Aluren is actually my favorite combo deck well that & dirty kitty. As far as turn 2 aluren goes you can use any number of cards from ESG to BOP to Lanowar elves only thing that would possibly stop you is a FoW really
It's a blast for me to but I had to sell my Alurens to pay for other stuff at this point. I will work my way back into it but i want to have Japaneese ones before i build it again.
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"You can't stop the signal, Mel." - Mr. Universe
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
Just gold fishing online I have had an issue once in a while with taking too much life to dig mid-combo to find the Parasitic Strix (Living Wish). I might cut something to add another to the mainboard (either Wish or Strix).
The Spell Pierce I like as an additional protection for the turn to cast Aluren or to stop an early discard spell which would disrupt you too much. I like how the vast majority of the creatures pitch to force. Lim-Dul's Vault has been a good singleton (in gold fishing) as tutor and pitching to Force.
I added Creeping Tar-Pit as a way to deal with Humility+Elspeth, or Counterbalance+Sensei's Divining Top+Jace, the Mindsculptor. Not sure if the ETB tapped will be worth it though.
I think Ancient Tomb should be City of Traitors, but I dont own any. It is a fun deck, and I personally think it is as playable (possibly more) than Nic Fit which I played around this time last year. Should be a fun rogue deck.
I feel like the mana dorks (DRS BOP) are good in this deck. At worst they eat removal which reduces the chance of them having the removal for the actual combo turn.
I'd consider Maelstrom Pulse and/or Dismember maindeck as well as outs to aggro, without adding too many cards to be cascaded into with Shardless Agent.
I did run into aggro a decent amount of the time before Zoo got bad. During that time I also got walked on by maverick a LOT. That being said I decided to run 4 Slaughter Pact in the board to kill what hurt me the most. Gaddok Teeg. I dont know if hes a problem for you but hes a big 2/2 thorn in my side. You basically keep everything in hand until your ready to kill the teeg and then play aluren and go off right then and there. I dont know how much this will help but it did save me a few games against maverick at one point.
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"You can't stop the signal, Mel." - Mr. Universe
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
While DRS is good in some decks, it's my (untested) opinion that you would be better off slicing white all together adding more basics and running 4 Veteran Explorer.
The one good thing I can see from the tutor is that it acts like Aluren 5 and Shardless Agent number 4. I personally don't see that as being that big of a deal.
Also 20 lands is a bit light that needs a minimum of 2GG to go off, plus you aren't running any Sol lands either.
I'm not trying to tear your list apart because one of the great things about Aluren deck's is the fact that they all have to be tailored to their specific meta. Also with your "Wishboard" I think you may want to try and put a Volrath's Stronghold.
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"You can't stop the signal, Mel." - Mr. Universe
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
If you have a cavern harpy you shouldn't have any problems with removal. Play harpy, respond to trigger by bouncing and replaying, then in response to the next harpy trigger play your Parasitic Strix. Just stack enough triggers up to avoid the number of removal spells you expect and you won't lose it.
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...the lack of power of Divining Top is similarly obvious.
I just picked up the pieces to this deck and was wondering if any lists have done well recently, or of the deck became a non contender because of miracles or TNN. I can't decide if O should play this or Imperial Painter.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
Miracles and TNN have no bearing on this deck. You win at instant speed and for the most part ignore the red zone in favour of ETB effects.
I can't speak of recent placings, but I do believe it has seen some fringe play recently. It is far from the same environment the deck originally saw play in.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
"Listen closely as your radio plays
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
My conflict comes with living wish. I used to play it as redundancy copies of needed spells but recruiter has effectively filled that role and synergizes with aluren as well. I feel like the draw to living wish is the ability to make a streamlined mana base with the ability to play off colour cards via aluren. I'd say the big problem with aluren is an issue of speed vs consistency and how that interacts with the control aspect of the deck. It feels like something has to be sacrificed and it may be an issue of what is correct to sacrifice. Maybe a colour shift is the real answer?
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I'm goldfishing with this and it feels like Nic Fit with a combo finish but I'll need to run it in a tourny to know for sure. I've just always been a far of Wishes
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"Listen closely as your radio plays
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
I've been playing and tuning Aluren for close to a year at this point and I feel I have a pretty solid build for the maindeck configuration. I had a lackluster Top64 showing at the last SCG Oakland with it, but I've continued tuning and have top8'd the last two local CFB 1ks (5-0-1 and 4-1-1 with both draws being IDs) with my list.
I think you absolutely need Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay in your list. The deck needs to be able to play to a grindy gameplay when it isn't comboing, and that is really hard when you have no answer to a resolved threat or problem permanent. Similarly, DRS plays both into the grindy gameplan AND the combo gameplan by accelerating you into Aluren while also just generating dominant midrange value and incidental hate for decks like Reanimator and Dredge.
The sideboard listed is what I ran in the last tournament (on June 20th). The sideboard is in constant flux though. At side events at GP Vegas I was up to two Bloodbraid Elf and at the previous 1K I was running this SB configuration:
Historically I've also run and had good experiences with Virtue's Ruin as a way to help seal the Death & Taxes matchup. Before the printing of Minister of Pain and Reclamation Sage, I also was splashing White off a Savannah for Harmonic Sliver and Orzhov Pontiff in the SB, but the opportunity to run a second Underground Sea was worth more than the lingering advantage of Pontiff.
I'm still experimenting with the SB for ways to condense slots and generate an edge in postboard games verses Delver, and am currently considering the following for various reasons and roles (I'll try to go more in depth later when I have the chance):
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
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ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
1. Have you found it difficult to find Aluren with only brainstorm? Almost every list I have seen is running some number of intuition's.
2. Have you thought about Golgari Charm for the Sideboard. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere and its flexibility is really nice
3. Do you have a certain structure for your sideboard like X for graveyard strategics, X for Control, X for Combo, X for delver? with 15 one-of's there is definitely overlap between functions but I didn't know if you shoot for an over arching threshold of hate cards.
Sorry for all the questions. I am just starting to pick this deck up and I find the sideboard baffling. I played a different version at the SCG Balitimore PIQ and did pretty well (20th) but my sideboard was utter crap and cost me several games on the day. It felt like I was playing with a 6 card sideboard the whole day.
1. Have you found it difficult to find Aluren with only brainstorm? Almost every list I have seen is running some number of intuition's.
Honestly, I board out one or more copies of Aluren in a LOT of match-ups. The combo is great, but you're not hard-locked into using it to win. The 1/1 beatdown plan is disturbingly effective and is the key to having a good match-up against a lot of the decks people normally fear (Miracles, ANT, etc.). I also have found that I'm more likely to lose a game from drawing too many Aluren than I am for not drawing it.
As to Intuition specifically? I've avoided it since I almost always seem to have something better to be doing with my mana. Spending a whole turn doing nothing in order to set up a turn where a single FoW negates the whole line... it's not where I want to be with this deck (The utility of fetching triple cabal therapy though... that is something I've often longed for). Lastly, I really don't like making this deck suddenly vulnerable to things like Surgical Extraction when it currently mostly just laughs them off.
I will note that I've got much less experience with Intuition builds than with Living Wish builds. Living Wish was my initial build and it ended up being very clunky for the whole "time walk" issue described above. I always seemed to be opening myself to getting tempo'd out and I also was using my deck slots inefficiently due to the need to duplicate cards (like a second Harpy in the side for Wish to fetch).
2. Have you thought about Golgari Charm for the Sideboard. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere and its flexibility is really nice
I can definitely respect the flexibility. I've shied away from it because its -1/-1 mode is both very conditional and our deck probably will be hit by that condition more than the people we need it against. I've tried to spread its functionality through other selections that fit the deck a bit better (For example, Minister of Pain is 1-sided and tutorable with recruiter)
3. Do you have a certain structure for your sideboard like X for graveyard strategics, X for Control, X for Combo, X for delver? with 15 one-of's there is definitely overlap between functions but I didn't know if you shoot for an over arching threshold of hate cards.
A certain part of my SB I've essentially locked in:
1 Faerie Macabre -- This is your 5th piece of early grave hate (after the 4 Deathrite Shaman in the main), but it also turns all four recruiters into immediately accessible grave hate as well. It is especially nice because it ruins the plan of "just counter what they tutor for". My list has a pretty strong match-up against Reanimator, but I will admit I'm probably a slight dog to Dredge, and that's in large part because I'm not packing the tools to nuke the full yard at once.
1 Scavenging Ooze -- This has been instrumental in holding the ground verses fair decks, interfering with opposing Deathrites, and acting as general grave hate. It's not flashy but it's a huge boon to the list.
1 Force of Will -- We have an amazing combo match-up, and a large part of it is that we're a deck packing 4 FoW, 4 Therapy, and 4 DRS. It's best to keep that intact.
1 Null Rod -- I love how broad this is. The ground level is that it messes with both the vials and equipment of D&T, but it's an extraordinarily powerful effect that is relevant verses a large number of decks. Also important is that while it's not tutorable with Recruiter, it is cascadable off of Shardless Agent.
1 Tsabo's Web -- This is strong hate for Lands and D&T without weakening your primary plan. I've also sided it in verses Legends Miracles just to lock out Karakas. This is part of a theme in my SB where there are very high impact cards that are also very broad or hedge on their own utility (as with the draw trigger on this one). Even though they are a bunch of singletons, they give you a strong coordinated line of attack for dismantling opposing decks.
1 Sedraxis Alchemist -- General utility and catch-all, tutorable with recruiter. I'm not a huge fan of this kind of hedge in other formats, but Legacy is too broad not to come with the ability to deal with the unexpected.
1 Reclamation Sage -- One of the best recent printings for the deck. As always, fetchable with recruiter.
1 Izzet Staticaster -- Instant speed, fetchable with recruiter, bounceable for a second shot... this card is amazing.
1 Minister of Pain -- The extort trigger opens up an awkward line where your card can be stymied, but in general this card is a good way to deal with TNN and other X/1s (and it gets past Mother of Runes too)
All of the above 9 cards are more or less locked in. I hedge very hard against D&T because they should be able to demolish you if they understand the match-up and that is solvable with careful boarding. I am packing a diverse spread of hate, but it should be noticeable in how things overlap and work together. It also magnifies the "I have no idea what's going on" sense that many opponents have. When someone needs to read and parse 15 unfamiliar cards in a match, it's a big deal, and its even greater when they have absolutely no clue what else could be coming.
Fire Imp -- This is the next closest to the locked-in items. It's pretty nice to be able to snipe things like DRS and Delver of Secrets with this. Bouncing it with Dream Stalker is very strong. It's in constant contention with Bone Shredder, but killing DRS keeps being more relevant than the upsides of the shredder.
And finally we get down to the rest of the board. Bloodbraid Elf -- It takes some serious effort for this deck to deal with a resolved JTMS. I wanted something that could deal with it and also advance our value gameplan at the same time. Bloodbraid is what I'm currently testing and shows some promise. Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse/Kolaghan's Command -- I think I'm overloaded on these. I'm probably going to pare things down to just two of these. They don't all go in for the same match-ups, but I often recognize that I have more options to board in here than slots to board out. Decay is better verses countermagic; Pulse deals with stuff like JTMS, Elesh Norn, and tokens better; Kolaghan's Command offers the greatest flexibility in effect but restricts what it can deal with most severely, it also is the one most likely to generate a 2-for-1. Pernicious Deed -- A catch-all. Also, I really am growing to despise TNN. It is very awkward that you're likely sacrificing your board at the same time. As with the Decay/Pulse/Command, this is probably another aspect of being overloaded on that kind of effect. Engineered Plague -- Goblins is mystifyingly a big deck locally. Also, I still really hate TNN. It's nice that it gives splash hate to elves as well.
Hopefully that gives an idea of where I'm coming from. I'm not locked in on a set number of cards per match-up, but my board aims to be relatively redundant without sacrificing versatility.
Sorry for all the questions. I am just starting to pick this deck up and I find the sideboard baffling. I played a different version at the SCG Balitimore PIQ and did pretty well (20th) but my sideboard was utter crap and cost me several games on the day. It felt like I was playing with a 6 card sideboard the whole day.
I am really happy to be able to help answer them. I absolutely love piloting this deck and I'm thrilled to be able to discuss and compare approaches with other pilots.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Great Googly Moogly that’s a lot. It took me a couple of pass trough’s to get all the wisdom.
So in stark contrast to your list I am not running Deathrite Shaman. Instead I am running a Veteran Explorer Shell (more on this below) which makes my options for sideboard a little restrictive because I can’t rely on red mana with just a single Taiga.
My Meta is pretty hostle to Deathrite right now as deck will either ignore it by going faster or be better Deathrite decks like BUG/Grixis whatever. There is also a tremendous amount of Lands in my Regional Meta and as such a bunch of blood moon decks which is why I went down the Veteran Explorer path. Explorer allows you to ramp past the mana disruption of Lands in a lot of case and is naturally insulated from Blood moon because of the basic land qty. In addition it allows you to go off on turn two with the help of Phyrexian Tower which can allow me to race to some extent Storm.
I went 6-2 in matches losing to both R/G Lands and Infect to both friends :/ I would have probably made top 16 with better breakers if they won the last round but that didn’t happen.
What came out of my experience with that tournament was I really wanted Baleful Strix and was less than impressed with Coiling Oracle. My Mana base was all screwed up as you really only need 7 basic lands to support Veteran Explorer properly. I am unsold on Diabolic Intent, when it was good it was reallllllly good. I usually shaved a Intent after sideboarding which might have been wrong. . Sideboard was garbage and needed to be complexly reworked
Changes that I am going to try
-x number of coiling oracle
-1 Reclamation sage
-2 Forest
-1 Phyrexian Tower
+x number of Baleful Strix
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Verdant Catacombs
+1 Tropical Island
I am unsure about the QTY of Stix and Oracle. I am thinking 3 Strix/1 Oracle split to start then revise the numbers as I go. Flying and Deathtouch is so relevant in this current Global Legacy metagame. Being able to block delver, Clique, Wisp or by a turn against a Marit Lage Token is a huge. Being able to exchange with Goyf or Knight is relevant also and Oracle isn't able to do any of that.
Pardon my noobishness, but I'm just getting into Legacy and I played a few matches on cockatrice with ExpiredRascals' list at the top of this page, but I feel like I'm completely missing the point of Dream Stalker. Is it part of the combo like Cavern Harpy? How do you combo with it?
Even with substantial DRS hate, I have a hard time giving it up. It's consistently been a powerhouse for me whenever it sticks. I suppose that if a preponderance of Punishing Fires were running around my meta, I might reconsider, but even still...
I'm still not of the opinion that this archetype is best off just gunning single-mindedly for the combo. Other decks combo sooner and cheaper than ours and with fewer dedicated combo slots. The strength of Aluren is that we can play a very strong attrition game plan either as a prelude to or instead of the combo and that our combo pieces naturally facilitate this. It traps the opponent into fighting either battle with non-ideal or outright inadequate tools.
Pardon my noobishness, but I'm just getting into Legacy and I played a few matches on cockatrice with ExpiredRascals' list at the top of this page, but I feel like I'm completely missing the point of Dream Stalker. Is it part of the combo like Cavern Harpy? How do you combo with it?
In summary, the principle role of Dream Stalker is to convert Cavern Harpy bounces into Imperial Recruiter bounces. But it also represents the ability to reuse any CIP ability and a way to buy time against Batterskull, Tarmogoyf, and other aggressive ground creatures. These non-combo roles are not why we run the card, but they come up frequently when piloting the deck. Obviously you sometimes combo without it (like when you have Cavern Harpy and a CIP critter to dig, but no Imperial Recruiter on hand), but Dream Stalker isn't bad to have even in those situations.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Thank you so much! Looks like I have some practicing to do.
Oh, and in case it wasn't clear: an important thing to remember is that the only time your board is vulnerable with the full combo assembled is when Cavern Harpy is trapped on the stack. This is why it's often nice to stock up on Dream Stalkers in hand if you have enough life to do so (and if doing so doesn't make you die to Lightning Bolt). Dream Stalker functions as additional available protective bounces in this case.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
You really want Veteran Explorer on turn one or two as that enables the turn two and three kills, the Green Sun’s Zenith does not support that as it actually doesn’t speed you up at all. I think what makes GSZ/Explorer powerful in the Nic Fit deck is that they can abuse the extra land drops by casting Primeval Titan or some other giant 5-6 drop monster or you can GSZ for the bigger monsters. My current build curve actually tops out with Aluren so less casting multiple spells a turn I have limited uses for a ton of extra lands.
The reason that I started with the Veteran Explorer shell was because I want to play with a lot of basic lands. It’s really, really hostile in my region for manabases and this stabilizes that. The downside of Veteran Explorer is that you are more reliant on the combo because Explorer doesn’t have the same sort of reach as DRS which is a real cost. Having DRS allows for you to grind better and really can use the creature plan as a real way to close out the game as well as fixes you fourth color of mana pretty well.
Want to try the DRS build you have, and I am slowing picking up the pieces. I want to play my build in 3-4 weekly tournaments first though so I can get a real good feel how the games go and then start really making adjustments.
The think with Coiling Oracle which really hurt me was the lack of flying. It sucks having 2 oracles in play and getting killed with Delver, Clique, Avenger or a Marit Lage token or the inability to attack a planeswalker. That evasion really makes a huge difference. The Card is nice, but not as important to me as the evasion and deathtouch. If I was running a Shardless Agent I would keep at least two in my deck though as it is a great target to cascade into
Riftsweeper was week and will get cut for something a little more relevant. Maybe a Magus of the Moon.
Have you tried Academy Rector? what are your thoughts on the old lady?
@FeloniousCrap,
Keep in mind that the ideal sequencing during the combo is to play the harpy first put the gating trigger on the stack then cast Parasitic Strix. This allows you to play around removal as long as you are not at 1 life
You really want Veteran Explorer on turn one or two as that enables the turn two and three kills, the Green Sun’s Zenith does not support that as it actually doesn’t speed you up at all. I think what makes GSZ/Explorer powerful in the Nic Fit deck is that they can abuse the extra land drops by casting Primeval Titan or some other giant 5-6 drop monster or you can GSZ for the bigger monsters. My current build curve actually tops out with Aluren so less casting multiple spells a turn I have limited uses for a ton of extra lands.
The reason that I started with the Veteran Explorer shell was because I want to play with a lot of basic lands. It’s really, really hostile in my region for manabases and this stabilizes that. The downside of Veteran Explorer is that you are more reliant on the combo because Explorer doesn’t have the same sort of reach as DRS which is a real cost. Having DRS allows for you to grind better and really can use the creature plan as a real way to close out the game as well as fixes you fourth color of mana pretty well.
Want to try the DRS build you have, and I am slowing picking up the pieces. I want to play my build in 3-4 weekly tournaments first though so I can get a real good feel how the games go and then start really making adjustments.
Yeah, that extra fixing has definitely been huge for me. I really look forward to your feedback on my list after you give it a whirl.
On a related note, I was looking over your list and noticed that you seemed super tight on red mana (1 taiga and 4 fetches that hit it, no basic mountain for Veteran Explorer to get, no DRS to fix red). Have you essentially intentionally conceded the ability to cast non-combo Imperial Recruiters? I'm contrasting this to my list with 10 fetches, 2 duals, and 4 DRS (essentially totaling 3x as many sources as you have), which hits red reasonably consistently but, even still, I sometimes need to stretch to do so.
The think with Coiling Oracle which really hurt me was the lack of flying. It sucks having 2 oracles in play and getting killed with Delver, Clique, Avenger or a Marit Lage token or the inability to attack a planeswalker. That evasion really makes a huge difference. The Card is nice, but not as important to me as the evasion and deathtouch. If I was running a Shardless Agent I would keep at least two in my deck though as it is a great target to cascade into
I definitely recommend some number of Baleful Strix, but I will say that in my experience, Oracle has been the better card. I heartily endorse a 3-2 split in favour of Oracle. This comes with a caveat however -- I don't have the same ramp package that you do, so Coiling Oracle is actually a relevant and non-trivial mode of ramp in my build, and I end up sac'ing my 2-drop to therapy very frequently. These two aspects make the deathtouch/evasion on strix of much lower relevance in the context of my build and experience.
And as a second caveat, I need to admit that Delver is not by any stretch my best match-up. It's got some play to it, definitely, but it is certainly possible that my configuration is responsible for me being a slight dog verses delver.
Riftsweeper was week and will get cut for something a little more relevant. Maybe a Magus of the Moon.
Glad to hear our experiences with Riftsweeper align.
What decks would you want Magus of the Moon against? Even with just my 4 basics, I'd considered it in the past but discarded it (on theory-crafting alone: too slow to get when relevant, probably doesn't come down before T4, and for me it requires a fetch-heavy hand to get basics to function on in advance).
Have you tried Academy Rector? what are your thoughts on the old lady?
She'd been on my radar when I had the white splash. I actually was considering her as a potential Birthing Pod package, lol. She ended up seeming too clunky, especially with the ability of opposing DRS to stymie her trigger and the need to have a cabal therapy (in my list, since I don't have Phyrexian Tower) if it was in the absence of pod.
The pod package I deemed too cute without even trying it, but the concept was that it could pod a 2CMC dude into Recruiter (fetching another Recruiter to hand), then pod Recruiter into rector and then either sac rector to cabal therapy or podrector into nothing, but the rector trigger would fetch Aluren and you'd just combo.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
You really want Veteran Explorer on turn one or two as that enables the turn two and three kills, the Green Sun’s Zenith does not support that as it actually doesn’t speed you up at all. I think what makes GSZ/Explorer powerful in the Nic Fit deck is that they can abuse the extra land drops by casting Primeval Titan or some other giant 5-6 drop monster or you can GSZ for the bigger monsters. My current build curve actually tops out with Aluren so less casting multiple spells a turn I have limited uses for a ton of extra lands.
The reason that I started with the Veteran Explorer shell was because I want to play with a lot of basic lands. It’s really, really hostile in my region for manabases and this stabilizes that. The downside of Veteran Explorer is that you are more reliant on the combo because Explorer doesn’t have the same sort of reach as DRS which is a real cost. Having DRS allows for you to grind better and really can use the creature plan as a real way to close out the game as well as fixes you fourth color of mana pretty well.
Want to try the DRS build you have, and I am slowing picking up the pieces. I want to play my build in 3-4 weekly tournaments first though so I can get a real good feel how the games go and then start really making adjustments.
Yeah, that extra fixing has definitely been huge for me. I really look forward to your feedback on my list after you give it a whirl.
On a related note, I was looking over your list and noticed that you seemed super tight on red mana (1 taiga and 4 fetches that hit it, no basic mountain for Veteran Explorer to get, no DRS to fix red). Have you essentially intentionally conceded the ability to cast non-combo Imperial Recruiters? I'm contrasting this to my list with 10 fetches, 2 duals, and 4 DRS (essentially totaling 3x as many sources as you have), which hits red reasonably consistently but, even still, I sometimes need to stretch to do so.
I am light on red mana, I have 6 fetches and one taiga. Why my manabase is structured this way is because if I am hard casting Imperial Recruiter more than once I am probably losing the game. My current build is more set up around resolving the combo, I don’t don’t have the same ability to grind out games like your deck does. By eschewing Shardless Agent and Deathrite Shaman I lose the ability to really get the beatdown on and stretch for that extra damage as well as getting additional card advantage. But what I get by having my deck built this way is consistency in the combo, and a streamlined deck configuration for game 1.
The reason that I am not running a single mountain is because I have no way to fetch it beside Veteran Explorer. I don’t ever really want to see a mountain in my opening hand as it can’t cast anything besides Imperial Recruiter which as a creature to hard cast in legacy is pretty underwhelming.
The think with Coiling Oracle which really hurt me was the lack of flying. It sucks having 2 oracles in play and getting killed with Delver, Clique, Avenger or a Marit Lage token or the inability to attack a planeswalker. That evasion really makes a huge difference. The Card is nice, but not as important to me as the evasion and deathtouch. If I was running a Shardless Agent I would keep at least two in my deck though as it is a great target to cascade into
I definitely recommend some number of Baleful Strix, but I will say that in my experience, Oracle has been the better card. I heartily endorse a 3-2 split in favour of Oracle. This comes with a caveat however -- I don't have the same ramp package that you do, so Coiling Oracle is actually a relevant and non-trivial mode of ramp in my build, and I end up sac'ing my 2-drop to therapy very frequently. These two aspects make the deathtouch/evasion on strix of much lower relevance in the context of my build and experience.
And as a second caveat, I need to admit that Delver is not by any stretch my best match-up. It's got some play to it, definitely, but it is certainly possible that my configuration is responsible for me being a slight dog verses delver.
And that makes sense for what your strategy is. Your build straddles the fence between being this midrange value deck and a combo deck. I get the feel that you’re looking for the incremental value gains first and if the combo comes up or you can stick an Aluren then you can go crazy. If you don’t its not a big deal because you still have this 2-1 as a primary plan.
My build is much more combo focused and Oracle and Explorer overlap a lot while the strix has enough separation between role and function of Explorer. I was going to try a split between Strix and Oracle I am just not sure if it should be 3/2 Oracle or 3/2 Strix, I will probably start with three Oracle but might move to three Strix just to find what feels right. Strix is much better in the Delver matchup though which is pretty prevalent around here.
Riftsweeper was week and will get cut for something a little more relevant. Maybe a Magus of the Moon.
Glad to hear our experiences with Riftsweeper align.
What decks would you want Magus of the Moon against? Even with just my 4 basics, I'd considered it in the past but discarded it (on theory-crafting alone: too slow to get when relevant, probably doesn't come down before T4, and for me it requires a fetch-heavy hand to get basics to function on in advance).
BUG decks, Land Decks etc. If you can stick it you will usually just win the game but I don’t think I can support it though.
Have you tried Academy Rector? what are your thoughts on the old lady?
She'd been on my radar when I had the white splash. I actually was considering her as a potential Birthing Pod package, lol. She ended up seeming too clunky, especially with the ability of opposing DRS to stymie her trigger and the need to have a cabal therapy (in my list, since I don't have Phyrexian Tower) if it was in the absence of pod.
The pod package I deemed too cute without even trying it, but the concept was that it could pod a 2CMC dude into Recruiter (fetching another Recruiter to hand), then pod Recruiter into rector and then either sac rector to cabal therapy or podrector into nothing, but the rector trigger would fetch Aluren and you'd just combo.
That seems really slow, but cool. I think I would just run two Towers with her to facilitate turning her on as birthing pod just seems really cute. I would probabaly have to rework the whole deck though and I don't think it is worth it.
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If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Cavern Harpy
4x Coiling Oracle
1x Baleful Strix
4x Shardless Agent
1x Parasitic Strix
4x Aluren
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Living Wish
4x Brainstorm
1x Spell Pierce
1x Echoing Truth
1x Lim-Dûl’s Vault
2x Intuition
4x Force of Will
1x Bayou
2x Underground Sea
1x Creeping Tar-Pit
2x Forest
2x Island
1x Swamp
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Ancient Tomb
1x Cavern Harpy
1x Parasitic Strix
1x Stern Proctor
1x Riftsweeper
1x Eternal Witness
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Krosan Grip
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Abrupt Decay
This is my first go around with this Shardless Aluren deck.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
Just gold fishing online I have had an issue once in a while with taking too much life to dig mid-combo to find the Parasitic Strix (Living Wish). I might cut something to add another to the mainboard (either Wish or Strix).
The Spell Pierce I like as an additional protection for the turn to cast Aluren or to stop an early discard spell which would disrupt you too much. I like how the vast majority of the creatures pitch to force. Lim-Dul's Vault has been a good singleton (in gold fishing) as tutor and pitching to Force.
I added Creeping Tar-Pit as a way to deal with Humility+Elspeth, or Counterbalance+Sensei's Divining Top+Jace, the Mindsculptor. Not sure if the ETB tapped will be worth it though.
I think Ancient Tomb should be City of Traitors, but I dont own any. It is a fun deck, and I personally think it is as playable (possibly more) than Nic Fit which I played around this time last year. Should be a fun rogue deck.
I feel like the mana dorks (DRS BOP) are good in this deck. At worst they eat removal which reduces the chance of them having the removal for the actual combo turn.
I'd consider Maelstrom Pulse and/or Dismember maindeck as well as outs to aggro, without adding too many cards to be cascaded into with Shardless Agent.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
The one good thing I can see from the tutor is that it acts like Aluren 5 and Shardless Agent number 4. I personally don't see that as being that big of a deal.
Also 20 lands is a bit light that needs a minimum of 2GG to go off, plus you aren't running any Sol lands either.
I'm not trying to tear your list apart because one of the great things about Aluren deck's is the fact that they all have to be tailored to their specific meta. Also with your "Wishboard" I think you may want to try and put a Volrath's Stronghold.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
I can't speak of recent placings, but I do believe it has seen some fringe play recently. It is far from the same environment the deck originally saw play in.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
It seems solid and worth a try. Maybe make room for Coiling Oracle?
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
I'm digging up this post because i fell in love with this deck and i want to share my feelings :
After reading this Primer, I totally changed my version to something more effective :
4 Aluren
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Dream Stalker
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Man-o'-War
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
Toolbox
1 Eternal Witness
4 Baleful Strix
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Brainstorm
3 Preordain
Control
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
Lands
1 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga
4 Aluren
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Imperial Recruiter
2 Man-o'-War
1 Parasitic Strix
Toolbox
2 Eternal Witness
4 Shardless Agent
4 Living Wish
Draw
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Coiling Oracle
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Force of Will
Lands
1 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Drake Familiar
1 Eternal Witness
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Man-o'-War
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Spellskite
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Bone Shredder
I think you absolutely need Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay in your list. The deck needs to be able to play to a grindy gameplay when it isn't comboing, and that is really hard when you have no answer to a resolved threat or problem permanent. Similarly, DRS plays both into the grindy gameplan AND the combo gameplan by accelerating you into Aluren while also just generating dominant midrange value and incidental hate for decks like Reanimator and Dredge.
3 Coiling Oracle
2 Baleful Strix
2 Shardless Agent
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Dream Stalker
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
4 Aluren
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Force of Will
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Null Rod
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Force of Will
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Sedraxis Alchemist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Fire Imp
1 Minister of Pain
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Scavenging Ooze
The sideboard listed is what I ran in the last tournament (on June 20th). The sideboard is in constant flux though. At side events at GP Vegas I was up to two Bloodbraid Elf and at the previous 1K I was running this SB configuration:
1 Null Rod
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Engineered Plague
1 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
1 Minister of Pain
1 Fire Imp
1 Bone Shredder
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Sedraxis Alchemist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Scavenging Ooze
Historically I've also run and had good experiences with Virtue's Ruin as a way to help seal the Death & Taxes matchup. Before the printing of Minister of Pain and Reclamation Sage, I also was splashing White off a Savannah for Harmonic Sliver and Orzhov Pontiff in the SB, but the opportunity to run a second Underground Sea was worth more than the lingering advantage of Pontiff.
I'm still experimenting with the SB for ways to condense slots and generate an edge in postboard games verses Delver, and am currently considering the following for various reasons and roles (I'll try to go more in depth later when I have the chance):
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
1. Have you found it difficult to find Aluren with only brainstorm? Almost every list I have seen is running some number of intuition's.
2. Have you thought about Golgari Charm for the Sideboard. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere and its flexibility is really nice
3. Do you have a certain structure for your sideboard like X for graveyard strategics, X for Control, X for Combo, X for delver? with 15 one-of's there is definitely overlap between functions but I didn't know if you shoot for an over arching threshold of hate cards.
Sorry for all the questions. I am just starting to pick this deck up and I find the sideboard baffling. I played a different version at the SCG Balitimore PIQ and did pretty well (20th) but my sideboard was utter crap and cost me several games on the day. It felt like I was playing with a 6 card sideboard the whole day.
Honestly, I board out one or more copies of Aluren in a LOT of match-ups. The combo is great, but you're not hard-locked into using it to win. The 1/1 beatdown plan is disturbingly effective and is the key to having a good match-up against a lot of the decks people normally fear (Miracles, ANT, etc.). I also have found that I'm more likely to lose a game from drawing too many Aluren than I am for not drawing it.
As to Intuition specifically? I've avoided it since I almost always seem to have something better to be doing with my mana. Spending a whole turn doing nothing in order to set up a turn where a single FoW negates the whole line... it's not where I want to be with this deck (The utility of fetching triple cabal therapy though... that is something I've often longed for). Lastly, I really don't like making this deck suddenly vulnerable to things like Surgical Extraction when it currently mostly just laughs them off.
I will note that I've got much less experience with Intuition builds than with Living Wish builds. Living Wish was my initial build and it ended up being very clunky for the whole "time walk" issue described above. I always seemed to be opening myself to getting tempo'd out and I also was using my deck slots inefficiently due to the need to duplicate cards (like a second Harpy in the side for Wish to fetch).
I can definitely respect the flexibility. I've shied away from it because its -1/-1 mode is both very conditional and our deck probably will be hit by that condition more than the people we need it against. I've tried to spread its functionality through other selections that fit the deck a bit better (For example, Minister of Pain is 1-sided and tutorable with recruiter)
A certain part of my SB I've essentially locked in:
1 Faerie Macabre -- This is your 5th piece of early grave hate (after the 4 Deathrite Shaman in the main), but it also turns all four recruiters into immediately accessible grave hate as well. It is especially nice because it ruins the plan of "just counter what they tutor for". My list has a pretty strong match-up against Reanimator, but I will admit I'm probably a slight dog to Dredge, and that's in large part because I'm not packing the tools to nuke the full yard at once.
1 Scavenging Ooze -- This has been instrumental in holding the ground verses fair decks, interfering with opposing Deathrites, and acting as general grave hate. It's not flashy but it's a huge boon to the list.
1 Force of Will -- We have an amazing combo match-up, and a large part of it is that we're a deck packing 4 FoW, 4 Therapy, and 4 DRS. It's best to keep that intact.
1 Null Rod -- I love how broad this is. The ground level is that it messes with both the vials and equipment of D&T, but it's an extraordinarily powerful effect that is relevant verses a large number of decks. Also important is that while it's not tutorable with Recruiter, it is cascadable off of Shardless Agent.
1 Tsabo's Web -- This is strong hate for Lands and D&T without weakening your primary plan. I've also sided it in verses Legends Miracles just to lock out Karakas. This is part of a theme in my SB where there are very high impact cards that are also very broad or hedge on their own utility (as with the draw trigger on this one). Even though they are a bunch of singletons, they give you a strong coordinated line of attack for dismantling opposing decks.
1 Sedraxis Alchemist -- General utility and catch-all, tutorable with recruiter. I'm not a huge fan of this kind of hedge in other formats, but Legacy is too broad not to come with the ability to deal with the unexpected.
1 Reclamation Sage -- One of the best recent printings for the deck. As always, fetchable with recruiter.
1 Izzet Staticaster -- Instant speed, fetchable with recruiter, bounceable for a second shot... this card is amazing.
1 Minister of Pain -- The extort trigger opens up an awkward line where your card can be stymied, but in general this card is a good way to deal with TNN and other X/1s (and it gets past Mother of Runes too)
All of the above 9 cards are more or less locked in. I hedge very hard against D&T because they should be able to demolish you if they understand the match-up and that is solvable with careful boarding. I am packing a diverse spread of hate, but it should be noticeable in how things overlap and work together. It also magnifies the "I have no idea what's going on" sense that many opponents have. When someone needs to read and parse 15 unfamiliar cards in a match, it's a big deal, and its even greater when they have absolutely no clue what else could be coming.
Fire Imp -- This is the next closest to the locked-in items. It's pretty nice to be able to snipe things like DRS and Delver of Secrets with this. Bouncing it with Dream Stalker is very strong. It's in constant contention with Bone Shredder, but killing DRS keeps being more relevant than the upsides of the shredder.
And finally we get down to the rest of the board.
Bloodbraid Elf -- It takes some serious effort for this deck to deal with a resolved JTMS. I wanted something that could deal with it and also advance our value gameplan at the same time. Bloodbraid is what I'm currently testing and shows some promise.
Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse/Kolaghan's Command -- I think I'm overloaded on these. I'm probably going to pare things down to just two of these. They don't all go in for the same match-ups, but I often recognize that I have more options to board in here than slots to board out. Decay is better verses countermagic; Pulse deals with stuff like JTMS, Elesh Norn, and tokens better; Kolaghan's Command offers the greatest flexibility in effect but restricts what it can deal with most severely, it also is the one most likely to generate a 2-for-1.
Pernicious Deed -- A catch-all. Also, I really am growing to despise TNN. It is very awkward that you're likely sacrificing your board at the same time. As with the Decay/Pulse/Command, this is probably another aspect of being overloaded on that kind of effect.
Engineered Plague -- Goblins is mystifyingly a big deck locally. Also, I still really hate TNN. It's nice that it gives splash hate to elves as well.
Hopefully that gives an idea of where I'm coming from. I'm not locked in on a set number of cards per match-up, but my board aims to be relatively redundant without sacrificing versatility.
I am really happy to be able to help answer them. I absolutely love piloting this deck and I'm thrilled to be able to discuss and compare approaches with other pilots.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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So in stark contrast to your list I am not running Deathrite Shaman. Instead I am running a Veteran Explorer Shell (more on this below) which makes my options for sideboard a little restrictive because I can’t rely on red mana with just a single Taiga.
My Meta is pretty hostle to Deathrite right now as deck will either ignore it by going faster or be better Deathrite decks like BUG/Grixis whatever. There is also a tremendous amount of Lands in my Regional Meta and as such a bunch of blood moon decks which is why I went down the Veteran Explorer path. Explorer allows you to ramp past the mana disruption of Lands in a lot of case and is naturally insulated from Blood moon because of the basic land qty. In addition it allows you to go off on turn two with the help of Phyrexian Tower which can allow me to race to some extent Storm.
My List for SCG Baltimore is the following
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Coiling Oracle
2 Dream Stalker
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Aluren
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Intuition
2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
5 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Krosan Grip
2 Golgari Charm
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Duress
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Minister of Pain
I went 6-2 in matches losing to both R/G Lands and Infect to both friends :/ I would have probably made top 16 with better breakers if they won the last round but that didn’t happen.
What came out of my experience with that tournament was I really wanted Baleful Strix and was less than impressed with Coiling Oracle. My Mana base was all screwed up as you really only need 7 basic lands to support Veteran Explorer properly. I am unsold on Diabolic Intent, when it was good it was reallllllly good. I usually shaved a Intent after sideboarding which might have been wrong. . Sideboard was garbage and needed to be complexly reworked
Changes that I am going to try
-x number of coiling oracle
-1 Reclamation sage
-2 Forest
-1 Phyrexian Tower
+x number of Baleful Strix
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Verdant Catacombs
+1 Tropical Island
I am unsure about the QTY of Stix and Oracle. I am thinking 3 Strix/1 Oracle split to start then revise the numbers as I go. Flying and Deathtouch is so relevant in this current Global Legacy metagame. Being able to block delver, Clique, Wisp or by a turn against a Marit Lage Token is a huge. Being able to exchange with Goyf or Knight is relevant also and Oracle isn't able to do any of that.
New sideboard looks something like this:
2 Korsan Grip
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Sedraxis Alchemist
1 Llawan, King Squid
1 Riftsweeper
1 Yixlid Jailer
I have been thinking of trying Magus of the Moon as it creates free wins in some of the more grinder matchups
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
I've always been interested in Veteran Explorer as an option for this deck. If you're not running Shardless Agent, do you really need 4 Veteran Explorers? Would you perhaps be better off with a Green Sun's Zenith package and only 1-2 Veteran Explorer? This would also let you run fewer basics (as in just 4 or 5).
Even with substantial DRS hate, I have a hard time giving it up. It's consistently been a powerhouse for me whenever it sticks. I suppose that if a preponderance of Punishing Fires were running around my meta, I might reconsider, but even still...
I'm still not of the opinion that this archetype is best off just gunning single-mindedly for the combo. Other decks combo sooner and cheaper than ours and with fewer dedicated combo slots. The strength of Aluren is that we can play a very strong attrition game plan either as a prelude to or instead of the combo and that our combo pieces naturally facilitate this. It traps the opponent into fighting either battle with non-ideal or outright inadequate tools.
One thing I'll mention about Coiling Oracle is that it's been very relevant for me that it dodges Spirit of the Labyrinth/Chains of Mephistopheles (and to a lesser extent, Notion Thief). Baleful Strix can have its utility curbed by these cards unlike Coiling Oracle.
Lastly, how has your experience been with Riftsweeper? I used to run it, but I kept finding that it wasn't really coming up as relevant in any game.
The "typical" combo goes like this:
Start: Aluren in play, Imperial Recruiter in hand.
Cast Imperial Recruiter, fetch Imperial Recruiter.
Repeat two or three times. You now have 3-4 Imperial Recruiter in play.
The final Imperial Recruiter trigger should fetch Dream Stalker.
If you have any Cabal Therapies in the grave and you're not forced to be going off at instant speed, you may want to doubly confirm here that you're not walking into Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast or something similar here.
Cast Dream Stalker, bounce Imperial Recruiter. Note that the multiple Imperial Recruiters in play mean that you are protected against most all common removal that isn't Pyrokinesis or Terminus because Dream Stalker doesn't target.
Cast Imperial Recruiter, fetch Dream Stalker.
Cast Dream Stalker, bounce Imperial Recruiter.
Cast Imperial Recruiter, fetch Cavern Harpy.
Cast Cavern Harpy, bounce Dream Stalker.
Cast Dream Stalker, bounce Imperial Recruiter.
Cast Imperial Recruiter, fetch Parasitic Strix.
Depending on your life total here, you may use Cavern Harpy to bounce your two Dream Stalkers to hand to provide extra protection.
Stack one or more Cavern Harpy bounce triggers (you can stack multiple by paying one life to bounce it in response to its trigger and then cast it again with the trigger still on the stack). Leave Cavern Harpy in play with those trigger(s) on the stack.
Cast Parasitic Strix. Let the drain trigger resolve. Let a Cavern Harpy trigger resolve to bounce Parasitic Strix.
Repeat as necessary. Note that you're able to pay one life to bounce Cavern Harpy and recast it to save anything on the board at any time. This is even more true if you're able to stock your Dream Stalkers in hand, since they represent additional bounce back-up.
In summary, the principle role of Dream Stalker is to convert Cavern Harpy bounces into Imperial Recruiter bounces. But it also represents the ability to reuse any CIP ability and a way to buy time against Batterskull, Tarmogoyf, and other aggressive ground creatures. These non-combo roles are not why we run the card, but they come up frequently when piloting the deck. Obviously you sometimes combo without it (like when you have Cavern Harpy and a CIP critter to dig, but no Imperial Recruiter on hand), but Dream Stalker isn't bad to have even in those situations.
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Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Oh, and in case it wasn't clear: an important thing to remember is that the only time your board is vulnerable with the full combo assembled is when Cavern Harpy is trapped on the stack. This is why it's often nice to stock up on Dream Stalkers in hand if you have enough life to do so (and if doing so doesn't make you die to Lightning Bolt). Dream Stalker functions as additional available protective bounces in this case.
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You really want Veteran Explorer on turn one or two as that enables the turn two and three kills, the Green Sun’s Zenith does not support that as it actually doesn’t speed you up at all. I think what makes GSZ/Explorer powerful in the Nic Fit deck is that they can abuse the extra land drops by casting Primeval Titan or some other giant 5-6 drop monster or you can GSZ for the bigger monsters. My current build curve actually tops out with Aluren so less casting multiple spells a turn I have limited uses for a ton of extra lands.
The reason that I started with the Veteran Explorer shell was because I want to play with a lot of basic lands. It’s really, really hostile in my region for manabases and this stabilizes that. The downside of Veteran Explorer is that you are more reliant on the combo because Explorer doesn’t have the same sort of reach as DRS which is a real cost. Having DRS allows for you to grind better and really can use the creature plan as a real way to close out the game as well as fixes you fourth color of mana pretty well.
Want to try the DRS build you have, and I am slowing picking up the pieces. I want to play my build in 3-4 weekly tournaments first though so I can get a real good feel how the games go and then start really making adjustments.
The think with Coiling Oracle which really hurt me was the lack of flying. It sucks having 2 oracles in play and getting killed with Delver, Clique, Avenger or a Marit Lage token or the inability to attack a planeswalker. That evasion really makes a huge difference. The Card is nice, but not as important to me as the evasion and deathtouch. If I was running a Shardless Agent I would keep at least two in my deck though as it is a great target to cascade into
Riftsweeper was week and will get cut for something a little more relevant. Maybe a Magus of the Moon.
Have you tried Academy Rector? what are your thoughts on the old lady?
@FeloniousCrap,
Keep in mind that the ideal sequencing during the combo is to play the harpy first put the gating trigger on the stack then cast Parasitic Strix. This allows you to play around removal as long as you are not at 1 life
On a related note, I was looking over your list and noticed that you seemed super tight on red mana (1 taiga and 4 fetches that hit it, no basic mountain for Veteran Explorer to get, no DRS to fix red). Have you essentially intentionally conceded the ability to cast non-combo Imperial Recruiters? I'm contrasting this to my list with 10 fetches, 2 duals, and 4 DRS (essentially totaling 3x as many sources as you have), which hits red reasonably consistently but, even still, I sometimes need to stretch to do so.
I definitely recommend some number of Baleful Strix, but I will say that in my experience, Oracle has been the better card. I heartily endorse a 3-2 split in favour of Oracle. This comes with a caveat however -- I don't have the same ramp package that you do, so Coiling Oracle is actually a relevant and non-trivial mode of ramp in my build, and I end up sac'ing my 2-drop to therapy very frequently. These two aspects make the deathtouch/evasion on strix of much lower relevance in the context of my build and experience.
And as a second caveat, I need to admit that Delver is not by any stretch my best match-up. It's got some play to it, definitely, but it is certainly possible that my configuration is responsible for me being a slight dog verses delver.
Glad to hear our experiences with Riftsweeper align.
What decks would you want Magus of the Moon against? Even with just my 4 basics, I'd considered it in the past but discarded it (on theory-crafting alone: too slow to get when relevant, probably doesn't come down before T4, and for me it requires a fetch-heavy hand to get basics to function on in advance).
She'd been on my radar when I had the white splash. I actually was considering her as a potential Birthing Pod package, lol. She ended up seeming too clunky, especially with the ability of opposing DRS to stymie her trigger and the need to have a cabal therapy (in my list, since I don't have Phyrexian Tower) if it was in the absence of pod.
The pod package I deemed too cute without even trying it, but the concept was that it could pod a 2CMC dude into Recruiter (fetching another Recruiter to hand), then pod Recruiter into rector and then either sac rector to cabal therapy or pod rector into nothing, but the rector trigger would fetch Aluren and you'd just combo.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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I am light on red mana, I have 6 fetches and one taiga. Why my manabase is structured this way is because if I am hard casting Imperial Recruiter more than once I am probably losing the game. My current build is more set up around resolving the combo, I don’t don’t have the same ability to grind out games like your deck does. By eschewing Shardless Agent and Deathrite Shaman I lose the ability to really get the beatdown on and stretch for that extra damage as well as getting additional card advantage. But what I get by having my deck built this way is consistency in the combo, and a streamlined deck configuration for game 1.
The reason that I am not running a single mountain is because I have no way to fetch it beside Veteran Explorer. I don’t ever really want to see a mountain in my opening hand as it can’t cast anything besides Imperial Recruiter which as a creature to hard cast in legacy is pretty underwhelming.
And that makes sense for what your strategy is. Your build straddles the fence between being this midrange value deck and a combo deck. I get the feel that you’re looking for the incremental value gains first and if the combo comes up or you can stick an Aluren then you can go crazy. If you don’t its not a big deal because you still have this 2-1 as a primary plan.
My build is much more combo focused and Oracle and Explorer overlap a lot while the strix has enough separation between role and function of Explorer. I was going to try a split between Strix and Oracle I am just not sure if it should be 3/2 Oracle or 3/2 Strix, I will probably start with three Oracle but might move to three Strix just to find what feels right. Strix is much better in the Delver matchup though which is pretty prevalent around here.
BUG decks, Land Decks etc. If you can stick it you will usually just win the game but I don’t think I can support it though.
That seems really slow, but cool. I think I would just run two Towers with her to facilitate turning her on as birthing pod just seems really cute. I would probabaly have to rework the whole deck though and I don't think it is worth it.