No, you don't. There are a few links to The Source threads in the first pages of this Legacy forum (try the Legacy Soul Sisters and "How does this deck work?", a.k.a. Nic Fit threads); try them first.
New question: How good is Faithless Looting in this deck, especially Goblin Welder builds? In the Sensei's Divining Top slot, I think it can fix your hand incredibly fast, but it has none of the late-game consistency of the Top.
I think that adding the new RTR Guttersnipe would be good in here especially if you add some Gut Shot's. It might be diluting down the deck a bit, but still possibly be worth it.
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"You can't stop the signal, Mel." - Mr. Universe
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
[color=black]Would it be possible to make this deck without the recruiters? I mean, unless I have gotten it all wrong, you fetch your Painter with the recruiter, and legacy has a few Tutors who could be used. Like Cruel Tutor and Grim Tutors. Thus, you could possibly build a mono black Painter-deck instead.
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Urza thought it a crusade. Xantcha knew it was a robbery...
As I did with goblins, I felt it was time to expand my legacy collection! I bought basically everything for the deck but I was wondering why no one is playing Lion's Eye Diamonds? They let you combo on the turn you play grindstone and with welder you can crack LED for mana and then weld in Grindstone for the win.
I recently bought a full set of power at full price, red is my favorite color, painter-grindstone is one of my favorite combos and I am still reluctant to drop $1200 for a set of recruiters. If the deck was pretty dominant it might be worth it but as of now...
i created a mono-blue version that allowed me to get either combo piece with Fabricate and Grindstone or various sideboard/support cards with Trinket Mage. You can find it in my signature under "Countertop Painter". It was actually pretty good (it has blue, duh). I went 3-1 with it a couple times at my HIGHLY competitive store (meta is 90% what you see at the top of Legacy GPs and SCG Opens).
EDIT: Uh, nevermind. I didn't use fabricate. But you could....
I recently bought a full set of power at full price, red is my favorite color, painter-grindstone is one of my favorite combos and I am still reluctant to drop $1200 for a set of recruiters. If the deck was pretty dominant it might be worth it but as of now...
i created a mono-blue version that allowed me to get either combo piece with Fabricate and Grindstone or various sideboard/support cards with Trinket Mage. You can find it in my signature under "Countertop Painter". It was actually pretty good (it has blue, duh). I went 3-1 with it a couple times at my HIGHLY competitive store (meta is 90% what you see at the top of Legacy GPs and SCG Opens).
EDIT: Uh, nevermind. I didn't use fabricate. But you could....
Congrats on another budget build! This is not the budget forum and I was hoping to get some constructive advise. If you cannot afford or do not wish to purchase the recruiters then don't. But please do not come onto the main forum and send the conversation towards a path of budget replacements.
Congrats on another budget build! This is not the budget forum and I was hoping to get some constructive advise. If you cannot afford or do not wish to purchase the recruiters then don't. But please do not come onto the main forum and send the conversation towards a path of budget replacements.
Someone is just full of sunshine!
Man, I really just ruined this active forum with my wasteful posts. I would argue that my post had more interesting value than your last 3 combined.
To be fair, you are right, my discussion of a blue build doesn't really go here. However, it isn't really a budget build as its cost would approach $1000.
I tried Lion's Eye Diamond with my blue build and I of course liked it when it allowed me to combo on turn 2 but I wasn't sure it was worth more than a few slots and ended up dropping it altogether because it just doesn't serve the same number and value of functions in this deck as it does in storm builds with tutors, wishes, etc.
Finally, nobody is playing LEDs because nobody is playing this deck. It is more expensive than actual tier 1 decks. You might be the only person on all of MTGS that is actually playing it. If you want to talk with only people who have recruiters and are playing this deck then you might be out of luck on here. If you want to discuss the deck with other people that are interested in it and the Painter-Grindstone combo then adjust your attitude and enjoy the forum for the entertainment that it is.
Man, I really just ruined this active forum with my wasteful posts. I would argue that my post had more interesting value than your last 3 combined.
To be fair, you are right, my discussion of a blue build doesn't really go here. However, it isn't really a budget build as its cost would approach $1000.
I tried Lion's Eye Diamond with my blue build and I of course liked it when it allowed me to combo on turn 2 but I wasn't sure it was worth more than a few slots and ended up dropping it altogether because it just doesn't serve the same number and value of functions in this deck as it does in storm builds with tutors, wishes, etc.
Finally, nobody is playing LEDs because nobody is playing this deck. It is more expensive than actual tier 1 decks. You might be the only person on all of MTGS that is actually playing it. If you want to talk with only people who have recruiters and are playing this deck then you might be out of luck on here. If you want to discuss the deck with other people that are interested in it and the Painter-Grindstone combo then adjust your attitude and enjoy the forum for the entertainment that it is.
It is actually quite simple, if someone posts "try this to save money" it is obviously budget. I am looking for advice from players that have played before WITHOUT budget in mind.
I do, however, appreciate your observation on the LED's as that was my initial request. I also appreciate your suggestion to move to the Source in order to get useful information and not just "why would you buy those." Now I understand the MTGS is not the place to discuss theory... I am sorry to have bothered you on the IMPERIAL painter forum.
Seriously...
While I get where TRAMD is coming from, this is for Imperial Painter which is catagorized by Painterstone+ Imperial Recruiter Toolbox.
Playing this deck without recruiters makes it U/R Painter, which has its own thread.
Also, if my rules knowledge is up to snuff, isnt budget talk verbaton? EDIT: Im mixing up rules in my sleep deprived stupor...
@noremac: Tell me, what do you think about your pox match-up? I've played against this deck once and while I lost 1-2, I still have no clue where this deck falls on the scale.
I play the u/r painter list, and I think LED is a good card for that deck and not this deck. The simple reason being that if you have the mana to recruit the servant, you should have enough for grindstone activation. The slots are much better served in being disruption and protection cards.
I don't play the recruiter version and I might be wrong though. You should try it out for yourself, using proxies if you haven't acquired them.
@noremac: Tell me, what do you think about your pox match-up? I've played against this deck once and while I lost 1-2, I still have no clue where this deck falls on the scale.
I have only tested the high tide match up, which by the way seems unloseable, because I just built it 2 days ago. I am waiting for one of my good friends in order to begin serious testing with it. After I feel comfortable with it and play some events, I will try and do a MU analysis as anything online is out of date.
I have only tested the high tide match up, which by the way seems unloseable, because I just built it 2 days ago. I am waiting for one of my good friends in order to begin serious testing with it. After I feel comfortable with it and play some events, I will try and do a MU analysis as anything online is out of date.
Ok...
From what I can remember, I was trying to race him in the game I remember. He had painterstone out, but I kept smallpox'ing and making him discard other stuff.
He eventually got the mana and won, but thats all I remember.
I think that Imperial Painter is well-positioned in the current meta. RUG, BUG, Stoneblade, and CounterTop are all very beatable matchups. RDW is at a low. Sneak and Show is very tough to beat though (darn Emrakul). Other Combo decks can be sided against, but can be faster occasionally.
I played this at the SCG Invitational, going 4-0 (although 1-3 in the Standard portion).
However, I really played poorly in the Legacy Open, going 3-5.
Round 1, I beat Dredge 2-0, despite making many play mistakes. It was a bad omen to make many mistakes and still win.
Round 2, I lost to RUG 1-2. I made too many mistakes in Game 2 and I mulliganed twice vs. his own great draw in game 3. I still almost won when I top decked 2 Imperial Recruiter in a row (darn double Force of Will).
Round 3, I beat Esper Stoneblade 2-0. Landed Magus of the Moon in the 1st game. He did not get any basic land other than Island. Game 2 was pretty close, but I finally drew some artifact hate for a hard cast Batterskull when Magus of the Moon was in play. I made a few mistakes here too, but emerged unscathed.
Round 4, I lost to Ad Nauseum, 1-2. Game 1, he went off turn 2. Game 2, I locked him with Trinisphere and he played nothing. Game 3, he went off turn 3 only because my Magus of the Moon slowed him down a turn.
Round 5, I lost to UW RIP/Helm Combo, 0-2. He basically drew Top, Counterbalance, backed with 1-2 Force of Will each game and cruised to victory, although it took forever. I probably should have tried to mull to a hand as good as his, but that's nearly impossible.
Round 6 vs. Sneak and Show, 0-2. Basically nothing I can do vs. Show and Tell into Griselbrand both games. I had many mulligans and really poor hands these games. This was kind of a bye for this opponent.
Round 7, I beat Merfolk 2-0. Probably Painter's best matchup. I crushed him in game 1, luring him to Daze while I had Simian Spirit Guide in hand. Game 2 was actually very close. He was really low, but built up an army. I had to double Firespout the board, clearing my own Imperial Painter too. Eventually with him at 1 and me at 2, he drew Mutavault. I then drew Magma Jet.
Round 8, I lost to RUG 0-2. He had 7 Nimble Mongoose in 2 games. I made a few mistakes, but he basically always had Force of Will and Nimble Mongooses did lethal. I actually checked his deck after the match to check for extra Mongooses, FoW, or Delver (played 4-3-3 in the last game). He was honest.
I feel like when I can play this deck decently, I can do very well.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
What does your list look like? I see you play magma jet and fire spout which are cards I would not have even considered. Both seem good but bolt > magma jet. Also with fire spout, are you playing 1 taiga or just using the red cost?
What does your list look like? I see you play magma jet and fire spout which are cards I would not have even considered. Both seem good but bolt > magma jet. Also with fire spout, are you playing 1 taiga or just using the red cost?
My SB is 3 Trinisphere, 4 Tormod's Crypt, 2 Faerie Macabre, 3 Firespout, 2 Shattering Spree, and 1 Viashino Heretic.
I actually put the Firespout because I was scared of Elves and thought it would be good vs. Maverick too. The Magma Jets are kind of a "Sensei's Divining Top." This deck is the non-Goblin Welder version.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Why not play welder? He helps against counters quite a bit and can be used for some Top tricks. Also, is Magma Jet worth playing over the other 2 tops even without welder? Extra tops may not be great but you can always play then out and on a turn with extra mana grindstone them away.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?10090-Deck-Imperial-Painter
New question: How good is Faithless Looting in this deck, especially Goblin Welder builds? In the Sensei's Divining Top slot, I think it can fix your hand incredibly fast, but it has none of the late-game consistency of the Top.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
Recruiters aren't very good in much else (Maybe Aluren), and the high price tag is quite daunting for people.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
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Keon on MODO
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
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Keon on MODO
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
i created a mono-blue version that allowed me to get either combo piece with Fabricate and Grindstone or various sideboard/support cards with Trinket Mage. You can find it in my signature under "Countertop Painter". It was actually pretty good (it has blue, duh). I went 3-1 with it a couple times at my HIGHLY competitive store (meta is 90% what you see at the top of Legacy GPs and SCG Opens).
EDIT: Uh, nevermind. I didn't use fabricate. But you could....
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
At what point did I say that I was looking for a budget replacement? My question was simple yet has still gone unanswered.
Congrats on another budget build! This is not the budget forum and I was hoping to get some constructive advise. If you cannot afford or do not wish to purchase the recruiters then don't. But please do not come onto the main forum and send the conversation towards a path of budget replacements.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
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Keon on MODO
Someone is just full of sunshine!
Man, I really just ruined this active forum with my wasteful posts. I would argue that my post had more interesting value than your last 3 combined.
To be fair, you are right, my discussion of a blue build doesn't really go here. However, it isn't really a budget build as its cost would approach $1000.
I tried Lion's Eye Diamond with my blue build and I of course liked it when it allowed me to combo on turn 2 but I wasn't sure it was worth more than a few slots and ended up dropping it altogether because it just doesn't serve the same number and value of functions in this deck as it does in storm builds with tutors, wishes, etc.
Finally, nobody is playing LEDs because nobody is playing this deck. It is more expensive than actual tier 1 decks. You might be the only person on all of MTGS that is actually playing it. If you want to talk with only people who have recruiters and are playing this deck then you might be out of luck on here. If you want to discuss the deck with other people that are interested in it and the Painter-Grindstone combo then adjust your attitude and enjoy the forum for the entertainment that it is.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
It is actually quite simple, if someone posts "try this to save money" it is obviously budget. I am looking for advice from players that have played before WITHOUT budget in mind.
I do, however, appreciate your observation on the LED's as that was my initial request. I also appreciate your suggestion to move to the Source in order to get useful information and not just "why would you buy those." Now I understand the MTGS is not the place to discuss theory... I am sorry to have bothered you on the IMPERIAL painter forum.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
On Thunderous Wrath
Keon on MODO
While I get where TRAMD is coming from, this is for Imperial Painter which is catagorized by Painterstone+ Imperial Recruiter Toolbox.
Playing this deck without recruiters makes it U/R Painter, which has its own thread.
Also, if my rules knowledge is up to snuff, isnt budget talk verbaton? EDIT: Im mixing up rules in my sleep deprived stupor...
@noremac: Tell me, what do you think about your pox match-up? I've played against this deck once and while I lost 1-2, I still have no clue where this deck falls on the scale.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI don't play the recruiter version and I might be wrong though. You should try it out for yourself, using proxies if you haven't acquired them.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I have only tested the high tide match up, which by the way seems unloseable, because I just built it 2 days ago. I am waiting for one of my good friends in order to begin serious testing with it. After I feel comfortable with it and play some events, I will try and do a MU analysis as anything online is out of date.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
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Keon on MODO
Ok...
From what I can remember, I was trying to race him in the game I remember. He had painterstone out, but I kept smallpox'ing and making him discard other stuff.
He eventually got the mana and won, but thats all I remember.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI played this at the SCG Invitational, going 4-0 (although 1-3 in the Standard portion).
However, I really played poorly in the Legacy Open, going 3-5.
Round 1, I beat Dredge 2-0, despite making many play mistakes. It was a bad omen to make many mistakes and still win.
Round 2, I lost to RUG 1-2. I made too many mistakes in Game 2 and I mulliganed twice vs. his own great draw in game 3. I still almost won when I top decked 2 Imperial Recruiter in a row (darn double Force of Will).
Round 3, I beat Esper Stoneblade 2-0. Landed Magus of the Moon in the 1st game. He did not get any basic land other than Island. Game 2 was pretty close, but I finally drew some artifact hate for a hard cast Batterskull when Magus of the Moon was in play. I made a few mistakes here too, but emerged unscathed.
Round 4, I lost to Ad Nauseum, 1-2. Game 1, he went off turn 2. Game 2, I locked him with Trinisphere and he played nothing. Game 3, he went off turn 3 only because my Magus of the Moon slowed him down a turn.
Round 5, I lost to UW RIP/Helm Combo, 0-2. He basically drew Top, Counterbalance, backed with 1-2 Force of Will each game and cruised to victory, although it took forever. I probably should have tried to mull to a hand as good as his, but that's nearly impossible.
Round 6 vs. Sneak and Show, 0-2. Basically nothing I can do vs. Show and Tell into Griselbrand both games. I had many mulligans and really poor hands these games. This was kind of a bye for this opponent.
Round 7, I beat Merfolk 2-0. Probably Painter's best matchup. I crushed him in game 1, luring him to Daze while I had Simian Spirit Guide in hand. Game 2 was actually very close. He was really low, but built up an army. I had to double Firespout the board, clearing my own Imperial Painter too. Eventually with him at 1 and me at 2, he drew Mutavault. I then drew Magma Jet.
Round 8, I lost to RUG 0-2. He had 7 Nimble Mongoose in 2 games. I made a few mistakes, but he basically always had Force of Will and Nimble Mongooses did lethal. I actually checked his deck after the match to check for extra Mongooses, FoW, or Delver (played 4-3-3 in the last game). He was honest.
I feel like when I can play this deck decently, I can do very well.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)What does your list look like? I see you play magma jet and fire spout which are cards I would not have even considered. Both seem good but bolt > magma jet. Also with fire spout, are you playing 1 taiga or just using the red cost?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
On Thunderous Wrath
Keon on MODO
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Blood Moon
3 Chrome Mox
My SB is 3 Trinisphere, 4 Tormod's Crypt, 2 Faerie Macabre, 3 Firespout, 2 Shattering Spree, and 1 Viashino Heretic.
I actually put the Firespout because I was scared of Elves and thought it would be good vs. Maverick too. The Magma Jets are kind of a "Sensei's Divining Top." This deck is the non-Goblin Welder version.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
On Thunderous Wrath
Keon on MODO