Hi all, this is my first post here but I have been playing Mana Dredge for around 5 years. I really have not changed the deck since then, minor stuff and I was invited to go as a legacy player for a team event and I'm looking to increase my chances of doing well.
Some changes I have already made while testing on MTGO: pyroblasts are definitely out, nature claims will probably be wear // tear s and there is an ashen rider in there somewhere. I have been thinking about noxious revival in the SB, I had it in years ago for surgical but just fell out of favor. I also have seen lots of lists with street wraith instead of careful studies. I also think serenity is pretty cool and so is dragonlord kolaghan looks good also.
In addition to my other post, what do people think about silent tombstone in the SB?
I think it needs testing but it has some potential for sure.
The most played grave hate right now is Deathrite Shaman and Surgical Extraction and Silent Tombstone takes them both out so that is always good.
How many to play and what to cut out of the sideboard is another question.
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Initial testing I have done (2 leagues) silent gravestone has been underwhelming, I'll elaborate soon but I think memory's journey to hide you cards is better. I will also post an updated list of what I am running on MTGO for my next league.
Sweet thanks for letting us all know about your testing. I did not have time to test it yet but I will be doing it later this month and in Februari to see how it goes. I also think that Memory`s Journey is the better card to hide your cards when they target them.
You can always put back three Narcs into your library with it if the game goes longer so it has more uses.
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What I am running for my next league. Having lots of trouble against lands and storm but overall running wild against fair decks. Really hoping to refine for next weekend's team open. Also not sure if leaving wear // tear s as they are or changing 1 or 2 to abrupt decays. Any help during testing would be great!
Taking out fair decks is what we do best, other decks we can bring sideboard cards in for. IF you have to play against Lands a lot Realm Razer would be a nice card to put in the side for that matchup.
This is what I`m playing and I`m absolutly loving the deck.
12 LANDS
2 Cephalid Coliseum
2 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
28 CREATURES
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
Realm razer seems good against lands, just doesn't stop bojuka bog which really gets to me. I'm really trying to tune the deck for an unknown meta at this open, then when I start playing again at a regular lgs I can shift more for the meta. I think I should pick up another thug for the main and take out darkblast even though killing young pyro and delver is usually pretty good.
For an open meta I use the deck that I posted and it is doing pretty good.
I think the Dark Blast or Golgari Thug thing is more a personal choice. I like the Thug more because sometimes we are stuck without lands and we can`t cast Darkblast anyway.
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I think tonight (NYC time) based on my list I'm going to make a SB guide. As for a primer not a lot has changed in the dredge world since that first page, the core is the same, just some updates like E.x. when I started dredge, mana confluence was not a card yet.
NOTE: all of this is for MANA DREDGE, which is very different from manaless dredge which is another deck entirely (manaless is not a budget version of mana dredge, imo)
Lands (stay close to 12 here, flooding out sucks)
2-4 city of brass
2-4 mana confluence
4 cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
0-1 dakmor salvage (to cast lootings more often)
As for creatures:
4 golgari grave troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 Putrid Imp (or tireless tribe if you prefer but putrid imp is better)
4 narcomoeba
2-4 Golgari thug
0-4 street wraith (different builds of the deck use him as more black creatures and card draw, often cut careful study)
3-4 ichorid
0-4 Prized Amalgam (personal preference, personally never liked the card, very team ichorid myself)
0-4 nether shadow (old school way of doing things)
Fatty creatures in the main
0-1 kolaghan
0-1 flame-kin zealot
0-1 griselbrand
Spells:
4 breakthrough
4 faithless looting
4 Lion's eye diamond
0-1 darkblast (meta and preference)
0-4 careful study (preference and builds, often cut for street wraith)
3-4 cabal therapy (highly recommend 4)
0-2 dread return (if you want more explosive game 1's with this package + fattys, some people have it in the SB)
I can add SB stuff later as I said but the core of dredge uses some combination of these cards. Also if anyone wants to help make a SB guide that would be awesome (based on a standard SB and highest metagame matchups)
Also as for matchups, the quick way to put it is that Dredge runs wilds against fair decks (delver, some leovald decks, pyro decks, d&t) but has some trouble against combo decks. Also we
Initial testing I have done (2 leagues) silent gravestone has been underwhelming, I'll elaborate soon but I think memory's journey to hide you cards is better. I will also post an updated list of what I am running on MTGO for my next league.
I'm interested to know what match ups and how many silent gravestones you brought in and how it affected the game when it hit play. At the very least, I still think shutting down DRS and surgical is enough for silent gravestone to earn a spot in our sideboard. Not to mention improving our match ups with Reanimator and Lands. But I haven't tested it yet since it's challenging to look for normal foils at this point. I just got my first copy and still need a minimum of two more to start testing.
Just a quick note on it since I don;t have time to go in depth, it shuts down the reanimator package, leyline of the void stops their graveyard and memory's journey sorta protects ours. I'll try it again in some 2-mans and see. Probably will go down a memory's journey and elesh norn
I think tonight (NYC time) based on my list I'm going to make a SB guide. As for a primer not a lot has changed in the dredge world since that first page, the core is the same, just some updates like E.x. when I started dredge, mana confluence was not a card yet.
NOTE: all of this is for MANA DREDGE, which is very different from manaless dredge which is another deck entirely (manaless is not a budget version of mana dredge, imo)
Lands (stay close to 12 here, flooding out sucks)
2-4 city of brass
2-4 mana confluence
4 cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
0-1 dakmor salvage (to cast lootings more often)
As for creatures:
4 golgari grave troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 Putrid Imp (or tireless tribe if you prefer but putrid imp is better)
4 narcomoeba
2-4 Golgari thug
0-4 street wraith (different builds of the deck use him as more black creatures and card draw, often cut careful study)
3-4 ichorid
0-4 Prized Amalgam (personal preference, personally never liked the card, very team ichorid myself)
0-4 nether shadow (old school way of doing things)
Fatty creatures in the main
0-1 kolaghan
0-1 flame-kin zealot
0-1 griselbrand
Spells:
4 breakthrough
4 faithless looting
4 Lion's eye diamond
0-1 darkblast (meta and preference)
0-4 careful study (preference and builds, often cut for street wraith)
3-4 cabal therapy (highly recommend 4)
0-2 dread return (if you want more explosive game 1's with this package + fattys, some people have it in the SB)
I can add SB stuff later as I said but the core of dredge uses some combination of these cards. Also if anyone wants to help make a SB guide that would be awesome (based on a standard SB and highest metagame matchups)
Also as for matchups, the quick way to put it is that Dredge runs wilds against fair decks (delver, some leovald decks, pyro decks, d&t) but has some trouble against combo decks. Also we
Mate how can you forget one of the most important spells in the deck!
4 Bridge from Below
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For sideboard cards that work by casting them from your hand, you would need to dig for them using your draw spells. Some people go with Fearless builds which don't have reactive sideboard cards but just scoop to hate like LotV in cases that you run into them.
I feel like lands might be a bit heavy at 14, I typically run 12, and see most stock lists as 12 - 13.
Otherwise I like the Collective Brutality main. Might not be 100% sold on 2, but could see wanting one in opener as a second spell T2. It definitely provides a little spice and versatility with it being efficient removal, allowing you to dredge further, getting around chalice on 1, synergy with LED, etc. I just know most games I feel I'd rather have that T1 start with a Faithless Looting or Careful Study.
Might bump up SB to be slightly more reactive to grave hate. An Ancient Grudge maybe or Chain of Vapor (all encompassing).
Rookie here though, just offering some insight.
Glad to see recent posts in here as I'm getting back into Legacy as well.
Initial testing I have done (2 leagues) silent gravestone has been underwhelming, I'll elaborate soon but I think memory's journey to hide you cards is better. I will also post an updated list of what I am running on MTGO for my next league.
I'm interested to know what match ups and how many silent gravestones you brought in and how it affected the game when it hit play. At the very least, I still think shutting down DRS and surgical is enough for silent gravestone to earn a spot in our sideboard. Not to mention improving our match ups with Reanimator and Lands. But I haven't tested it yet since it's challenging to look for normal foils at this point. I just got my first copy and still need a minimum of two more to start testing.
Hi everyone. I've been playing dredge for some years now and following this thread as well, but I finally decided to start participating.
The thing is that I will be attending to Legacy GP Seattle and I plan to bring dredge of course.
Basically my question is if someone has done more testing on Silent Gravestone. On paper it looks like it should cover a great variety of scenarios for us, since it should be board against Surgical Extraction and Deathrite Shaman, Reanimator and Lands, which would account for a huge proportion of the metagame.
Why would you say it's been underwhelming? It's too hard to get it in the initial hand? Gets often countered/destroyed? You still lose the game even when you successfully play it?
I built a LEDless list last year and then the local Legacy scene died and I never got to play. It looks like it's going to start back up, though, so I got to play this past Friday and went 3-0, winning 2-0 against Miracles, 2-1 against BR Reanimator, and 2-0 against Abzan Blade.
Now that Legacy might fire frequently on Fridays, I have some incentive to work on the deck, so I've got Street Wraiths and Silent Gravestones on the way right now.
With the new BnR update. I just want to ask what will be the adjustment for our SB since 1 less hate this time?
The DRS ban triggered people to increase the number of hate in their sideboards but it should subside after a few weeks. But if you have plans to play right now I would suggest to prepare for the worst.
The DRS ban triggered people to increase the number of hate in their sideboards but it should subside after a few weeks. But if you have plans to play right now I would suggest to prepare for the worst.
With DRS retired, I assume this equals to an increase in our game-1 winning percentage given less maindeck hate. We've always banked on winning game1, and then rolling the dice from there. DRS and a few others changed that, and had me playing with cards I normally wouldn't, like Street Wraith.
When it comes time to side, our opponents might choose more backbreaking hate to side in, but how many of them?
And will they hit them regularly? How many mulligans are they going to take, on average, to find it without redundancy/DRS to lean on?
Does anyone have any experience with Serenity in the SB? How does it compare to other types of Leyline/Cage counters?
Yep, I've played with it a lot.
Being a perm instead of an instant, and being 2-cmc, does give it a boom or bust type feel. FWIW - I typically experience wasteland turning me into sad panda, playing out 2cmc cards can be tricky sometimes, so I tend to run a few Lotus Petal in the SB.
But that said, I like it.
Seeing as Therapy is always our first answer to hate, and CotV being more common than I would like, having some answers to hate in the 2-cmc slot is useful. For this reason, Abrupt Decay & Wear // Tear are great cards, but if you fear multiple artifacts and enchantments, Serenity is nice to have.
I've never managed to drop this on the field against Affinity, but one day if that deck ever comes back......
I just put together a dredge list and am having a ton of fun with it, but I think I'm struggling with when to start dredging, and how to sideboard against matchups with tons of counters.
I've been looking through recent decklists on MTGGoldfish - is Dread Returning for a FKZ or Flayer not seen anymore? I don't think I saw any in winning decks from the past few months.
4x Bridge from Below
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x City of Brass
2x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
1x Flame-Kin Zealot
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
2x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
1x Darkblast
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Firestorm
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Leyline of the Void
4x Nature's Claim
2x Pyroblast
Some changes I have already made while testing on MTGO: pyroblasts are definitely out, nature claims will probably be wear // tear s and there is an ashen rider in there somewhere. I have been thinking about noxious revival in the SB, I had it in years ago for surgical but just fell out of favor. I also have seen lots of lists with street wraith instead of careful studies. I also think serenity is pretty cool and so is dragonlord kolaghan looks good also.
Thanks!
I think it needs testing but it has some potential for sure.
The most played grave hate right now is Deathrite Shaman and Surgical Extraction and Silent Tombstone takes them both out so that is always good.
How many to play and what to cut out of the sideboard is another question.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
You can always put back three Narcs into your library with it if the game goes longer so it has more uses.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Taking out fair decks is what we do best, other decks we can bring sideboard cards in for. IF you have to play against Lands a lot Realm Razer would be a nice card to put in the side for that matchup.
This is what I`m playing and I`m absolutly loving the deck.
12 LANDS
2 Cephalid Coliseum
2 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
28 CREATURES
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
12 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
8 OTHER SPELLS
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
SIDEBOARD
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ashen Rider
2 Dread Return
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Firestorm
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Memory's Journey
3 Wear / Tear
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
I think the Dark Blast or Golgari Thug thing is more a personal choice. I like the Thug more because sometimes we are stuck without lands and we can`t cast Darkblast anyway.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
ty!
NOTE: all of this is for MANA DREDGE, which is very different from manaless dredge which is another deck entirely (manaless is not a budget version of mana dredge, imo)
Lands (stay close to 12 here, flooding out sucks)
2-4 city of brass
2-4 mana confluence
4 cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
0-1 dakmor salvage (to cast lootings more often)
As for creatures:
4 golgari grave troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 Putrid Imp (or tireless tribe if you prefer but putrid imp is better)
4 narcomoeba
2-4 Golgari thug
0-4 street wraith (different builds of the deck use him as more black creatures and card draw, often cut careful study)
3-4 ichorid
0-4 Prized Amalgam (personal preference, personally never liked the card, very team ichorid myself)
0-4 nether shadow (old school way of doing things)
Fatty creatures in the main
0-1 kolaghan
0-1 flame-kin zealot
0-1 griselbrand
Spells:
4 breakthrough
4 faithless looting
4 Lion's eye diamond
0-1 darkblast (meta and preference)
0-4 careful study (preference and builds, often cut for street wraith)
3-4 cabal therapy (highly recommend 4)
0-2 dread return (if you want more explosive game 1's with this package + fattys, some people have it in the SB)
I can add SB stuff later as I said but the core of dredge uses some combination of these cards. Also if anyone wants to help make a SB guide that would be awesome (based on a standard SB and highest metagame matchups)
Also as for matchups, the quick way to put it is that Dredge runs wilds against fair decks (delver, some leovald decks, pyro decks, d&t) but has some trouble against combo decks. Also we
Mate how can you forget one of the most important spells in the deck!
4 Bridge from Below
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Otherwise I like the Collective Brutality main. Might not be 100% sold on 2, but could see wanting one in opener as a second spell T2. It definitely provides a little spice and versatility with it being efficient removal, allowing you to dredge further, getting around chalice on 1, synergy with LED, etc. I just know most games I feel I'd rather have that T1 start with a Faithless Looting or Careful Study.
Might bump up SB to be slightly more reactive to grave hate. An Ancient Grudge maybe or Chain of Vapor (all encompassing).
Rookie here though, just offering some insight.
Glad to see recent posts in here as I'm getting back into Legacy as well.
Decks:
Skred Red, Abzan Midrange, U/B Delver, Mono U Delver, Uril, the Miststalker
Hi everyone. I've been playing dredge for some years now and following this thread as well, but I finally decided to start participating.
The thing is that I will be attending to Legacy GP Seattle and I plan to bring dredge of course.
Basically my question is if someone has done more testing on Silent Gravestone. On paper it looks like it should cover a great variety of scenarios for us, since it should be board against Surgical Extraction and Deathrite Shaman, Reanimator and Lands, which would account for a huge proportion of the metagame.
Why would you say it's been underwhelming? It's too hard to get it in the initial hand? Gets often countered/destroyed? You still lose the game even when you successfully play it?
I played this list:
2 City of Brass
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
3 Faithless Looting
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Ashen Rider
2 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Faithless Looting
3 Firestorm
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Nature's Claim
3 Faerie Macabre
Now that Legacy might fire frequently on Fridays, I have some incentive to work on the deck, so I've got Street Wraiths and Silent Gravestones on the way right now.
2 City of Brass
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
1 Dread Return
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
1 Ashen Rider
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Faithless Looting
3 Firestorm
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Nature's Claim
3 Silent Gravestone
With DRS retired, I assume this equals to an increase in our game-1 winning percentage given less maindeck hate. We've always banked on winning game1, and then rolling the dice from there. DRS and a few others changed that, and had me playing with cards I normally wouldn't, like Street Wraith.
When it comes time to side, our opponents might choose more backbreaking hate to side in, but how many of them?
And will they hit them regularly? How many mulligans are they going to take, on average, to find it without redundancy/DRS to lean on?
....this is good for us
Yep, I've played with it a lot.
Being a perm instead of an instant, and being 2-cmc, does give it a boom or bust type feel. FWIW - I typically experience wasteland turning me into sad panda, playing out 2cmc cards can be tricky sometimes, so I tend to run a few Lotus Petal in the SB.
But that said, I like it.
Seeing as Therapy is always our first answer to hate, and CotV being more common than I would like, having some answers to hate in the 2-cmc slot is useful. For this reason, Abrupt Decay & Wear // Tear are great cards, but if you fear multiple artifacts and enchantments, Serenity is nice to have.
I've never managed to drop this on the field against Affinity, but one day if that deck ever comes back......
This is my current list:
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
Creatures:
2 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Ichorid
3 Street Wraith
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
1 Dread Return
2 Breakthrough
Enchantments:
4 Bridge From Below
Artifacts:
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Ashen Rider
1 Dread Return
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lotus Petal
2 Nature's Claim
2 Serenity
2 Silent Gravestone
I've been looking through recent decklists on MTGGoldfish - is Dread Returning for a FKZ or Flayer not seen anymore? I don't think I saw any in winning decks from the past few months.
Thanks to Rivenor for the art.