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It's either Griptide or Naiad. I lean a little towards Griptide, but could go either way. The Naiad is excellent, but Griptide on a monstrous or bestowed creature is a massive tempo swing.
Probably the better cards and definitely less replaceable.
Griptide has Voyage's End.
Huh. I feel the opposite way. Not that Griptide is necessarily better, but that it's much less replaceable. THS is chock full of threats, not so much removal. Not to mention it's chock-full of backbreaking topdecks.
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Hardened: you're right, but consider that the Naiad is often one of those backbreaking topdecks. Also, while Griptide is very good, strong, resilient threats are simply more valuable than answers in this set, and Bestow guys are some of the best threats available.
I'm pretty confident in saying that Nimbus Naiad is blue's best common, and it's one of the top five commons in the set of any color.
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Providing a plethora of pompous and pedantic postings here since 2009.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
Signalling is like farting: it's a natural thing that helps people avoid being where you are, and if you try to do it deliberately, things turn to crap fast.
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Well we knew this could happen after taking a double colour card. Unfortunately the only choice is the colour we passed last pack, U. Still roll with it.
Take Nimbus Naiad, which is like slightly better then Griptide
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2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
Griptide without a doubt on this side. Naiad is good and all, but I feel that a certain amount of those effects are needed in order for a Ux slower-than-heroic deck to consistently get past the first turns of the game. Even if we go some sort of UW heroic route this card is still a huge hit and tempo and can be pure card advantage.
When do we start to feel a little bit of remorse, if ever, by picking the multi-colored, aggressive rare over the good mono-colored bestow creature in Nimbus Naiad? I've always had trouble being able to convince myself to go into two colors first pick unless it's a slower card that's still extremely bomby (Prophet of Kruphix). It's also become apparent to me that lots of people force heroic archetypes and, even when not forced, they are heavily overdrafted.
When do we start to feel a little bit of remorse, if ever, by picking the multi-colored, aggressive rare over the good mono-colored bestow creature in Nimbus Naiad?
Never.
Even if we end up going mono blue, that P1p1 Naiad wouldn't make or break our deck, and we would have had no way of knowing it was the pick that fit our seat. Regretting correct decisions based on future information is a great way to suck all the fun and tactical interest out of drafting.
P1p1 is always a crap shoot, regardless of what you take. In fact, so is P1p2, for that matter. We aren't solidly in any deck yet.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I'm stunned that people rank Griptide ahead of Nimbus Naiad. Wouldn't you rather be the threat demanding an answer?
Based on my experience I wouldn't consider Griptide over Naiad unless I had like 3 Naiads in my pile already and wanted to diversify.
To be clear (and this is gonna sound really stupid; it likely is) I actually rank Naiad ever-so-slightly ahead of Griptide in pure power level. However, I have had no problem putting a threat on the board (Scrymera, Sealock Monster, and Vaporkin, for very loose examples) and a lot of problems interacting with my opponents. Griptide is my favorite way of interacting- while it rarely leads to CA-type blowouts, it can lead to massive tempo blowouts, and in my experience, Theros is tempo. I prefer to be reactive in this set.
FWIW: I have drafted mostly UB or UG so far. UB probably prefers Griptide, UG they're likely even, UW clearly wants Naiad. UR can suck an egg.
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
One thing people aren't seeming to see is that if you take griptide or nimbus naiad, you're passing the other card, as well as a vaporkin. Both cards are clearly top picks, which means if you go into blue here, there's a good chance your pack 2 will be pretty awful. I think I would take the Mogis's Marauder here, the only good black card, and pass a pack with good blue and not much else. Leaves me much more open to finding usable cards later on.
Edit: Just noticed we passed zero good black cards in pick 1, and we already passed another nimbus naiad. Moving into blue here almost assures us a garbage pack 2.
I'm taking Griptide here because it's really good AND because it's reeeeally good against the deck I'd be trying to force, which is RW aggro. A p1p1 A&C is good enough to just force it all the way barring some sort of complete drought.
Passing back-to-back Naiad is still going to put a close player to our left in blue.
One thing people aren't seeming to see is that if you take griptide or nimbus naiad, you're passing the other card, as well as a vaporkin. Both cards are clearly top picks, which means if you go into blue here, there's a good chance your pack 2 will be pretty awful.
But...by that same logic, the person passing to us should stay the heck out of Blue and feed it to us in Packs 1 & 3. In other words we'll get twice as much Blue by drafting it, compared to what we might lose in Pack 2. Passing an open color because it's "too open" is a great way to hand the guy to your left a 3-0 deck.
But...by that same logic, the person passing to us should stay the heck out of Blue and feed it to us in Packs 1 & 3. In other words we'll get twice as much Blue by drafting it, compared to what we might lose in Pack 2. Passing an open color because it's "too open" is a great way to hand the guy to your left a 3-0 deck.
Y'know, at pXp2 of a draft, I don't think I'd ever take Marauder over Naiad. IOW, I'd rather always splash Naiad in a non-blue deck than take Marauder.
But we don't know that blue is open yet. All we know is that by sending a naiad in pick 1, then either a naiad or a griptide in pick 2, is that were sending the message that blue is open. If we saw naiad and griptide at pick 5 on, I would say jump in blue for sure, but this early, we only know the signals that we are sending. Personally, I would rather capitalize on the fact that we can send a strong signal that blue is open and that black, white, and red are fairly shut off, than take a blue pick here and hope the next few picks pay off.
One thing people aren't seeming to see is that if you take griptide or nimbus naiad, you're passing the other card, as well as a vaporkin. Both cards are clearly top picks, which means if you go into blue here, there's a good chance your pack 2 will be pretty awful. I think I would take the Mogis's Marauder here, the only good black card, and pass a pack with good blue and not much else. Leaves me much more open to finding usable cards later on.
Edit: Just noticed we passed zero good black cards in pick 1, and we already passed another nimbus naiad. Moving into blue here almost assures us a garbage pack 2.
I really think I would have to agree with this guy I probably would take Mogis's Marauder You already passed pack one blue, you pass pack two blue, pick cards you are not passing for a better chance at a stronger synergy pack 2.
By your logic, we do! Assuming the person passing to us is just as rational and knowledgeable as us (which is what you should always assume in a draft) then because he passed us this pack, he should avoid Blue. Thereby making it open.
If our opponents do not behave as we do, then we shouldn't try to predict their actions. In either direction.
It's a logical fallacy because at some point, someone has to take the Blue cards. If Blue is not open to us -- oh well. It's not like we have any reason to believe Black is open either. If Blue is open to us, then yea we might fight over it in Pack 2 but we'll have the better cut of Blue in Packs 1 & 3. It's best to take the most powerful card and see where things go.
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My Decks:
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I default to Bestow Creature over Removal.
Huh. I feel the opposite way. Not that Griptide is necessarily better, but that it's much less replaceable. THS is chock full of threats, not so much removal. Not to mention it's chock-full of backbreaking topdecks.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
I'm pretty confident in saying that Nimbus Naiad is blue's best common, and it's one of the top five commons in the set of any color.
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:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
Take Nimbus Naiad, which is like slightly better then Griptide
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
When do we start to feel a little bit of remorse, if ever, by picking the multi-colored, aggressive rare over the good mono-colored bestow creature in Nimbus Naiad? I've always had trouble being able to convince myself to go into two colors first pick unless it's a slower card that's still extremely bomby (Prophet of Kruphix). It's also become apparent to me that lots of people force heroic archetypes and, even when not forced, they are heavily overdrafted.
Never.
Even if we end up going mono blue, that P1p1 Naiad wouldn't make or break our deck, and we would have had no way of knowing it was the pick that fit our seat. Regretting correct decisions based on future information is a great way to suck all the fun and tactical interest out of drafting.
P1p1 is always a crap shoot, regardless of what you take. In fact, so is P1p2, for that matter. We aren't solidly in any deck yet.
I even get to say 'told you so!'
(I'm sooooo skilled.)
Based on my experience I wouldn't consider Griptide over Naiad unless I had like 3 Naiads in my pile already and wanted to diversify.
To be clear (and this is gonna sound really stupid; it likely is) I actually rank Naiad ever-so-slightly ahead of Griptide in pure power level. However, I have had no problem putting a threat on the board (Scrymera, Sealock Monster, and Vaporkin, for very loose examples) and a lot of problems interacting with my opponents. Griptide is my favorite way of interacting- while it rarely leads to CA-type blowouts, it can lead to massive tempo blowouts, and in my experience, Theros is tempo. I prefer to be reactive in this set.
FWIW: I have drafted mostly UB or UG so far. UB probably prefers Griptide, UG they're likely even, UW clearly wants Naiad. UR can suck an egg.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
Edit: Just noticed we passed zero good black cards in pick 1, and we already passed another nimbus naiad. Moving into blue here almost assures us a garbage pack 2.
Passing back-to-back Naiad is still going to put a close player to our left in blue.
But...by that same logic, the person passing to us should stay the heck out of Blue and feed it to us in Packs 1 & 3. In other words we'll get twice as much Blue by drafting it, compared to what we might lose in Pack 2. Passing an open color because it's "too open" is a great way to hand the guy to your left a 3-0 deck.
+1
I really think I would have to agree with this guy I probably would take Mogis's Marauder You already passed pack one blue, you pass pack two blue, pick cards you are not passing for a better chance at a stronger synergy pack 2.
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?
By your logic, we do! Assuming the person passing to us is just as rational and knowledgeable as us (which is what you should always assume in a draft) then because he passed us this pack, he should avoid Blue. Thereby making it open.
If our opponents do not behave as we do, then we shouldn't try to predict their actions. In either direction.
It's a logical fallacy because at some point, someone has to take the Blue cards. If Blue is not open to us -- oh well. It's not like we have any reason to believe Black is open either. If Blue is open to us, then yea we might fight over it in Pack 2 but we'll have the better cut of Blue in Packs 1 & 3. It's best to take the most powerful card and see where things go.