I do want to point out in case it's not obvious that Surgical Extraction on Narcomoeba can be utterly devastating. Narcomoeba has a triggered effect, not a replacement ability, so it does go to the graveyard and can be hit with Surgical Extraction or Extirpate with their triggers on the stack, which leaves you with an empty board and an empty library (i.e. a sitting duck).
I also want to point out that the BBB idea is a bad one. Once you've milled yourself, that's it. You have to win that turn, or you're dead to attempting to draw from an empty library the following turn. Unlike Belcher, you don't get a second chance if your opponent stops you the first time. I think that is this deck's biggest weakness - it has no anti-hate and no defense; this deck folds to a single Turn 1 Tormod's Crypt by the opponent.
Nothing hinders you to run a belcher in the deck and Empty the Warrens as 1 of.
Focus on a singel combo is bad, the advantage is that you can pack in multiple different win options, they can't hate all of them.
If they have maindeck crypt turn 1, you might be dead if you have no belcher or Empty the Warrens, but thats "fair".
Also a incredible small chance still exists that you just play your 2/3 flyer guy and that kills them.
Sure thats like 1 out of 1000 games , but all that stuff happens at some point.
Extraction type cards are a weakness, if they have them maindeck, they will most likely beat you. After boarding you have at least pact or as said multiple different win options (sideboard more Empty the Warrens if they pack graveyard hate, they might simply die).
With a high enough turn 1 kill chance you win a fair amount of games simply by that.
You wont be undefeated, with 6 rounds or more in a tournament, you will not be lucky enough to not face any player with hate that hits you.
But that seems overall fair, unless they pack hate maindeck (but if someone has maindeck hate against any combo, its bad to start anyway).
I do believe he uses the Angel to return Cantor and Fiend hunter (exiling angel), saccing Cantor for mana, using mana for Undercity Informer, saccing Fiend hunter (returning Angel, repeating as necessary) to mill opponent out.
My current list. I'm using the Angel/Azami/Maniac Kill.
Sideboard though...needs work. The one Progenitus is there against Show and Tell. On the off chance they get to cast Show and Tell, if you show in a Spy and they don't kill you on the spot, you kill yourself on your next draw step. With Progenitus his replacement effect is there so that you just put him back as the only card in your deck...that way, on your next draw phase (that is IF you get one, providing they don't Omniscience you or if your still alive after staring down the face of Emrakul) you won't die. You then can combo out.
Or, if you're EXTREMELY LUCKY, you can show him in a beat face while you set up for the combo.
Also I may have lost it but I swear I saw someone ask about what to do with Narcomoebas in your hand. Personally I run brainstorm to deal with this issue.
I still find the Angel + Fiend Hunter kill unpleasant because you now auto-lose to all decks packing Emrakul or Progenitus (admittedly, trying to get through Omni is tough, but getting through NO Combo Elves shouldn't).
I still find the Angel + Fiend Hunter kill unpleasant because you now auto-lose to all decks packing Emrakul or Progenitus (admittedly, trying to get through Omni is tough, but getting through NO Combo Elves shouldn't).
Agreed. With Emrakul and Progenitus around, its hard not worth it to go this way. I personally feel as thought Mimeoplasm/Murderous Redcap(Triskeleon)/Lord of Extinction is the way to go, with Angel kill being second.
I play Angel kill, because I've always wanted to win with Lab Maniac lol.
I still find the Angel + Fiend Hunter kill unpleasant because you now auto-lose to all decks packing Emrakul or Progenitus (admittedly, trying to get through Omni is tough, but getting through NO Combo Elves shouldn't).
I think that the win cons for this deck are going to be fairly meta dependent if his meta doesn't feature decks that run Emrakul but lots of Stifle then his list might be pretty good plus with a smaller combo he has more room for tutors/cantrips mana or counterspells which should'nt be underestimated.
[DECK] Chrome Mox
Your best mana source. It helps you filter your combo finishers from your hand into the graveyard. Most of them also help you get the color you need to play the remaining cards in hand. Weak against Chalice of the Void
I'm pretty sure Chrome Mox doesn't let you discard.
Your list seems much more resilient but thats because you often won't have mana. Only Lotus Petal+Mox won't be enough primary mana. Elvish+Simian+Pact+Wild Cantor looks like the next best thing.
This deck concept looks too fragile in my opinion:
-You have about 10% chance of mull to oblivion because you need a Grindstone to win (tutors an cantrips help this)
-You'll be mana short for a turn 1-2 kill about 10% of the time too (you need black mana+ritual pretty often). This is why about 30 cards are mana, no less.
-Force of will, stifle, chalice of the void, discard and grave hate all means game over (countered by FoW and Pact of Negation and somewhat by Therapy)
So yes, you can win maybe over 50% of game t1 in the right matchup, but you have about 10 slots left for cantrips, resilience, redundancy and mana fix. You just need to have a few bad draws or have a countermagic matchup and you lose because you have no plan B.
Is the kikki-twin a kill a possibility in this deck? I'd love to pull that off.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: Modern is Bad
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
I definately like the idea of playing Bridge from Below as a way to protect your combo and get more value from your Therapies. I say this right after playing a game where, mid combo, he cast a Lightning Bolt on my Narcomoeba....stopping me dead lol.
1 seems fine however, just to get value from it.
I'm also considering moving up to 3 Cabal Therapy. If your able to cast one in your opening hand, it could either bait a counterspell or disrupt anything that could stop you (if your on the draw)
In my testing, Summoner's Pact has been amazing. If my hand has Spirit Guides + Ritual, it's a Wild Cantor, if I need more mana, it's a Spirit Guide. If I need a Chrome Mox imprint, it's Odious Trow.
If you have both the LED and the IT/Wish, those are easily better, as you can fetch a Spy/Informer with them, but I'm not sure I really like LED/IT/Wish in this deck, as if you only have one, it's a dead card, and this deck is so fragile, we want to maximize our turn 1 by not having dead cards. If I mull until I hit a Spy/Informer, I feel like I have a 60% turn 1 win.
My test list: (no SB for now, as it's not running Wish atm)
I can see a lot of benefit of adding Living Wish as a tutor and sideboard fetcher, to add more versatility and protection. This deck is turning into one freaky ANT/Belcher/Breakfast combo though..
Chalice of the void: Don't sweat it, it's not played that much. It's only important when it tips the balance for 2 cards that achieve the same goal (Lotus Petal and Chrome Mox are just too good)
Wild Cantor&Summoner's Pact: Don't worry about the possible lost from Pact, if the combo fizzles you lose anyway (you just used up all your cards for nothing). The only time it matters is if you're playing a noob that counters your first mana spell. A slight fizzle like Spirit Guide+Spirit Guide(from Pact)+Manamorphose hoping for the draw you need might be more fatal too. Anyway, point is that Pact is 99% of the time a free Mana(guide) or filter(Cantor), unless you change to wincon to something like Emrakul that requires an other upkeep. I would not play less then 4. Cantor would be a 1 of unless you really need more filter. Playing 1 gives you 5 filters and 2 is 6 filters so it's not really worth it unless 6-7 is the critical amount of fixing you need. Manamorphose fixes for for free though and 9 mana filters looks good.
Living Wish, Infernal Tutor and Lion's Eye Diamond: These 3 come together. LED is good at 2 things: Using a tutor or activating Informer (where it acts as a 1 colorless). Since it's usable half the time I'd only cut 2 mana for 4 LED. Living wish and Infernal tutor acts similar: They get the miller. Wish can't get lands (2 mana for 1) and tutor can't get mana either (no hand anymore). Wish work with green but uses the SB. These tutors are dead cards if you don't draw LED or A LOT of mana(60% of the time T0 and 50% T2) and LED isn't good mana by itself so I don't think it's really worthwhile to play it considering that's 8-12 cards (with or without wish).
It's almost copy-pasted from an article I found (don't remember). 3 Cabal Therapy+BfB helps hardcast it before comboing off and might be a surprise for the opponent before the last part of the combo. The SB combat hate by transforming into Doomsday->Shelldock->Emrakul or Charbelcher.
I might have missed this in your text, I will re read it in a moment to see but do you have any way to deal with hitting the Grim Monolith in the case you hit it with Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer in the top cards of your library?
The way I understood it people ran Living Wish in its place in the case they needed to trade two mana for the land out of the SideBoard.
Belcher runs Land Grant partially for this purpose, is this something we need to consider as well?
I have this kill condition in the deck, since it needs one space less in the deck, and with an additional Cabal Therapy you can also get rid of creature removal from your opponent.
Also you can sometimes even cast the cabal therapy. And you have a smaller chance to get stuck with the combo pieces in your hand.
Chancellor of the Tangle is in the Deck, since you want to win Turn 1 anyway, and he is an additional source for your Mana.
Tinder Wall is in the Deck, since there is no other black ritual and you have more green Mana sources in the Deck then you have red sources.
Cabal Ritual is in the Deck as an additional Mana ritual and I play it over Rite of Flame, since it happened to me, that I could not get red AND black Mana. Also you have better chance to hardcast a Cabal Therapy this way, before the combo.
4 Narcomoebas for consistency (you need 3 Creatures in play) Bridge from below, such that you can cast discard and then the dread return.
Wild Cantor to transmute Mana.
Also no stuff like carddraw (I had Faithless Looting at the beginning), since you have no clue, what you will draw and this makes your mulligan decisions way harder.
With this Deck you draw your hand and then know if you can kill the opponent or not. Since even with carddraw in the deck, you cannot keep a hand without a selfmill creature. And if you have carddraw instead of Mana rituals chances are there, that you don't draw the Mana you need.
Sometimes you need to draw an additional Mana source, but you have 32 Mana sources in the deck, this should be enough.
But I don't know a good sideboardstrategy yet...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My new houserules:
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
I see both of you running Cabal Ritual, is it viable as a 'weaker' Dark Ritual? Because I doubt you can get the threshold high enough to have it become a powerhouse as it is in ANT. It is a good card to ramp up mana, when you also have a Dark Ritual to cast it, though...
I basically read it as 1 more mana in my hand, I originally had Rite of Flame in its place, but Rite wasn't doing much more for me, and made me WAY too reliant on Manamorphose/Pact for Cantor.
Getting the 4th mana really is the trick with this deck. I'm really torn on LED for this reason.
It is a sideboard plan where you side in all 15 cards. When you cast Recross the Paths you put Shelldock Isle on the bottom of your library so Goblin Charbelcher wont hit it too early. Details.
It is a sideboard plan where you side in all 15 cards. When you cast Recross the Paths you put Shelldock Isle on the bottom of your library so Goblin Charbelcher wont hit it too early. Details.
But Shelldock Isle will come into play with recross the path and you are not able to reorder the whole library in this way since you hit a land.
@Hidetaka when you only went for the T1 kill, did you only keep hands, which could kill or also hands, which could draw the right thing (with street Wraith / Gitaxian Probe)?
I somehow like the transformation sideboard, and this is of course a big advantage of this decks, but I really didn't like this free cantrips. Since you never know, what they actually find...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My new houserules:
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
Because you don't want to lose to ONE hatecard, which cannot be played if we go first, and which isn't played that much overal, you cripple your deck, such that you almost cannot win anymore, only that you have 30% chance to not lose against that card? (Chance to have force of will).
This decks NEEDS to win fast and constant, such that it wins against decks where the opponent doesn't interact with you at least.
But your version has only 8 Cards which generate Mana on their own. Chrome Mox and Lotus Peta.
With only 12 other 0 Mana cost artifacts the chance to activate a Mox Opal is not allways granted.
No Bridge from Below further means, that you can often (drawn a Narcomoeba and comboed with Undercity Informer) cannot play a Cabal therapy before you do the combo.
Also if you discard your hand with Lion's Eye Diamond, you will still lose against counter or Graveyardhate, since you discard Pact of Negation!
The most important thing about this deck is, that it can win fast and constant. THEN we look about hate and this things.
But if your version cannot kill a goldfish being resistant to ahte, is completely irrelevant!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My new houserules:
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
No one plays Surgical Extraction Main.
No one plays Noxious Revival.
No one plays Elephant Grass T1 (and if he does you can still just wait until the player has to sacrifice it, which will be at some point).
No one plays Maze of Ith T1.
No one plays Chalice of the Void for 0 turn 1.
Ensnaring Bridge cost 3 Mana.
Enchantment destruction doesn't affect the Combo at all (Why should it?)
Path to Exile (and similiar stuff) can be discarded (Cabal Therapy).
Pithing Needle only does something against 4 of the wincards.
Spell Pierce doesn't allways does something (creature Mana sources).
I want to win the first game! In the second game the Deck can and will use the sideboard. (And there are a lot of possible Cards Chancellor of the Annex, other Wincondition, Pact of Negation and so on).
Losing to Force of Will and such things is of course an issue, but it is not solved with your deck!
When you use Lion's Eye Diamond, all your counter become useless, and you are still losing to Force of will.
Pact of Negation cannot be used to counter Chalice of the Void and so on. And Force of Will is only with around 30% probability in your hand.
(Chancellor of the Annex would be way better here).
Additional your List has just a really huge Chance to just lose to itself. (Have you tested your version even against a goldfish?...)
My Version has at least against a goldfish a good winning chance to win turn 1-2.
Your version will do this almost NEVER! You have not enough Mana sources, especially too phew sources granting initial Mana.
Also you have a bigger chance to get stuck with combo pieces / not having enough Narcomoebas then my List.
And as mentioned it is not much more resiliant!
Counter + Lion's Eye Diamond = Bad idea
Also Force of will costs 2 Cards! You will often not have a second blue card, when you are going off!
Also Fastcombo deck, which is not fast (anymore) = bad idea.
@Hidetaka Ok this seams reasonable. For me it was just frustrating to have this stupid cantrips in the deck. Since you never knew, what you would draw with them...
@Dondee this is not a crayz idea, but a good idea, if you want to have protection in game 1. (And as the other Chancellor it is better if you have no carddraw in the deck).
Also it is the best antihate you can play in a version with Lions eye diamond.
Also it is the best anticard you can play against decks with discard. And if you start the game it is better then Pact of Negation. (Since it can have an effect and be used as an imprint).
So I think at least 4 Slots (in the sideboard or maybe main) should be filled with him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My new houserules:
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Nothing hinders you to run a belcher in the deck and Empty the Warrens as 1 of.
Focus on a singel combo is bad, the advantage is that you can pack in multiple different win options, they can't hate all of them.
If they have maindeck crypt turn 1, you might be dead if you have no belcher or Empty the Warrens, but thats "fair".
Also a incredible small chance still exists that you just play your 2/3 flyer guy and that kills them.
Sure thats like 1 out of 1000 games , but all that stuff happens at some point.
Extraction type cards are a weakness, if they have them maindeck, they will most likely beat you. After boarding you have at least pact or as said multiple different win options (sideboard more Empty the Warrens if they pack graveyard hate, they might simply die).
With a high enough turn 1 kill chance you win a fair amount of games simply by that.
You wont be undefeated, with 6 rounds or more in a tournament, you will not be lucky enough to not face any player with hate that hits you.
But that seems overall fair, unless they pack hate maindeck (but if someone has maindeck hate against any combo, its bad to start anyway).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
4 Undercity Informer
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Cabal Ritual
3 Pact of Negation
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Wild Cantor
4 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Dread Return
4 Narcomoeba
Sideboard:
4 Doomsday
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Recross the Paths
1 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Meditate
1 Laboratory Maniac
Current decklist for what it's worth. Three Pact of Negation are maindecked.
Your main doesnt' look like it has a win condition.
Yes
4 Undercity Informer
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Narcomoeba
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
1 Wild Cantor
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tinder Wall
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Nature's Claim
4 Pact of Negation
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Unmask
My current list. I'm using the Angel/Azami/Maniac Kill.
Sideboard though...needs work. The one Progenitus is there against Show and Tell. On the off chance they get to cast Show and Tell, if you show in a Spy and they don't kill you on the spot, you kill yourself on your next draw step. With Progenitus his replacement effect is there so that you just put him back as the only card in your deck...that way, on your next draw phase (that is IF you get one, providing they don't Omniscience you or if your still alive after staring down the face of Emrakul) you won't die. You then can combo out.
Or, if you're EXTREMELY LUCKY, you can show him in a beat face while you set up for the combo.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
4x Desperate Ritual
3x Pyretic Ritual
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Manamorphose
4x Summoner's Pact
4x Dark Ritual
1x The Mimeoplasm
1x Dread Return
1x Lord of Extinction
1x Deathbringer Thoctar
3x Lotus Petal
1x Wild Cantor
4x Brainstorm
4x Faithless Looting
4x Undercity informer
3x Narcomoeba
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Cabal Therapy
Updated my list, now time to think about the sideboard should we try and transform into Belcher like this?
4x Tinder Wall
4x Seething Song
3x Empty the Warrens
Also I may have lost it but I swear I saw someone ask about what to do with Narcomoebas in your hand. Personally I run brainstorm to deal with this issue.
Agreed. With Emrakul and Progenitus around, its hard not worth it to go this way. I personally feel as thought Mimeoplasm/Murderous Redcap(Triskeleon)/Lord of Extinction is the way to go, with Angel kill being second.
I play Angel kill, because I've always wanted to win with Lab Maniac lol.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
I think that the win cons for this deck are going to be fairly meta dependent if his meta doesn't feature decks that run Emrakul but lots of Stifle then his list might be pretty good plus with a smaller combo he has more room for tutors/cantrips mana or counterspells which should'nt be underestimated.
I'm pretty sure Chrome Mox doesn't let you discard.
Your list seems much more resilient but thats because you often won't have mana. Only Lotus Petal+Mox won't be enough primary mana. Elvish+Simian+Pact+Wild Cantor looks like the next best thing.
This deck concept looks too fragile in my opinion:
-You have about 10% chance of mull to oblivion because you need a Grindstone to win (tutors an cantrips help this)
-You'll be mana short for a turn 1-2 kill about 10% of the time too (you need black mana+ritual pretty often). This is why about 30 cards are mana, no less.
-Force of will, stifle, chalice of the void, discard and grave hate all means game over (countered by FoW and Pact of Negation and somewhat by Therapy)
So yes, you can win maybe over 50% of game t1 in the right matchup, but you have about 10 slots left for cantrips, resilience, redundancy and mana fix. You just need to have a few bad draws or have a countermagic matchup and you lose because you have no plan B.
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
1 seems fine however, just to get value from it.
I'm also considering moving up to 3 Cabal Therapy. If your able to cast one in your opening hand, it could either bait a counterspell or disrupt anything that could stop you (if your on the draw)
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Yes, you can do it using Karmic Guide Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Pestermite check out the Cephilid Breakfast Primer if you want more ideas for ways to win most of them should work.
In my testing, Summoner's Pact has been amazing. If my hand has Spirit Guides + Ritual, it's a Wild Cantor, if I need more mana, it's a Spirit Guide. If I need a Chrome Mox imprint, it's Odious Trow.
If you have both the LED and the IT/Wish, those are easily better, as you can fetch a Spy/Informer with them, but I'm not sure I really like LED/IT/Wish in this deck, as if you only have one, it's a dead card, and this deck is so fragile, we want to maximize our turn 1 by not having dead cards. If I mull until I hit a Spy/Informer, I feel like I have a 60% turn 1 win.
My test list: (no SB for now, as it's not running Wish atm)
4 Undercity Informer
4 Manamorphose
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Narcomoeba
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Phantasmagorian
1 Wild Cantor
1 Odious Trow
Chalice of the void: Don't sweat it, it's not played that much. It's only important when it tips the balance for 2 cards that achieve the same goal (Lotus Petal and Chrome Mox are just too good)
Wild Cantor&Summoner's Pact: Don't worry about the possible lost from Pact, if the combo fizzles you lose anyway (you just used up all your cards for nothing). The only time it matters is if you're playing a noob that counters your first mana spell. A slight fizzle like Spirit Guide+Spirit Guide(from Pact)+Manamorphose hoping for the draw you need might be more fatal too. Anyway, point is that Pact is 99% of the time a free Mana(guide) or filter(Cantor), unless you change to wincon to something like Emrakul that requires an other upkeep. I would not play less then 4. Cantor would be a 1 of unless you really need more filter. Playing 1 gives you 5 filters and 2 is 6 filters so it's not really worth it unless 6-7 is the critical amount of fixing you need. Manamorphose fixes for for free though and 9 mana filters looks good.
Living Wish, Infernal Tutor and Lion's Eye Diamond: These 3 come together. LED is good at 2 things: Using a tutor or activating Informer (where it acts as a 1 colorless). Since it's usable half the time I'd only cut 2 mana for 4 LED. Living wish and Infernal tutor acts similar: They get the miller. Wish can't get lands (2 mana for 1) and tutor can't get mana either (no hand anymore). Wish work with green but uses the SB. These tutors are dead cards if you don't draw LED or A LOT of mana(60% of the time T0 and 50% T2) and LED isn't good mana by itself so I don't think it's really worthwhile to play it considering that's 8-12 cards (with or without wish).
Here is the list I'm optimizing:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Summoner's Pact
//Secondary Mana
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Grim Monolith
//Mana fixing
4 Manamorphose
1 Wild Cantor
4 Balustrade Spy
4 Undercity Informer
//Win
4 Narcomoeba
1 Dread Return
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
//Disruption
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Bridge from Below
//Free card
2 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Doomsday
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Recross the Paths
1 Infernal Contract
1 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
It's almost copy-pasted from an article I found (don't remember). 3 Cabal Therapy+BfB helps hardcast it before comboing off and might be a surprise for the opponent before the last part of the combo. The SB combat hate by transforming into Doomsday->Shelldock->Emrakul or Charbelcher.
I might have missed this in your text, I will re read it in a moment to see but do you have any way to deal with hitting the Grim Monolith in the case you hit it with Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer in the top cards of your library?
The way I understood it people ran Living Wish in its place in the case they needed to trade two mana for the land out of the SideBoard.
Belcher runs Land Grant partially for this purpose, is this something we need to consider as well?
1 Dread Return
1 Sutured Ghoul
1 Dragon Breath
1 Bridge from Below
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Narcomoeba
4 Balustrade Spy
4 Undercity Informer
// Get Mana
4 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Chancellor of the Tangle
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Tinder Wall
// Get the right Mana
4 Manamorphose
1 Wild Cantor
It has a really good chance to kill turn 1.
I have this kill condition in the deck, since it needs one space less in the deck, and with an additional Cabal Therapy you can also get rid of creature removal from your opponent.
Also you can sometimes even cast the cabal therapy. And you have a smaller chance to get stuck with the combo pieces in your hand.
Chancellor of the Tangle is in the Deck, since you want to win Turn 1 anyway, and he is an additional source for your Mana.
Tinder Wall is in the Deck, since there is no other black ritual and you have more green Mana sources in the Deck then you have red sources.
Cabal Ritual is in the Deck as an additional Mana ritual and I play it over Rite of Flame, since it happened to me, that I could not get red AND black Mana. Also you have better chance to hardcast a Cabal Therapy this way, before the combo.
4 Narcomoebas for consistency (you need 3 Creatures in play) Bridge from below, such that you can cast discard and then the dread return.
Wild Cantor to transmute Mana.
Also no stuff like carddraw (I had Faithless Looting at the beginning), since you have no clue, what you will draw and this makes your mulligan decisions way harder.
With this Deck you draw your hand and then know if you can kill the opponent or not. Since even with carddraw in the deck, you cannot keep a hand without a selfmill creature. And if you have carddraw instead of Mana rituals chances are there, that you don't draw the Mana you need.
Sometimes you need to draw an additional Mana source, but you have 32 Mana sources in the deck, this should be enough.
But I don't know a good sideboardstrategy yet...
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
I propose "The Cold War"
I basically read it as 1 more mana in my hand, I originally had Rite of Flame in its place, but Rite wasn't doing much more for me, and made me WAY too reliant on Manamorphose/Pact for Cantor.
Getting the 4th mana really is the trick with this deck. I'm really torn on LED for this reason.
But Shelldock Isle will come into play with recross the path and you are not able to reorder the whole library in this way since you hit a land.
@Hidetaka when you only went for the T1 kill, did you only keep hands, which could kill or also hands, which could draw the right thing (with street Wraith / Gitaxian Probe)?
I somehow like the transformation sideboard, and this is of course a big advantage of this decks, but I really didn't like this free cantrips. Since you never know, what they actually find...
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
This decks NEEDS to win fast and constant, such that it wins against decks where the opponent doesn't interact with you at least.
But your version has only 8 Cards which generate Mana on their own. Chrome Mox and Lotus Peta.
With only 12 other 0 Mana cost artifacts the chance to activate a Mox Opal is not allways granted.
No Bridge from Below further means, that you can often (drawn a Narcomoeba and comboed with Undercity Informer) cannot play a Cabal therapy before you do the combo.
Also if you discard your hand with Lion's Eye Diamond, you will still lose against counter or Graveyardhate, since you discard Pact of Negation!
The most important thing about this deck is, that it can win fast and constant. THEN we look about hate and this things.
But if your version cannot kill a goldfish being resistant to ahte, is completely irrelevant!
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
I think chancellors are great in this deck... early taxing your opponent with
Chancellor of the annex just a crazy idea.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
No one plays Noxious Revival.
No one plays Elephant Grass T1 (and if he does you can still just wait until the player has to sacrifice it, which will be at some point).
No one plays Maze of Ith T1.
No one plays Chalice of the Void for 0 turn 1.
Ensnaring Bridge cost 3 Mana.
Enchantment destruction doesn't affect the Combo at all (Why should it?)
Path to Exile (and similiar stuff) can be discarded (Cabal Therapy).
Pithing Needle only does something against 4 of the wincards.
Spell Pierce doesn't allways does something (creature Mana sources).
I want to win the first game! In the second game the Deck can and will use the sideboard. (And there are a lot of possible Cards Chancellor of the Annex, other Wincondition, Pact of Negation and so on).
Losing to Force of Will and such things is of course an issue, but it is not solved with your deck!
When you use Lion's Eye Diamond, all your counter become useless, and you are still losing to Force of will.
Pact of Negation cannot be used to counter Chalice of the Void and so on. And Force of Will is only with around 30% probability in your hand.
(Chancellor of the Annex would be way better here).
Additional your List has just a really huge Chance to just lose to itself. (Have you tested your version even against a goldfish?...)
My Version has at least against a goldfish a good winning chance to win turn 1-2.
Your version will do this almost NEVER! You have not enough Mana sources, especially too phew sources granting initial Mana.
Also you have a bigger chance to get stuck with combo pieces / not having enough Narcomoebas then my List.
And as mentioned it is not much more resiliant!
Counter + Lion's Eye Diamond = Bad idea
Also Force of will costs 2 Cards! You will often not have a second blue card, when you are going off!
Also Fastcombo deck, which is not fast (anymore) = bad idea.
@Hidetaka Ok this seams reasonable. For me it was just frustrating to have this stupid cantrips in the deck. Since you never knew, what you would draw with them...
@Dondee this is not a crayz idea, but a good idea, if you want to have protection in game 1. (And as the other Chancellor it is better if you have no carddraw in the deck).
Also it is the best antihate you can play in a version with Lions eye diamond.
Also it is the best anticard you can play against decks with discard. And if you start the game it is better then Pact of Negation. (Since it can have an effect and be used as an imprint).
So I think at least 4 Slots (in the sideboard or maybe main) should be filled with him.
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.