T1 Kills are far more feasible when we run Skyshroud Cutter
T1 Forest Two Lotus Petals/Any other accel -> Food Chain -> Skyshroud Cutter- Griffin-> game
T1 Kills are far more feasible when we run Skyshroud Cutter
T1 Forest Two Lotus Petals/Any other accel -> Food Chain -> Skyshroud Cutter- Griffin-> game
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Pact seems bad with Emrakul, how do you pay the 5 on your next turn?
Maga and Emrakul seem like the best bombs to go for. Legacy decks can't beat hardcasted Emrakul, and Maga wins on the spot if he resolves, wheras Extractor Demon lets them live of they run Eldrazi or Progenitus.
Would Griselbrand work in this deck? Or do you generally have everything you need while you're going off anyway?
Maelstrom Wanderer could potentially be hilarious in this deck, lets you board swing the same turn you go off.
Would Griselbrand work in this deck? Or do you generally have everything you need while you're going off anyway?
If you got the griffin combo with a griselbrand in hand it's almost over. Food chaining to 8 mana without misthollow griffin is harder to obtain. But still, i think the bargain demonlord is worth a miser inclusion.
I think that going for a slightly control deck and aiming to combo off turn 4 or 5 would work well - we need to mana accel a bit - either birds or explore route, get some chain fetching, tutor and grove do that and some Griffin fetch, That 2 mana remove 3 cards draw a card card would work nice (forget the name ATM), with glimpse of nature u can dump pretty much your whole deck to get what u need - wincons being emrakul, maga, and potentially Lab maniac
Nope, Maga isn't a good win-condition, you'll need 23 manas (you'll have 23 manas if you go on infinite mana, but without infinite mana it's hard to go to 23) to kill with maga if your opponent does'nt counter it, and you can't keep counterspells to ensure Maga on board.
You want to keep your counterspells to ensure Food chain on board. You'll never have enough counterspells to place Food chain and then Maga
And just a question : why kill with Maga when it depends on counterspells of your opponent and a lot of mana when you can just kill with Emrakul which depends of nothing from your opponent ?
Just want to point out that you need 23 mana if they are not Stoneblade where there is a chance they could have gained life off of batterskull at some point.
Life gain isn't something to expect every game but it does happen in legacy.
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"Heterological" is heterological if and only if "heterological" is autological
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
I see we've evolved in different directions with this deck. Personally, I haven't been a big fan of the cantrip creatures after testing them. You can find my deck list in the article.
More dialogue is always good. I look forward to playing this deck again tonight. That's a good sign.
I've been a fan of this combo ever since I heard about Food Chain.
Having played versions that just combo'ed out, I found it to be too fragile. It's easily disrupted, and despite what was written in Tyler's article, I don't think it has an especially good matchup against tempo, or RUG. Their wastelands slow you down, and early creature removal can be tough to bounce back from.
I decided for a more controlling version where instead of accelerating, I'm just trying to disrupt them and perhaps protect my combo in the process.
The early drops are the nuts and bolts of the deck, disrupting when on board, and fueling the chain once they're done (fantastic synergy with Cavern as well, since naming "Wizard" covers all the relevant creature types). They create a nice chain by themselves, and spellstutter is an all star in a format that is defined by spells that cost one.
Initially I wanted more pieces, but the abundance of cantrips helps you get there, and so does Consecrated Sphinx.
Initially I liked the synergy with the combo and Tidespout Tyrant, but there's no reason to add another piece to the combo.
This version is slow, and doesn't intend to rely on the combo, but I've been having a blast playing it, and it runs pretty smooth insofar as I can drag the game out, and hit the silver bullet later. Plus I can think of no pleasure greater than casting Sprite on a Brainstorm.
I play G/w food chain packed with other ways to get giant creatures out, but I still play griffin. I run many evokers and card-draw-creatures.
Also, Griselbrand.
So does anyone play spoils? I saw it mentioned first page and skipped to most recent. That along with serum powder (also mentioned by the same poster) seems like the best way to get your combo pieces to me. Can someone give a rundown of the deck in it's current state?
Just asking why no one has considered running Oracle of Mul Daya or Azusa, Lost but Seeking to ditch the extra lands that you draw into and use that to cast your non creature spells. Brainstorm and the like. Also I am extremely interested in playing this and i cant wait to build it when I get home.
EDIT: I have been doing a bit mor elooking around and found that people want to branch out into possibly three solid colors. GUR, GUB, and GUW. I cant not give any reasons to run GUR so ill skip it. GUB gives you more hand disruption and sligtly more board control with Abrupt Decay, Thoughtseize, IoK, Hymm, etc. not bad but i think that the GUW steals it. W gives you Enlightend tutor, Blade splicer, Elsh norn, wall of omens, flickerwhisp, fiend hunter, and Oblivion ring plus any GW or UW spells you might want to run that I havent thought of.
All in all I think that if you want to go tri color the best one to use is White.
I call it Griffin Wheelhouse because recurring dead Misthollow Griffins with Deathrite Shaman is fun, and Manipulate Fate enables a decent midrange plan.
It seems like some of the latest lists in this thread are heading in this direction, but what do you guys think of the above list? (And just how good is Consecrated Sphinx?)
Chrome Mox? I know after you cast the Griffin (imprinted on the mox) you can no longer tap for mana, but after you cast Griffin you should have infinite mana, it speeds the combo up by a turn. Mulldrifter is another insane-o card with Food Chain. 2U to draw 2 and gain 6 mana is hot.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
What about adding Buring-Tree Emissary and Living Wish as a "toolbox", which would allow you to runa single recruiter in the SB and start going off to cast the spaghetti monster.
Where is Ancestral Knowledge? Seems like the perfect fit for this deck- puts Griffins in exile while potentially setting up future card selection...? Is it a possible alternative to Manipulate Fate, or is the Fate just better?
There was a BUG list at GPNJ that did pretty well. It made use of Genesis Hydra. I think the food griffon combo may be flexible enough to really thrive. Gonna be tinkering with a revised list. Would like some others thoughts. There's not a lot of information going around.
i think some amount of the decay in the maindeck is required based on the current metagame. We definitely want more ways to deal with delvers, swiftspears and equipment carrying nasties, and being able to buy a turn or two by decaying at the right moment can be the difference between winning and losing. I don't think I like the idea of the whole playset of strix, maybe you can make some space for a maindeck clique or two. 2 manipulate fate doesn't seem right, you might want 3-4 of that because of how good it is.
TIP: even with your griffins in the exile zone, go ahead and thin your deck some more with extra copies of manipulate fate (remove whatever you think you don't need, for example excess lands when you're sitting on a ton of land), so you have a higher chance of drawing gas. Also useful to reset after a brainstorm if you don't have a spare fetch sitting around.
4 Worldly Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Food Chain
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Spell Pierce
4 Thoughtseize
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
T1 Forest Two Lotus Petals/Any other accel -> Food Chain -> Skyshroud Cutter- Griffin-> game
The Food Chain 14
4 Food Chain
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Brainstorm
4 Lotus Petal
The Feeders 14
4 Skyshroud Cutter
4 Misthollow Griffin
2 Wispmare
4 Mulldrifter
The Kill 6
4 Maga, Taitor to Mortals
2 Extractor Demons
Counters 6
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
20 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
Does Trinisphere affect evoke costs?
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [R] Tropical Island
2 [ISD] Forest (1)
2 [ARC] Island (1)
4 [JGC] Windswept Heath
2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
// Creatures
4 [M12] Birds of Paradise
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
2 [SC] Fierce Empath
1 [LRW] AEthersnipe
2 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
1 [SOK] Maga, Traitor to Mortals
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Food Chain
2 [NE] Daze
2 [IN] Manipulate Fate
2 [M12] Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
Yep it sure does.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Maga and Emrakul seem like the best bombs to go for. Legacy decks can't beat hardcasted Emrakul, and Maga wins on the spot if he resolves, wheras Extractor Demon lets them live of they run Eldrazi or Progenitus.
Would Griselbrand work in this deck? Or do you generally have everything you need while you're going off anyway?
Maelstrom Wanderer could potentially be hilarious in this deck, lets you board swing the same turn you go off.
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
If you got the griffin combo with a griselbrand in hand it's almost over. Food chaining to 8 mana without misthollow griffin is harder to obtain. But still, i think the bargain demonlord is worth a miser inclusion.
Hakai Studios thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the awesome sig!
Some good Quotes from the guys at Gamez
Just want to point out that you need 23 mana if they are not Stoneblade where there is a chance they could have gained life off of batterskull at some point.
Life gain isn't something to expect every game but it does happen in legacy.
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
I've been posting on this deck over at The Source (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23711-Food-Chain-Combo/page7) and wrote an article about the deck yesterday: Legacy Griffins: Food Chain, Manipulate Fate and Fun
I see we've evolved in different directions with this deck. Personally, I haven't been a big fan of the cantrip creatures after testing them. You can find my deck list in the article.
More dialogue is always good. I look forward to playing this deck again tonight. That's a good sign.
Having played versions that just combo'ed out, I found it to be too fragile. It's easily disrupted, and despite what was written in Tyler's article, I don't think it has an especially good matchup against tempo, or RUG. Their wastelands slow you down, and early creature removal can be tough to bounce back from.
I decided for a more controlling version where instead of accelerating, I'm just trying to disrupt them and perhaps protect my combo in the process.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Vendilion Clique
3 Misthollow Griffin
2 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
Sorcery
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
Enchantment
4 Food Chain
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Tundra
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Meddling Mage
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
The early drops are the nuts and bolts of the deck, disrupting when on board, and fueling the chain once they're done (fantastic synergy with Cavern as well, since naming "Wizard" covers all the relevant creature types). They create a nice chain by themselves, and spellstutter is an all star in a format that is defined by spells that cost one.
Initially I wanted more pieces, but the abundance of cantrips helps you get there, and so does Consecrated Sphinx.
Initially I liked the synergy with the combo and Tidespout Tyrant, but there's no reason to add another piece to the combo.
This version is slow, and doesn't intend to rely on the combo, but I've been having a blast playing it, and it runs pretty smooth insofar as I can drag the game out, and hit the silver bullet later. Plus I can think of no pleasure greater than casting Sprite on a Brainstorm.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Also, Griselbrand.
sig by DarkNightCavalier
Avatar by perv90210.
Currently Running
Cryffyl
Play Legacy and EDH.
Modern is silly.
EDIT: I have been doing a bit mor elooking around and found that people want to branch out into possibly three solid colors. GUR, GUB, and GUW. I cant not give any reasons to run GUR so ill skip it. GUB gives you more hand disruption and sligtly more board control with Abrupt Decay, Thoughtseize, IoK, Hymm, etc. not bad but i think that the GUW steals it. W gives you Enlightend tutor, Blade splicer, Elsh norn, wall of omens, flickerwhisp, fiend hunter, and Oblivion ring plus any GW or UW spells you might want to run that I havent thought of.
All in all I think that if you want to go tri color the best one to use is White.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
1 Consecrated Sphinx
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Fierce Empath
3 Misthollow Griffin
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Ponder
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
1 Duplicant
2 Engineered Plague
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spell Pierce
1 Sylvan Library
2 Threads of Disloyalty
I call it Griffin Wheelhouse because recurring dead Misthollow Griffins with Deathrite Shaman is fun, and Manipulate Fate enables a decent midrange plan.
It seems like some of the latest lists in this thread are heading in this direction, but what do you guys think of the above list? (And just how good is Consecrated Sphinx?)
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
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I've been seeing multiple variants between MTGO and SCG Opens--there's a creature-heavy one in mainly UG (Shardless Agent, Noble Hierarch, Venser, V. Clique, Tidespout Tyrant) and a creature-lighter one in BUG (4 Deathrites, Baleful Strix, Fierce Empath). Both share Manipulate Fate.
TIP: even with your griffins in the exile zone, go ahead and thin your deck some more with extra copies of manipulate fate (remove whatever you think you don't need, for example excess lands when you're sitting on a ton of land), so you have a higher chance of drawing gas. Also useful to reset after a brainstorm if you don't have a spare fetch sitting around.