Also, seriously, I have no problem with legacy being for people "with money", in this case meaning adults with a steady income. It's a hobby, there are many other hobbies that require a much larger investment.
It's my least favourite thing about the game. I'm the inclusive type.
But the problem is that if we can make proxies, no one will buy cards...
I've played in casual events with proxies, and observed two things:
People are embarrassed to play proxies, and apologetic when they do run one or two.
Basic lands are essentially free, yet I never see any which aren't Unglued, Beta, Unhinged, or Zendikar full art. If people won't pay for nicer cards when free cards are available, why does nobody play "free" basics?
Of course, to be fair, these people are accustomed to the game as being collectible. If we let proxies in full blown, maybe the game would be dominated my a new mentality.
I think it might be okay to allow some number of proxies in the very lowest level of sanctioned play:
LGS are running these events anyway.
these events will attract more players and more diverse decks.
Players will still need cards if they ever want to play in a bigger event, or to fill out the 55 or so slots than cannot be proxied.
This would have no negative effect on higher REL events
Of course it would be up to the organisers - no should be forced to run proxie events if the community is opposed.
Will Legacy go the way of Vintage? Maybe, but it won't be happening anytime soon, and it's definitely not close.
When Legacy staples become so expensive that only the very wealthy can join, there'll already be a huge established player base who already have their decks built. So Legacy might stop growing long before it ever dies.
It's okay (but not ideal) for the game to stop growing. My bigger fear is that it will continue to grow, but with a huge influx of tier two budget decks. That would ruin what is currently a rich and diverse format.
I really don't care about upsetting people who've spent lots of money - I've spent a fair bit myself. I only care about keeping the game healthy and diverse. I think the answer is not proxies, but killing the reserved list. That's another topic, though.
I really don't care about upsetting people who've spent lots of money - I've spent a fair bit myself. I only care about keeping the game healthy and diverse. I think the answer is not proxies, but killing the reserved list. That's another topic, though.
A lot of places already do this (allowing proxy cards). Sometimes there's a number limit on the number of proxies allowed and sometimes not. I have played in a few of these small, friendly events, and despite proxies being legal I only once played against an opponent using them. In his case, the proxies were so good that I wouldn't have noticed if he hadn't said anything. He'd proxied Tarmogoyfs in his Team America deck.
There was one guy playing one event with a whole deck proxied out, and again his proxies were pretty nice. It was an unusual deck he had no interest in owning, I believe. It had Imperial Recruiters, and I can understand anyone's hesitation to go 4-of on such a fringe card.
That first player eventually got his Goyfs and piloted that deck every chance he got. We met again at an SCG where a last-round loss to him put me at 34th and him at 9th place. It seems that the proxy-legal event he'd played about a year earlier helped him, to some extent, become a good player and a valuable member of our community. This colors my own opinion on proxies, and I am strongly in favor of allowing them. Without those small proxy-legal tournaments in the neighborhood, would this guy have put a deck together for the Open and done well with it? I think not.
I reserve my disdain for things that are really and truly scummy, like cheating, Adderall abuse, playing lands in front of creatures, the scent of certain venues, and the unjust imprisonment of Black Vise.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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It's my least favourite thing about the game. I'm the inclusive type.
I've played in casual events with proxies, and observed two things:
- People are embarrassed to play proxies, and apologetic when they do run one or two.
- Basic lands are essentially free, yet I never see any which aren't Unglued, Beta, Unhinged, or Zendikar full art. If people won't pay for nicer cards when free cards are available, why does nobody play "free" basics?
Of course, to be fair, these people are accustomed to the game as being collectible. If we let proxies in full blown, maybe the game would be dominated my a new mentality.I think it might be okay to allow some number of proxies in the very lowest level of sanctioned play:
- LGS are running these events anyway.
- these events will attract more players and more diverse decks.
- Players will still need cards if they ever want to play in a bigger event, or to fill out the 55 or so slots than cannot be proxied.
- This would have no negative effect on higher REL events
Of course it would be up to the organisers - no should be forced to run proxie events if the community is opposed.That said, I don't feel strongly either way.
When Legacy staples become so expensive that only the very wealthy can join, there'll already be a huge established player base who already have their decks built. So Legacy might stop growing long before it ever dies.
It's okay (but not ideal) for the game to stop growing. My bigger fear is that it will continue to grow, but with a huge influx of tier two budget decks. That would ruin what is currently a rich and diverse format.
I really don't care about upsetting people who've spent lots of money - I've spent a fair bit myself. I only care about keeping the game healthy and diverse. I think the answer is not proxies, but killing the reserved list. That's another topic, though.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
100% agree.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
There was one guy playing one event with a whole deck proxied out, and again his proxies were pretty nice. It was an unusual deck he had no interest in owning, I believe. It had Imperial Recruiters, and I can understand anyone's hesitation to go 4-of on such a fringe card.
That first player eventually got his Goyfs and piloted that deck every chance he got. We met again at an SCG where a last-round loss to him put me at 34th and him at 9th place. It seems that the proxy-legal event he'd played about a year earlier helped him, to some extent, become a good player and a valuable member of our community. This colors my own opinion on proxies, and I am strongly in favor of allowing them. Without those small proxy-legal tournaments in the neighborhood, would this guy have put a deck together for the Open and done well with it? I think not.
I reserve my disdain for things that are really and truly scummy, like cheating, Adderall abuse, playing lands in front of creatures, the scent of certain venues, and the unjust imprisonment of Black Vise.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
-
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules