This is one of those facepalm design. You add red to an existing blue card and the result is... a worst card?
Yes, worse than an unprintably strong card. Even this inferior version is still strong enough that it's going to be all over Standard and I wouldn't be too surprised if it saw Modern play.
More importantly, in Limited it either gives you three cards or two good cards at Instant speed. Do you really want them printing better cards than that? Because I certainly don't!
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
From my experiences playing against and with FoF, it wasn't uncommon to simply split the castable cards in two piles, then smatter the lands depending on what seemed 'fair'. That's probably 2 vs 3 cards most of the time, and at 4 cc instant speed that's not a bad bargain. If the card simply said, 2UR Instant: Draw three, that would be pretty good. It's a different game from FoF in that when your opponent split, he only had the information readily available to him (board state, cards in hand, etc), whereas now he has the additional information of how you decided to split the cards. If you were digging for a removal spell, you might pull a 4-1 split, and depending on how badly he thought you needed the removal, he might just give you the four cards. I can see this card getting a lot of mileage.
I like the interaction. It's a lot more interesting that simply casting Opportunity and refilling your hand.
PS: ... and now murder at rare. One wonders how basic lands stayed at common.
It sounds like you're complaining just for the sake of complaining. It's not the same as Murder, and it's been established that the effect "Destroy target planeswalker" appears at rare. Yes there are non-rares that can destroy planeswalkers, like Bramblecrush, but when they spell out "planeswalker" as part of a Black ability, it's rare. See: Dreadbore.
It's not the same as Murder, and it's been established that the effect "Destroy target planeswalker" appears at rare. Yes there are non-rares that can destroy planeswalkers, like Bramblecrush, but when they spell out "planeswalker" as part of a Black ability, it's rare. See: Dreadbore.
Which, frankly, doesn't make much sense in my book. A card that can deal with any permanent (including PW) can be non-rare, but a card that deal with a subset, if it explicitly mentions PW must be rare. Yes, I know, it's an edict from MaRo himself, so we have no say in its logic. It still makes no sense. I still don't like where the set and design in general is going right now. I'm awaiting the rest of the spoilers, but so far my inclination is to skip this paper pre-release. I don't look forward at the aggravation of opening lands or pin-point removal in the rare slot.
(Then again, even DGR right now feels bad. I've played for the first time in more than a week yesterday and once again had the crap pool vs. everyone else's multi-$$ mythics once again. Went 2-1 anyway because of the "quality" of the opposition... but didn't enjoy it much.)
Which, frankly, doesn't make much sense in my book. A card that can deal with any permanent (including PW) can be non-rare, but a card that deal with a subset, if it explicitly mentions PW must be rare
I think the issue here is that if it explicitly mentions Planeswalker, it is a more narrow effect, and can be cheaper. That particular narrow effect isn't a big deal in limited, and therefore fits better in the rare slot.
That said, if it is destroy creature or planeswalker, it kind of breaks the mold if "very narrow". So, I am guessing that this may be a misapplication of that design principle.
Yes, worse than an unprintably strong card. Even this inferior version is still strong enough that it's going to be all over Standard and I wouldn't be too surprised if it saw Modern play.
More importantly, in Limited it either gives you three cards or two good cards at Instant speed. Do you really want them printing better cards than that? Because I certainly don't!
I think the card overall is just a little bit too slow for modern. Then again, they've basically gotten rid of almost all the good card drawing spells in that format so it probably sees fringe play in UWR control. Still, this card isn't really what you want to be doing in modern most of the time. Four mana is a million, and the one deck that would play this also happens to run four cryptics. I just don't think they have room for more than 1-2 more high drops like that.
It's not the same as Murder, and it's been established that the effect "Destroy target planeswalker" appears at rare. Yes there are non-rares that can destroy planeswalkers, like Bramblecrush, but when they spell out "planeswalker" as part of a Black ability, it's rare. See: Dreadbore.
See: Despise. I would have liked Hero's Downfall at uncommon for limited, but I guess I can understand the flavor argument.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
After having seen half the set so far I think I have it narrowed down to green, red or blue, but probably not red. Blue has the best god for limited which is also one of the best cards in the set for limited. Making dudes unblockable is crazy good and the free scry every turn will help a ton. Even if it never becomes a creature, it's still really helpful. Blue also has access to Voyage's End which I think will be an all-star in this set, especially since it's common. It has a lot of potential to really mess with combat, especially as a way to shut off your opponents devotions and turn their gods back into enchantments and to get rid of monstrous stuff after they sunk a bunch of mana into it.
Red I like because so far we've seen a good amount of agro/burn type stuff. I think red could be the color to get the quick kill before monstrous stuff goes off. But that really hinges on how much of that agro/burn stuff you get and if there isn't enough I can see it petering out too soon with no late game.
Green seems really solid to me. It's a great base color that seems to be able to work well with all the other colors and all the green rares we've seen so far are playable if not really good. Green also gives you mana ramp which I think could be really good in a set like this.
White and black both seem fine to me but neither has really jumped out at me in any significant way that would make me pick them.
So that's my assessment so far. I'm still waiting on more of the set before I decide on a final color.
Flavor? Yes. Anything else? No. And I'm really hating the rules change on the Gods... and in general.
Seeing Murder at rare is disturbing... you don't generally see many "destroy target creature" cards in a set, and it's the only card spoiled so far that deals with that friggin Asp. Except Chained to the Unreliable Fixing.
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
It just feels so....meh. I mean sure it's cute, but I don't want a set of cute. I want a set of interesting. That thing just sits there as a 0/4 blocker until you assemble enough 1/1s to march past it and do some work.
1/1s? Really?
I would have preferred some kind of way to load up a group of creatures and let them push through unblocked.
Yes it really captures the flavor of how the Trojan Horse was forced on the Trojans against their will, and how they used it for defense, and how 1 puny Greek warrior emerged from it each day.
The mechanic should have been more interesting like accumulating counters for a few turns, and then sacrifice it and something big happens like you get a bunch of tokens with haste that you sacrifice at end of turn. Something at least resembling a delayed sneak attack.
The mechanic should have been more interesting like accumulating counters for a few turns, and then sacrifice it and something big happens like you get a bunch of tokens with haste that you sacrifice at end of turn. Something at least resembling a delayed sneak attack.
One counter each upkeep. Sacrifice: put that many 1/1s into play. Only any opponent may use this ability.
Me likes.
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
It just feels so....meh. I mean sure it's cute, but I don't want a set of cute. I want a set of interesting. That thing just sits there as a 0/4 blocker until you assemble enough 1/1s to march past it and do some work.
1/1s? Really?
Soldier tokens are always 1/1s, it's not too surprising. And you don't have to use the 1/1s to kill, you can use them as blockers while your evasive stuff wins the game.
I really like this card. As well as the flavour there's the fact that it does something interesting without being either broken or unplayable. That's exactly what I want for Limited!
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I wish WotC had not been so heavy-handed with the borrowing of Greek myths. I understand why they don't want to use the actual names from Greek myths ("Troy" doesn't exist on a fictional plane) but I think they could have done a better job of capturing the flavor of Greek mythology without literally borrowing the stories. I wouldn't have any issue of the flavor with Akroan Horse if they didn't make it exactly like the Trojan Horse.
It's not a card I'm interested in playing. It seems designed for Constructed where having a 1 mana counter is more important (being ruthlessly efficient with your mana is a bigger deal) and a 2/2 Flying has less impact on the board than in Limited.
Swan Song is going to fall somewhere along the "A little bit to a lot worse than Rapid Hybridization" axis (which: Hybridization was already not spectacular), and isn't really maindeckable unless you're scuffling for playables. Unlike Hybridization, it's not terribly flexible, since the situations where you counter your own stuff for the 2/2 are far fewer (and much riskier/more dire). I can't imagine keeping this in the board if I'm blue and my opponent casts a God, but that might be the only situation where I'd be enthusiastic about having it.
If the Trojan horse could contain arbitrary troops you'd end up with Blightsteel Colossus hiding in it. Just like in the Iliad.
Soldier tokens are always 1/1s, it's not too surprising. And you don't have to use the 1/1s to kill, you can use them as blockers while your evasive stuff wins the game.
I really like this card. As well as the flavour there's the fact that it does something interesting without being either broken or unplayable. That's exactly what I want for Limited!
Yeah, this... it tickles all the little game/card design buttons as being cool. Could be useful with enough sacrifice/anthem effects... we will see what shows its face on that though.
The only redeeming quality of the horse is the fact its colorless. Getting a dinky sole 1/1 per turn while you give your opponent a 0/4 to block with ain't so great. If you then dare attack him any fattish non-evasive guy... he'll just use the free horse to chump? Sure, in the best case scenario you slip him in a crazy UW sky deck and laugh your way to the bank win, but it's the only case I'd be happy to open one.
Swan song... ugh. Giving a free flying 2/2... i guess it will be playable because there *will* be bomby enchantments in almost every deck, but it will still feel pretty bad.
Also, we're starting to really see the weenie love. Still nothing much at commons, but boy, does Wizards love them one-drops.
Well, we finally got another common spoiled. Nessian Courser is officially in the set, but I imagine a lot of us had figured that out already (what with Nessian Asp, and the Planeswalker's Guide saying there are centaur "coursers" on Theros).
3-mana 3/3's are always excellent creatures in core sets, and it will probably be a solid common for green in this set, but that's hardly a given (3/3's were not so great in RTR, for instance).
So anyway, I guess it's pretty obvious we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as finding things to discuss for Limited. I always hate this part of spoiler season. They've shown off enough new cards to build some excitement, but they're almost exclusively spoiling rares. I always find myself checking the mothership at night and impatiently thinking "Yes, yes, new planeswalkers, now when are you going to show me all the constructed-unplayable commons? That's all I'm here for."
I think people are underestimating Swan's Song. Being able to counter a Bestow card is well worth a card and giving your opponent a 2/2 flier, not to mention all the bomby rare enchantments and instants/sorceries.
There's also some neat tricks you can pull off with Heroic and your own detrimental spells.
So anyway, I guess it's pretty obvious we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as finding things to discuss for Limited. I always hate this part of spoiler season. They've shown off enough new cards to build some excitement, but they're almost exclusively spoiling rares. I always find myself checking the mothership at night and impatiently thinking "Yes, yes, new planeswalkers, now when are you going to show me all the constructed-unplayable commons? That's all I'm here for."
With each new rare, we can be excited that it's not Pack Rat.
Yes, worse than an unprintably strong card. Even this inferior version is still strong enough that it's going to be all over Standard and I wouldn't be too surprised if it saw Modern play.
More importantly, in Limited it either gives you three cards or two good cards at Instant speed. Do you really want them printing better cards than that? Because I certainly don't!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I like the interaction. It's a lot more interesting that simply casting Opportunity and refilling your hand.
Minus the rather dubious value of being "gates", that is.
It sounds like you're complaining just for the sake of complaining. It's not the same as Murder, and it's been established that the effect "Destroy target planeswalker" appears at rare. Yes there are non-rares that can destroy planeswalkers, like Bramblecrush, but when they spell out "planeswalker" as part of a Black ability, it's rare. See: Dreadbore.
Which, frankly, doesn't make much sense in my book. A card that can deal with any permanent (including PW) can be non-rare, but a card that deal with a subset, if it explicitly mentions PW must be rare. Yes, I know, it's an edict from MaRo himself, so we have no say in its logic. It still makes no sense. I still don't like where the set and design in general is going right now. I'm awaiting the rest of the spoilers, but so far my inclination is to skip this paper pre-release. I don't look forward at the aggravation of opening lands or pin-point removal in the rare slot.
(Then again, even DGR right now feels bad. I've played for the first time in more than a week yesterday and once again had the crap pool vs. everyone else's multi-$$ mythics once again. Went 2-1 anyway because of the "quality" of the opposition... but didn't enjoy it much.)
I think the issue here is that if it explicitly mentions Planeswalker, it is a more narrow effect, and can be cheaper. That particular narrow effect isn't a big deal in limited, and therefore fits better in the rare slot.
That said, if it is destroy creature or planeswalker, it kind of breaks the mold if "very narrow". So, I am guessing that this may be a misapplication of that design principle.
*shrug*
I think the card overall is just a little bit too slow for modern. Then again, they've basically gotten rid of almost all the good card drawing spells in that format so it probably sees fringe play in UWR control. Still, this card isn't really what you want to be doing in modern most of the time. Four mana is a million, and the one deck that would play this also happens to run four cryptics. I just don't think they have room for more than 1-2 more high drops like that.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
See: Despise. I would have liked Hero's Downfall at uncommon for limited, but I guess I can understand the flavor argument.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Red I like because so far we've seen a good amount of agro/burn type stuff. I think red could be the color to get the quick kill before monstrous stuff goes off. But that really hinges on how much of that agro/burn stuff you get and if there isn't enough I can see it petering out too soon with no late game.
Green seems really solid to me. It's a great base color that seems to be able to work well with all the other colors and all the green rares we've seen so far are playable if not really good. Green also gives you mana ramp which I think could be really good in a set like this.
White and black both seem fine to me but neither has really jumped out at me in any significant way that would make me pick them.
So that's my assessment so far. I'm still waiting on more of the set before I decide on a final color.
You haven't seen half the set for Limited. You've seen half of the new cards. Packs are 71% commons, 21% uncommons, and 7% rares/mythics.
So far we've seen 20 commons, 26 uncommons, and 57 rares.
That's 25% of the commons, 33% of the uncommons, and 84% of the rares. (Basic lands excluded from analysis.)
We've effectively seen only 31% of the Limited card pool.
Flavor? Yes. Anything else? No. And I'm really hating the rules change on the Gods... and in general.
Seeing Murder at rare is disturbing... you don't generally see many "destroy target creature" cards in a set, and it's the only card spoiled so far that deals with that friggin Asp. Except Chained to the Unreliable Fixing.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
It just feels so....meh. I mean sure it's cute, but I don't want a set of cute. I want a set of interesting. That thing just sits there as a 0/4 blocker until you assemble enough 1/1s to march past it and do some work.
1/1s? Really?
I would have preferred some kind of way to load up a group of creatures and let them push through unblocked.
Yes it really captures the flavor of how the Trojan Horse was forced on the Trojans against their will, and how they used it for defense, and how 1 puny Greek warrior emerged from it each day.
The mechanic should have been more interesting like accumulating counters for a few turns, and then sacrifice it and something big happens like you get a bunch of tokens with haste that you sacrifice at end of turn. Something at least resembling a delayed sneak attack.
One counter each upkeep. Sacrifice: put that many 1/1s into play. Only any opponent may use this ability.
Me likes.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
Soldier tokens are always 1/1s, it's not too surprising. And you don't have to use the 1/1s to kill, you can use them as blockers while your evasive stuff wins the game.
I really like this card. As well as the flavour there's the fact that it does something interesting without being either broken or unplayable. That's exactly what I want for Limited!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
It's not a card I'm interested in playing. It seems designed for Constructed where having a 1 mana counter is more important (being ruthlessly efficient with your mana is a bigger deal) and a 2/2 Flying has less impact on the board than in Limited.
Yeah, this... it tickles all the little game/card design buttons as being cool. Could be useful with enough sacrifice/anthem effects... we will see what shows its face on that though.
bankwin, but it's the only case I'd be happy to open one.Swan song... ugh. Giving a free flying 2/2... i guess it will be playable because there *will* be bomby enchantments in almost every deck, but it will still feel pretty bad.
Also, we're starting to really see the weenie love. Still nothing much at commons, but boy, does Wizards love them one-drops.
3-mana 3/3's are always excellent creatures in core sets, and it will probably be a solid common for green in this set, but that's hardly a given (3/3's were not so great in RTR, for instance).
So anyway, I guess it's pretty obvious we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as finding things to discuss for Limited. I always hate this part of spoiler season. They've shown off enough new cards to build some excitement, but they're almost exclusively spoiling rares. I always find myself checking the mothership at night and impatiently thinking "Yes, yes, new planeswalkers, now when are you going to show me all the constructed-unplayable commons? That's all I'm here for."
There's also some neat tricks you can pull off with Heroic and your own detrimental spells.
With each new rare, we can be excited that it's not Pack Rat.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Ha! An excellent point.
In that spirit, I would like to offer my analysis of the latest rares:
Prognostic Sphinx: not Pack Rat
Soldier of the Pantheon: also not Pack Rat
HE'S BAAA-AAACK!
Ahem. If you remember M13 Limited, this guy (With the name 'Centaur Courser') was the Green Divination: You can never have enough in your deck.