After playing it for a while, I still like the 7 1cc removal spells, but Cunning Wish seems too slow. I'm going to drop them for a Fact or Fiction and a couple Pithing Needles.
I am a big fan of path to exile as well especially in a diverse environment. But against countertop it just seems subpar without means of getting rid of balance/top efficiently. That said, I have been working on a UWG Landstill list for awhile and it runs both krosan grip and path to exile. I've had some success with the list against countertop aggro-control builds whenever I get the chance to test(which seems pretty rare these days).
As for nevinyrral's disk vs wrath of god debate run wrath of god instead. Just as Emidln previously stated, your risking too much of a liability with relying on disk as your primary mass removal spell in a krosan grip environment.
@Cecilia
Yeah... it does seem splashing green is beneficial.
But what do you think about 8 Swords? What's the maximum number of StE and PtE this deck should be running?
Well I usually would run 4 swords to plowshares and 2 or 3 path to exile since I usually have those extra slots for maindeck Krosan Grip as well. I also like to run the combonation of spell snare, counterspell, and force of will for all of those Countertop Aggro-Control decks out there. You just have to play tightly alot of the time in that matchup especially since countertop can still screw you over if your not careful. Which is relevant since most aggro-control balanced builds run more 1-3 casting cost cards and they can bring in more 3cc spells postboard. I also have been testing out Vedalken Shackles and it works well against tribal decks but then again Humility works just as fine or better too.
Just for reference here is the list I have been testing:
Man whats going on with this thread? Its going in the opposite direction that landstill should be going.
Theory #1: 8 manland, landstill.
Reasons this doesn't work.
-your 2 colored
-Landstill cannot run more then 6 colorless lands and be sucessfull.
-Your prone to forcing yourselfs into ld situations "tempo breaks" with their removal on your lands; which is never a good thing.
-You have to treat your factories as win conditions, and as so you have to be able to protect them. This argument goes along with the whole you need to have the correct color base in order to run lots of manlands; aka one color like merfolk or fae.
Theory #2: 8 Swords is better then 4:
-A large portion of metagames is being wrecked by counterbalance, and there are still decks that are either combo or don't care if you swords their creatures or win conditions because they have the ability to continually produce more. 8 Swords are completely and utterly dead in most of these types of matchups. You can also kiss your thresh matchup goodbye if you choose to approach this when they run counterbalance top.
-I'm not even going to bother and ask what your number split is for removal/draw/permission/win condition's. You need to balance these things out before you truly consider running a landstill model. I would highly recommend testing Konsultant's landstill model and making no adjustmants to get used to how a landstill model traditionally runs/ and then comming back after all that and making your choices. This will give you an idea of where evolution of landstill is going to go.
Also to note; while I completely disagree with path being run in the maindeck, I do believe it does have a place in the sideboard.
Also to the gentlemen who said cunning wish was too slow. I've been playing wish for more then two years in this format. In all of that time fast points in the format and slow; wish is still just fine in terms of speed. I played wish still at gp chicago; and had it not been for some minor flukes I would have played in day 2.
I agree running 8 manlands is too many especially since you already run decree of justice and elspeth, knight errant. I only have done limited testing with my UWG landstill list but since the meta I play in is full of goblins and merfolks; Humility and path to exile becomes great there. My meta isn't nearly as competitive as the metas are on the east coast though. But I do the best I can to study up on the format when I have the time.
As for testing Geoff Smelski's current list, I haven't because I have been concentrating much more on college as of late. Studying Chemistry and Calculus requires alot of time. I often like to play cunning wish landstill builds though just because wish gives you so much flexiblity and the more flexibility you have when playing control the better off you'll be in my opinion. Also, I pretty much like all of the landstill builds that Geoff Smelski plays even when he's having an off tournament.
I'm playing this both in the local Legacy tourneys (where it's doing fairly well - the TO decided to go 25 proxy to give people the tools to beat me) and in MTGO Classic, where I'm getting wrecked because WotC seems to think that a Legacy-lite format with Demonic Consultation is at all fun.
The Classic metagame is somewhat different from the Legacy one, owing mostly to Demonic Consultation's legality. Because of this, my sideboard in this build is tweaked more toward beating the Necropotence/Soul Spike and Ad Nauseam/Tendrils combo decks that I run into in the 2-man queues. Engineered Plague screws Goblins and Merfolk, and the Canonists were intended to be another foil for the storm decks, but aren't working out too well, usually because I'm dead before I get two mana half the time against these decks. What'd be better for the Legacy metagames you're seeing?
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I'm playing this both in the local Legacy tourneys (where it's doing fairly well - the TO decided to go 25 proxy to give people the tools to beat me) and in MTGO Classic, where I'm getting wrecked because WotC seems to think that a Legacy-lite format with Demonic Consultation is at all fun.
The Classic metagame is somewhat different from the Legacy one, owing mostly to Demonic Consultation's legality. Because of this, my sideboard in this build is tweaked more toward beating the Necropotence/Soul Spike and Ad Nauseam/Tendrils combo decks that I run into in the 2-man queues. Engineered Plague screws Goblins and Merfolk, and the Canonists were intended to be another foil for the storm decks, but aren't working out too well, usually because I'm dead before I get two mana half the time against these decks. What'd be better for the Legacy metagames you're seeing?
If your running into that many AD Nauseam Tendrils decks I would maindeck meddling mage as oppose to Dissipate either that or orim's chant. I usually name Tendrils for the first meddling mage and for the other mages you could start naming tutors and such. Spell snare could also help the matchup too since it counters infernal tutors and cabal ritual. Meddling mage could also serve it's purpose against those demonic consultation decks you have been seeing as well.
In the board you could run something like but you don't have to follow it:
You probably will have to drop the exalteds and Teferis if your running humility though but those are easily replacable with countermagic, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and possibly Ajani Goldmane. Maindeck Extirpates seems weird but I can see how they could help your matchup versus Ad Nauseam Tendrils.
I'm playing this both in the local Legacy tourneys (where it's doing fairly well - the TO decided to go 25 proxy to give people the tools to beat me)
This part is actually easy. I need a meta-game though to help you. So breakdown the regular decks that show up and the problems your having.
and in MTGO Classic, where I'm getting wrecked because WotC seems to think that a Legacy-lite format with Demonic Consultation is at all fun.
I have no experiance against these decks, so I don't know how much use I will be on this end, but I can tighten up your list for you.
3 Decree of Justice
2 Exalted Angel
3 Swords to Plowshares
cut angel add plowshares +1 for slots currently
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
4 Force of Will
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Dissipate
4 Counterspell
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
Cut teferi, theres not enough protection in this format to make teferi viable. Cut dissipate and throw in spell snare. Spell snare is simply put stronger across the board. Your not +3 for slots
As for the rest, this I think is very close if not the exact list konsultant plays.
3 Decree of Justice
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered explosives
3 Wrath of god
3 Spell snare
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Devining top
3 Vindicate
I think he runs a dragon and a crucible, as well as fact or fiction, but frankly I like the way this list looks as far as vindicate still. As far as your online meta who knows what to do on there. You'd have to show me a list for online demonic consultation decks.
Your sideboard really depends on what you expect to play against obviously. I would rather see something like this though for a general sideboard
4 Meddling Mage
3 Engineered plague
3 Hydroblast
2 Ajani
3- Empty slot runed halo/ Cannnonist/ Stifle if your looking at storm combo.
This part is actually easy. I need a meta-game though to help you. So breakdown the regular decks that show up and the problems your having.
Local Legacy metagame: No problems as of yet, I haven't shown up to one of the newly proxy-ified events to see what the kiddies are doing with proxies. It was basically just Standard stuff with a few older cards thrown in in the past. Merfolk was the only real deck I ran into, and I slaughtered that horribly (had Wrath in the board instead of Ethersworn Canonist). There's a guy who always plays a Stasis deck, but FoW + Extirpate = GG there. I'm far more worried about the Classic matchups this thing runs into. I'm only asking about that here because the Classic forum was dead even before I made it.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Anyone else been thinking wrath of god sucks lately? Alot? Maybe it's my meta, we don't get much merfolk and goblins died out long ago. My game is mostly NLU, bant thresh, ITF, Team America and lots of good combo players. So, I've been toying with cutting wrath completely in my build. I figure, the only real swarm decks left are tribal so the 4 plagues in the board stay. This is what I'm working with at the moment:
I absolute love sculler because he buys so much time against crap like combo and counterbalance, letting you find countermagic or removal for whatever the problem is. Let me make it clear that I do not expect them to stick long enough to get elspeth protection, they're simple disruption and maybe 2-4 point of damage. I've already tested vendillion clique and in my experience I hate that they get to draw a card, in legacy it's usually just as good as what you pulled unless it's land. So anyway, let me know if you have any more metagame suggestions. Thanks!
Quote from 3dueceAnyone else been thinking wrath of god sucks lately? Alot? Maybe it's my meta, we don't get much merfolk and goblins died out long ago. My game is mostly NLU, bant thresh, ITF, Team America and lots of good combo players. So, I've been toying with cutting wrath completely in my build. I figure, the only real swarm decks left are tribal so the 4 plagues in the board stay. This is what I'm working with at the moment:
I absolute love sculler because he buys so much time against crap like combo and counterbalance,
Krosan grip kills skuller, so does qasali. Your only delaying them by a turn and tapping yourself out on t2. You already run 4 spell snare 4 force. you should be fine.
Krosan grip kills skuller, so does qasali. Your only delaying them by a turn and tapping yourself out on t2. You already run 4 spell snare 4 force. you should be fine.
Agreed. If you're having that much trouble, duress would be exponentially better MB.
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I dont think Wrath sucks, persay. Perhaps replace Wrath with Vedalken Shackles to suit your meta-game shift. Of course, that requires a more stable manabase, especialy more Islands. I know some people have tried PtE as aditional spot removal, to my dismay. I'd rather have Shackles since its reusable. Then again, I also play 4 maindeck Vindicates as a catchall versus random junk that resolves, as well as killing pesky lands.
I'm ready to try out Elspeth. Has anyone here played with her? If so, whats your verdict? I have 2 flex slots to work with. Right now they are filled by FoFiction.
When elspeth was printed I dropped two in my list and never looked back. She's THE win condition for landstill now, with one or two decree of justice. The fact that elpeth makes blockers to protect herself and you is absolutely strong. She makes 5/5 flying mishra's factories, 4/4 flying dudes and infinite blockers. Even the few 4 color lists that are left are running her in spite of the double white cost. And she makes dudes under standstill. Absolutely nuts.
I'm happy to hear that, because I soooo want to play her in Landstill. When I add her, I'll prolly drop the count of Mishra's Factory to 3 instead of 4. I still run Decree of Justice as a 2 of now. I'll keep the Decress and add the 2 Elspeth's. Glad she's awesome!
Wow, Elspeth is ridiculously good! Whew. And, I absolutley love the more aggressive nature she allows Landstill to take. Man, people can't wait to try and kill her, she's public enemy #1 against anyone I play against.
Well, now I'm rearranging my manabase, a bit. More stability. I dropped Mishra's Factory to 3, no Wastelands anymore, and I might take out Tolaria West too. Leaving only Academy Ruins, and Mishra's Factory as the only colorless sources. I just added more basic lands for replacements.
I'm still stuck on Wrath. Here' it's still seems good, and I still see enough Elves, Merfolk and it's ilk to keep Wrath. If that changed, I'm confident I'd go for Vedalken Shackles, without a doubt.
On another note, has anyone ever tried maindecking Runed Halo? I know it seems counterproductive with Engineered Explosives for 2. But, man, Runed Halo stops alot of junk cold.
I've been revising my build recently. I souped up the removal/board control suite at the expense of my card drawing suite (I cut 2 Fact or Fiction for 2 Humility). Is this a bad idea? I finally bit the bullet and cut the 4th Brainstorm too.
Also, if you haven't noticed, this deck has more basics than most lands. I feel it's better for the deck, as I only fetch dual lands when I'm having mana problems.
I've been revising my build recently. I souped up the removal/board control suite at the expense of my card drawing suite (I cut 2 Fact or Fiction for 2 Humility). Is this a bad idea? I finally bit the bullet and cut the 4th Brainstorm too.
Also, if you haven't noticed, this deck has more basics than most lands. I feel it's better for the deck, as I only fetch dual lands when I'm having mana problems.
As an avid Landstill player, I'd rather drop the two path to exiles for two fact or fictions. Fact or fiction and humility would help you in the goblin matchup. It's also good to have alternative draw just in case your in a bad board position and in need of some card draw. Fact or fiction would be good there since it "always" favors the caster. Also, if you can I would maindeck at least 3 Krosan Grips since countertop decks are everywhere. Overall, I think it is a solid list and it would seem like a list I would play in a tournament.
Pretty close to the stock lists on the front page. I have been reading The Source but I really feel the inclusion of Cunning Wish is unnecessary with the versatility of Vindicate.
I'm guessing Cunning Wish is for a more "toolbox" approach. I used to run it just for the classic EOT Cunning Wish>>>Enlightened Tutor>>>>Humility string. Since then, I've moved to Vindicate for the "catchall" kill what resolved dilemma. 10 times out of 10 I'd rather have the ability to just destroy the problem, rather than some fancy pants way around it.
I'm not even sure about Humility anymore either. Sure it kicks creatures teeth in. But, I'm SO sick of EOT Krosan Grip into lay the beats combo..... that just royally sucks. Did I mention I utterly despise Krosan Grip? So, I'm looking for a replacement for Humility. I'm already running the 4th Vindicate, and I still run 2 Humilities. My biggest gripe is the fact when Humility gets nuked, you probably lost, since its creature contol. With K.Grip being so popular, there's no real way to protect it. So, I'm seeing it more and more as a detrament, based on that fact. I think Landstill will end up Speedstill in a few, as the norm. Krosan Grip ensured no control deck can sit on it's laurels and slap down Moat/Humility etc and just sail to victory. That ended. That's why I like Elspeth in the new lists. Her, Decree of Justice and a couple manlands win a lot more quickly. And, at least she can't be gripped.
Problem is these days in Legacy, answers need to be cheap. Even Wrath is expensive. Especially with all these decks running mana denial. It's hard enough to resolve my 4 mana bombs. Anyone have suggestions what to replace Humility with? More removal, etc?
I've recently been tinkering with a wrath-less build that runs vindicate and wish together, the thought being that wishing for spot removal is not always good unless it does something special. I run two blasts because with only one island and any two other land you can cast wish and blast a blood moon effect. The path to exile is mainly for the merfolk match because it's important to pop all their lords, and it helps against dredge once they try to slow roll with ichorid.
3 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ADA] Plains (1)
3 [ADA] Island (1)
1 [R] Scrubland
1 [R] Underground Sea
4 [R] Tundra
// Spells
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [CNF] Path to Exile
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [7E] Counterspell
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [ADA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [TE] Humility
After playing it for a while, I still like the 7 1cc removal spells, but Cunning Wish seems too slow. I'm going to drop them for a Fact or Fiction and a couple Pithing Needles.
As for nevinyrral's disk vs wrath of god debate run wrath of god instead. Just as Emidln previously stated, your risking too much of a liability with relying on disk as your primary mass removal spell in a krosan grip environment.
Yeah... it does seem splashing green is beneficial.
But what do you think about 8 Swords? What's the maximum number of StE and PtE this deck should be running?
Well I usually would run 4 swords to plowshares and 2 or 3 path to exile since I usually have those extra slots for maindeck Krosan Grip as well. I also like to run the combonation of spell snare, counterspell, and force of will for all of those Countertop Aggro-Control decks out there. You just have to play tightly alot of the time in that matchup especially since countertop can still screw you over if your not careful. Which is relevant since most aggro-control balanced builds run more 1-3 casting cost cards and they can bring in more 3cc spells postboard. I also have been testing out Vedalken Shackles and it works well against tribal decks but then again Humility works just as fine or better too.
Just for reference here is the list I have been testing:
3 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
2 Polluted Delta
Creature and Planeswalker
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Jace Beleren
Spells
3 Counterspell
2 Decree of Justice
2 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile
4 Standstill
3 Wrath of God
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
3 Brainstorm
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Decree of Justice
1 Ajani Goldmane
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Runed Halo
1 Krosan Grip
3 Humility
1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Relic of Progenitus
Theory #1: 8 manland, landstill.
Reasons this doesn't work.
-your 2 colored
-Landstill cannot run more then 6 colorless lands and be sucessfull.
-Your prone to forcing yourselfs into ld situations "tempo breaks" with their removal on your lands; which is never a good thing.
-You have to treat your factories as win conditions, and as so you have to be able to protect them. This argument goes along with the whole you need to have the correct color base in order to run lots of manlands; aka one color like merfolk or fae.
Theory #2: 8 Swords is better then 4:
-A large portion of metagames is being wrecked by counterbalance, and there are still decks that are either combo or don't care if you swords their creatures or win conditions because they have the ability to continually produce more. 8 Swords are completely and utterly dead in most of these types of matchups. You can also kiss your thresh matchup goodbye if you choose to approach this when they run counterbalance top.
-I'm not even going to bother and ask what your number split is for removal/draw/permission/win condition's. You need to balance these things out before you truly consider running a landstill model. I would highly recommend testing Konsultant's landstill model and making no adjustmants to get used to how a landstill model traditionally runs/ and then comming back after all that and making your choices. This will give you an idea of where evolution of landstill is going to go.
Also to note; while I completely disagree with path being run in the maindeck, I do believe it does have a place in the sideboard.
Also to the gentlemen who said cunning wish was too slow. I've been playing wish for more then two years in this format. In all of that time fast points in the format and slow; wish is still just fine in terms of speed. I played wish still at gp chicago; and had it not been for some minor flukes I would have played in day 2.
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Pullus per Mucro
As for testing Geoff Smelski's current list, I haven't because I have been concentrating much more on college as of late. Studying Chemistry and Calculus requires alot of time. I often like to play cunning wish landstill builds though just because wish gives you so much flexiblity and the more flexibility you have when playing control the better off you'll be in my opinion. Also, I pretty much like all of the landstill builds that Geoff Smelski plays even when he's having an off tournament.
I'm playing this both in the local Legacy tourneys (where it's doing fairly well - the TO decided to go 25 proxy to give people the tools to beat me) and in MTGO Classic, where I'm getting wrecked because WotC seems to think that a Legacy-lite format with Demonic Consultation is at all fun.
2 Exalted Angel
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
4 Force of Will
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Dissipate
4 Counterspell
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
2 Plains
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Engineered Plague
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Stifle
3 Leyline of the Void
The Classic metagame is somewhat different from the Legacy one, owing mostly to Demonic Consultation's legality. Because of this, my sideboard in this build is tweaked more toward beating the Necropotence/Soul Spike and Ad Nauseam/Tendrils combo decks that I run into in the 2-man queues. Engineered Plague screws Goblins and Merfolk, and the Canonists were intended to be another foil for the storm decks, but aren't working out too well, usually because I'm dead before I get two mana half the time against these decks. What'd be better for the Legacy metagames you're seeing?
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
If your running into that many AD Nauseam Tendrils decks I would maindeck meddling mage as oppose to Dissipate either that or orim's chant. I usually name Tendrils for the first meddling mage and for the other mages you could start naming tutors and such. Spell snare could also help the matchup too since it counters infernal tutors and cabal ritual. Meddling mage could also serve it's purpose against those demonic consultation decks you have been seeing as well.
In the board you could run something like but you don't have to follow it:
4 Orim's Chant
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
3 Humility(Yes it's that good against goblins and possibly merfolks too especially since cursecatcher can't really counter Humility)
You probably will have to drop the exalteds and Teferis if your running humility though but those are easily replacable with countermagic, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and possibly Ajani Goldmane. Maindeck Extirpates seems weird but I can see how they could help your matchup versus Ad Nauseam Tendrils.
This part is actually easy. I need a meta-game though to help you. So breakdown the regular decks that show up and the problems your having.
I have no experiance against these decks, so I don't know how much use I will be on this end, but I can tighten up your list for you.
cut angel add plowshares +1 for slots currently
Cut teferi, theres not enough protection in this format to make teferi viable. Cut dissipate and throw in spell snare. Spell snare is simply put stronger across the board. Your not +3 for slots
Cut pate. Your now +6 for slots.
Your much better of tuning your lands towards your model. In this case do something like this:
As for the rest, this I think is very close if not the exact list konsultant plays.
I think he runs a dragon and a crucible, as well as fact or fiction, but frankly I like the way this list looks as far as vindicate still. As far as your online meta who knows what to do on there. You'd have to show me a list for online demonic consultation decks.
Your sideboard really depends on what you expect to play against obviously. I would rather see something like this though for a general sideboard
4 Meddling Mage
3 Engineered plague
3 Hydroblast
2 Ajani
3- Empty slot runed halo/ Cannnonist/ Stifle if your looking at storm combo.
Pullus per Mucro
Local Legacy metagame: No problems as of yet, I haven't shown up to one of the newly proxy-ified events to see what the kiddies are doing with proxies. It was basically just Standard stuff with a few older cards thrown in in the past. Merfolk was the only real deck I ran into, and I slaughtered that horribly (had Wrath in the board instead of Ethersworn Canonist). There's a guy who always plays a Stasis deck, but FoW + Extirpate = GG there. I'm far more worried about the Classic matchups this thing runs into. I'm only asking about that here because the Classic forum was dead even before I made it.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Pullus per Mucro
3 polluted delta
4 tundra
2 underground sea
1 scrubland
2 island
1 plains
1 swamp
4 mishra's factory
3 wasteland
3 standstill
2 fact or fiction
2 counterspell
4 spell snare
4 force of will
4 swords to plowshares
3 engineered explosives
3 vindicate
3 tidehollow sculler
2 elspeth, knight errant
1 decree of justice
1 crucible of worlds
4 relic of projenitus
4 blue elemental blast
3 meddling mage
I absolute love sculler because he buys so much time against crap like combo and counterbalance, letting you find countermagic or removal for whatever the problem is. Let me make it clear that I do not expect them to stick long enough to get elspeth protection, they're simple disruption and maybe 2-4 point of damage. I've already tested vendillion clique and in my experience I hate that they get to draw a card, in legacy it's usually just as good as what you pulled unless it's land. So anyway, let me know if you have any more metagame suggestions. Thanks!
:symu::symw::symb: Vindicatestill
Vintage:
:symu::symb::symr::symw: sphinx slaver
Pullus per Mucro
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BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
I'm ready to try out Elspeth. Has anyone here played with her? If so, whats your verdict? I have 2 flex slots to work with. Right now they are filled by FoFiction.
:symu::symw::symb: Vindicatestill
Vintage:
:symu::symb::symr::symw: sphinx slaver
Pullus per Mucro
Well, now I'm rearranging my manabase, a bit. More stability. I dropped Mishra's Factory to 3, no Wastelands anymore, and I might take out Tolaria West too. Leaving only Academy Ruins, and Mishra's Factory as the only colorless sources. I just added more basic lands for replacements.
I'm still stuck on Wrath. Here' it's still seems good, and I still see enough Elves, Merfolk and it's ilk to keep Wrath. If that changed, I'm confident I'd go for Vedalken Shackles, without a doubt.
On another note, has anyone ever tried maindecking Runed Halo? I know it seems counterproductive with Engineered Explosives for 2. But, man, Runed Halo stops alot of junk cold.
you can also check clemslansing.com/forums for my own personal landstill thread that is more of a journal.
Pullus per Mucro
4 Mishras Factory
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Academy Ruins (or Forest)
4 Island
4 Plains
Win (5)
2 Eternal Dragon
3 Decree of Justice
Permission (11)
3 Spell Snare
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Draw (7)
3 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
Removal (12)
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
3 Wrath of God
3 Engineered Explosives
Other (2)
2 Humility
Sideboard (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Path to Exile
3 Runed Halo
2 Ajani Goldmane
1 Elseph, Knight-Errant
4 Krosan Grip
I've been revising my build recently. I souped up the removal/board control suite at the expense of my card drawing suite (I cut 2 Fact or Fiction for 2 Humility). Is this a bad idea? I finally bit the bullet and cut the 4th Brainstorm too.
Also, if you haven't noticed, this deck has more basics than most lands. I feel it's better for the deck, as I only fetch dual lands when I'm having mana problems.
As an avid Landstill player, I'd rather drop the two path to exiles for two fact or fictions. Fact or fiction and humility would help you in the goblin matchup. It's also good to have alternative draw just in case your in a bad board position and in need of some card draw. Fact or fiction would be good there since it "always" favors the caster. Also, if you can I would maindeck at least 3 Krosan Grips since countertop decks are everywhere. Overall, I think it is a solid list and it would seem like a list I would play in a tournament.
4 Tundra
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
Win:
1 Eternal Dragon
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Decree of Justice
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
3 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Vindicate
3 Wrath of God
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Meddling Mage
4 Engineered Plague
3 Runed Halo
2 Ajani Goldmane
2 Chainer's Edict
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
I'm not even sure about Humility anymore either. Sure it kicks creatures teeth in. But, I'm SO sick of EOT Krosan Grip into lay the beats combo..... that just royally sucks. Did I mention I utterly despise Krosan Grip? So, I'm looking for a replacement for Humility. I'm already running the 4th Vindicate, and I still run 2 Humilities. My biggest gripe is the fact when Humility gets nuked, you probably lost, since its creature contol. With K.Grip being so popular, there's no real way to protect it. So, I'm seeing it more and more as a detrament, based on that fact. I think Landstill will end up Speedstill in a few, as the norm. Krosan Grip ensured no control deck can sit on it's laurels and slap down Moat/Humility etc and just sail to victory. That ended. That's why I like Elspeth in the new lists. Her, Decree of Justice and a couple manlands win a lot more quickly. And, at least she can't be gripped.
Problem is these days in Legacy, answers need to be cheap. Even Wrath is expensive. Especially with all these decks running mana denial. It's hard enough to resolve my 4 mana bombs. Anyone have suggestions what to replace Humility with? More removal, etc?
3 wasteland
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
4 tundra
1 underground sea
1 scrubland
1 swamp
2 island
2 plains
4 brainstorm
3 standstill
2 cunning wish
2 sensei's divining top
2 counterspell
4 spell snare
4 force of will
3 engineered explosives
3 vindicate
2 elspeth, knight errant
2 decree of justice
1 crucible of worlds
1 humility
3 runed halo
3 relic of projenitus
2 tormod's crypt
1 blue elemental blast
1 hydroblast
1 path to exile
1 pulse of the fields
1 return to dust
1 extirpate
1 enlightened tutor
Hey, this list might even be mossivo-approved except for the two counterspells.
:symu::symw::symb: Vindicatestill
Vintage:
:symu::symb::symr::symw: sphinx slaver