Lots of top 8 lists have run even 5 moxen total and you're saying that you shouldn't run more than 2 just makes no sense. Check deckcheck.net for ANT lists and you'll see plenty of moxen in the deck whereas no one has tried to use divining top while divining top seems good with mystical tutor it has little other uses in the deck other than filtering out land before you draw a card and drawing the card you tutored for.
Check more lists,
4 moxen, 4 petals, 4 LEDs, 4rituals and minimum 2 C.Rituals are a whopping total of 18 accelerators, that is to much since you never need that much to win and makes the deck a lot less consistant.
Tops fiter lands, and make Doomsday Combo's possible.
Also, you can sac LED's and then use the Top to draw AN.
@Mods, sorry for double post, but i don't know how to edit a qoute in my previous post:(
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Thanks to SpiderBoy4 @ High-Light Studio's for the awesome banner
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Volrath already covered the Chrome Mox debate enough...
Runed Halo becomes a problem when backed by Meddling Mage, Orim’s Chant/Abeyance, and/or countermagic. Your life becomes a lot easier when you can just ignore permanents and win, especially when your opponent gets a great hand/set of draws.
Sensei’s Divining Top allows you to draw into a Pyroblast/Spell Snare/Pact of Negation to counter an opposing counterspell targeting Ad Nauseam/Infernal Tutor, even if you used LED for mana. With 2 Tops in play you can also use a Mystical Tutor to loop Ill-Gotten Gains or get around an Ethersworn Cannonist. This is all beside the facts that it allows you to win games vs. blue-based control after turn 3, recover from heavy discard and/or land destruction even easier, and enable Doomsday.
The deck is plenty consistent without sensei's top and doomsday...that's just another way to win with the deck rather than the traditional way of drawing a buttload with ad nauseam then storming through with chant active and killing them. Personally I don't like doomsday too much because the other way just seems better able to win but I'll playtest both builds and tell you what I think after that
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
From all of my playtesting I agree with the person that said no more than 2 chrome mox. I tried 3 for a while but having 1 in your opening hand just blows, and having 2 is almost always a mulligan. With 2 there is a slight chance you will get it in the opening hand and an almost sure thing you get them after ANT.
I tried mox diamond for a while and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I might take a single mox diamond out of my cube and try it out.
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Jeff
Currently playing
Legacy: Dredge, TES, SI variants
Yeah, i agree with most thing people say around here, but i like Perish as an answer to Tresh, i still play UGR Tresh, and place top 8 in every tournament i enter with, and with ANT i always find myself midgame against them, there Perish really shines, because a bounce doesnt hurt them, but Perish is a must counter, it is basicly better than rushing river in this matchup(keep in mind that in Holland people don't play CounterBalance that often, since it is boring to play with or against).
Perish isn't a must counter. Playing Thresh, I'd never counter Perish, except when I'm going to deal lethal damage the next turn. It's going to stall them for 1 or 2 turns, at most, while not getting rid of any countermagic. Thre/ash usually attacks with a single creature early, only to have more creatures to join the feast a few turns later. If your opponent is flooding creatures on the board, he's light on protection, so you should combo as soon as possible, not waste time playing Perish.
Also whe said anything about Halo being a Prob?, the damn thing is bouce able and helm + Grapeshot also kicks it in the Nutz.
If only things were so easy... UWb Landstill with Halo is a hell of a bad match if you are forced into the mid game. Meddling Mage + Halo + Countermagic is really bad. Every card, in a vacuum, is not an issue for this deck. The reality, though, is completely different.
The deck is plenty consistent without sensei's top and doomsday...that's just another way to win with the deck rather than the traditional way of drawing a buttload with ad nauseam then storming through with chant active and killing them. Personally I don't like doomsday too much because the other way just seems better able to win but I'll playtest both builds and tell you what I think after that
Doomsday isn't in the list to generate consistency. It's there for an alternate mid/late game engine after you've taken enough damage so Ad Nauseam can't do the job. Ill-Gotten Gains' commitment with the graveyard will most of the time make it impossible for you to combo through that. It still enables a 2nd win con that requires lots of storm (something IGG won't do) and ways to play over some hate bears. In other words, Doomsday is gives us versatility.
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Storm Boards - We don't like to use the attack step.
Noob question of the thread: How does ANT SB for matchups 2 and 3?
Do you guys switch out 1x cards to "respond" to particular nuances (ex - Runed Halo, Chalice) or is there a large-scale tweak?
This is coming from an opponent of ANT (i don't think I could ever pilot this lol). It's something that I need someone to explain.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Noob question of the thread: How does ANT SB for matchups 2 and 3?
Do you guys switch out 1x cards to "respond" to particular nuances (ex - Runed Halo, Chalice) or is there a large-scale tweak?
This is coming from an opponent of ANT (i don't think I could ever pilot this lol). It's something that I need someone to explain.
Siding in cards is pretty easy -- you know it when you build your sideboard. Siding out is the issue in question. Usually, you will be weakening the combo to have answers to what you know you will face post SB (your opponent's maindeck cards plus common knowledge sideboard cards they will bring against you). With that, I mean you will lose goldfishing speed, which is prefectly normal for dragging in answers. You should be checking these cards to come out:
- Chant against aggro and chalice decks. The timewalk is not so good to warrant it a slot after g1.
- Cabal Ritual against controlling decks. You can't afford to combo as soon as turn 2 -ish (turn 1 on the play asks for that common question: "Got Force?") against heavy controlling decks. Be they prepared, you will bite disruption. Therefore, Cabal Ritual becomes a bad Lotus Petal, which is already half-bad against control -- it's no land.
- IGG against blue and the mirror. It goes out whenever you know recurring your opponent's cards is a big drawback.
- Ponder against Chalice/Trinisphere. You need a redundancy of threats against these and that's actually the function of those cantrips. If you provide real redundancy (as answers to those cards), you might want to skip the heavy cantripping part.
- Maindeck bounce if it's too situational. Considering my list, I carry Wipe Away to deal with Counterbalance, while being worse against anything else compared to Rushing River, as an example. This/these bounce slot/slots are of the pilot's choice, but when they still are too situational, they will have to come out. It's the first slot that gets sided out, usually.
- Extra Ad Nauseams when you lack side-out choices. As in another topic, redundancy is always good, but if you can't execute the main plan, it's of no good.
- Sometimes Doomsday is simply not good enough, but it's hard to argue for siding it + Meditate out, because they will win you late games when IGG sometimes can't. Rarely I take these out.
(The above points don't cover all topics, but I hope they cover the most important ones)
Cards I'd never side out (should be accurate):
15 lands -- I never side out any lands, while sometimes I bring the extra 2 (red lands for Pyroblast) for improving the game (and Top) against control.
1 Ad Nauseam -- It's the best win condition for the very early game and early wins do happen even against disruption walls.
1 Orim's Chant -- It's a good warranty post AN when you fizzle. Having lands on the board almost assures you will have another attempt on your next turn, so that timewalk will come very handy. Also, even the most aggroish deck ever will maybe bring something to screw you up badly that Mystical -> Chant will probably be able to get rid of or even handle (letting you combo freely on the spot).
4 Duress -- It could be sided out, but I can't remember if I ever did it. As I only play 2 Pyroblasts, against blue I tend to keep all my 10 disruption spells (4 Chant, 4 Duress, 2 SB Pyro).
4 Sensei's Divining Top -- Actually does something against Chalice/Trinisphere, while Ponder doesn't (note: I don't play Ponder).
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Brainstorm
Anything else is dependant of the match for being worthy of a slot or not.
--------------
* Regarding the single Chant that never leaves: It seems like a good warranty post AN when you fizzle. Having lands on the board almost assures you will have another attempt on your next turn, so that timewalk might come very handy. Also, even the most aggroish deck ever will maybe bring something to screw you up badly that Mystical -> Chant will probably be able to get rid of or even handle (letting you combo freely).
This is all in reference to my hybrid list which plays 15 lands, 8-9 protection, 1 bounce, 2 Doomsday, 1 Ad Nauseam, and 2 Infernal Tutor. I routinely board out all of my Ad Nauseams (along with Infernal Tutors, Cabal Rits, and usually some number of Lotus Petals) against control decks. I also tend to board out Duress for Pyroblasts in some matchups (specifically the Team America matchup (leaving me Chants + Pyroblasts). The only cards I don't board out are:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Doomsday
1 Meditate
4 Brainstorm
4 SDT
15 Land
Otherwise, Jaminho's advice is pretty accurate. Duress and Chant can be taken out when you have better disruption for the matchup (I usually have at least 4 Pyroblast somewhere in my 75) or are playing something that doesn't want disruption at all (ala Eva Green or Green/Black Goblins), although it's fairly rare that you won't leave in the Duress and at least one Chant (if you play it).
Siding in cards is pretty easy -- you know it when you build your sideboard. Siding out is the issue in question. Usually, you will weakening the combo to have answers to what you know you will face post SB (your opponent's maindeck cards plus common knowledge sideboard cards they will bring against you). With that, I mean you will lose goldfishing speed, which is prefectly normal for dragging in answers. You should be checking these cards to come out:
- Chant against aggro and chalice decks. The timewalk is not so good to warrant it a slot after g1.
- Cabal Ritual against controlling decks. You can't afford to combo as soon as turn 2 -ish (turn 1 on the play asks for that common question: "Got Force?") against heavy controlling decks. Be they prepared, you will bite disruption. Therefore, Cabal Ritual becomes a bad Lotus Petal, which is already half-bad against control -- it's no land.
- IGG against blue and the mirror. It goes out whenever you know recurring your opponent's cards is a big drawback.
- Ponder against Chalice/Trinisphere. You need a redundancy of threats against these and that's actually the function of those cantrips. If you provide real redundancy (as answers to those cards), you might want to skip the heavy cantripping part.
- Maindeck bounce if it's too situational. Considering my list, I carry Wipe Away to deal with Counterbalance, while being worse against anything else compared to Rushing River, as an example. This/these bounce slot/slots are of the pilot's choice, but when they still are too situational, they will have to come out. It's the first slot that gets sided out, usually.
- Extra Ad Nauseams when you lack side-out choices. As in another topic, redundancy is always good, but if you can't execute the main plan, it's of no good.
- Sometimes Doomsday is simply not good enough, but it's hard to argue for siding it + Meditate out, because they will win you late games when IGG sometimes can't. Rarely I take these out.
(The above points don't cover all topics, but I hope they cover the most important ones)
Cards I'd never side out (should be accurate):
15 lands (the amount I play maindeck -- 2 SB for Pyroblast and for improving Top against control)
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Dark Ritual
1 Orim's Chant *
4 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top (much better than Ponder against Chalice/Trinisphere -- I don't play Ponder)
Anything else is dependant of the match for being worthy of a slot or not.
--------------
* Regarding the single Chant that never leaves: It seems like a good warranty post AN when you fizzle. Having lands on the board almost assures you will have another attempt on your next turn, so that timewalk might come very handy. Also, even the most aggroish deck ever will maybe bring something to screw you up badly that Mystical -> Chant will probably be able to get rid of or even handle (letting you combo freely).
Wow, that is very thorough. Do you mind if I steal this and put it in the first post?
Wow, that is very thorough. Do you mind if I steal this and put it in the first post?
Sure. This is regarding that list I posted on page 1. Just rectifying the "list of cards I don't side out" with emidln's post, which is more accurate, while adding a brief explanation to each. Edited above.
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I am a spammer, for I am a replier.
Storm Boards - We don't like to use the attack step.
While the number of necessary Chant effects can be argued (I feel it heavily depends on the rest of your list/meta and general strategies vs. blue based control), some split between Silence and Chant will probably be done. Silence makes permanent based hate such as Meddling Mage and Runed Halo a bit weaker, at the cost of being less versatile in some areas (aka: not saving you from creature beats).
I’ll also note that having 7-8 Chant effects probably works best in TES; where you can rely more upon heavy threat density to put the control player into a position where they are not very safe without any hard counters for a chant effect.
Because I almost never pay the kicker for Chant, and because Chants are like 10 bucks a piece (if you get a good deal) I will be buying some Silences to use in my TES build for non-proxy tournies.
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Jeff
Currently playing
Legacy: Dredge, TES, SI variants
what hurts the deck more if you opp plays challace @ 0? 1?
Or
Thorn of amethyst?
I'd definitely say the Chalice hurts a little bit more on the fact it outright prevents you from playing those spells, but the Thorn hurts in the fact it slows down any bounce that might be there to solve the problem. It also makes the math harder when comboing since you need to make sure you account that you need to pay one more each spell.
Chalice at 1 or zero both hurt a lot you need access to blue with petals after you draw with ad nauseum...but 1 hurts a lot also both are just very bad
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
What looks to me like a well tuned list taken from Deck Check. Event: Belgian Legacy Cup Qualifier ( Hasselt )
Date: April 19th, 2009
Number of Players: 69 Rank: First! Link: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=25459
This seems like a well tuned list and it pulled first place.
Some possible points of interest: Toolbox Sideboard: I suppose this really is not a huge surprise given the full set of Mystical Tutors in the main deck. Still feels a little unfocused, and I would much rather play Pryoblast over Thoughtseize. I assume the Sensei's Diving Top(s) are designed to come in over Ponder during the Thresh Landstill and control MU's. Also, why not a random 1-of Pyroclasm? Protection: Outside of the troublesome omission of Pyroblast in the SB everything looks good. Hard to go wrong with a full suite of Duress and Chant! Land: I do feel like there should be a 15th land over the 3rd Mox of the 4th Ponder. 1 Ad Nauseum: Seems akward but with the full grip of 8x tutors you could certainly justify it. Doomsday: The omission of the Doomsday Engine sort of bothers me. I have always had great success pulling up the Meditate piles and the like. I suppose this version is more streamlined. Ponder vs Top: I just cannot decide, but I have always favored the top. MDing top and cutting Ponder makes room for 4x Slot in the SB; and that would be very exciting.
I feel that the sensei's divining top should only be included if doomsday is included; that's why he didn't run it I'm guessing.
1 ad nauseum? Dumbest decision I've ever seen when someone builds ANT you have 2 it's nonnegotiable if one get's countered YOU ARE SCREWED hear me SCREWED especially if you did the LED infernal tutor trick you are almost certainly screwed and mystical tutor is always x4 cause it is, IMO, the best card in the deck end of their turn you tutor ad nauseum with it or infernal tutor if you have LED in hand but it's just so good. Also get's you orim's chant
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I feel that the sensei's divining top should only be included if doomsday is included; that's why he didn't run it I'm guessing.
1 ad nauseum? Dumbest decision I've ever seen when someone builds ANT you have 2 it's nonnegotiable if one get's countered YOU ARE SCREWED hear me SCREWED especially if you did the LED infernal tutor trick you are almost certainly screwed and mystical tutor is always x4 cause it is, IMO, the best card in the deck end of their turn you tutor ad nauseum with it or infernal tutor if you have LED in hand but it's just so good. Also get's you orim's chant
I think cutting an Infernal Tutor for an additional Nauseum is fine. Also, I find Top to be entirely better in the Thresh MU; which is the one that matters most IMO.
I think cutting an Infernal Tutor for an additional Nauseum is fine. Also, I find Top to be entirely better in the Thresh MU; which is the one that matters most IMO.
True; the thresh matchup is very relevant (at least in my meta)
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
mateml's list has been fine-tuned over the last several months for his particular metagame. He doesn't face many CB decks and doesn't feel the need to address them with maindeck bounce. The gameplan against other stuff is to simply win before they can hurt you. From looking at his results, it appears to work out well for him. The second Ad Nauseam can only deal you damage. It makes flips at 5 or less life far more uncertain than they should be. If it gets discarded you can still win by using Infernal Tutor -> Infernal Tutor, Infernal Tutor->IGG, or IGG -> Ad Nauseam if you need additional storm.
Check more lists,
4 moxen, 4 petals, 4 LEDs, 4rituals and minimum 2 C.Rituals are a whopping total of 18 accelerators, that is to much since you never need that much to win and makes the deck a lot less consistant.
Tops fiter lands, and make Doomsday Combo's possible.
Also, you can sac LED's and then use the Top to draw AN.
@Mods, sorry for double post, but i don't know how to edit a qoute in my previous post:(
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Runed Halo becomes a problem when backed by Meddling Mage, Orim’s Chant/Abeyance, and/or countermagic. Your life becomes a lot easier when you can just ignore permanents and win, especially when your opponent gets a great hand/set of draws.
Sensei’s Divining Top allows you to draw into a Pyroblast/Spell Snare/Pact of Negation to counter an opposing counterspell targeting Ad Nauseam/Infernal Tutor, even if you used LED for mana. With 2 Tops in play you can also use a Mystical Tutor to loop Ill-Gotten Gains or get around an Ethersworn Cannonist. This is all beside the facts that it allows you to win games vs. blue-based control after turn 3, recover from heavy discard and/or land destruction even easier, and enable Doomsday.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I tried mox diamond for a while and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I might take a single mox diamond out of my cube and try it out.
Currently playing
Legacy: Dredge, TES, SI variants
Perish isn't a must counter. Playing Thresh, I'd never counter Perish, except when I'm going to deal lethal damage the next turn. It's going to stall them for 1 or 2 turns, at most, while not getting rid of any countermagic. Thre/ash usually attacks with a single creature early, only to have more creatures to join the feast a few turns later. If your opponent is flooding creatures on the board, he's light on protection, so you should combo as soon as possible, not waste time playing Perish.
If only things were so easy... UWb Landstill with Halo is a hell of a bad match if you are forced into the mid game. Meddling Mage + Halo + Countermagic is really bad. Every card, in a vacuum, is not an issue for this deck. The reality, though, is completely different.
Doomsday isn't in the list to generate consistency. It's there for an alternate mid/late game engine after you've taken enough damage so Ad Nauseam can't do the job. Ill-Gotten Gains' commitment with the graveyard will most of the time make it impossible for you to combo through that. It still enables a 2nd win con that requires lots of storm (something IGG won't do) and ways to play over some hate bears. In other words, Doomsday is gives us versatility.
Storm Boards - We don't like to use the attack step.
Do you guys switch out 1x cards to "respond" to particular nuances (ex - Runed Halo, Chalice) or is there a large-scale tweak?
This is coming from an opponent of ANT (i don't think I could ever pilot this lol). It's something that I need someone to explain.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Siding in cards is pretty easy -- you know it when you build your sideboard. Siding out is the issue in question. Usually, you will be weakening the combo to have answers to what you know you will face post SB (your opponent's maindeck cards plus common knowledge sideboard cards they will bring against you). With that, I mean you will lose goldfishing speed, which is prefectly normal for dragging in answers. You should be checking these cards to come out:
- Chant against aggro and chalice decks. The timewalk is not so good to warrant it a slot after g1.
- Cabal Ritual against controlling decks. You can't afford to combo as soon as turn 2 -ish (turn 1 on the play asks for that common question: "Got Force?") against heavy controlling decks. Be they prepared, you will bite disruption. Therefore, Cabal Ritual becomes a bad Lotus Petal, which is already half-bad against control -- it's no land.
- IGG against blue and the mirror. It goes out whenever you know recurring your opponent's cards is a big drawback.
- Ponder against Chalice/Trinisphere. You need a redundancy of threats against these and that's actually the function of those cantrips. If you provide real redundancy (as answers to those cards), you might want to skip the heavy cantripping part.
- Maindeck bounce if it's too situational. Considering my list, I carry Wipe Away to deal with Counterbalance, while being worse against anything else compared to Rushing River, as an example. This/these bounce slot/slots are of the pilot's choice, but when they still are too situational, they will have to come out. It's the first slot that gets sided out, usually.
- Extra Ad Nauseams when you lack side-out choices. As in another topic, redundancy is always good, but if you can't execute the main plan, it's of no good.
- Sometimes Doomsday is simply not good enough, but it's hard to argue for siding it + Meditate out, because they will win you late games when IGG sometimes can't. Rarely I take these out.
(The above points don't cover all topics, but I hope they cover the most important ones)
Cards I'd never side out (should be accurate):
15 lands -- I never side out any lands, while sometimes I bring the extra 2 (red lands for Pyroblast) for improving the game (and Top) against control.
1 Ad Nauseam -- It's the best win condition for the very early game and early wins do happen even against disruption walls.
1 Orim's Chant -- It's a good warranty post AN when you fizzle. Having lands on the board almost assures you will have another attempt on your next turn, so that timewalk will come very handy. Also, even the most aggroish deck ever will maybe bring something to screw you up badly that Mystical -> Chant will probably be able to get rid of or even handle (letting you combo freely on the spot).
4 Duress -- It could be sided out, but I can't remember if I ever did it. As I only play 2 Pyroblasts, against blue I tend to keep all my 10 disruption spells (4 Chant, 4 Duress, 2 SB Pyro).
4 Sensei's Divining Top -- Actually does something against Chalice/Trinisphere, while Ponder doesn't (note: I don't play Ponder).
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Brainstorm
Anything else is dependant of the match for being worthy of a slot or not.
--------------
* Regarding the single Chant that never leaves: It seems like a good warranty post AN when you fizzle. Having lands on the board almost assures you will have another attempt on your next turn, so that timewalk might come very handy. Also, even the most aggroish deck ever will maybe bring something to screw you up badly that Mystical -> Chant will probably be able to get rid of or even handle (letting you combo freely).
Storm Boards - We don't like to use the attack step.
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Doomsday
1 Meditate
4 Brainstorm
4 SDT
15 Land
Otherwise, Jaminho's advice is pretty accurate. Duress and Chant can be taken out when you have better disruption for the matchup (I usually have at least 4 Pyroblast somewhere in my 75) or are playing something that doesn't want disruption at all (ala Eva Green or Green/Black Goblins), although it's fairly rare that you won't leave in the Duress and at least one Chant (if you play it).
Currently Playing:
Retired
Wow, that is very thorough. Do you mind if I steal this and put it in the first post?
Sure. This is regarding that list I posted on page 1. Just rectifying the "list of cards I don't side out" with emidln's post, which is more accurate, while adding a brief explanation to each. Edited above.
Storm Boards - We don't like to use the attack step.
Silence W
Instant
Your opponent's can't cast spells this turn.
Chant without kicker
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
I’ll also note that having 7-8 Chant effects probably works best in TES; where you can rely more upon heavy threat density to put the control player into a position where they are not very safe without any hard counters for a chant effect.
Currently playing
Legacy: Dredge, TES, SI variants
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
2x Undiscovered Paradise
Creatures (4)
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Artifacts (12)
4x Lotus Petal
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Instants (12)
3x Orim's Chant
4x Brainstorm
1x Ad Nauseam
4x Dark Ritual
4x Infernal Tutor
1x Tendrils of Agony
4x Rite of Flame
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
4x Duress
4x Ponder
4x Burning Wish
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Shattering Spree
1x Cleanfall
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Infernal Contract
2x Thoughtseize
4x Red Elemental Blast
2x Krosan Grip
I'm still up in the air on a few things:
- Do I keep or get rid of the Spirit Guides? If I get rid of them, what do I put in their place? Xantid Swarm? Mystical Tutor?
- I'm not sure if I should keep Empty the Warrens in the SB. Is it worth it for an alt win con? I was thinking of replacing it with Pyroclasm.
- Since this is more like the older TES decks than it is ANT, should I even run the Ad Nauseam? Seems like I don't really ever need it to win.
Those are just some of the things I'm thinking about at the moment. What do you think?
In the mean time, I'll do some more tinkering.
Edit: Woot post #100!!!
Or
Thorn of amethyst?
I'd definitely say the Chalice hurts a little bit more on the fact it outright prevents you from playing those spells, but the Thorn hurts in the fact it slows down any bounce that might be there to solve the problem. It also makes the math harder when comboing since you need to make sure you account that you need to pay one more each spell.
Avatar courtesy of a_passer_bye, and signature courtesy of R&Doom, both at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe. Awesome job!
Back in the game, ready to rock some M:tG again.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Event: Belgian Legacy Cup Qualifier ( Hasselt )
Date: April 19th, 2009
Number of Players: 69
Rank: First!
Link: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=25459
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lions Eye Diamond
3 Chrome Mox
4 Ponder
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Duress
4 Orim's Chant
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pact of Negation
1 Wipe Away
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Serenity
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sensei's Diving Top
Some possible points of interest:
Toolbox Sideboard: I suppose this really is not a huge surprise given the full set of Mystical Tutors in the main deck. Still feels a little unfocused, and I would much rather play Pryoblast over Thoughtseize. I assume the Sensei's Diving Top(s) are designed to come in over Ponder during the Thresh Landstill and control MU's. Also, why not a random 1-of Pyroclasm?
Protection: Outside of the troublesome omission of Pyroblast in the SB everything looks good. Hard to go wrong with a full suite of Duress and Chant!
Land: I do feel like there should be a 15th land over the 3rd Mox of the 4th Ponder.
1 Ad Nauseum: Seems akward but with the full grip of 8x tutors you could certainly justify it.
Doomsday: The omission of the Doomsday Engine sort of bothers me. I have always had great success pulling up the Meditate piles and the like. I suppose this version is more streamlined.
Ponder vs Top: I just cannot decide, but I have always favored the top. MDing top and cutting Ponder makes room for 4x Slot in the SB; and that would be very exciting.
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
1 ad nauseum? Dumbest decision I've ever seen when someone builds ANT you have 2 it's nonnegotiable if one get's countered YOU ARE SCREWED hear me SCREWED especially if you did the LED infernal tutor trick you are almost certainly screwed and mystical tutor is always x4 cause it is, IMO, the best card in the deck end of their turn you tutor ad nauseum with it or infernal tutor if you have LED in hand but it's just so good. Also get's you orim's chant
Currently Playing:
Retired
I think cutting an Infernal Tutor for an additional Nauseum is fine. Also, I find Top to be entirely better in the Thresh MU; which is the one that matters most IMO.
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
True; the thresh matchup is very relevant (at least in my meta)
Currently Playing:
Retired