I have to say that Bident of Thassa surprised me alot. I was UG and it won me 5 games by forcing my opponent to attack with his creatures and then win on the backswing.
I had a Bident and it was really good at least some of the time. It seems probably better in Draft than Sealed, since in Sealed it's hard to curve out evasive guys into Bident to draw a billion cards.
Also, I think people looked at the removal in this set and promptly overvalued black because it's the colour with all of the removal. Removal seems to be very weak in this format but it's paradoxically fine because it's also not very necessary. There aren't a lot of powerful evasive threats floating around, what removal is there does the job, and for the most part you're trying to swing board states in your favor by playing your own creatures. This feels to me like a format where killing everything they play, drawing cards, and then dropping some bomb isn't as much of a real strategy as it is in other formats.
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I went 5-2, good for 8th out of a ton, probably around 100. I chose the blue pack and played blue/white. My MVPs were Thassa's Emissary and Bident of Thassa, without a doubt. All that card draw, wow... it probably helped that I played 3 Aqueous Form, though
I was undefeated today playing R/W/b at The Next Level Games in Nashville. My thoughts on the common/uncommon pool:
Divine Verdict: Probably the best removal spell at common/uncommon. This set is battlecruiser Magic, and DV helps you take out your opponent's battlecruiser. A sterling example of the R in BREAD.
Deathbellow Raider: A great cheap beater who can stop threats on the ground late game, or even become a battlecruiser himself with a little help from his bestow friends. If you get any Kragma Warcallers, he gets even better.
Burnished Hart: Burnie can block and get you two lands. He's not Sakura Tribe-Elder, but color fixing is scarce. Take this guy high if you plan to play 3 colors.
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people are calling the 1/1 life link for W bestow 3W bad?
do you people even play this game?
Yes, and quite well, actually. Thanks for asking!
It's far too expensive to Bestow, and it's meaningless on the board as a 1/1. Do you consider yourself a strong card evaluator and still think that makes this card good?
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Providing a plethora of pompous and pedantic postings here since 2009.
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It's far too expensive to Bestow, and it's meaningless on the board as a 1/1. Do you consider yourself a strong card evaluator and still think that makes this card good?
4 is too expensive for bestow? what? you must think all bestow is horrible....
you dont play it for W, its pretty much bestow only.
we can kavu.ru if you really feel like it, you are insane if you think that card is bad. you seem to post quite a bit, im sure i can bring up a post where your evaluations are dead wrong.
you dont play it for W, its pretty much bestow only.
we can kavu.ru if you really feel like it, you are insane if you think that card is bad. you seem to post quite a bit, im sure i can bring up a post where your evaluations are dead wrong.
The post where he claims the 1/1 lifelinker - bestow for 3W seems like a pretty good exampe of a dead wrong evaluation.
The guy is very good. Cant imagine ever playing white in limited and not maindecking him. Too expensive for Bestow? Pretty sure he is the cheapest bestow cost in the set, and is insane if you are playing any heroic creature that receive +1+1 counters when targetted
The 1/1 lifelinker bestow is great if you managed to curve a turn 3 Wingsteed Rider into a turn 4 bestow.
This. I only managed to pull that play off once, but when I did, it was backbreaking.
In terms of costs, I think of it this way: You're paying for any other additional triggers that Bestow causes, too - AKA Heroic. So with most Heroic dudes, it's a +2/+2 and lifelink for 4 aura that leaves a 1/1 lifelinker behind. Which is, well, very good in Limited, especially with evasion. And, as mentioned, that Bestow cost is cheap which allows you to curve it from nice T3 plays. There are heroic dudes at 3 I'd love bestowing this on - in addition to the Rider, Fabled Hero, for example.
Hopeful Eidolon is good - it's not an OMG card, but if I'm playing white I'd be happy to see it passed to me.
I think that if W/x heroic ever becomes a thing in draft, Hopeful Eidolon will be one of the key cards for that archetype. You're gonna want to spend turn 2 and 3 dropping guys and start voltroning them turn 4+.
MVP rare - Shipbreaker Kraken
Whenever I made it Monstrous, I just won the game. Only reason Thassa doesn't take this spot is I only draw Thassa twice as opposed to the Kraken at least once a game.
It didn't hurt that I had 2 of them, a Thassa, God of the Sea, Curse of the Swine and Ashiok
Pegasus with a bunch of humans did so much work... I played mostly 1-3 drops and outraced everyone's bestowed/monstrous both days... By the time they had something I was draining them down for the win with the scholar... Or playing mogis to intimidate past for the last few points of damage... If I got the leader out with fabled hero and some other weenies it got ugly real fast.... Seemed like blacks uncommons and commons outclassed everyone I played both nights easily.
blue is definitely not the weakest color... i would put it as strongest or 2nd. i thought that was the general opinion also.
PERSONALLY my mvp, was bomb rares sadly. this format seemed pretty bomb dependent. a lot of games i would just play my whip or the black heroic rare and just head into victory. it was actually quite sickening tbh.
if i had to pick a non bomb MVP, it would be dissolve or the 2 mana force spike. they put in work.
i played in 4 flights, and didnt see a single 1 of the uncommon gorgons that kill a non gorgon.... and i picked blue or black every time as my prerelease pick.
I agree, U/B/W seems to be the strongest... I went undefeated two nights in arrow with B/W... The toughest match ups were against other black white and blue decks.... No other colors gave me a problem at all... I think blues heroic enablers are the best if they get ticking while blacks devotion guys are better...
White humans goes along way if you can get a couple of the Pegasus that give them flying and get good combat tricks....
Griptide, Anax and Cymede, and Dauntless Onslaught were MVPs in 2 Headed Giant for me and my friend. Griptide won 2 out of our 3 wins, and Anax and Cymede w/ Dauntless Onslaught did the killing blow all 3 of our wins.
ended up 3 - 1 over the night, winning 8 packs for the team.
I played a couple more pre-releases today. In the early one in which I went blue, I pulled Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Master of Waves. Both of those cards are just a massive beating, especially if you can protect them. Something else I didn't even realize either is that Master of Waves buffs Vaporkin because they're Elementals.
Ashiok though, honestly, he was just incredible when he came down. At VERY least, he's a potent damage sponge. Then if you can protect him, the ability to start using your opponent's creatures against them (ESPECIALLY if you get a good finisher out of the deal) all while either keeping your mana open for control or playing your own stuff... it's just brutal. Seriously, I loved playing him.
Griptide and and Voyage's End were super reliable and I used them every game to good effect.
Shipwreck Singer - this was one of my two MVPs. I pulled two of these, and was lucky to draw at least one nearly every game. One on its own did good things. Two? Game over, thank you very much.
Psychic Intrusion was amazing! A bit expensive, but it was devastating for my opponent every time I played it. Turn you play it you steal their best card, turn after you play their best card (or not, just leave it exiled and taunt them with it). It was worth including even for the single moment where I stole Xenagos!!
Anyway, it went pretty well: I didn't lose a single game till the final (but then lost 0-2 lol)
4 is too expensive for bestow? what? you must think all bestow is horrible....
you dont play it for W, its pretty much bestow only.
we can kavu.ru if you really feel like it, you are insane if you think that card is bad. you seem to post quite a bit, im sure i can bring up a post where your evaluations are dead wrong.
First of all, you really don't want to try comparing stats with me. I posted mine in the bragging thread, if you want to check them out. And that was a month ago. I'm 27-2-3 since then, with 7 of the matches being random local modern tourneys. Don't bring personal accomplishments into a conversation like this, internet all star. It's never going to go the way you want it to.
I saw the Eidolon played about 6 times over the weekend, all but one time played for Bestow. The problem isn't that W3 is super expensive or anything. It's that the boost is menial, and the ability, while cute, isn't game-breaking unless you already have a game-breaking creature. Yeah, it feels great to slap this on a Shipbreaker Kraken, but if the Kraken was already dominating, then Bestowing it is the definition of "win more." From what I saw this weekend, Bestow is really only worthwhile if the guy it leaves behind can do something in combat or, at worst, if it gives a significant statistical or ability boost (see the Nimbus Naiad cycle; every one of those grants an ability that's universally more relevant than lifelink).
Of course, there's always Magical Christmasland, where you suit up your Wingsteed Rider on turn four and your opponent can't do anything about it, but when they can, you have yourself a completely irrelevant creature on the board in your 1/1. Being able to chump something and gain a life does not suddenly turn him into card advantage. Yeah, Observant Alseid doesn't leave behind a huge body, but a 2/2 is quite a bit larger functionally than a 1/1, and vigilance is far more combat relevant than lifelink in terms of making it an aura. Also, consider that much of the removal in the set is numerical, so that 1 extra p/t boost is hugely relevant as well, thanks to cards like Rage of Purphuros and Lash of the Whip.
The value of Bestow is that it leaves a guy behind, negating the usual card advantage loss that you risk when running auras. However, they're generally overcosted for their effects, which means you're actually paying for them to have that failsafe built in. If that extra mana investment isn't worth the contingency plan, the card becomes much worse, both in theory and from my admittedly limited sampling.
Both of us might be wrong here (and I'm fine being wrong; it's part of the evaluation game), but you've provided zero analysis at all, instead puffing out your chest hilariously after having contributed nothing to warrant it. I can't say I don't enjoy getting into these kinds of debates, but I will say I enjoy doing so with people who think they're hotter than the sun because they're the biggest guppy swimming around in their local puddle.
Edit: Just read LSV's white set review, in which he places the card pretty highly. I'll rethink it now, but I'm not sold at all. Many people in the comments section also express surprise in this rating, and I would be shocked if we weren't considering the card to be mediocre at best in a month. Again, though, I'm open to being wrong, but not just because someone says so haughtily.
Signalling is like farting: it's a natural thing that helps people avoid being where you are, and if you try to do it deliberately, things turn to crap fast.
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You have to agree that it's broken if you play it wrong though.
do you people even play this game?
Also, I think people looked at the removal in this set and promptly overvalued black because it's the colour with all of the removal. Removal seems to be very weak in this format but it's paradoxically fine because it's also not very necessary. There aren't a lot of powerful evasive threats floating around, what removal is there does the job, and for the most part you're trying to swing board states in your favor by playing your own creatures. This feels to me like a format where killing everything they play, drawing cards, and then dropping some bomb isn't as much of a real strategy as it is in other formats.
Divine Verdict: Probably the best removal spell at common/uncommon. This set is battlecruiser Magic, and DV helps you take out your opponent's battlecruiser. A sterling example of the R in BREAD.
Deathbellow Raider: A great cheap beater who can stop threats on the ground late game, or even become a battlecruiser himself with a little help from his bestow friends. If you get any Kragma Warcallers, he gets even better.
Burnished Hart: Burnie can block and get you two lands. He's not Sakura Tribe-Elder, but color fixing is scarce. Take this guy high if you plan to play 3 colors.
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Yes, and quite well, actually. Thanks for asking!
It's far too expensive to Bestow, and it's meaningless on the board as a 1/1. Do you consider yourself a strong card evaluator and still think that makes this card good?
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
4 is too expensive for bestow? what? you must think all bestow is horrible....
you dont play it for W, its pretty much bestow only.
we can kavu.ru if you really feel like it, you are insane if you think that card is bad. you seem to post quite a bit, im sure i can bring up a post where your evaluations are dead wrong.
How?
The post where he claims the 1/1 lifelinker - bestow for 3W seems like a pretty good exampe of a dead wrong evaluation.
The guy is very good. Cant imagine ever playing white in limited and not maindecking him. Too expensive for Bestow? Pretty sure he is the cheapest bestow cost in the set, and is insane if you are playing any heroic creature that receive +1+1 counters when targetted
This. I only managed to pull that play off once, but when I did, it was backbreaking.
In terms of costs, I think of it this way: You're paying for any other additional triggers that Bestow causes, too - AKA Heroic. So with most Heroic dudes, it's a +2/+2 and lifelink for 4 aura that leaves a 1/1 lifelinker behind. Which is, well, very good in Limited, especially with evasion. And, as mentioned, that Bestow cost is cheap which allows you to curve it from nice T3 plays. There are heroic dudes at 3 I'd love bestowing this on - in addition to the Rider, Fabled Hero, for example.
Hopeful Eidolon is good - it's not an OMG card, but if I'm playing white I'd be happy to see it passed to me.
This card let me ramp into my bombs before aggro killed me.
Which leads me to...
MVP Uncommon: Keepsake Gorgon
I pretty much managed to play her in every one of my games.
Stopped aggro dead-cold, and the monstrous effect went off several times.
Finally,
MVP Common: Griptide
For obvious reasons.
Especially since I wasn't graced with a single Voyage's End, despite getting Blue.
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Town Victory
Whenever I made it Monstrous, I just won the game. Only reason Thassa doesn't take this spot is I only draw Thassa twice as opposed to the Kraken at least once a game.
It didn't hurt that I had 2 of them, a Thassa, God of the Sea, Curse of the Swine and Ashiok
MVP uncommon was Thassa's Emissary
MVP common was Omenspeaker
I think I just had the God box for Blue.
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MVP Rares Pr1 = spear of Heliod destroy target creature!
Pr2 = fabled hero combined with a very synergistic deck
MVP uncommons/commons = mogis's maraudercalvary pegasus phalanx leaderscholar of atheros
Pegasus with a bunch of humans did so much work... I played mostly 1-3 drops and outraced everyone's bestowed/monstrous both days... By the time they had something I was draining them down for the win with the scholar... Or playing mogis to intimidate past for the last few points of damage... If I got the leader out with fabled hero and some other weenies it got ugly real fast.... Seemed like blacks uncommons and commons outclassed everyone I played both nights easily.
I agree, U/B/W seems to be the strongest... I went undefeated two nights in arrow with B/W... The toughest match ups were against other black white and blue decks.... No other colors gave me a problem at all... I think blues heroic enablers are the best if they get ticking while blacks devotion guys are better...
White humans goes along way if you can get a couple of the Pegasus that give them flying and get good combat tricks....
He is a card, the other black devotion guy is awesome too modis's marauder
ended up 3 - 1 over the night, winning 8 packs for the team.
Legacy - GW Enchantress
Modern - U Urzatron (In construction)
Multiplayer - B ZOMBIES
Casual - B Suicide Black
Casual - WURx Krark-Clan Ironworks
Pauper - URBx Affinity
Pauper - B Pestilence
Pauper - W Steel Soldiers
EDH - W Isamaru, Hound of Konda 1V1
EDH - GRB Kresh the Bloodbraided
EDH - GW Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
EDH - UR Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
EDH - RB Lyzolda, The Blood Witch
EDH - UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster (Reworking)
EDH - UB Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
EDH - UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
EDH - WUG Phelddagrif
EDH - BGR Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
Pauper EDH - G Garruk's Packleader
Pauper EDH - RG Bloodbraid Elf
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Ashiok though, honestly, he was just incredible when he came down. At VERY least, he's a potent damage sponge. Then if you can protect him, the ability to start using your opponent's creatures against them (ESPECIALLY if you get a good finisher out of the deal) all while either keeping your mana open for control or playing your own stuff... it's just brutal. Seriously, I loved playing him.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Shipwreck Singer - this was one of my two MVPs. I pulled two of these, and was lucky to draw at least one nearly every game. One on its own did good things. Two? Game over, thank you very much.
Psychic Intrusion was amazing! A bit expensive, but it was devastating for my opponent every time I played it. Turn you play it you steal their best card, turn after you play their best card (or not, just leave it exiled and taunt them with it). It was worth including even for the single moment where I stole Xenagos!!
Anyway, it went pretty well: I didn't lose a single game till the final (but then lost 0-2 lol)
First of all, you really don't want to try comparing stats with me. I posted mine in the bragging thread, if you want to check them out. And that was a month ago. I'm 27-2-3 since then, with 7 of the matches being random local modern tourneys. Don't bring personal accomplishments into a conversation like this, internet all star. It's never going to go the way you want it to.
I saw the Eidolon played about 6 times over the weekend, all but one time played for Bestow. The problem isn't that W3 is super expensive or anything. It's that the boost is menial, and the ability, while cute, isn't game-breaking unless you already have a game-breaking creature. Yeah, it feels great to slap this on a Shipbreaker Kraken, but if the Kraken was already dominating, then Bestowing it is the definition of "win more." From what I saw this weekend, Bestow is really only worthwhile if the guy it leaves behind can do something in combat or, at worst, if it gives a significant statistical or ability boost (see the Nimbus Naiad cycle; every one of those grants an ability that's universally more relevant than lifelink).
Of course, there's always Magical Christmasland, where you suit up your Wingsteed Rider on turn four and your opponent can't do anything about it, but when they can, you have yourself a completely irrelevant creature on the board in your 1/1. Being able to chump something and gain a life does not suddenly turn him into card advantage. Yeah, Observant Alseid doesn't leave behind a huge body, but a 2/2 is quite a bit larger functionally than a 1/1, and vigilance is far more combat relevant than lifelink in terms of making it an aura. Also, consider that much of the removal in the set is numerical, so that 1 extra p/t boost is hugely relevant as well, thanks to cards like Rage of Purphuros and Lash of the Whip.
The value of Bestow is that it leaves a guy behind, negating the usual card advantage loss that you risk when running auras. However, they're generally overcosted for their effects, which means you're actually paying for them to have that failsafe built in. If that extra mana investment isn't worth the contingency plan, the card becomes much worse, both in theory and from my admittedly limited sampling.
Both of us might be wrong here (and I'm fine being wrong; it's part of the evaluation game), but you've provided zero analysis at all, instead puffing out your chest hilariously after having contributed nothing to warrant it. I can't say I don't enjoy getting into these kinds of debates, but I will say I enjoy doing so with people who think they're hotter than the sun because they're the biggest guppy swimming around in their local puddle.
Edit: Just read LSV's white set review, in which he places the card pretty highly. I'll rethink it now, but I'm not sold at all. Many people in the comments section also express surprise in this rating, and I would be shocked if we weren't considering the card to be mediocre at best in a month. Again, though, I'm open to being wrong, but not just because someone says so haughtily.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance: