i've had 2 chains of mephistopheles since they first came out and never used them. now i just came across 2 more to make my playset, but i have no idea what to do with them.
are there any good decks that run them? are they better suited to vintage?
please feel free to share any and all deck lists containing 4x chains in the main deck. i would like to see what my options are.
thanks in advance,
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
To me, they aren't really suited for competitive magic. A card that requires you to sit there and think "what does this even do?" just doesnt seem like it has the power to be in a competitive deck.
It keeps a pretty high price tag, but i always thought that was just because its a. legends, and b. the WTF factor.
I mean, it does a nice job of making cards like brainstorm a little worse, but it still doesnt actually do anything...
Turns brainstorm into discard 3, draw 3, put 2 on top. I haven't seen a deck list that incorporates before at a competitive level. But I could be overlooking this, and there might be soem out there.
None the less its a really cool card and i wish i had one.
and of course a tier 1 deck would be awsome, but i doubt it exists as i've never really seen it played.
so casual decks will work too. just so long as they're not complete garbage.
i could see this helping a goyf/tombstalker deck somehow. or a madness deck.
i remember back in the day, i thought i was going to make a deck with chains, howling mine, and underworld dreams.
???
any ideas people, i'd like to put these chains to some good use!
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
ive seen a guy run a vintage deck on a tourney before that runs chains. he made the other dude draw, discard, draw and a bunch of crap load of shenanigans that was beyond my comprehension. honestly, have no clue what the deck exactly was (plus i dont play vintage, why should i care?)
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Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Well, the card may (*may*) be suitable just as a disruption element all on its own. After all, it hoses both Brainstorm and Ponder. And cycle lands. And Standstill. And to some extent Sensei's Divining Top. And a variety of other cards. If it has that going for it, you could expect a nice matchup advantage on a lot of decks. The classic thing to do is combine it with Anvil of Bogardan for a state of no gain in hand size ever. Of course if you have something like:
to actually give you an advantage, you can get around the issue. Of course, there are a lot of decks out there that already use these things, and so there would be a lot of opponents that get around your primary strategy. At one point I had them in my sb when Solidarity and Landstill were hard matchups for a deck of mine. But that was a long time ago.
Shelve them, my friend. The replacement effect is so difficult to understand that they are unlikely to make another card like it for a long time. They should retain its value.
I always thought this was supposed to be a strong sideboard card for black based decks in control heavy metas. As it beats up on Standstill and Brainstorm, and any other standard form of draw, and combined with additional forms of discard it makes for a pretty strong disruption suite. And it can be easy to resolve when run with other discard spells. Once in play it's pretty easy to keep control off of it's hand for most of the game.
If you need something to do with them... trade them to me!
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I edit after I post... just a heads up.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Can anyone explain to me how Chains+Anvil resolves because I have a friend who plays this deck and it gets annoying to ask ... "how do I do this" like 30 times.
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Thanks Mr.Stuff from High~Light Studios for the Sig
Can anyone explain to me how Chains+Anvil resolves because I have a friend who plays this deck and it gets annoying to ask ... "how do I do this" like 30 times.
Yeah, it's a bit complicated, but the rules invoked are not too hard to understand. Here's how it goes:
1. You enter the draw step. Chains checks to see if it is your first card drawn during your draw step, which it is, so you draw as normal.
2. Anvil goes on the stack, and I assume that it resolves. Chains of Meph replaces the text "draws a card" (text on the Anvil) with
Quote from Chains »
If a player would draw a card except the first one he or she draws in his or her draw step each turn, that player discards a card instead. If the player discards a card this way, he or she draws a card. If the player doesn't discard a card this way, he or she puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard
It sees that this is not going to be the first card drawn during your draw step so you have to discard a card before you draw. Then you draw a card. Then you discard another card.
If you have no cards in hand when the Anvil trigger resolves (because perhaps the first card you just drew was an instant and you played it in response to the Anvil trigger) then you must mill the card instead of drawing it. You would then have to discard a card via Anvil, but there is no possible way for you to be holding a card at this point, so you ignore this part.
Note that once you let the Anvil trigger resolve, you can not do anything except complete the instructions until they are finished. That is, once you discard the first time, you can't draw the second card and then play it before the second discard.
If there are two Anvils in play, repeat step 2 again (for a net loss of cards in hand each turn).
If there are two Chains of Mephistopheles in play, there is no change.
Another cool thing about Chains of Mephistopheles is that you can cast a cantrip on your opponent's draw step without having the need to discard anything.
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Top8: finishes with own creations:
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
Another cool thing about Chains of Mephistopheles is that you can cast a cantrip on your opponent's draw step without having the need to discard anything.
Not quite, it says; "...except the first one he or she draws in his or her draw step each turn..." which I believe specifies the player drawing the cards draw step. Not any draw step.
May be wrong though.
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I edit after I post... just a heads up.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Another cool thing about Chains of Mephistopheles is that you can cast a cantrip on your opponent's draw step without having the need to discard anything.
I used to run Jayemdae Tome to draw a card during the opp draw step, but they changed the oracle text.
Perhaps a Oracle Power Level change can be requested? Any leads to where?
People would just start milling after a while with Megrim + Chains. The Rack is a better choice. You also really need the anvil to create and enforce a lock, but when you put the lock on somebody, Megrim doesn't do anything.
i really think there is something just waiting to be broken here. just have to find it.
keep the ideas comming though, the more the merrier!
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I want to break this card...I love the art so much! Good interaction with anvil of bogardan though didn't realize that. Didn't realize it was 1B to cast that's a good thing. But it makes brainstorm a really bad card if in play I'm guessing landstill would scoop if it weren't for engineered explosives.
Here's a deck I worked on a while ago, never tested it that seriously however as I had nowhere near an opportunity to acquire 4x Chains of Mephistopheles at the time, hehe:
Chains + Anvil can be pretty nasty. You can abuse this combo with Dark Confidant as well as Words of (anything). I figured a mild Replenish focus could be rather nice as you'll be discarding enchantments to Chains or Anvil (or milling them) With Opalescence out, you really do kill them with Chains of Mephistopheles :xd:
And since Chains is so much more brutal in multiples, I was using Infernal Tutor.
Sanctuary in particular was pretty handy. Two chains, a Howling Mine, and an Island Sanctuary - you just sit safely inside the Sanctuary while they slowly lose their hand. Combining the Anvil of Bogardan instead of the Howling Mine seems savagely effective...
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The earth-creature shows intelligence, turning our box over to expose the soft, fleshy underbelly.
Azerbaijan is strong in the Google-Fu. He is my hero!
There's a new card coming out in the new set that seems to rely heavily on drawing additional cards:
1UG: 2/2, Whenever you draw a card, put a +1/+1 counter on this.
Chains might become better against that.
Without that, it seems decent, but not something I'd base a deck around. It stops Brainstorm and Ponder and severely weakens Top even without comboing with anything else.
With the printing of Bob and Ad Nauseum, though, Chains seems a little weak in Legacy. If it at least crippled Combo like it does in Vintage, it'd be much stronger.
are there any good decks that run them? are they better suited to vintage?
please feel free to share any and all deck lists containing 4x chains in the main deck. i would like to see what my options are.
thanks in advance,
It keeps a pretty high price tag, but i always thought that was just because its a. legends, and b. the WTF factor.
I mean, it does a nice job of making cards like brainstorm a little worse, but it still doesnt actually do anything...
Turns brainstorm into discard 3, draw 3, put 2 on top. I haven't seen a deck list that incorporates before at a competitive level. But I could be overlooking this, and there might be soem out there.
None the less its a really cool card and i wish i had one.
deck list?
and of course a tier 1 deck would be awsome, but i doubt it exists as i've never really seen it played.
so casual decks will work too. just so long as they're not complete garbage.
i could see this helping a goyf/tombstalker deck somehow. or a madness deck.
i remember back in the day, i thought i was going to make a deck with chains, howling mine, and underworld dreams.
???
any ideas people, i'd like to put these chains to some good use!
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Fact or Fiction
Midnight Ritual
Dark Confidant
Gifts Ungiven
Life from the Loam
Eternal Dragon
Genesis
Survival of the Fittest
to actually give you an advantage, you can get around the issue. Of course, there are a lot of decks out there that already use these things, and so there would be a lot of opponents that get around your primary strategy. At one point I had them in my sb when Solidarity and Landstill were hard matchups for a deck of mine. But that was a long time ago.
Shelve them, my friend. The replacement effect is so difficult to understand that they are unlikely to make another card like it for a long time. They should retain its value.
EDIT: Finn beat me to the punch.
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
If you need something to do with them... trade them to me!
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Currently Playing
WUBG Ravanger Affinity
WWWTheMightyQuinn
EDIT: suicide mill with things like Wheel and deal.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
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Trade thread (constantly updated)
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1. You enter the draw step. Chains checks to see if it is your first card drawn during your draw step, which it is, so you draw as normal.
2. Anvil goes on the stack, and I assume that it resolves. Chains of Meph replaces the text "draws a card" (text on the Anvil) with It sees that this is not going to be the first card drawn during your draw step so you have to discard a card before you draw. Then you draw a card. Then you discard another card.
If you have no cards in hand when the Anvil trigger resolves (because perhaps the first card you just drew was an instant and you played it in response to the Anvil trigger) then you must mill the card instead of drawing it. You would then have to discard a card via Anvil, but there is no possible way for you to be holding a card at this point, so you ignore this part.
Note that once you let the Anvil trigger resolve, you can not do anything except complete the instructions until they are finished. That is, once you discard the first time, you can't draw the second card and then play it before the second discard.
If there are two Anvils in play, repeat step 2 again (for a net loss of cards in hand each turn).
If there are two Chains of Mephistopheles in play, there is no change.
Currently Playing
WUBG Ravanger Affinity
WWWTheMightyQuinn
If there are two chains in play you have to pitch two cards before you can draw an extra card, but it will not do additional milling in this case.
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
Not quite, it says; "...except the first one he or she draws in his or her draw step each turn..." which I believe specifies the player drawing the cards draw step. Not any draw step.
May be wrong though.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I used to run Jayemdae Tome to draw a card during the opp draw step, but they changed the oracle text.
Perhaps a Oracle Power Level change can be requested? Any leads to where?
i really think there is something just waiting to be broken here. just have to find it.
keep the ideas comming though, the more the merrier!
Maybe skyscribing?
Currently Playing:
Retired
Yeah... it replaces itsself exactly once, oddly enough. I read a great article about the card recently.
4x Wasteland
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Scrubland
3x Polluted Delta
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Swamp
Acceleration (4)
4x Chrome Mox
Creatures (4)
4x Dark Confidant
Control & Tools (23)
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Gerard's Verdict
3x The Rack
3x Anvil of Bogardan
2x Replenish
4x Chains of Mephistopheles
2x Parallax Wave
2x Words of Worship
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Opalescence
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Aura of Silence
4x Circle of Protection: Red
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Defense Grid
And since Chains is so much more brutal in multiples, I was using Infernal Tutor.
Sanctuary in particular was pretty handy. Two chains, a Howling Mine, and an Island Sanctuary - you just sit safely inside the Sanctuary while they slowly lose their hand. Combining the Anvil of Bogardan instead of the Howling Mine seems savagely effective...
Azerbaijan is strong in the Google-Fu. He is my hero!
Too bad the deck will get wrecked by Spell Snare or Chalice of the Void @ 2 :xd: ---which is why it should run 4x Chalice of the Void itself, first one @ 1, 2nd one @ 0!
1UG: 2/2, Whenever you draw a card, put a +1/+1 counter on this.
Chains might become better against that.
Without that, it seems decent, but not something I'd base a deck around. It stops Brainstorm and Ponder and severely weakens Top even without comboing with anything else.
With the printing of Bob and Ad Nauseum, though, Chains seems a little weak in Legacy. If it at least crippled Combo like it does in Vintage, it'd be much stronger.