If im not happy to find a sinkhole late game i wouldnt be happy to see a bob either.
If you want to see DS only late game I'd only run 1-2.
3 you're going to see them in your opening hand too often.
I really think if you want to dun DS theres no reason why you have to play him with Bob. Just run all 4 snuff outs and run DS in the reanimate spot as a 1 or 2 of.
Im not saying i think its good, but i think its better than running bob instead of sinkhole. One give you tempo and one gives you CA... and the former is a lot more important in this deck.
Death's Shadow does not make sense in this deck. With the number of cards in this format, he just does not cut it. Also, when you are at really low life, you will have quite a few lands in play. There is no reason to play a 1-drop that is only situationally good in the late game.
Yeah, Death's Shadow pretty much sucked after playtesting
It's just that I want to play Bob, I almost need to play him, but I can't find any deck space and indeed he doesn't seem to fit in the tempo orientated strategy of the deck.
I had that problem too- then i just made a BW deck w/ him based around Card Advantage and that got rid of that problem.
On another note- Does anyone play Chalice of the Void in SB? most builds only run Ritual and Thoughtseize in the 1cc slot. Theres a lot of decks chalice at 1 could improve.
but they're also the decks that thoughtseize inproves... doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
on a side note (Throst54).. i think it's pretty funny that we keep posting in all of the same threads. starting to feel like i should buy you a drink! :xd:
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
allright, the next time anyone of you guys comes near chicago, give me a shout!
geeny- whats the point of the miser nighthawk? wouldn't you rather it be another removal spell? and please don't try and tell me he is a removal spell.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Its okay, i decided to go with the 3 hypie 2 hawk split because i only had 3 FBB hypies.
Also, coincidentally, my drink of choice it also rum and coke popeye.
@ Greeny
How do you like the MB grips? Do you have a ton of aggro in your meta?
If so, since aggro doesnt really refill their hand fast you could probably goto hyppie/hawk 3/2 split since hawk is generally better in that matchup.
Or even just change the 1 hawk to a reanimate since it will almost always be a late game draw and reanimate will (probably) give you more choices.
Mostly i wonder why you have just once hawk...
Have either of you tried replacing yours 4th nantuko shade with a Putrid Leech?
Have either of you tried replacing yours 4th nantuko shade with a Putrid Leech?
I used to run the leech... he is much better, IF you don't run into a lot of wastelands in your meta. i stoped using it becasue there was a lot of team america, canadian thresh and stax running around here... meaning it was harder to cast my green spells. also why i don't run pulse. i prefer 3 snuff out, 2 doomblade (but if anyone starts running bob, then i'll swith over to smother).
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I'd really like to get some discussion going about Jitte. It seems like some people play it, and some do not, although no one ever seems to discuss why. The correct number of Jitte's is the hardest thing for me to decide in this deck. I currently run 1 MD - my current list being:
I am always happy to see it, but cutting something else for another doesn't make much sense to me. I think playing Nighthawk and Gatekeeper make Jitte quite better by the way...
Popeye: I notice you're using Doomblade as a 2-off instead of Gatekeeper...how is that working for you? Don't you worry about Progenitus/Mongoose?
i always like the instant speed removal and don't care too much for the BBB cost of gatekeeper. i'm not worried about mongoose at all, as you can block with a bigger creature. progenitus is a small problem, but you "should" be able to remove the NO before it's played.. or kill the heirarch before they have 4 mana up. perish from the board helps alot too.
about jitte:
when/if i play it, it's usually 1 maindecked and 1 more in the board, for stuff like goblins, merfolks, burn. it really is slow though, which is why you don't see it often in eva green.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I play 2 Jitte in the board, normally. Sometimes I'll bring one or both to the main deck if I know my meta is going to be really aggro-heavy, but I haven't played in a meta like that in a while, so I keep it in the board for my Goblins and occasional Zoo match-up.
I run both. I love both. They're both really important cards to the deck, imo. I don't think Nighthawk is a replacement for Hyppie, though, since they don't fill the same role.
What do you guys honestly think about Nighthawk? I personally don't think it's a replacement for Hippy (ever), even not in an aggro-ish environment, since Hippy is an important part of our disruption.
I'd like to hear your personal opinions on this.
I really love Nighthawk over Hyppie. Not only do I count it towards my disruption back (in psuedo-removal) but he's a 2/3 flyer with lifelink which helps in my battle against Thoughtseize, fetches, etc. I understand Hyppies purpose and I definitley am not against those who choose to run it, but as for my personal preference, I vrun 4x Nighthawks.
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Decks
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual) GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual) (G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy) BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy) (B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
its not really disruption, hes just removal.
I'll almost never want to play a T1 nighthawk off of a ritual, and most people wont feel very threatened by it. But a T1 Specter has to be answered.
Hawk is good in that people dont want to attack into it, so it has an affect on the board before it enters the attack phase.
Jitte seems to me to be a wasted slot in the maindeck if you arent running a very creature heavy list upwards of 20 creatures, otherwise it'll be a dead card too often.
While jitte really is very versatile, geberally our beaters are biig enough and we have enough removal so jitte will usually be used for life....or pump if you have nothing better to do
So i've been doing some testing and found that one of the biggest hurts to eva green is top decking situational cards (dark ritual, duress, sinkhole). I consider them situational since they aren't good all the time you draw them, as in you draw sinkhole when getting bashed in by a knight of the reliquary or facing an opponent with crucible of worlds out. So here's my new take on the eva green deck.
gatekeeper - card advantage thats great against zoo, giving me a chumper and taking out one of their's.
nighthawk - lessens the effect of our suicidal tendencies and can take out that huge goyf or knight or dreadnought or.....
deathmark - some of the best beaters, wild nacatl, knight, terravore, tarmogoyf, qasali pridemage are easily taken out by it.
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Currently Playing: Legacy
:symb::symr:Vial Goblins:symr::symb:
:symu::symb:Dredge:symu::symb: EDH
:symg::symb::symw:Teneb, the Harvester:symg::symb::symw:
:symb::symb::symb:Skittles, The Blight Dragon:symb::symb::symb:
Went 3-2 in a weekend tournament, I posted report on mtgthesource, will re-post here.
On May 8, 17 players participated in the Mox Tournament at The Connection Games in Vancouver, British Columbia. Tournament structure was 5 rounds Swiss with a cut to playoffs for Top 4. First prize was an Unlimited Mox Pearl followed by Moat for second. Third and fourth place received store credit.
Considering the average size of the Legacy crowd in Vancouver, turnout was above average. Prize payout attracted the regulars although I suspected a more Legacy-skewing prize pool would have attracted even more players.
The tournament was announced a couple of weeks ago, giving me time to consider the decks at my disposal. I tried different decks over the past months to varying degrees of success: Eva Green, Team America, Merfolk and UW Tempo. Of the 4 archetypes, UW Tempo really stood out and I wanted to give it a try. In testing it proved to be a good deck that rewarded tight play, but I didn’t have enough play skill to do it justice. I was expecting significant amounts of Tribal so that ruled out Team America. In the end I went with a traditional Eva Green build that I was comfortable with.
Maindeck:
3x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Pithing Needle
3x Krosan Grip
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Engineered Plague
I opted for the more traditional build without Maelstrom Pulse, preferring to save my 3 Bayous for Goyf/Krosan Grip, and not worry about playing 3 CC sorceries. A lot of decks in Legacy have easily disruptable mana bases and I wanted to minimize the chances of that happening to me.
I went with 6 maindeck Thoughtseize effects so that I would get them consistently in my opening hand. The Thoughtseize/Duress/Inquisition breakdown looks funny, but I wanted to have a balance of being able to hit 4 CC spells vs. not losing too much life versus aggro. If I could do it again, I’d probably go with 2/2/2 Seize/Inquisition/Duress split – being able to hit FoW and Natural Order is critical.
In prior builds I had added Arena/Bob for card draw effects, but it diluted the deck to a state where it was more Rock than Eva Green. This deck needs to hit the gate running – if I wasn’t trying to empty my hand ASAP then the deck isn’t doing what it’s supposed to do.
I hate graveyard shenanigans with a passion so 4x Leyline was a no-brainer.
The deck demands aggressive mulligans, especially with Leyline in the mix, but it’s been working well for me and I wanted the chance to hate out Merfolk/Goblins.
Round 1 – John vs. playing Combo Elves
Game 1:
John is playing the combo elves build without Natural Order. He ramps quickly by getting elves on the table, while I Sinkhole an early Forest. I disrupt with early Thoughtseize and Hymn effects, and see a Glimpse of Nature as well as Mirror Entity go to the graveyard.
John is operating off no lands after the initial Sinkhole, but he has a number of mana-producing elves in play. I am unable to find Shade or Goyf, and finally draw into a Tombstalker. After casting it, we start to race with his elves/insects vs. my singleton Tombstalker.
Unfortunately, he is able to use one of the elves’ abilities to return an elf to hand, so that I am not able to kill his guys. I finally find a Goyf but he races me for the win. I had paid 4 life to Snuff Out a creature earlier in the match and my life total was too low to make a comeback.
Game 2:
This game starts out much better as I first turn Ritual for E-Plague naming Elf. He gets stalled for some time and is only able to play the 2/2 elf that untaps when another Elf spell is played. Not much to say about this one, except that I disrupt his hand and drop 2 Goyfs for the win.
Game 3:
I get another good hand with Ritual, E-Plague, Goyf and Hymn. He plays first turn Forest, Llanowar Elves, go. I play first turn E-Plague again. Somehow I draw into 2 more Goyfs and the 3 Llurgoyfs help secure the win.
I wasn’t expecting Elves, but I’m really glad the Tribal hate worked on them.
1-0-0
Round 2 – vs. Kiel playing Reanimator
I knew he was playing Reanimator from watching his first Round. This can be a bad matchup for Eva Green, so I prepared for the worst.
Game 1:
I mull to 6, then 5, then 4 trying to find first turn discard. With 4 cards, I am still unable to find discard so I keep.
He goes for early Careful Study, discarding Sphinx. Sphinx gets on the table and I don’t find one of my Snuff Outs. I play Hypnotic Specter, thinking that if I draw into a Tombstalker I would have an out. The Specter sits idle vs. Sphinx while he hits me for 6 a turn. Finally, I draw into Tombstalker but I don’t have a high enough Delve count. He ends the game at 30+ life with the lifelinking Sphinx.
SB:
+4 Leyline
-4 Sinkhole
I wanted to keep the Snuff Outs in the deck in case he was playing Blazing Archon.
Game 2:
I get turn zero Leyline and play Thoughtseize first turn. I see Chain-Entomb-Exhume-Daze and 3 lands. I choose Chain of Vapors and Hymn on turn 3, taking Entomb and Daze. While he tries to draw into a Leyline answer, I drop a Specter and force him to discard a couple more cards. He is unable to topdeck an answer – Specter and Tombstalker help me get the win.
Game 3:
I mull to 5 until I get turn zero Leyline. He was obviously ready for this strategy, and I could only hope to keep him topdecking with my discard effects. On turn 2 I Thoughtseize and see FoW-FoW-Entomb-Exhume-Polluted Delta. I take the Exhume and draw 2 more Leylines into my hand.
About 8 turns in, I make a huge misplay when I tap out to cast Tombstalker instead of waiting another turn, thinking he only had 2 cards in hand and “what were the chances he would have a Daze”. Of course, he has the Daze. Fortunately, as another player pointed out after the match, he doesn’t realize he can reanimate the Tombstalker sitting in my graveyard.
In the end I get 3 Leylines on the table (baiting an Echoing Truth) with 1 more Leyline in my hand. We start topdecking for about 3000 turns and he doesn’t find any of his Tutors. I start beating in eventually with a second Tombstalker and take the match.
Had he reanimated my Tombstalker, he probably could have won the match by forcing a Tombstalker vs. Tombstalker standoff.
This was a scary matchup for my deck. I’m glad I made it out alive
2-0-0
Round 3 – vs. Tom playing Stax
Game 1:
I lose the die roll but he doesn’t play T1 Chalice. I play T2 Inquisition and see Ancient Tomb-Ghostly Prison-Magus of the Tabernacle-Chalice. I take the Chalice. The turn after, I drop a Nantuko Shade on and Shade starts to attack through his Ghostly Prison. I find and play a Hypnotic Specter – definitely a good thing as he gets a Moat into play. Moat is soon joined by Crucible and Tabernacle.
He’s taking damage from his own Ancient Tomb paying for stuff. At one point I forget to pay the Tabernacle upkeep for Shade/Specter, and they bite the dust. I resolve a Tombstalker on the following turn and despite recurring Horizon Canopy w/ Crucible he is unable to find an answer in time.
SB:
+4 Leyline, +3 Grip
-4 Sinkhole, -2 Nighthawk, -1 Snuff Out
Boarding in Leyline was probably unnecessary, but I wanted to combat Crucible.
Game 2:
He gets the God draw and plays City of Traitors, Mox Diamond, Grindstone, Painter’s Servant naming black all on the first turn. He goes off next turn and my Snuff Out sits in hand not doing anything – I am no longer able to target the Servant as he’s now a black creature.
SB:
-4 Leyline
+1 Snuff Out, +2 Needle, +1 Nighthawk
After seeing him play the Painter/Grindstone Combo, I wanted to have a bit of extra insurance. The Leylines didn’t seem all that great if I was facing a T1/T2 kill.
Game 3:
I mull to 5 without first turn discard in my hand but I have a Krosan Grip. He gets the same great hand as Game 2 – City, Mox, Grindstone, Servant. I look at my hand and I do have an answer – turn 2 I Krosan Grip the Servant off a Bayou / Dark Ritual before he gets to activate next turn.
I’m thinking, OK he had another God hand, but I can hold him off for a little while…
Turn 3 he topdecks another Servant and goes off. Ouch.
Frustrating matchup, he goes for the transformational sideboard for Games 2 and 3 and I can’t stop the combo. We joke afterwards that maybe I shouldn’t be shuffling and cutting his deck, since I’m giving him great draws.
2-1-0
Round 4 – vs. Gavin playing Canadian Thresh
Game 1:
I win the die roll and start the game by playing T1 Thoughtseize. I see Clique-Ponder-Mongoose-Fire/Ice and three lands. I take the Mongoose. He Ponders, plays a fetch land, and passes turn. I follow up with Hymn but he has a Spell Snare ready. I wasteland one of his tropical islands and drop a Goyf. Goyf resolves and starts beating face.
He drops his own Goyf and the ground is stalled until I drop a Nighthawk. He has a Clique but Clique’s CIP effect helps me find a Hymn to remove more cards from his hand. He decides to trade his Clique for my Nighthawk when I attack into him. The Goyfs stare at each other until I resolve Tombstalker and the Demon flies in for the win.
Having Tombstalker in this matchup is awesome as his burn spells aren’t enough. Even if he had answers, he would have to 2-for-1 to get rid of the flying Demon.
SB:
Nothing. I pretend I’m siding a couple cards, but I don’t think I need to SB anything.
Game 2:
He’s quite mana screwed this time. I open with turn 1 Nighthawk. He gets lands out but I start to play Wasteland/Sinkhole on them.
He Spell Snares my Hymn and after baiting out some initial countermagic I get Shade and Specter down. Despite Ponder and double Brainstorm he has difficulty finding lands – my disruption leaves him with a basic Island and Wasteland staring down all my Swamps. I have Shade, Specter and Nighthawk all attacking until he finds a Goyf. He scoops when I Snuff Out his Goyf and fly in for the kill.
I’m pretty happy with this matchup. I think Eva Green does well in these types of situations.
3-1-0
Round 5 – vs. Dereck playing Merfolk
At this point there are several people with 3-1 records. We do the math and decide to play out our match, and only ID if another matchup finishes in our favor (it doesn’t).
He’s playing Merfolk with Green splash for Goyf.
Game 1:
I get a decent jump on him early in the game with discard effects. My first Duress reveals Goyf-Daze-Adept-Reejerey-Standstill-Wasteland and 2 fetchlands. I take the Standstill. He gets 2 Merrow Reejereys out and it’s racing time with my lone Tombstalker. I get Goyf down only to meet his Goyf – I’m starting to see the value of Merfolk splashing for the almighty Llurgoyf, he’s just an awesome wall!
We start fighting an attrition battle. He sacrifices a Mutavault to my Goyf so that his Goyf can get in for beats. I believe our Goyfs grow to be 6/7.
I get him down to 3 life but he topdecks a third Reejerey, taps my Goyf and gets the kill. I’m one turn too late.
This battle was a lot more drawn out and playing around Daze probably cost me the game.
I get a decent hand and land first turn Needle naming Aether Vial. I’m thinking this shuts down a lot of his tempo, but interestingly he tells me after the game that he boarded out Vial. Not really sure why since he was still playing Standstill…
This game I also have some early hand disruption. I land Inquisition followed by Duress. He makes a mistake by letting Duress resolve, thinking that it couldn’t grab FoW. I take the Force.
Soon, he lands Mutavault/Standstill with no creatures on board. I topdeck Wasteland like a champ and kill his Changeling land. We start waiting it out until I decide “screw it, I’m breaking the Standstill since I have E-Plague and Tombstalker in my hand”. He was already -1 card advantage due to playing a Force, why not right?
My thought process is: I have E-Plague and Tombstalker in hand, and I want to resolve the E-Plague. If I draw into a second E-Plague the game is over. So my first move is to Ritual out a Tombstalker to “bait” the Force. He counters ‘Stalker and next turn I play E-Plague.
Here’s where it gets interesting. He gets a 1/1 Reejerey out, and I start topdecking nothing but Snuff Outs … 3 of them over 5 turns. I only have 4 mana open, and when he plays a Reejerey I lose 4 life to play Snuff Out not wanting to get hit with Daze. I lose another 4 life to kill his Goyf.
I play my own Goyf and make the mistake of playing a Jitte instead of Jitte-quipping Goyf in 1 go next turn – I only had 5 mana and wanted to see if I could use the mana on a topdecked ‘Stalker or Shade next turn. He plays his own Jitte to kill mine. He then plays Threads of Disloyalty to steal my Goyf.
When this happens, I have to Snuff Out my stolen Goyf and lose another 4 life – at this point I only had 4 lands due to one of my Bayous getting Wastelanded, and I didn’t want to risk getting Dazed.
He is able to play 2 more Lords and I’m unable to recover even with 1 Tombstalker on table.
3-2-0
I didn’t stick around to watch the Top 4 final but I knew that 2 of the players were Tom (Stax) and Dereck (Merfolk). I’m not sure what place I ended up in, but it wasn’t in the top 4 so I didn’t give it much thought.
After playing the deck, what did I learn?
4x Snuff Out *really* hurts vs. aggro - perhaps I will try a 2/2 Snuff Out split with either Smother or Ghastly Demise next time. It just hurts too much to lose 8-12 life in a match. Counterbalance isn’t as scary as aggro, and there aren’t many CB decks in my meta because aggro takes care of it
Maelstrom Pulse may be a worthy inclusion – yes it’s a slow sorcery, but it does great vs. multiple Reejerey, artifacts and random stuff.
Jitte isn’t necessary – there weren’t many matchups (both ones I played and ones I saw others play) where boarding in Jitte would have made a big difference. Against Merfolk and Goblins E-Plague is the first choice, and my creatures are simply bigger than theirs. It’s too slow to shut down decks like Painter-Grindstone and I would prefer putting in Choke, K. Grip #4 or Needle #3. If I'm facing Jitte I can either Needle or Grip it.
The next day, I do a 10K race and enjoy the rare sunny day in Vancouver. So overall, an awesome weekend Thanks for reading.
***UPDATE:***
T4 was
1) NO-Bant
2) Dragon Stompy
3) White Stax
4) UG Merfolk
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My book Magic: The Addiction -- now available on Amazon.
reanimator only runs about 16 lands.. don't know that i would have taken out sinkhole, as you can really cripple him.
granted he only needs one land, but that can very likely be his only land.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
a straight 4 for 4.. i would have boarded out the snuff outs in a heart beat. iona on black is going to be his first and best move. even if he had a blazing archon game one, it probably went to the board game 2.
@JusSin- believe it or not, and i've played eva A LOT, i've actually never played it against landstill, so i can't say for sure. but in theory i would think we would kill them. they're slow, you thoughseize thier few major threats or removal, and lay down the beats. just a theory though.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I haven't played Eva against a Landstill deck on a competitive level. However I have tested against it in several MWS games, and while you would think that Eva Green is faster than most landstill decks, that simply is not necessarily the case. The Landstill decks have superior card advantage, superior stall tactics, and if they can land a humility (if they are running it) then they can completely cripple our creatures in many cases.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
it's just a rock deck, not bringing "the Suicide archetype to the next level".
i also agree with mr.cakes.
and if i were playing the tutor board, i'd play 3 tutors, not 2. just my 2cents though.
edit..
just read that article.. there's time i'll never get back, what a waste. i hate it when people want to look cool by writting an article, only to write a bunch of commonly known facts, thanks a lot captain obvious. Oh, and lets top it off with an uninspired, unoriginal, and unproven, rock deck.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
well the man seems to be writting to those who have played/would like to play suicide.
with those people in mind, he's just restateing a bunch of facts that we all aready know.
and it's pretty obvious to those who don't play it as well.
like, really... you DIDN'T know that tombstalker and snuff out hurt when playing bob? you DIDN'T know that blacks removal has drawbacks, and swords is king in this department? come on man
and i'm all for splashing white. if you'd follow this thread, i've been one of the splashes main supporters.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
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If you want to see DS only late game I'd only run 1-2.
3 you're going to see them in your opening hand too often.
I really think if you want to dun DS theres no reason why you have to play him with Bob. Just run all 4 snuff outs and run DS in the reanimate spot as a 1 or 2 of.
Im not saying i think its good, but i think its better than running bob instead of sinkhole. One give you tempo and one gives you CA... and the former is a lot more important in this deck.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
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Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I had that problem too- then i just made a BW deck w/ him based around Card Advantage and that got rid of that problem.
On another note- Does anyone play Chalice of the Void in SB? most builds only run Ritual and Thoughtseize in the 1cc slot. Theres a lot of decks chalice at 1 could improve.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
on a side note (Throst54).. i think it's pretty funny that we keep posting in all of the same threads. starting to feel like i should buy you a drink! :xd:
geeny- whats the point of the miser nighthawk? wouldn't you rather it be another removal spell? and please don't try and tell me he is a removal spell.
Also, coincidentally, my drink of choice it also rum and coke popeye.
@ Greeny
How do you like the MB grips? Do you have a ton of aggro in your meta?
If so, since aggro doesnt really refill their hand fast you could probably goto hyppie/hawk 3/2 split since hawk is generally better in that matchup.
Or even just change the 1 hawk to a reanimate since it will almost always be a late game draw and reanimate will (probably) give you more choices.
Mostly i wonder why you have just once hawk...
Have either of you tried replacing yours 4th nantuko shade with a Putrid Leech?
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I used to run the leech... he is much better, IF you don't run into a lot of wastelands in your meta. i stoped using it becasue there was a lot of team america, canadian thresh and stax running around here... meaning it was harder to cast my green spells. also why i don't run pulse. i prefer 3 snuff out, 2 doomblade (but if anyone starts running bob, then i'll swith over to smother).
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Tombstalker
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
2 Smother
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Vindicate
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
3 Extirpate
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Choke
4 Engineered Plague
I am always happy to see it, but cutting something else for another doesn't make much sense to me. I think playing Nighthawk and Gatekeeper make Jitte quite better by the way...
i always like the instant speed removal and don't care too much for the BBB cost of gatekeeper. i'm not worried about mongoose at all, as you can block with a bigger creature. progenitus is a small problem, but you "should" be able to remove the NO before it's played.. or kill the heirarch before they have 4 mana up. perish from the board helps alot too.
about jitte:
when/if i play it, it's usually 1 maindecked and 1 more in the board, for stuff like goblins, merfolks, burn. it really is slow though, which is why you don't see it often in eva green.
[180 classic cube]
[180 classic cube]
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I really love Nighthawk over Hyppie. Not only do I count it towards my disruption back (in psuedo-removal) but he's a 2/3 flyer with lifelink which helps in my battle against Thoughtseize, fetches, etc. I understand Hyppies purpose and I definitley am not against those who choose to run it, but as for my personal preference, I vrun 4x Nighthawks.
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual)
GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual)
(G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy)
BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy)
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
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I'll almost never want to play a T1 nighthawk off of a ritual, and most people wont feel very threatened by it. But a T1 Specter has to be answered.
Hawk is good in that people dont want to attack into it, so it has an affect on the board before it enters the attack phase.
Jitte seems to me to be a wasted slot in the maindeck if you arent running a very creature heavy list upwards of 20 creatures, otherwise it'll be a dead card too often.
While jitte really is very versatile, geberally our beaters are biig enough and we have enough removal so jitte will usually be used for life....or pump if you have nothing better to do
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
4 tombstalker
3 vampire nighthawk
3 gatekeeper of malakir
4 nantuko shade
4 tarmogoyf
Other Spells: 21
3 maelstrom pulse
2 sylvan library
3 snuff out
4 smother
4 hymn to tourach
2 thoughtseize
3 duress
7 swamp
1 forest
4 bayou
4 verdant catacombs
2 marsh flats
3 wasteland
3 krosan grip
3 engineered plague
3 deathmark
2 pernicous deed
4 tormod's crypt
Some of the unusual choices:
Sylvan library - i hate top decking duress after my opponent has played out his hand, or if i need a threat now.
maelstrom pulse - answers everything, literally everything except lands and top.
gatekeeper - card advantage thats great against zoo, giving me a chumper and taking out one of their's.
nighthawk - lessens the effect of our suicidal tendencies and can take out that huge goyf or knight or dreadnought or.....
deathmark - some of the best beaters, wild nacatl, knight, terravore, tarmogoyf, qasali pridemage are easily taken out by it.
Legacy
:symb::symr:Vial Goblins:symr::symb:
:symu::symb:Dredge:symu::symb:
EDH
:symg::symb::symw:Teneb, the Harvester:symg::symb::symw:
:symb::symb::symb:Skittles, The Blight Dragon:symb::symb::symb:
On May 8, 17 players participated in the Mox Tournament at The Connection Games in Vancouver, British Columbia. Tournament structure was 5 rounds Swiss with a cut to playoffs for Top 4. First prize was an Unlimited Mox Pearl followed by Moat for second. Third and fourth place received store credit.
Considering the average size of the Legacy crowd in Vancouver, turnout was above average. Prize payout attracted the regulars although I suspected a more Legacy-skewing prize pool would have attracted even more players.
The tournament was announced a couple of weeks ago, giving me time to consider the decks at my disposal. I tried different decks over the past months to varying degrees of success: Eva Green, Team America, Merfolk and UW Tempo. Of the 4 archetypes, UW Tempo really stood out and I wanted to give it a try. In testing it proved to be a good deck that rewarded tight play, but I didn’t have enough play skill to do it justice. I was expecting significant amounts of Tribal so that ruled out Team America. In the end I went with a traditional Eva Green build that I was comfortable with.
Maindeck:
3x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Sinkhole
4x Dark Ritual
4x Snuff Out
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Nantuko Shade
4x Tombstalker
3x Hypnotic Specter
2x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Polluted Delta
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x Bayou
6x Swamp
Sideboard:
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Pithing Needle
3x Krosan Grip
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Engineered Plague
I opted for the more traditional build without Maelstrom Pulse, preferring to save my 3 Bayous for Goyf/Krosan Grip, and not worry about playing 3 CC sorceries. A lot of decks in Legacy have easily disruptable mana bases and I wanted to minimize the chances of that happening to me.
I went with 6 maindeck Thoughtseize effects so that I would get them consistently in my opening hand. The Thoughtseize/Duress/Inquisition breakdown looks funny, but I wanted to have a balance of being able to hit 4 CC spells vs. not losing too much life versus aggro. If I could do it again, I’d probably go with 2/2/2 Seize/Inquisition/Duress split – being able to hit FoW and Natural Order is critical.
In prior builds I had added Arena/Bob for card draw effects, but it diluted the deck to a state where it was more Rock than Eva Green. This deck needs to hit the gate running – if I wasn’t trying to empty my hand ASAP then the deck isn’t doing what it’s supposed to do.
I hate graveyard shenanigans with a passion so 4x Leyline was a no-brainer.
The deck demands aggressive mulligans, especially with Leyline in the mix, but it’s been working well for me and I wanted the chance to hate out Merfolk/Goblins.
Round 1 – John vs. playing Combo Elves
Game 1:
John is playing the combo elves build without Natural Order. He ramps quickly by getting elves on the table, while I Sinkhole an early Forest. I disrupt with early Thoughtseize and Hymn effects, and see a Glimpse of Nature as well as Mirror Entity go to the graveyard.
John is operating off no lands after the initial Sinkhole, but he has a number of mana-producing elves in play. I am unable to find Shade or Goyf, and finally draw into a Tombstalker. After casting it, we start to race with his elves/insects vs. my singleton Tombstalker.
Unfortunately, he is able to use one of the elves’ abilities to return an elf to hand, so that I am not able to kill his guys. I finally find a Goyf but he races me for the win. I had paid 4 life to Snuff Out a creature earlier in the match and my life total was too low to make a comeback.
SB:
+4 E-Plague, +2 Jitte
-4 Sinkhole, -1 Shade, -1 Hypnotic Specter
Game 2:
This game starts out much better as I first turn Ritual for E-Plague naming Elf. He gets stalled for some time and is only able to play the 2/2 elf that untaps when another Elf spell is played. Not much to say about this one, except that I disrupt his hand and drop 2 Goyfs for the win.
Game 3:
I get another good hand with Ritual, E-Plague, Goyf and Hymn. He plays first turn Forest, Llanowar Elves, go. I play first turn E-Plague again. Somehow I draw into 2 more Goyfs and the 3 Llurgoyfs help secure the win.
I wasn’t expecting Elves, but I’m really glad the Tribal hate worked on them.
1-0-0
Round 2 – vs. Kiel playing Reanimator
I knew he was playing Reanimator from watching his first Round. This can be a bad matchup for Eva Green, so I prepared for the worst.
Game 1:
I mull to 6, then 5, then 4 trying to find first turn discard. With 4 cards, I am still unable to find discard so I keep.
He goes for early Careful Study, discarding Sphinx. Sphinx gets on the table and I don’t find one of my Snuff Outs. I play Hypnotic Specter, thinking that if I draw into a Tombstalker I would have an out. The Specter sits idle vs. Sphinx while he hits me for 6 a turn. Finally, I draw into Tombstalker but I don’t have a high enough Delve count. He ends the game at 30+ life with the lifelinking Sphinx.
SB:
+4 Leyline
-4 Sinkhole
I wanted to keep the Snuff Outs in the deck in case he was playing Blazing Archon.
Game 2:
I get turn zero Leyline and play Thoughtseize first turn. I see Chain-Entomb-Exhume-Daze and 3 lands. I choose Chain of Vapors and Hymn on turn 3, taking Entomb and Daze. While he tries to draw into a Leyline answer, I drop a Specter and force him to discard a couple more cards. He is unable to topdeck an answer – Specter and Tombstalker help me get the win.
Game 3:
I mull to 5 until I get turn zero Leyline. He was obviously ready for this strategy, and I could only hope to keep him topdecking with my discard effects. On turn 2 I Thoughtseize and see FoW-FoW-Entomb-Exhume-Polluted Delta. I take the Exhume and draw 2 more Leylines into my hand.
About 8 turns in, I make a huge misplay when I tap out to cast Tombstalker instead of waiting another turn, thinking he only had 2 cards in hand and “what were the chances he would have a Daze”. Of course, he has the Daze. Fortunately, as another player pointed out after the match, he doesn’t realize he can reanimate the Tombstalker sitting in my graveyard.
In the end I get 3 Leylines on the table (baiting an Echoing Truth) with 1 more Leyline in my hand. We start topdecking for about 3000 turns and he doesn’t find any of his Tutors. I start beating in eventually with a second Tombstalker and take the match.
Had he reanimated my Tombstalker, he probably could have won the match by forcing a Tombstalker vs. Tombstalker standoff.
This was a scary matchup for my deck. I’m glad I made it out alive
2-0-0
Round 3 – vs. Tom playing Stax
Game 1:
I lose the die roll but he doesn’t play T1 Chalice. I play T2 Inquisition and see Ancient Tomb-Ghostly Prison-Magus of the Tabernacle-Chalice. I take the Chalice. The turn after, I drop a Nantuko Shade on and Shade starts to attack through his Ghostly Prison. I find and play a Hypnotic Specter – definitely a good thing as he gets a Moat into play. Moat is soon joined by Crucible and Tabernacle.
He’s taking damage from his own Ancient Tomb paying for stuff. At one point I forget to pay the Tabernacle upkeep for Shade/Specter, and they bite the dust. I resolve a Tombstalker on the following turn and despite recurring Horizon Canopy w/ Crucible he is unable to find an answer in time.
SB:
+4 Leyline, +3 Grip
-4 Sinkhole, -2 Nighthawk, -1 Snuff Out
Boarding in Leyline was probably unnecessary, but I wanted to combat Crucible.
Game 2:
He gets the God draw and plays City of Traitors, Mox Diamond, Grindstone, Painter’s Servant naming black all on the first turn. He goes off next turn and my Snuff Out sits in hand not doing anything – I am no longer able to target the Servant as he’s now a black creature.
SB:
-4 Leyline
+1 Snuff Out, +2 Needle, +1 Nighthawk
After seeing him play the Painter/Grindstone Combo, I wanted to have a bit of extra insurance. The Leylines didn’t seem all that great if I was facing a T1/T2 kill.
Game 3:
I mull to 5 without first turn discard in my hand but I have a Krosan Grip. He gets the same great hand as Game 2 – City, Mox, Grindstone, Servant. I look at my hand and I do have an answer – turn 2 I Krosan Grip the Servant off a Bayou / Dark Ritual before he gets to activate next turn.
I’m thinking, OK he had another God hand, but I can hold him off for a little while…
Turn 3 he topdecks another Servant and goes off. Ouch.
Frustrating matchup, he goes for the transformational sideboard for Games 2 and 3 and I can’t stop the combo. We joke afterwards that maybe I shouldn’t be shuffling and cutting his deck, since I’m giving him great draws.
2-1-0
Round 4 – vs. Gavin playing Canadian Thresh
Game 1:
I win the die roll and start the game by playing T1 Thoughtseize. I see Clique-Ponder-Mongoose-Fire/Ice and three lands. I take the Mongoose. He Ponders, plays a fetch land, and passes turn. I follow up with Hymn but he has a Spell Snare ready. I wasteland one of his tropical islands and drop a Goyf. Goyf resolves and starts beating face.
He drops his own Goyf and the ground is stalled until I drop a Nighthawk. He has a Clique but Clique’s CIP effect helps me find a Hymn to remove more cards from his hand. He decides to trade his Clique for my Nighthawk when I attack into him. The Goyfs stare at each other until I resolve Tombstalker and the Demon flies in for the win.
Having Tombstalker in this matchup is awesome as his burn spells aren’t enough. Even if he had answers, he would have to 2-for-1 to get rid of the flying Demon.
SB:
Nothing. I pretend I’m siding a couple cards, but I don’t think I need to SB anything.
Game 2:
He’s quite mana screwed this time. I open with turn 1 Nighthawk. He gets lands out but I start to play Wasteland/Sinkhole on them.
He Spell Snares my Hymn and after baiting out some initial countermagic I get Shade and Specter down. Despite Ponder and double Brainstorm he has difficulty finding lands – my disruption leaves him with a basic Island and Wasteland staring down all my Swamps. I have Shade, Specter and Nighthawk all attacking until he finds a Goyf. He scoops when I Snuff Out his Goyf and fly in for the kill.
I’m pretty happy with this matchup. I think Eva Green does well in these types of situations.
3-1-0
Round 5 – vs. Dereck playing Merfolk
At this point there are several people with 3-1 records. We do the math and decide to play out our match, and only ID if another matchup finishes in our favor (it doesn’t).
He’s playing Merfolk with Green splash for Goyf.
Game 1:
I get a decent jump on him early in the game with discard effects. My first Duress reveals Goyf-Daze-Adept-Reejerey-Standstill-Wasteland and 2 fetchlands. I take the Standstill. He gets 2 Merrow Reejereys out and it’s racing time with my lone Tombstalker. I get Goyf down only to meet his Goyf – I’m starting to see the value of Merfolk splashing for the almighty Llurgoyf, he’s just an awesome wall!
We start fighting an attrition battle. He sacrifices a Mutavault to my Goyf so that his Goyf can get in for beats. I believe our Goyfs grow to be 6/7.
I get him down to 3 life but he topdecks a third Reejerey, taps my Goyf and gets the kill. I’m one turn too late.
SB:
+4 E-Plague, +2 Needle, +2 Jitte
-4 Sinkhole, -2 Duress, -1 Shade, -1 Specter
Game 2:
This battle was a lot more drawn out and playing around Daze probably cost me the game.
I get a decent hand and land first turn Needle naming Aether Vial. I’m thinking this shuts down a lot of his tempo, but interestingly he tells me after the game that he boarded out Vial. Not really sure why since he was still playing Standstill…
This game I also have some early hand disruption. I land Inquisition followed by Duress. He makes a mistake by letting Duress resolve, thinking that it couldn’t grab FoW. I take the Force.
Soon, he lands Mutavault/Standstill with no creatures on board. I topdeck Wasteland like a champ and kill his Changeling land. We start waiting it out until I decide “screw it, I’m breaking the Standstill since I have E-Plague and Tombstalker in my hand”. He was already -1 card advantage due to playing a Force, why not right?
My thought process is: I have E-Plague and Tombstalker in hand, and I want to resolve the E-Plague. If I draw into a second E-Plague the game is over. So my first move is to Ritual out a Tombstalker to “bait” the Force. He counters ‘Stalker and next turn I play E-Plague.
Here’s where it gets interesting. He gets a 1/1 Reejerey out, and I start topdecking nothing but Snuff Outs … 3 of them over 5 turns. I only have 4 mana open, and when he plays a Reejerey I lose 4 life to play Snuff Out not wanting to get hit with Daze. I lose another 4 life to kill his Goyf.
I play my own Goyf and make the mistake of playing a Jitte instead of Jitte-quipping Goyf in 1 go next turn – I only had 5 mana and wanted to see if I could use the mana on a topdecked ‘Stalker or Shade next turn. He plays his own Jitte to kill mine. He then plays Threads of Disloyalty to steal my Goyf.
When this happens, I have to Snuff Out my stolen Goyf and lose another 4 life – at this point I only had 4 lands due to one of my Bayous getting Wastelanded, and I didn’t want to risk getting Dazed.
He is able to play 2 more Lords and I’m unable to recover even with 1 Tombstalker on table.
3-2-0
I didn’t stick around to watch the Top 4 final but I knew that 2 of the players were Tom (Stax) and Dereck (Merfolk). I’m not sure what place I ended up in, but it wasn’t in the top 4 so I didn’t give it much thought.
After playing the deck, what did I learn?
4x Snuff Out *really* hurts vs. aggro - perhaps I will try a 2/2 Snuff Out split with either Smother or Ghastly Demise next time. It just hurts too much to lose 8-12 life in a match. Counterbalance isn’t as scary as aggro, and there aren’t many CB decks in my meta because aggro takes care of it
Maelstrom Pulse may be a worthy inclusion – yes it’s a slow sorcery, but it does great vs. multiple Reejerey, artifacts and random stuff.
Jitte isn’t necessary – there weren’t many matchups (both ones I played and ones I saw others play) where boarding in Jitte would have made a big difference. Against Merfolk and Goblins E-Plague is the first choice, and my creatures are simply bigger than theirs. It’s too slow to shut down decks like Painter-Grindstone and I would prefer putting in Choke, K. Grip #4 or Needle #3. If I'm facing Jitte I can either Needle or Grip it.
The next day, I do a 10K race and enjoy the rare sunny day in Vancouver. So overall, an awesome weekend Thanks for reading.
***UPDATE:***
T4 was
1) NO-Bant
2) Dragon Stompy
3) White Stax
4) UG Merfolk
reanimator only runs about 16 lands.. don't know that i would have taken out sinkhole, as you can really cripple him.
granted he only needs one land, but that can very likely be his only land.
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
Found at MTGO Academy!! Same Great Series, Same Great Content, Great New Home!! (yes that is me shamelessly trolling for more readers :))
Check me out on Twitter & Get a little MTGO Therapy
Thanks for the comments. I was really struggling to think what I could side out instead of the Sinkholes...any ideas?
I did Wasteland a couple of his U. Seas but it would have been nice to destroy his basics as well.
@JusSin- believe it or not, and i've played eva A LOT, i've actually never played it against landstill, so i can't say for sure. but in theory i would think we would kill them. they're slow, you thoughseize thier few major threats or removal, and lay down the beats. just a theory though.
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
Found at MTGO Academy!! Same Great Series, Same Great Content, Great New Home!! (yes that is me shamelessly trolling for more readers :))
Check me out on Twitter & Get a little MTGO Therapy
i also agree with mr.cakes.
and if i were playing the tutor board, i'd play 3 tutors, not 2. just my 2cents though.
edit..
just read that article.. there's time i'll never get back, what a waste. i hate it when people want to look cool by writting an article, only to write a bunch of commonly known facts, thanks a lot captain obvious. Oh, and lets top it off with an uninspired, unoriginal, and unproven, rock deck.
with those people in mind, he's just restateing a bunch of facts that we all aready know.
and it's pretty obvious to those who don't play it as well.
like, really... you DIDN'T know that tombstalker and snuff out hurt when playing bob? you DIDN'T know that blacks removal has drawbacks, and swords is king in this department? come on man
and i'm all for splashing white. if you'd follow this thread, i've been one of the splashes main supporters.