I played the UWb version of this deck with not much success. The biggest problem this deck has imo is the life loss. With 6-8 Fetches 3-4 Thoughtsieze 4 Dark Confidant and Bitterblossom all taking your own life I found I was beating myself. I know you have to get that batterskull out but its not as easy as it sounds with all the discard being played, or swording a stoneforge while summoning sick so you cant get it out, or qasali and vindicate. tryed many different answers soul warden seemed to help specialy with multiple bitterblossoms also tried ajani gold which actually was nice cause you can either gain life or pump your weenies. Think this deck has plenty of potential but going to play my Junk Depths until the kinks are worked out.
ps sorry for poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
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I haven't tried the BW version, mainly due to card access. I will say about the UW Stoneblade has sometimes been difficult to play, and I find myself on a steep learning curve. In my opinion, the better you know how the different legacy decks work, the better pilot you will be with a counterspell version of control. I've only been playing Legacy 2-3 months now and I still have a lot to learn.
I played the UWb version of this deck with not much success. The biggest problem this deck has imo is the life loss. With 6-8 Fetches 3-4 Thoughtsieze 4 Dark Confidant and Bitterblossom all taking your own life I found I was beating myself. I know you have to get that batterskull out but its not as easy as it sounds with all the discard being played, or swording a stoneforge while summoning sick so you cant get it out, or qasali and vindicate. tryed many different answers soul warden seemed to help specialy with multiple bitterblossoms also tried ajani gold which actually was nice cause you can either gain life or pump your weenies. Think this deck has plenty of potential but going to play my Junk Depths until the kinks are worked out.
ps sorry for poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
Ajani and soul warden are definitely not the cards this deck needs. I personally wouldn't play an esper build, I'd pick one or the other. That could just be because I've never been a fan of weak manabases (merfolk has spoiled me.) You might just want to play a bit more conservatively with your cards that cause life loss.
I haven't tried the BW version, mainly due to card access. I will say about the UW Stoneblade has sometimes been difficult to play, and I find myself on a steep learning curve. In my opinion, the better you know how the different legacy decks work, the better pilot you will be with a counterspell version of control. I've only been playing Legacy 2-3 months now and I still have a lot to learn.
Not sure if you're aware, but there are two different threads for UW and BW stoneblade. If you meant to post in BW, then disregard that.
Stoneblade in general isn't an easy deck to play. That being said though, knowing what to counter and what not to counter is a requirement for pretty much every deck that runs counterspells in legacy. In my opinion, though, knowing what to steal from an opponent's hand with a discard spell is equally as important, but is often a much more difficult choice to make.
I think if you're playing Esper you should be Stifle for sure. In fact I was half joking about playing 1 Sea somewhere in the 75 and Stifle's in the board. Spellstutter is pretty good too.
I played an Italia build last weekend just for fun, and while Lavamancer and Bolt are cool, especially with Basilisk Collar, it's not worth the trouble. I felt like I was never doing anything ever. Even when I got good draws they were glacially slow, which is saying something because this isn't a fast deck in general.
Long story short, play Bw and keep your Vindicates and other sweet white cards.
I have a feeling that I'm going to dump the moxen all together for more creatures or disruption, but I'm not sure about that.
I understand your sentiment. I really dislike drawing the moxes late game or when I have to mull. However, I'm trying something a little new: two moxes. It actually is not that bad. You don't draw it often enough that it is annoying and if you draw one, the chances of drawing another is very minimal. I haven't had a hand with two moxes yet. Check it out, it might be the solution.
I may be a bit new to this deck, but I feel like you're not going to have enough threats. Hand disruption is great, but it's almost useless mid-game when your opponent is top-decking. One of the real weaknesses I see with these decks is burn. I know this has been addressed earlier in the thread, but I feel like it might really be an issue here. If your meta is as burn-dominated as mine, that SoFaI won't be enough protection and the batterskull won't put a fast enough clock on the opponent. But I've only been playing this for a few weeks, so it may just be the environment I've been playing in.
I'm also a bit confused about your second deck. You increase the mana curve by adding what are essentially three 3 drops, but decrease your mana base? I see the change of moxes, but I'm not all that convinced it would really smooth things out for you, especially since you'll be drawing a lot of dead discard with the moxes mid game.
I like your inclusion of vampire nighthawk though. Most people I know don't like him at all, but the lifelink and flying are quite useful, especially when playing fetches, thoughtseizes, bitter blossom, and bob.
I like your inclusion of vampire nighthawk though. Most people I know don't like him at all, but the lifelink and flying are quite useful, especially when playing fetches, thoughtseizes, bitter blossom, and bob.
Vampire Nighthawk is terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. It sucks almost as much as Sword of Feast and Famine.
I only briefly glanced at your list but Playing 26 mana sources in a deck full of 2 drops is bad. Drop the moxen or use Chrome instead and only play 19 lands. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but Nighthawk is terrible, I'd play Gatekeeper over it, especially with all the Progeniti and Emrakul running around.
Bottom line, Feast and Famine sucks only slightly less than Nighthawk and you really only need 3 equipment main.
I know vampire nighthawk is slow at 2/3, but is there another better way to cope without the life loss? Having Bob, fetchlands, bitterblossoms, and thoughtseizes seems to do about half of the work for my opponent. And after batterskull is krosan gripped, are there any other options? I've been attempting to replace nighthawks with mirran crusaders, but I tend to miss the deathtouch and lifelink. Basilisk collar is an option, but my meta is extremely green heavy, with many players packing krosan grips main along other artifact hate. But you're most likely right. A lot of the time, it really is just a nice flier to carry a sword... Which I end up having a lot of due to the blossom.
*Note* I would be playing 4 Scrublands, but I don't have them currently
After play testing tonight against the UW stoneblade deck, I learned a few things...
1) Chrome Mox just wasn't doing it for me. I had tried playing dark ritual before and I like that more than these. They were dead late game, and most of the time, I didn't want to imprint any of the cards in my hand.
2) Sword of War and Peace ended up being awesome. As this deck tends to drain a LOT of your life, it was really nice to have such a huge life swing, more so than sword of light and shadow.
3) I really like having Tidehollow Sculler in the deck. Even if he can stop you opponent from having a daze or something long enough for you to drop a Bitterblossom or Bob made him invaluable.
Vampire Nighthawk is terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. It sucks almost as much as Sword of Feast and Famine.
I only briefly glanced at your list but Playing 26 mana sources in a deck full of 2 drops is bad. Drop the moxen or use Chrome instead and only play 19 lands. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but Nighthawk is terrible, I'd play Gatekeeper over it, especially with all the Progeniti and Emrakul running around.
Bottom line, Feast and Famine sucks only slightly less than Nighthawk and you really only need 3 equipment main.
Well, my original problem with the Mox Diamond list was the fact I had 26 mana sources. I didn't like it, because I wasn't drawing enough gas, which is why I replaced them with Chrome Mox and took out lands for more creatures. The second deck has more gas. Frankly, I might try it without any moxen.
Why do you say that SoFaF and Nighthawk are bad? Nighthawk you can make a case for, IMO, but SoFaF?
I've seen your list on SCG.........how reliably can you cast Elspeth and Gatekeeper in the same deck?
Well, my original problem with the Mox Diamond list was the fact I had 26 mana sources. I didn't like it, because I wasn't drawing enough gas, which is why I replaced them with Chrome Mox and took out lands for more creatures. The second deck has more gas. Frankly, I might try it without any moxen.
Why do you say that SoFaF and Nighthawk are bad? Nighthawk you can make a case for, IMO, but SoFaF?
I've seen your list on SCG.........how reliably can you cast Elspeth and Gatekeeper in the same deck?
Nighthawk is a non-disruptive creature that only gives you a little life back and dies to everything except Lavamancer. Trading isn't always an option and at 3 you have better options in swords, Vindicate, and Crusader.
Of all the swords FaF is the least useful. Pro-green is awesome, pro-black is the least relevant of all the colors to have protection from. The discard is ok, but untapping you lands isn't especially relevant most of the time and it leads you to overextending. Plus once you overextend, or just don't have any cards left in your hand it's useless. Every other sword has better protections or does much more relevant things, or both. I've said it before, but I'll say it again, Sword of Body and Mind is the best in Legacy right now.
I'll occasionally run into problems casting both Gatekeeper and Elspeth but not very often. I've only had trouble with either of them once. Obviously Elspeth is very late game card, but she just wins when you drop her. I think I've lost one game where I actually attempted to cast her and I was extremely behind there anyway.
My friend, testing partner and the reason I wrote the Stoneblade Primer in the first place, Tom Leger, took first at Jupiter Games's NELC today with this deck. I know his list is the same as Tim Frank's current list -2 Cabal Therapy, -1 Diabolic Edict, +1 Gatekeeper, + 1 Swords to Plowshares, + 1 Godless Shrine. The sideboard might be a little different.
My friend, testing partner and the reason I wrote the Stoneblade Primer in the first place, Tom Leger, took first at Jupiter Games's NELC today with this deck. I know his list is the same as Tim Frank's current list -2 Cabal Therapy, -1 Diabolic Edict, +1 Gatekeeper, + 1 Swords to Plowshares, + 1 Godless Shrine. The sideboard might be a little different.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that puts him at 3 Gatekeep md correct? Could you convince him to give us a write-up?
On Stillmoon: If you run Crusader md he is probably better. I however use crusader sb vs black and green decks :/ Ballencing color is a little hard though, as I want more B than W. Definitely worth working on.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that puts him at 3 Gatekeep md correct? Could you convince him to give us a write-up?
On Stillmoon: If you run Crusader md he is probably better. I however use crusader sb vs black and green decks :/ Ballencing color is a little hard though, as I want more B than W. Definitely worth working on.
Yes, 3 Gatekeeper.
I'll talk to him about it. Worst case, I'll talk to him and write it. We have tested heavily together so I know the deck in and out. I'll get back to you on this.
27th in Richmond yesterday. I got my ass wooped by Pat Cox, again, after going 5-0 and then played really sloppy against my next round Merfolk opponent and lost to Merfolk again the time after because I couldn't draw a third land, and which I needed for Ghostly Prison which would've won the game, until the 8th turn.
I'll post the list later but it looks pretty close to the last one.
Hey guys, I almost decided to stop playing legacy cause it's hard to get some of the cards in my area (alot of T2/Commander). Then I ran across the BW(x) Stoneblade thread. I like the BWR version. I have most the cards, so decided to work on it IRL and Online. Only thing I can't get Online is Vindicates. I know they are important, what is a better substitute until I get them (Oblivion Ring or Terminate).
@Gros: Tim's (current) list should be good enough to smash Zoo and UW. Affinity is probably okay if you can deploy your discard and equipment faster than they can land something like Tezzeret. Dredge is still weak game 1 but game 2 should be better with a strong sideboard. I have no idea what Stax would be like for this deck. I'd imagine you might want Serenity honestly and you definitely want a lot of discard. I don't really know the list so it completely skews what you want to do.
@NavyJoe: Vindicate is not easy to replace. The fact that it removes lands makes it superior to all your other options. I know its pricey but if you can pick up a set, do it. You need Planeswalkers. Elspeth and Ajani Vengeant are both very good in this deck.
Elspeth is pretty much a game winning house when she lands. I have not tried out ajani, but I have thought about it. He seems like he could be good due to the lifegain off of his helix ability, but I would be hesitant to use him just because he doesn't really have much staying power like in Elspeth's token generator, and at the same time, doesn't win you the game that much faster as in Elspeth's jump ability. I think it could be nice to keep things tapped and have to worry less about having a UW player untap fully every turn, in addition to keeping manlands tapped. The only problem is they need to have tapped in order to keep it tapped, meaning unless you drop ajani the turn after a manland hit you, it probably just hit Ajani for 2 loyalty, hence why I like Elspeth's ability to protect herself
ps sorry for poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
I've been playing UW Stoneblade
Here is my list.
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Spellstutter Sprite
3x Vendillion Clique
Instants 18
4x Mental Misstep
4x Force of Will
2x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
Artifacts 4
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Batterskull
3x Jace the Mindsculpter
1x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Land 24
4x Tundra
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
4x Wasteland
2x Island
2x Plains
4x Mishra Factory
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
3x Meddling Mage
2x Wrath of God
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Sword of Body and Mind
I haven't tried the BW version, mainly due to card access. I will say about the UW Stoneblade has sometimes been difficult to play, and I find myself on a steep learning curve. In my opinion, the better you know how the different legacy decks work, the better pilot you will be with a counterspell version of control. I've only been playing Legacy 2-3 months now and I still have a lot to learn.
Ajani and soul warden are definitely not the cards this deck needs. I personally wouldn't play an esper build, I'd pick one or the other. That could just be because I've never been a fan of weak manabases (merfolk has spoiled me.) You might just want to play a bit more conservatively with your cards that cause life loss.
Not sure if you're aware, but there are two different threads for UW and BW stoneblade. If you meant to post in BW, then disregard that.
Stoneblade in general isn't an easy deck to play. That being said though, knowing what to counter and what not to counter is a requirement for pretty much every deck that runs counterspells in legacy. In my opinion, though, knowing what to steal from an opponent's hand with a discard spell is equally as important, but is often a much more difficult choice to make.
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
I played an Italia build last weekend just for fun, and while Lavamancer and Bolt are cool, especially with Basilisk Collar, it's not worth the trouble. I felt like I was never doing anything ever. Even when I got good draws they were glacially slow, which is saying something because this isn't a fast deck in general.
Long story short, play Bw and keep your Vindicates and other sweet white cards.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Bitterblossom
3 Mox Diamond
1 Batterskull
1 Sword Of Fire and Ice
1 Sword Of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
3 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
3 Polluted Delta
4 Swamp
3 Plains
Here's the second list
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Gatekeeper Of Malakir
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Bitterblossom
3 Chrome Mox
1 Batterskull
1 Sword Of Fire and Ice
1 Sword Of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
3 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
2 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
2 Plains
I might go for -1 Wasteland and add an extra swamp in both lists.
I have a feeling that I'm going to dump the moxen all together for more creatures or disruption, but I'm not sure about that.
I understand your sentiment. I really dislike drawing the moxes late game or when I have to mull. However, I'm trying something a little new: two moxes. It actually is not that bad. You don't draw it often enough that it is annoying and if you draw one, the chances of drawing another is very minimal. I haven't had a hand with two moxes yet. Check it out, it might be the solution.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
I may be a bit new to this deck, but I feel like you're not going to have enough threats. Hand disruption is great, but it's almost useless mid-game when your opponent is top-decking. One of the real weaknesses I see with these decks is burn. I know this has been addressed earlier in the thread, but I feel like it might really be an issue here. If your meta is as burn-dominated as mine, that SoFaI won't be enough protection and the batterskull won't put a fast enough clock on the opponent. But I've only been playing this for a few weeks, so it may just be the environment I've been playing in.
I'm also a bit confused about your second deck. You increase the mana curve by adding what are essentially three 3 drops, but decrease your mana base? I see the change of moxes, but I'm not all that convinced it would really smooth things out for you, especially since you'll be drawing a lot of dead discard with the moxes mid game.
I like your inclusion of vampire nighthawk though. Most people I know don't like him at all, but the lifelink and flying are quite useful, especially when playing fetches, thoughtseizes, bitter blossom, and bob.
Vampire Nighthawk is terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. It sucks almost as much as Sword of Feast and Famine.
I only briefly glanced at your list but Playing 26 mana sources in a deck full of 2 drops is bad. Drop the moxen or use Chrome instead and only play 19 lands. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but Nighthawk is terrible, I'd play Gatekeeper over it, especially with all the Progeniti and Emrakul running around.
Bottom line, Feast and Famine sucks only slightly less than Nighthawk and you really only need 3 equipment main.
4x Stoneforge mystic
4x Vampire nighthawk
1x batterskull
1x sword of fire and ice
1x jitte
3x Sensei's divining top
4x thoughtseize
2x inquisition of kozilek
4x hymn to tourach
1x gerrard's verdict
4x vindicate
4x swords to plowshares
4x scrubland
4x marsh flats
3x plains
6x swamp
4x wasteland
4x kataki, war's wage
3x ghostly prison
4x engineered plague
4x leyline of the void
If i can get some more advice on sideboard cards i would appreciate it.
Thank you for Heroes of the Plane Studios for this awesome sig.
Legacy:
Shardlessless BUG (active)
Shardless BUG (retired)
UW Stoneblade (retired)
Maveric (retired)
Thopters (retired)
Dark Horizons (retired)
Dreadstill (retired)
Armageddon Staxx (retired)
- You think it is over, but Ibraman has just begun...
- When it rains, women get wet.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Mother of Runes
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
Non Creatures
4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawe's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Scrubland
3 Fetid Heath
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Godless Shrine
3 Swamp
3 Plains
*Note* I would be playing 4 Scrublands, but I don't have them currently
After play testing tonight against the UW stoneblade deck, I learned a few things...
1) Chrome Mox just wasn't doing it for me. I had tried playing dark ritual before and I like that more than these. They were dead late game, and most of the time, I didn't want to imprint any of the cards in my hand.
2) Sword of War and Peace ended up being awesome. As this deck tends to drain a LOT of your life, it was really nice to have such a huge life swing, more so than sword of light and shadow.
3) I really like having Tidehollow Sculler in the deck. Even if he can stop you opponent from having a daze or something long enough for you to drop a Bitterblossom or Bob made him invaluable.
All in all, the deck is still incredibly fun to play, and I would like to try out a few other cards (Gerrard's Verdict, Mox Diamond, Inquisition of Kozilek, trying out Mental Misstep main board...)
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Well, my original problem with the Mox Diamond list was the fact I had 26 mana sources. I didn't like it, because I wasn't drawing enough gas, which is why I replaced them with Chrome Mox and took out lands for more creatures. The second deck has more gas. Frankly, I might try it without any moxen.
Why do you say that SoFaF and Nighthawk are bad? Nighthawk you can make a case for, IMO, but SoFaF?
I've seen your list on SCG.........how reliably can you cast Elspeth and Gatekeeper in the same deck?
Nighthawk is a non-disruptive creature that only gives you a little life back and dies to everything except Lavamancer. Trading isn't always an option and at 3 you have better options in swords, Vindicate, and Crusader.
Of all the swords FaF is the least useful. Pro-green is awesome, pro-black is the least relevant of all the colors to have protection from. The discard is ok, but untapping you lands isn't especially relevant most of the time and it leads you to overextending. Plus once you overextend, or just don't have any cards left in your hand it's useless. Every other sword has better protections or does much more relevant things, or both. I've said it before, but I'll say it again, Sword of Body and Mind is the best in Legacy right now.
I'll occasionally run into problems casting both Gatekeeper and Elspeth but not very often. I've only had trouble with either of them once. Obviously Elspeth is very late game card, but she just wins when you drop her. I think I've lost one game where I actually attempted to cast her and I was extremely behind there anyway.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
do ya?
stillmoon cavalier
dodges dismember and stp and it's a piece of cake to cast. it also does everything.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that puts him at 3 Gatekeep md correct? Could you convince him to give us a write-up?
On Stillmoon: If you run Crusader md he is probably better. I however use crusader sb vs black and green decks :/ Ballencing color is a little hard though, as I want more B than W. Definitely worth working on.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Yes, 3 Gatekeeper.
I'll talk to him about it. Worst case, I'll talk to him and write it. We have tested heavily together so I know the deck in and out. I'll get back to you on this.
I'll post the list later but it looks pretty close to the last one.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gatekeeper
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshare
3 Terminate
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
2 Wasteland
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Path to Exile
3 Gerrard's Verdict
3 Perish
2 Tariff
1 Gatekeeper
Deck looks simliar in RL except I'm still working on getting the duals.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
1 Sword of War And Peace
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Perish
There may have been a Darkblast in there.
@Gros: Tim's (current) list should be good enough to smash Zoo and UW. Affinity is probably okay if you can deploy your discard and equipment faster than they can land something like Tezzeret. Dredge is still weak game 1 but game 2 should be better with a strong sideboard. I have no idea what Stax would be like for this deck. I'd imagine you might want Serenity honestly and you definitely want a lot of discard. I don't really know the list so it completely skews what you want to do.
@NavyJoe: Vindicate is not easy to replace. The fact that it removes lands makes it superior to all your other options. I know its pricey but if you can pick up a set, do it. You need Planeswalkers. Elspeth and Ajani Vengeant are both very good in this deck.
You don't necessarily need Planeswalkers, they're nice when they land but they're not crucial, but you do need a Batterskull.
I completely missed the lack of Batterskull. You definitely need that.
Yeah working selling my legacy staples online to get the Vindys. Got enough for 2.
I'll try out Ajani and Elspeth. 1 each?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
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Level 1 Judge!
Modern
- Merfolk UR
Legacy
- Stoneblade BW
EDH
- BUOona, Queen of the FaeBU
- BRWKaalia, the VastWRB
- WURZedruuRUW
Sale Thread!
CHARGIN' MAH TRADE THREAD