I'm taking a list similar to the discard one in the opening post to my local store this week. The plan is to try out a Toxic Deluge along with the Massacre in the sideboard to see if it ever comes up that I want to Wish for it as mass removal against a non-hatebear deck.
Sideboard is:
1 Karakas
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Doomsday
1 Massacre
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Time Spiral
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'm moving the Tropical Island that was in my sideboard into the main to make room for the Toxic Deluge, also giving Badlands a shot over the second Swamp I had in my list (I'm learning that I might be too conservative with fetching basics all the time). I suppose I could replace the second Tendrils of Agony with something, but I'm terrified of just losing to Surgical on Burning Wish and I don't know how other players can be so confident that they can protect themselves from that.
I had been thinking of replacing Emrakul and Shelldock with Laboratory Maniac just for fun since the decks Emrakul is good against aren't too popular here, but it just didn't feel right to me.
I had been trying to write a primer, but I got a job that takes up more of my time and I felt like everything I had written was instantly invalidated by Gitaxian Probe getting printed. I think a lot of people are willing to have discussions about this deck and can answer questions for new players, though. Overall, I think that new players could never feel adequately "primed" to play Doomsday because the deck doesn't produce enough "Easy Mode" wins to make you feel like you're playing anything better than a bad version of ANT unless the primer had so much stuff in it that a reader would instantly suffer from information overload. That does make me think that it would be interesting if someone wrote about playing this deck in some sort of periodical form, though.
I think a lot of people are willing to have discussions about this deck and can answer questions for new players, though. Overall, I think that new players could never feel adequately "primed" to play Doomsday because the deck doesn't produce enough "Easy Mode" wins to make you feel like you're playing anything better than a bad version of ANT unless the primer had so much stuff in it that a reader would instantly suffer from information overload. That does make me think that it would be interesting if someone wrote about playing this deck in some sort of periodical form, though.
That's pretty much where I'm sitting with this. I mean, I've picked up the deck and played a few hundred hands, and I don't feel anywhere near ready. I've gone through and read tournament reports and the DD piles doc and just info-overloaded. There's so much about this deck to learn and to read up on.
I do really feel like the request should be less for "a DDFT Primer" and more for a "less ****ty opening post", although if anyone with more experience is willing to put in for a primer, I certainly won't stop them
Maybe of we kept the primer really basic it would be useful. Decklist, basic gameplan, basic piles, and sideboarding. Nothing else. That would keep it to a single page while still being remotely useful. Maybe a short explination of why they should play this over TES or ANT.
Carsten Kotter wrote an "Intro to Doomsday" article for SCG a year or two ago. It's very basic, but it could be a reasonable starting point for the primer.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Maybe of we kept the primer really basic it would be useful. Decklist, basic gameplan, basic piles, and sideboarding. Nothing else. That would keep it to a single page while still being remotely useful. Maybe a short explination of why they should play this over TES or ANT.
This. And have a second post with spoilers for tackling specific gamestates.
I made this list of the easy go-to piles a while ago to help myself learn them. It might be nice for anyone else learning the deck also. You could use it for the primer if it ever ends up happening.
In hand: Dark Ritual, Doomsday, Lion's Eye Diamond
In Play: Sensei's Divining Top, (B)source(Land or Lotus Petal)
--> Play DR(1 storm), DD(2) --building this pile-->
Ideas Unboud
LED
Gitaxian Probe
LED
Burning wish
-->Play LED(3), crack LED for UUU, Draw with top, play Ideas Unbound(4), GP(5), SDT(6), LED(7), LED(8), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with SDT, Burning Wish(9), Tendrils of Agony
In hand: DR,DD,LED,GP(or another cantrip and (U) available)
In Play: (B)source
-->DR(1),DD(2) -
IU
LED
LED
GP
BW
-->LED(3), GP(4)response crack LED for UUU, IU(5), LED(6), LED(7), GP(8) crack LEDs for BBB RRR, BW(9), TOA
In hand: DR, DD, GP
In Play: (B)source, SDT
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
IU
LED
LED
BW
-->GP(3), LED(4), crack LED for UUU, draw with SDT, IU(5), LED(6), LED(7), SDT(8), crack LEDS for BBB RRR, draw wiith SDT, BW(9), TOA
In hand: GP, GP, DR, DD
In Play: (B)source, (R)source
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
IU
LED
LED
BW
-->GP(3), LED(4), GP(5)resp crack LED for UUU, IU(6), LED(7), LED(8), BW(9)resp crack LEDs for BBBUUU, TOA
[================================================]
--Single Hate ( Gaddock Teeg, Leyline of Sanctity ) Basic Piles--
[================================================]
--SDT Single Hate basic pile--
In hand: DR, DD, LED
In play, SDT, (B)source,(U)source,(1)source
--> DR(1), DD(2) -
IU
LED
Chain of Vapor
LED
BW
-->LED(3), crack LED for UUU, draw with SDT, IU(4), LED(5), SDT(6), draw with SDT resp CoV(7) on SDT, sac a land and CoV(8) on the hatecard, SDT(9), LED(10), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with SDT, BW(11), TOA
--SDT + Cantrip Single Hate basic pile--
In Hand: DR, DD, LED, GP
In Play: SDT, (B)
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
IU
LED
CoV
LED
BW
-->LED(3), GP(4)resp crack LED for UUU, IU(5), LED(6), LED(7), CoV(8) on hatecard, crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with top, BW(9), TOA
------------------------------------------------------------------
--Double Cantrip Single Hate basic pile--
In hand: DR, DD, LED, GP,GP
In Play: (B), (1)
--> DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
IU
LED
CoV
BW
-->GP(3), LED(4), LED(5), GP(6)resp crack LED for RRR UUU, IU(7), LED(8), CoV(9) on the hatecard, BW(10)resp crack LED for BBB, TOA
[======================================]
-----------Empty the Warrens Basic Piles-------------
[======================================]
--SDT DD Empty the Warrens basic pile--
In Hand: DR, DD, LED
In play: SDT, (B)
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
IU
LED
LED
BW
DD
-->
LED(3),crack for UUU, draw with SDT, IU(4), LED(4), LED(5), SDT(6), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with SDT, BW(7), Empty the warrens for 16, with 2 turns to attack. If you have mana to play the last doomsday you can rebuild the pile without BW for more turns to swing.
In hand: DR, DD, LED, GP, GP
In play: (B),
--> DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
BW
Duress, or CoV(make sure you have (U) available)
DR
DD
-->GP(3), LED(4), LED(5), GP(6)resp crack LEDs for RRR BBB, BW(7), EtW for 16 with 3+ turns to attack
In Hand: DR, DD, GP, GP
In Play: SDT, (B)
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
LED
BW
DR or Duress or CoV
DD
-->GP(3), GP(4), LED(5),LED(6), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with top, BW(7), EtW for 16 with 3+ turns to attack
In hand: (U)*, DR, DD
In Play: (B)
--> DR, DD -
Shelldock Isle
Emrakul
Duress or CoV or Wipe Away or (U)
DR or Duress or CoV or WA
DD
-->pass turn, draw SI, play SI and hide Emrakul, pass turn, draw duress, play duress, play (U), tap and activate SI to play Emrakul, take an extra turn, if you need to you can play doomsday for extra turns to swing
*note: if you dont have access (U) pre DD, you can stack (U) in place of duress in the pile
--Cantrip/ SDT basic Shelldock pile--
--Land Drop Available--
In hand: (U)*, DR, DD, GP(or any cantrip and (U), or SDT in play)
In play:(B), SDT( or a Cantrip in hand with a way to play it)
--> DR, DD -
SI
Emrakul
Duress or CoV or WA or (U)
DR
DD
--> Cantrip, or draw with SDT, play shelldock hiding Emrakul, pass turn, play (U), play duress, activate Shelldock to play Emrakul.
*note: if you dont have access (U) pre DD, you can stack (U) in place of duress in the pile.
[==========================================]
--Pass the Turn Piles (Double Doomsday/ Time Spiral)--
[==========================================]
--Double Doomsday pile--
(U)(U)(1) + LED available post Doomsday
-->DD -
IU
SDT
DD
LED
BW
-->pass the turn, LED(1),IU(2)resp crack LED for BBB, LED(3), SDT(4), DD(5)resp crack LED for UUU -
IU
LED
LED
BW
( )
-->draw with SDT, IU(6), LED(7), LED(7), SDT(8), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with top, BW(9), TOA
--Time Spiral pile--
In Hand: DR, DD, LED, (*)
In Play: Usea, (U)*with extra card in hand - or Petal/ Fetchland
--> DR, DD
IU
LED
LED
BW
BW
-->pass turn, LED(1), IU(2)resp crack LED for RRR, LED(3), LED(4), BW(5)resp crack LEDs for UUU UUU, TSP(6), draw and untap, LED(7),LED(8),LED(9), BW(10)resp crack LEDs for BBB BBB, TOA
Also here's the list i have been jamming, if anyone is interested.
Now whats this about 3 Burning Wish instead of 4? I have been playing this for a while now and have been jamming 4. Can someone explain why 4 is wrong?
Also can someone explain the second Tendrils? I know its for game against extraction on Burning Wish but how does the line work exactly?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
Four Burning Wish isn't wrong, but with the amount of cantrips the deck plays, it isn't wholly insane to only play three. It was very popular a while back to play three, since drawing two Burning Wishes can feel really bad. The main thing about playing four copies is that you have more business spells to draw into against discard decks and really fast decks.
I normally board in the second Tendrils when A) I suspect that my opponent could be bringing in Surgical Extraction; B) When my opponent is playing permanent hate that only really affects casting Tendrils of Agony (Gaddock Teeg, Leyline of Sanctity) because a maindeck Tendrils makes the "Tutor up a Chain of Vapor" pile cost a mana less; C) My opponent is playing a Burn deck and casting Tendrils of Agony from my hand for any amount invalidates a bunch of my opponent's cards/turns.
The default pile for winning with a Tendrils in your deck is the same as winning without a Tendrils in your deck, but not casting Burning Wish for Tendrils means that Doomsday only generates seven spells instead of eight and you need to plan accordingly. The pile is literally the same (Ideas Unbound, LED, Gitaxian Probe, LED, Burning Wish) except you switch Burning Wish with Tendrils as the last card in your pile.
Also, while I do board in Tendrils against Surgical, it's because I'm being cautious. In most cases you can prevent your Burning Wishes from ever hitting the graveyard at all since they exile themselves on resolution--they can only become targets for Surgical Extraction in the first place if you let them get discarded/countered. Also, unless your opponent knows that you don't play a maindeck Tendrils, I think that targeting Burning Wish with a Surgical Extraction is an extremely weak play (because a theoretical maindeck Tendrils means that your Extraction did almost nothing, and the nature of this deck means that having a Surgical Extraction in hand can be far better than trying to prevent a Doomsday player from having Burning Wish in their deck). Since the play looks strong despite actually being pretty weak (AKA people have no experience playing against Doomsday), I think one should sideboard accordingly, but better players than I am have felt comfortable not playing the second Tendrils.
It can be. Chain of Vapor main offers an out, Massacre in the board (off Burning Wish) helps, Abrupt Decay answers it, Karakas answers it. Really, if it's Thalia and no other pressure, it's only slightly problematic; you have time to find an answer. Ultimately, it depends on your build, but even in a stock list, Thalia alone shouldn't be game.
I'm thinking that Thalia is a problem for this deck. Is that true?
Thalia is an issue, but you're not just dead if your opponent has them in his or her deck. Poppeleseed already addressed the question, but I wanted to add onto it.
First off, Thalia is usually a turn two play. This deck doesn't have as much "Kill them turn one" potential as other Storm decks, but it is something you can do. If you play first, that's two turns you have to kill your opponent.
If you're playing white, you can also cast Silence on your opponent's turn to prevent them from casting Thalia. I've won quite a few games from just Silencing my opponent for one or two turns to prevent a hatebear or Hymn to Tourach coming into the equation.
If you're mainly playing discard, then Cabal Therapy answers Thalia. If I see white mana out of my opponent, I would be fine blind-naming Thalia off of a Therapy before my opponent can reach two mana.
And if Thalia resolves, you have plenty of potential maindeck answers to it. If you're playing White, then you could be playing Karakas to bounce it. Many people opt to play a maindeck Chain of Vapor so you have a chance of drawing into it as well. And all of the most recent lists play Burning Wish so if you have appropriate Wishable hate (Massacre is the popular one now), you can use that.
From the sideboard, you can bring in Abrupt Decay. I personally don't like doing that because Thalia Decks are Wasteland decks and more colors means more chances to get your lands destroyed, but I think the people who play white usually side out their white spells for the green spells when facing hatebear decks. I've also seen people play multiple mass removal spells in their sideboard so they can side one in and still have a Wishable one. I personally play Toxic Deluge and Massacre, so I side in Deluge because wishing for it and trying to cast it with Thalia in play can be a pain.
Also, as P-E said, Dread of Night is a good answer, but only if your meta is filled with D&T. I only like the card when it turns off more cards in your opponent's deck than Thalia and Mother, and Nemesis means everyone's playing Flickerwisps and Mindcensors now.
Well, after a brief stint with playing other decks to get the people in my area away from the notion that I always play Doomsday, I'm back at it. This is what I'm working with right now:
This deck is constructed in a way to give me the best chance of being able to quickly cast Doomsday for Laboratory Maniac wins. As an unintended side-effect, this version of the deck is also more beginner friendly since you can basically throw all of your cantrips away needlessly and still manage to win with a Maniac pile.
I'm not sure that "pushing it" is the right call at all because my hiatus stemmed from a bit of frustration via a bunch of losses I got from giving my opponent one turn post-Doomsday and losing to topdecks; I'm still trying to learn myself when it's right to just go for it instead of waiting for the resources to go off all in one turn.
If anyone has any questions about my list, feel free to ask me--I'm by no means an expert on Doomsday, I have worked hard on understanding the deck well enough to feel confident about the choices I have made concerning my own decklist.
I guess i'm a little out of touch with what has been going on with DDFT. I have been playing the same list with varying sideboard choices for a while now. What's the deal with Labman and Chromatic Sphere md?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
Progress with this deck is completely glacial because almost no one plays it regularly--the best players either don't get out much or they play with other decks frequently. In this way, I would say that Laboratory Maniac isn't particularly a regular inclusion right now, but that may be simply because people aren't testing it out.
On The Source, emidln posted a new list he had been wanting to try out that included a Chromatic Sphere in the main and a Laboratory Maniac in the board as an alternate win condition to beat permanent based hate cards. He also made a comment about possibly trying Maniac in the main backed up with all of the discard and probes to try to force a quick win with a Maniac when you see the coast is clear, and I immediately jumped on the idea. I'm playing three Petals and Cabal Ritual over Rain of Filth to give me the best chances of casting Doomsday on turn one or two for a quick pass-the-turn win.
Chromatic Sphere is likely garbage and I haven't ever used it in my deck for its intended purpose. The reason the card is in the deck is to make Maniac piles that can blank your opponent's removal for Maniac, and I have had that come up exactly once but I also didn't have the mana to make the Chromatic Sphere pile. At this point I'm likely just being hard-headed by keeping it.
I'm also not playing any anti-hate in the main because Maniac does a better job at beating the cards I need to solve. What I said about Maniac letting inexperienced players still have a shot of winning despite throwing all their cantrips away also applies to when you have all of your business cards discarded, because it makes for a low-resource pass-the-turn pile that only costs 1UU when you untap and it also has the upside of being not completely suicidal if your opponent has an Extraction effect.
My sideboard is very much built for the specific metagame in my area. The Hurkyl's Recall would normally be a third Abrupt Decay, and Empty the Warrens should be a third Xantid Swarm, but Counterbalance and Show and Tell aren't super-popular here; instead, there are a bunch of Prison decks and Chalices all over the place (including Chalice decks that play Leyline of Sanctity) so I figure my best chances of beating that much oppressive hate are to just cast Doomsday or Burning Wish immediately and make a few Goblins or build a Maniac pile with lands and a Hurkyl's Recall in it because those decks normally put so much focus on getting their hate into play that they have no pressure if you can get something going before they have a chance to get a lot done.
Hope I'm not beating on any horses by appearing in this thread, considering it's last post was in June and I'm fairly new to these forums.
I've been playing DDFT for a few years, albeit in no tournaments (no budget to finish the land base), and one recent addition to the deck has served me well. Act on Impulse. I currently run it as a one of in the sideboard, but I'm debating running one in the main as well due to it's interaction with LED. It has already assisted me in constructing a pass the turn pile that should have been impossible otherwise, and I've noticed many occasions where a mainboard could have assisted in piles.
I am nowhere as experienced in the deck as most of the posters in this thread, so I wanted to ask for assistance and thoughts. For one, what do you think of Act on Impulse in DDFT? Also, what's the primary purpose of rain of filth? I've used it occasionally as a fifth ritual, but it seems otherwise dangerous.
Act of Impulse is just barely not good enough, in my opinion. If it cost less or drew more cards, it would instantly be in my deck. As it stands, I think that none of the benefits you gain from playing this card are relevant enough most of the time to include it in your 75.
What sorts of piles are you saying you made with Act on Impulse? It's possible that I'm really just missing something, but it's also possible that there are other options in the situations where you are using Act Piles.
Rain of Filth is basically Ritual number five, as you said. I find that the main issue with this deck winning quickly is that it is hard to generate three black mana quickly. Rain of Filth being a one mana ritual is a big help. The drawback isn't a super big deal in my opinion because there was no way you were recovering from disruption anyway since you're using Rain of Filth to cast a spell that commits you to one plan and kills you if you can't follow through. Rain of Filth is also very good against the disruption that tempo strategies employ--being a ritual means that you don't need to fetch your black lands now to cast Doomsday later (meaning you can play around Wasteland), and being able to generate tons of extra mana also means that you can beat soft counters much easier in the mid to late game. That being said, I'm playing Cabal Ritual. The reason why is because I'm playing Laboratory Maniac and I need the ability to keep my lands in play for the games where I just cast Doomsday ASAP and pass the turn on my opponent. Cabal Ritual brings its own problems two--most specifically, there are some times where all I'll have is black mana because I had to tap my blue land to cast it.
I was facing a Miracles deck that, after my duress, could pull off the lock in two turns. I had to Doomsday this turn and win the following turn. I used Rain to cast Doomsday with LED, Lotus Petal, and Burning Wish in hand. Pile was Gitaxian Probe, petal, LED, LED, Burning Wish. Following turn, probe, petal, LED, petal, crack petals for wish cracking LED for red, Act on Impulse, LED, LED, cracking both to Wish, Tendrils for 20.
Later on, I used it as a draw three with 3 LEDs on board and cracked them to cast Doomsday and follow up by comboing out with the other two cantrips it exiled.
I couldn't think of any other way for those to have worked. I tried working with Cruel Bargain piles, but came up dry. The ability to cast the LEDs and crack them to cast whatever spell is effectively in hand is very beneficial. I'd recommend at least testing it out, although, I'm unsure if the Lab Man build will find it as useful.
In your first example, I see why you're asking about Rain of Filth now...did you have to sacrifice all of your land to Rain of Filth? If you could have cast Doomsday without casting Rain of Filth or you would have had two lands remaining when you untapped, it looks to me like you could have won with a double Doomsday pile. In any case, it seems to me that it was specifically Rain of Filth that tripped you up, and I don't think that the situation comes up all that often, where you have Rain of Filth in hand and you need to win immediately via a pass-the-turn pile because you don't have a cantrip; even if it does, you can solve that by playing a Cabal Ritual instead.
In your second example, unless I'm not understanding the situation correctly, any big draw spell does the same thing as Act on Impulse because you had activated the LEDs before you cast your spell to find Doomsday.
Basically, I'm not playing Act on Impulse because I think that its special applications are very limited. It certainly does some specific things that no other draw spell does, but I don't think those situations come up enough for me to be interested in playing the card over other options. I am unwilling to cut any card in the main for Act on Impulse because all of the other cards in the deck are better at setting up for your combo turn. The space it competes with is Ideas Unbound, but Ideas Unbound costing one less mana will be more important in most situations. Sideboard space is far more limited, and the only space I could see Act on Impulse occupying is that of Cruel Bargain, but Cruel Bargain is an overall better sideboard card. I routinely side in Cruel Bargain against discard and combo because drawing extra cards is really good, but I can't do that with Act on Impulse since you don't get to keep the cards after your turn ends. Cruel Bargain drawing four cards lets you play around Pyroblast, but Act on Impulse piles don't give you access to your fifth card without casting a blue spell. In that same vein, drawing four is better for playing around extraction effects, etc. I admit that I could be missing something, but as it stands, the card needs a little more power for it to be something I would want to play.
I think the second example he's saying he cast Act on Impulse, then cast the LED's then cracked them. Like, the advantage of Act on Impulse there was that he could wait to see what he got to see how to play the LED's. Seems a minimal advantage to me.
I don't the it's maindeckable but maybe worth a sideboard slot. I don't think it's worth having the card main when situations it's better than anything else come up so infrequently.
I have a general feel for how the deck word but I am not super happy with my list. The sideboard is also just my board from ANT with Isle and Emrakul shoved in there.
So if anyone has any play tips, deck building advice or generally useful tidbits about Doomsday I really need them.
This list is rough. There are some lists on the first page that would be a better starting point from which to learn how to play this deck. Doomsday is basically a giant toolbox so the list is very customizable, but I think that you need more experience with all of the parts of the deck before you start trying to tinker under the hood for yourself. I’ll point out some of the issues I have with the deck you posted to give you an idea of why some of the decks you see are built the way they are. If you have any questions about the card choices in the other lists or if I’m talking about something you haven’t encountered in your learning yet, feel free to ask.
The first thing that sticks out to me is that you don’t want to be playing Meditate, and you *do* want to be playing Burning Wish. Ever since Gitaxian Probe was printed, with Burning Wish in your deck your Ideas Unbound Piles will generate more storm than your Meditate Piles will with the same mana requirements. Also, Meditate is far more unsafe to cast than it used to be, because it is nigh-suicidal to just give a Delver deck an extra turn.
I wouldn’t play more Swamps than Islands because I think blue mana is more important in this deck--I don’t think that there are too many situations where I would be happy to have two basic Swamps in play.
The next thing is that two Serenity and one copy of Silence does not justify playing white. You’re already playing Green for Xantid Swarm, so you should probably be playing copies of Abrupt Decay instead of Serenity. Playing Silence is fine, but not as a sideboard card and not as a one-of.
It looks like you took a sideboard from a Burning Wish Storm deck, but decided not to include Burning Wish. The sideboard needs a bit of changing up, but I reiterate that Burning Wish is great in this deck. But now, on to the sideboard you have presented: Ill-Gotten Gains is not a good card here. In the past, the deck played Ill-Gotten Gains for IGG Loops with Infernal Tutor and for the fastest possible pass-the-turn piles with Doomsday--however, Infernal Tutor isn’t a good card in Doomsday because you have to jump through a lot of hoops to make Infernal Tutor enable a Doomsday, and ever since Gitaxian Probe came out, we haven’t been playing a ton of fast mana to enable IGG Loops because something had to get cut for Probe, and Cabal Ritual doesn’t play particularly well with Ideas Unbound. Also, the super fast pass-the-turn IGG piles aren’t very useful because you should already crush any deck that you’d feel safe casting a turn 1-2 Doomsday against.
Virtue’s Ruin seems inferior to Toxic Deluge to me. Massacre is better than both because it doesn’t cost 4 mana with a Thalia out, which is the main creature I think we need to be concerned about, and there aren’t enough Gaddock Teegs these days for Massacre to have a lot of downside (and Gaddock Teeg is not at his best against this deck in the first place--our win condition costs three mana and incidentally can find an answer to him before casting Tendrils). Also, if you start playing Burning Wish, you don’t really need access to Slaughter Pact nor Deathmark because wishing for a Massacre is pretty superb at solving your problems.
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rain of Filth
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Doomsday
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Massacre
1 Karakas
1 Infernal Contract
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Doomsday
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
Ritual effects
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
1 Rain of Filth
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Business 8
3 Doomsday
4 Burning Wish
1 Ideas Unbound
Protection 7
4 Silence
3 Orim's Chant
Utility
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Doomsday
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Massacre
1 Infernal Contract
1 Time Spiral
1 Duress or Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons' Torn
1 Karakas
1 Flex Slot
Recent Finishes:
2 Swamp
1 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
3 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Doomsday
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Ponder
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Doomsday
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Massacre
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Spiral
1 Tropical Island
Previous Level Doomsday: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=127049
Please contact me if you would like to contribute to/write a primer for this deck.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247&highlight=
Sideboard is:
1 Karakas
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Doomsday
1 Massacre
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Time Spiral
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'm moving the Tropical Island that was in my sideboard into the main to make room for the Toxic Deluge, also giving Badlands a shot over the second Swamp I had in my list (I'm learning that I might be too conservative with fetching basics all the time). I suppose I could replace the second Tendrils of Agony with something, but I'm terrified of just losing to Surgical on Burning Wish and I don't know how other players can be so confident that they can protect themselves from that.
I had been thinking of replacing Emrakul and Shelldock with Laboratory Maniac just for fun since the decks Emrakul is good against aren't too popular here, but it just didn't feel right to me.
That's pretty much where I'm sitting with this. I mean, I've picked up the deck and played a few hundred hands, and I don't feel anywhere near ready. I've gone through and read tournament reports and the DD piles doc and just info-overloaded. There's so much about this deck to learn and to read up on.
I do really feel like the request should be less for "a DDFT Primer" and more for a "less ****ty opening post", although if anyone with more experience is willing to put in for a primer, I certainly won't stop them
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
This. And have a second post with spoilers for tackling specific gamestates.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
[=================================]
-----------------Basic Piles-----------------------
[=================================]
--Sensei's Divining Top basic pile--
In hand: Dark Ritual, Doomsday, Lion's Eye Diamond
In Play: Sensei's Divining Top, (B)source(Land or Lotus Petal)
--> Play DR(1 storm), DD(2) --building this pile-->
Ideas Unboud
LED
Gitaxian Probe
LED
Burning wish
-->Play LED(3), crack LED for UUU, Draw with top, play Ideas Unbound(4), GP(5), SDT(6), LED(7), LED(8), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with SDT, Burning Wish(9), Tendrils of Agony
------------------------------------------------------------------
--Cantrip basic pile--
In hand: DR,DD,LED,GP(or another cantrip and (U) available)
In Play: (B)source
-->DR(1),DD(2) -
IU
LED
LED
GP
BW
-->LED(3), GP(4)response crack LED for UUU, IU(5), LED(6), LED(7), GP(8) crack LEDs for BBB RRR, BW(9), TOA
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--SDT + Cantrip basic pile--
In hand: DR, DD, GP
In Play: (B)source, SDT
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
IU
LED
LED
BW
-->GP(3), LED(4), crack LED for UUU, draw with SDT, IU(5), LED(6), LED(7), SDT(8), crack LEDS for BBB RRR, draw wiith SDT, BW(9), TOA
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--Double Cantrip basic pile--
In hand: GP, GP, DR, DD
In Play: (B)source, (R)source
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
IU
LED
LED
BW
-->GP(3), LED(4), GP(5)resp crack LED for UUU, IU(6), LED(7), LED(8), BW(9)resp crack LEDs for BBBUUU, TOA
[================================================]
--Single Hate ( Gaddock Teeg, Leyline of Sanctity ) Basic Piles--
[================================================]
--SDT Single Hate basic pile--
In hand: DR, DD, LED
In play, SDT, (B)source,(U)source,(1)source
--> DR(1), DD(2) -
IU
LED
Chain of Vapor
LED
BW
-->LED(3), crack LED for UUU, draw with SDT, IU(4), LED(5), SDT(6), draw with SDT resp CoV(7) on SDT, sac a land and CoV(8) on the hatecard, SDT(9), LED(10), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with SDT, BW(11), TOA
------------------------------------------------------------------
--SDT + Cantrip Single Hate basic pile--
In Hand: DR, DD, LED, GP
In Play: SDT, (B)
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
IU
LED
CoV
LED
BW
-->LED(3), GP(4)resp crack LED for UUU, IU(5), LED(6), LED(7), CoV(8) on hatecard, crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with top, BW(9), TOA
------------------------------------------------------------------
--Double Cantrip Single Hate basic pile--
In hand: DR, DD, LED, GP,GP
In Play: (B), (1)
--> DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
IU
LED
CoV
BW
-->GP(3), LED(4), LED(5), GP(6)resp crack LED for RRR UUU, IU(7), LED(8), CoV(9) on the hatecard, BW(10)resp crack LED for BBB, TOA
[======================================]
-----------Empty the Warrens Basic Piles-------------
[======================================]
--SDT DD Empty the Warrens basic pile--
In Hand: DR, DD, LED
In play: SDT, (B)
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
IU
LED
LED
BW
DD
-->
LED(3),crack for UUU, draw with SDT, IU(4), LED(4), LED(5), SDT(6), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with SDT, BW(7), Empty the warrens for 16, with 2 turns to attack. If you have mana to play the last doomsday you can rebuild the pile without BW for more turns to swing.
------------------------------------------------------------------
--Double Cantrip DD EtW basic pile--
In hand: DR, DD, LED, GP, GP
In play: (B),
--> DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
BW
Duress, or CoV(make sure you have (U) available)
DR
DD
-->GP(3), LED(4), LED(5), GP(6)resp crack LEDs for RRR BBB, BW(7), EtW for 16 with 3+ turns to attack
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--Double Cantrip STD EtW basic pile--
In Hand: DR, DD, GP, GP
In Play: SDT, (B)
-->DR(1), DD(2) -
LED
LED
BW
DR or Duress or CoV
DD
-->GP(3), GP(4), LED(5),LED(6), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with top, BW(7), EtW for 16 with 3+ turns to attack
[====================================]
-------Shelldock Isle + Emrakul Basic Piles--------
[====================================]
--The "fast" Shelldock pile--
In hand: (U)*, DR, DD
In Play: (B)
--> DR, DD -
Shelldock Isle
Emrakul
Duress or CoV or Wipe Away or (U)
DR or Duress or CoV or WA
DD
-->pass turn, draw SI, play SI and hide Emrakul, pass turn, draw duress, play duress, play (U), tap and activate SI to play Emrakul, take an extra turn, if you need to you can play doomsday for extra turns to swing
*note: if you dont have access (U) pre DD, you can stack (U) in place of duress in the pile
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--Cantrip/ SDT basic Shelldock pile--
--Land Drop Available--
In hand: (U)*, DR, DD, GP(or any cantrip and (U), or SDT in play)
In play:(B), SDT( or a Cantrip in hand with a way to play it)
--> DR, DD -
SI
Emrakul
Duress or CoV or WA or (U)
DR
DD
--> Cantrip, or draw with SDT, play shelldock hiding Emrakul, pass turn, play (U), play duress, activate Shelldock to play Emrakul.
*note: if you dont have access (U) pre DD, you can stack (U) in place of duress in the pile.
[==========================================]
--Pass the Turn Piles (Double Doomsday/ Time Spiral)--
[==========================================]
--Double Doomsday pile--
(U)(U)(1) + LED available post Doomsday
-->DD -
IU
SDT
DD
LED
BW
-->pass the turn, LED(1),IU(2)resp crack LED for BBB, LED(3), SDT(4), DD(5)resp crack LED for UUU -
IU
LED
LED
BW
( )
-->draw with SDT, IU(6), LED(7), LED(7), SDT(8), crack LEDs for BBB RRR, draw with top, BW(9), TOA
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--Time Spiral pile--
In Hand: DR, DD, LED, (*)
In Play: Usea, (U)*with extra card in hand - or Petal/ Fetchland
--> DR, DD
IU
LED
LED
BW
BW
-->pass turn, LED(1), IU(2)resp crack LED for RRR, LED(3), LED(4), BW(5)resp crack LEDs for UUU UUU, TSP(6), draw and untap, LED(7),LED(8),LED(9), BW(10)resp crack LEDs for BBB BBB, TOA
Also here's the list i have been jamming, if anyone is interested.
3 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Burning Wish
3 Doomsday
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Meltdown
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Time Spiral
1 Doomsday
2 Swamp
1 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
3 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Doomsday
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Ponder
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Doomsday
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Massacre
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Spiral
1 Tropical Island
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Now whats this about 3 Burning Wish instead of 4? I have been playing this for a while now and have been jamming 4. Can someone explain why 4 is wrong?
Also can someone explain the second Tendrils? I know its for game against extraction on Burning Wish but how does the line work exactly?
I normally board in the second Tendrils when A) I suspect that my opponent could be bringing in Surgical Extraction; B) When my opponent is playing permanent hate that only really affects casting Tendrils of Agony (Gaddock Teeg, Leyline of Sanctity) because a maindeck Tendrils makes the "Tutor up a Chain of Vapor" pile cost a mana less; C) My opponent is playing a Burn deck and casting Tendrils of Agony from my hand for any amount invalidates a bunch of my opponent's cards/turns.
The default pile for winning with a Tendrils in your deck is the same as winning without a Tendrils in your deck, but not casting Burning Wish for Tendrils means that Doomsday only generates seven spells instead of eight and you need to plan accordingly. The pile is literally the same (Ideas Unbound, LED, Gitaxian Probe, LED, Burning Wish) except you switch Burning Wish with Tendrils as the last card in your pile.
Also, while I do board in Tendrils against Surgical, it's because I'm being cautious. In most cases you can prevent your Burning Wishes from ever hitting the graveyard at all since they exile themselves on resolution--they can only become targets for Surgical Extraction in the first place if you let them get discarded/countered. Also, unless your opponent knows that you don't play a maindeck Tendrils, I think that targeting Burning Wish with a Surgical Extraction is an extremely weak play (because a theoretical maindeck Tendrils means that your Extraction did almost nothing, and the nature of this deck means that having a Surgical Extraction in hand can be far better than trying to prevent a Doomsday player from having Burning Wish in their deck). Since the play looks strong despite actually being pretty weak (AKA people have no experience playing against Doomsday), I think one should sideboard accordingly, but better players than I am have felt comfortable not playing the second Tendrils.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Thalia is an issue, but you're not just dead if your opponent has them in his or her deck. Poppeleseed already addressed the question, but I wanted to add onto it.
First off, Thalia is usually a turn two play. This deck doesn't have as much "Kill them turn one" potential as other Storm decks, but it is something you can do. If you play first, that's two turns you have to kill your opponent.
If you're playing white, you can also cast Silence on your opponent's turn to prevent them from casting Thalia. I've won quite a few games from just Silencing my opponent for one or two turns to prevent a hatebear or Hymn to Tourach coming into the equation.
If you're mainly playing discard, then Cabal Therapy answers Thalia. If I see white mana out of my opponent, I would be fine blind-naming Thalia off of a Therapy before my opponent can reach two mana.
And if Thalia resolves, you have plenty of potential maindeck answers to it. If you're playing White, then you could be playing Karakas to bounce it. Many people opt to play a maindeck Chain of Vapor so you have a chance of drawing into it as well. And all of the most recent lists play Burning Wish so if you have appropriate Wishable hate (Massacre is the popular one now), you can use that.
From the sideboard, you can bring in Abrupt Decay. I personally don't like doing that because Thalia Decks are Wasteland decks and more colors means more chances to get your lands destroyed, but I think the people who play white usually side out their white spells for the green spells when facing hatebear decks. I've also seen people play multiple mass removal spells in their sideboard so they can side one in and still have a Wishable one. I personally play Toxic Deluge and Massacre, so I side in Deluge because wishing for it and trying to cast it with Thalia in play can be a pain.
Also, as P-E said, Dread of Night is a good answer, but only if your meta is filled with D&T. I only like the card when it turns off more cards in your opponent's deck than Thalia and Mother, and Nemesis means everyone's playing Flickerwisps and Mindcensors now.
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
2 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
1 Chromatic Sphere
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Burning Wish
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Doomsday
1 Karakas
1 Tropical Island
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Doomsday
2 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
This deck is constructed in a way to give me the best chance of being able to quickly cast Doomsday for Laboratory Maniac wins. As an unintended side-effect, this version of the deck is also more beginner friendly since you can basically throw all of your cantrips away needlessly and still manage to win with a Maniac pile.
I'm not sure that "pushing it" is the right call at all because my hiatus stemmed from a bit of frustration via a bunch of losses I got from giving my opponent one turn post-Doomsday and losing to topdecks; I'm still trying to learn myself when it's right to just go for it instead of waiting for the resources to go off all in one turn.
If anyone has any questions about my list, feel free to ask me--I'm by no means an expert on Doomsday, I have worked hard on understanding the deck well enough to feel confident about the choices I have made concerning my own decklist.
On The Source, emidln posted a new list he had been wanting to try out that included a Chromatic Sphere in the main and a Laboratory Maniac in the board as an alternate win condition to beat permanent based hate cards. He also made a comment about possibly trying Maniac in the main backed up with all of the discard and probes to try to force a quick win with a Maniac when you see the coast is clear, and I immediately jumped on the idea. I'm playing three Petals and Cabal Ritual over Rain of Filth to give me the best chances of casting Doomsday on turn one or two for a quick pass-the-turn win.
Chromatic Sphere is likely garbage and I haven't ever used it in my deck for its intended purpose. The reason the card is in the deck is to make Maniac piles that can blank your opponent's removal for Maniac, and I have had that come up exactly once but I also didn't have the mana to make the Chromatic Sphere pile. At this point I'm likely just being hard-headed by keeping it.
I'm also not playing any anti-hate in the main because Maniac does a better job at beating the cards I need to solve. What I said about Maniac letting inexperienced players still have a shot of winning despite throwing all their cantrips away also applies to when you have all of your business cards discarded, because it makes for a low-resource pass-the-turn pile that only costs 1UU when you untap and it also has the upside of being not completely suicidal if your opponent has an Extraction effect.
My sideboard is very much built for the specific metagame in my area. The Hurkyl's Recall would normally be a third Abrupt Decay, and Empty the Warrens should be a third Xantid Swarm, but Counterbalance and Show and Tell aren't super-popular here; instead, there are a bunch of Prison decks and Chalices all over the place (including Chalice decks that play Leyline of Sanctity) so I figure my best chances of beating that much oppressive hate are to just cast Doomsday or Burning Wish immediately and make a few Goblins or build a Maniac pile with lands and a Hurkyl's Recall in it because those decks normally put so much focus on getting their hate into play that they have no pressure if you can get something going before they have a chance to get a lot done.
I've been playing DDFT for a few years, albeit in no tournaments (no budget to finish the land base), and one recent addition to the deck has served me well. Act on Impulse. I currently run it as a one of in the sideboard, but I'm debating running one in the main as well due to it's interaction with LED. It has already assisted me in constructing a pass the turn pile that should have been impossible otherwise, and I've noticed many occasions where a mainboard could have assisted in piles.
I am nowhere as experienced in the deck as most of the posters in this thread, so I wanted to ask for assistance and thoughts. For one, what do you think of Act on Impulse in DDFT? Also, what's the primary purpose of rain of filth? I've used it occasionally as a fifth ritual, but it seems otherwise dangerous.
What sorts of piles are you saying you made with Act on Impulse? It's possible that I'm really just missing something, but it's also possible that there are other options in the situations where you are using Act Piles.
Rain of Filth is basically Ritual number five, as you said. I find that the main issue with this deck winning quickly is that it is hard to generate three black mana quickly. Rain of Filth being a one mana ritual is a big help. The drawback isn't a super big deal in my opinion because there was no way you were recovering from disruption anyway since you're using Rain of Filth to cast a spell that commits you to one plan and kills you if you can't follow through. Rain of Filth is also very good against the disruption that tempo strategies employ--being a ritual means that you don't need to fetch your black lands now to cast Doomsday later (meaning you can play around Wasteland), and being able to generate tons of extra mana also means that you can beat soft counters much easier in the mid to late game. That being said, I'm playing Cabal Ritual. The reason why is because I'm playing Laboratory Maniac and I need the ability to keep my lands in play for the games where I just cast Doomsday ASAP and pass the turn on my opponent. Cabal Ritual brings its own problems two--most specifically, there are some times where all I'll have is black mana because I had to tap my blue land to cast it.
Later on, I used it as a draw three with 3 LEDs on board and cracked them to cast Doomsday and follow up by comboing out with the other two cantrips it exiled.
I couldn't think of any other way for those to have worked. I tried working with Cruel Bargain piles, but came up dry. The ability to cast the LEDs and crack them to cast whatever spell is effectively in hand is very beneficial. I'd recommend at least testing it out, although, I'm unsure if the Lab Man build will find it as useful.
In your second example, unless I'm not understanding the situation correctly, any big draw spell does the same thing as Act on Impulse because you had activated the LEDs before you cast your spell to find Doomsday.
Basically, I'm not playing Act on Impulse because I think that its special applications are very limited. It certainly does some specific things that no other draw spell does, but I don't think those situations come up enough for me to be interested in playing the card over other options. I am unwilling to cut any card in the main for Act on Impulse because all of the other cards in the deck are better at setting up for your combo turn. The space it competes with is Ideas Unbound, but Ideas Unbound costing one less mana will be more important in most situations. Sideboard space is far more limited, and the only space I could see Act on Impulse occupying is that of Cruel Bargain, but Cruel Bargain is an overall better sideboard card. I routinely side in Cruel Bargain against discard and combo because drawing extra cards is really good, but I can't do that with Act on Impulse since you don't get to keep the cards after your turn ends. Cruel Bargain drawing four cards lets you play around Pyroblast, but Act on Impulse piles don't give you access to your fifth card without casting a blue spell. In that same vein, drawing four is better for playing around extraction effects, etc. I admit that I could be missing something, but as it stands, the card needs a little more power for it to be something I would want to play.
I don't the it's maindeckable but maybe worth a sideboard slot. I don't think it's worth having the card main when situations it's better than anything else come up so infrequently.
This list is rough. There are some lists on the first page that would be a better starting point from which to learn how to play this deck. Doomsday is basically a giant toolbox so the list is very customizable, but I think that you need more experience with all of the parts of the deck before you start trying to tinker under the hood for yourself. I’ll point out some of the issues I have with the deck you posted to give you an idea of why some of the decks you see are built the way they are. If you have any questions about the card choices in the other lists or if I’m talking about something you haven’t encountered in your learning yet, feel free to ask.
The first thing that sticks out to me is that you don’t want to be playing Meditate, and you *do* want to be playing Burning Wish. Ever since Gitaxian Probe was printed, with Burning Wish in your deck your Ideas Unbound Piles will generate more storm than your Meditate Piles will with the same mana requirements. Also, Meditate is far more unsafe to cast than it used to be, because it is nigh-suicidal to just give a Delver deck an extra turn.
I wouldn’t play more Swamps than Islands because I think blue mana is more important in this deck--I don’t think that there are too many situations where I would be happy to have two basic Swamps in play.
The next thing is that two Serenity and one copy of Silence does not justify playing white. You’re already playing Green for Xantid Swarm, so you should probably be playing copies of Abrupt Decay instead of Serenity. Playing Silence is fine, but not as a sideboard card and not as a one-of.
It looks like you took a sideboard from a Burning Wish Storm deck, but decided not to include Burning Wish. The sideboard needs a bit of changing up, but I reiterate that Burning Wish is great in this deck. But now, on to the sideboard you have presented: Ill-Gotten Gains is not a good card here. In the past, the deck played Ill-Gotten Gains for IGG Loops with Infernal Tutor and for the fastest possible pass-the-turn piles with Doomsday--however, Infernal Tutor isn’t a good card in Doomsday because you have to jump through a lot of hoops to make Infernal Tutor enable a Doomsday, and ever since Gitaxian Probe came out, we haven’t been playing a ton of fast mana to enable IGG Loops because something had to get cut for Probe, and Cabal Ritual doesn’t play particularly well with Ideas Unbound. Also, the super fast pass-the-turn IGG piles aren’t very useful because you should already crush any deck that you’d feel safe casting a turn 1-2 Doomsday against.
Virtue’s Ruin seems inferior to Toxic Deluge to me. Massacre is better than both because it doesn’t cost 4 mana with a Thalia out, which is the main creature I think we need to be concerned about, and there aren’t enough Gaddock Teegs these days for Massacre to have a lot of downside (and Gaddock Teeg is not at his best against this deck in the first place--our win condition costs three mana and incidentally can find an answer to him before casting Tendrils). Also, if you start playing Burning Wish, you don’t really need access to Slaughter Pact nor Deathmark because wishing for a Massacre is pretty superb at solving your problems.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU