kept slow hands games two and three and couldn't keep up with Primal Commands and Regal Forces. Chalice doesn't actually stop them that hard, which sucks. I beat ANT, and two other really janky brews. (I tested against some real decks before I left so I didn't feel so bad about rounds three and four.)
Anyway, there is a decent High Tide player that frequents this comic shop. I talked with him a little after the tournament, and he claims that the High Tide/Metalworker match up is in his favor. Sure, he has Hurkyll's Recall and Rebuild, but is HT really faster than us?
I can't deny that he is a good player, but I feel like he's overconfident. HT needs to combo off the turn it casts Rebuild/Recall, which means that is at least turn five or six. I feel like MUD would have won by then. Hopefully I'll run into him next week. I want to see what this bluff is all about.
As for high tide, I feel the same way. They don't win until turn 4-5 and we usually have a good hold on the game by then, even when fighting through removal, which they have none of. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's not completely one sided, but I feel that we have the advantage.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
I need your opinion on Phyrexian Revoker. During the tournament, I felt like running four in the sideboard was overkill. I didn't find him that useful, even against Elves and Qasali Pridemage. Honestly, I don't really care about Batterskull and SFM either, contrary to my previous post on page 8. I always felt like there was a better solution when matched up against those cards. It was only a few games though, and I don't want to make a judgement with this little information. I have decreased my Revoker count in the side to two.
After the tournament, I did add a Karn Liberated to the main deck, and All is Dust[s] and a singleton Tezzeret the Seeker to the sideboard.
I do not know if Tezzeret is playable, but the idea looks good on paper. Versus combo, you can tutor up a Chalice on 0, and a mix of Phyrexian Revokers and Thorns. If it sticks against a control match up, it breaks Grim Monolith, gives your guys Vigilance if you need it, and assembles the Staff of Domination combo.
If I can play him, I'll have two of my favorite planeswalkers in a single deck, so that's another plus.
His problem is obviously the UU required to cast him, as I run six blue mana sources. I guess he costs 4UU with a Key in play, which isn't by any means out of our reach. He just needs to be worth that trouble. I'll let you guys know my testing results.
Alex, what is this sword you speak of? I haven't seen a spoiler for it yet. Link us, if possible! Any odd-ball high-costing artifact means a chance of a singleton inclusion!
I've been playing this deck since the winter now, and I still haven't really met a really bad match up. Of course, there are specific cards like Energy Flux, Null Rod, and Stoney Silence, but is there an actual deck we straight up lose to? I find that when I'm losing, the deck is essentially beating itself.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Might be the first time this was asked on this forum!
Islandwalk and Shroud with no doubts are very relevant abilities. However, if you want to tutor something up for the win on the current or the following turn, I still think Blightsteel is the way to go.
When Islandwalk is relevant, you would be playing against the scenarios listed below. They assume that you're in a position to tutor or cast something that's worth 7UU=9.
- Bashing with Inkwell three times might bring you the game, but against Tempo, you're against a rather quick clock as well. Wurmcoil deals 6 and gains you just as much. I think that is much safer.
- Similarly, Merfolk would have a harder time dealing with Steel Hellkite, Wurmcoil Engine, or a surprise haste-d Blightsteel. Dismember is a problem for Steel Hellkite, but that's about all they can do.
- Against Stoneblade, the theoretical Batterskull would be gaining your opponent four life, which would essentially make Inkwell a 3/11. You'll also have to deal with the incoming attacks. A connected Hellkite with x=0 renders Batterskull useless, even if they have enough mana to re-play the equipment.
- NO RUG/Bant: Progenitus on the field? Race him with Wurmcoils and humiliate him. If he's tapped out and you have an active Forgemaster with Greaves, tinker up your Blightsteel and retaliate. In a pinch, a Platinum creature or a Metamorph can also save you.
- Against Reanimator, you'll either want to nuke a guy with Duplicant or Metamorph, lock him out, or go straight for the win. The four turns (three with Greaves) with Inkwell would give your reanimating opponent time to find answers.
I just think these are the better options you can conjure up when combating these opponents.
I cannot deny the usefulness of Shroud in some situations. However, if you're in a position to activate Forgemaster and your opponent has been presenting a white source, the deck is capable of playing around that. Batterskull makes it even harder to justify. I know that it can't always happen, but this is why we want to resolve a Chalice or a Spellskite.
That being said, I still would keep an Inkwell around for possible future use.
And as always, if I missed something please let me know.
4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Steel Helkite
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
Mana Stones (9)
4 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Opal
2 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the void
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Voltaic Key
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Karn Liberated
Lands (18)
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Mountain
1 Platinum Angel
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Trinisphere
2 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spine of Ish Sha
I really like the welder/forgamaster interaction. Tell me what you think of my list
In my meta, 4x Chalice is a must. I recently took out 2x boots for Karn. I like him a lot. I might put the boots back in the deck instead of the keys.. 90% of the time, Chalice is on 1, so keys are dead...
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
So are your Welders. If the Welders are a must, perhaps you can try Spellskites instead and move the Chalices to the board. Also, you may want more threats if you are taking the Welder plan. Consider cutting Crucible(s) or Karn(s) for additional Lodestones and Forgesmasters.
I agree with MoT_Pestilence on the sideboard changes. Additionally, I think the Canonists are unnecessary.
Also, a new card spoiled from Innistrad:
Grafdigger's Cage 1
Artifact
Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries.
Players can't cast cards from graveyards or libraries.
How much are the Forgemaster players bothered from this? And the Welders?
The card is awesome of you're running the Stompy version (Chalice maindeck/no Welders and Forgemaster) but even then, it does really have a synergy with Chalice since it will always be on one.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Alex, thanks for the link. I'm excited for any artifact that gets printed now, even if it looks janky. Because of the toolbox capabilities and the mass amounts of mana that can be produced, the issue is not whether or not it can be cast or activated. It's just the playability. Can't wait for its spoiling!
@Spirit,
Being a creature based combo deck, you'll want to play creatures over inanimate artifacts. You'll probably want to add it in quantities to improve the chances of drawing it, but that would ironically ruin the consistency of the deck. The deck already runs the risk of drawing all ramp in the opening hand. The Elixir adds to the problem. Imagine having a ton of gasoline but no car.
Is there any way you could post your actual list? I've been looking to play something different in Legacy for a while, and I'm pretty sure Forgemaster Combo is what I want to play, whether it be a Welder version, a Thoughtcast version, or a Sylvan Library version, I'm not sure yet.
Since you seem to be the main one posting in this thread, I'd like to have your opinion.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
@Brandon: I second what Pestilence has to say. Chalice forces STP decks to fight your creatures with counterspells or their creatures. You'll almost always beat their creatures, so play around the counter magic and you're good to go.
Just work with the core cards of the deck, and then fill in the filler spots based on your play style and your meta.
I'm not yet comfortable with posting my own list for whatever reason. Not sure why.
But! here's what I think should be in a Forgemaster shell:
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Lodestone Golem
1x Blightsteel Colossus
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
4x City of Traitors
4x Wasteland
Filler/meta slots can be filled with:
Play mono-brown if you're seeing a lot of white decks.
Play Welder if you see a lot of non-white blue and black decks.
Play Thoughtcast if it's a well mixed metagame.
Play Sylvan Library so you can side in Seal of Primordium if you see a lot of Stoney Silence and/or Null Rod.
It's kind of like picking your first Pokemon in the Game Boy games.
I'm definitely going to check out the variations of the lists. I'm building a nice list to run in a couple of upcoming local tourneys, as well as getting ready to play in the Charlotte SCG Legacy Open. So, I expect to see a lot of U/W Stoneblade and Maverick, honestly.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Ah, okay. Thanks a lot!
I'm going to start working on a list, but, as a preliminary, this is what I have so far (thanks to you guys!)
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Spellskite
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Voltaic Key
3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Staff of Domination
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
4 Wasteland
2 Great Furnace
One use things are not good for legacy unless you are for sure winning that turn (as in TES or Belcher, and Belcher isn't even that good), I am refering to your Lotus Petal's and Crystal Veins. I just think it's really bad. I believe people tried Crystal Vein out when the deck was still new, but it's just better to run actual lands, or Moxen in it's place. same with the Lotus petal. It should really be Mox Diamonds, if you want to run something like it.
I understand that you run the crystal veins with the idea that they can be brought back with the crucible of worlds that you run, and that does make them slightly better. But I feel that Crucible is not what we want in this deck. It is very slow and does nothing to help us win the game besides the occasional wasteland lock, which is slow and can be overcome.
The great furnace do nothing right now in the list except that they are artifacts, so I would drop them for Seat of the Synod so you can actually pay mana for spellskite sometimes.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask, this is my favorite deck in the format right now and I'm always happy when someone else tries it out.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Thanks for any input. I'm incredibly new to the decklist, so I need any help with it that I can get. I've been wanting to play the list since I seen Ali Aintrazi play it a while ago at an SCG Open.
I thought about going with Lotus Petals so that I wouldn't have to pitch the land to Mox Diamond, seeing as the list is really light on land. (I seen the idea brought up a few pages back in this thread.) But, Mox Diamond does seem like it would definitely be better in the list.
What do you suggest I replace the Crucibles and Crystal Veins with? Metalworkers, obviously should be in the list, and I'm an idiot for leaving them out. Maybe Thoughtcast in the spot of the Crucibles?
As the lands go, I run a 1 of academy ruins to help recur your dudes, and a 1 of Tower of the Magistrate to deal with Batterskull and other equipments. then any leftover land slots fill with seat of the synod and darksteel citadel.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
I definitely appreciate the help. I've taken what you've said into serious consideration, and I've always been looking over past SCG lists that Top 16'd. I've come across some interesting results.
Right now, I've got a list I'm going to take to a local Legacy tourney in a few weeks, to do some fine tuning before I goto SCG Charlotte.
One of the most crazy thing of my magic career :
T1: Ancient Tomb + Grim Monolith
T2: City of traitors --> Tap for 7 --> Karn Liberated --> Exile your Land --> Go!
Wow i love this deck... No Counter Magic bull**** lol
How did you get the Recruiter? I was thinking about picking some up for another deck.
_______________________
Edit: Well, all of Dark Ascension is spoiled. Seems like there's nothing here for us to take. Most of the deck comes from the three blocks that printed the most artifacts. I guess we'll have to wait patiently!