I hope you're not trying to send those tokens into a ground wall. Turns out they're Cylons... or the Thing.
D'oh!
You know, I remember 'learning' this distinction not too long ago, but for whatever reason forgot it when I made the original comment. Anthousa's effect also only creates 'Warriors', not 'Human Warriors'.
Eidolon is defensible here. It's a more important component of a black deck than Pegasus is of white decks. Oread and Battlemaster are eminently replaceable, especially the Battlemaster, which is a mediocre 5-drop with no utility.
Anyone who's saying that Pegasus is the clear pick because we have a whitish card already is making the wrong argument. We aren't "in white" any more than we would be "in black" if we took the Eidolon. The right argument is that we would like to be be building a deck with strong synergy, and while it is very early to start making power sacrifices to do that, Pegasus and A&C is pretty darn good synergy.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I'd take the Cavalry Pegasus here. It's a card that I've seen be surprisingly effective, because a lot of small flyers is really annoying, and outright impossible to race for some decks.
In a vacuum, Eidolon is better, but I like the pegasus. I'm also less enthused about picking an Oread this early.
I think we're drastically overrating the Pegasus here. It's a decent card in one archetype, but it's something you pick up late when you think you might be the white deck with a bunch of humans. It's not P1P3 material.
Spearpoint Oread isn't crazy exciting or anything, but decent bestow creatures are always worth picking up, and it's in a relevant color for us.
I agree Baleful Eidolon is the best card here. Not a fan of Battlemaster, so pick is between Eidolon, Oread, and Pegasus. I initially was leaning towards Oread, but you guys are right in saying in RW the Pegasus is much better and if that does not pan out we wont miss and Oread to much.
Cavalry Pegasus
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Top MTGO Limited Rating: 1968
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
Spearpoint Oread is much better if we end up going Rx than Pegasus is if we end up going Wx. It's true that Pegasus > Oread in RW but that's by no means a given.
Don't know why the guy said 'yuck' above me, this is a really interesting pack and pick acutally!
Interesting perhaps but it is a pretty weak pack. Baleful Eidolon is the strongest card here, there is no blue, and the W/ cards are at best decent. While picking the "right" card here might be an interesting thing to do, as a player of the deck I would not want to see this as my P1P3. That's why I said "Yuck."
I guess I'll vote now. Baleful Eidolon just isn't exciting enough for me to want to pick it over the other cards in the pack. It's the best card but not by enough.
Oread just isn't a card I'm impressed with. It's not horrible by any means but it's never amazing either. Costing 3/6 mana is just a touch too much for me to be happy with it.
Pegasus isn't amazing but it is potentially a card I'd want in my final deck with enough human support and if that doesn't happen it's at least a two drop and it wears enablers (like Bestow/Dragon Mantle) well.
I suppose my vote is for Cavalry Pegasus but I wouldn't be upset if Oread won.
This pack contains four cards that are as close to unplayable as it gets in THS. We will be wheeling Ox, Boulderfall, Messengers Speed and Flamecast Wheel.
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
I really don't like taking Cavalry Pegasus here. The card's power level is just not very high overall. I would rather take cards that are actual threats on their own, and chances are we'll see another Cavalry Pegasus later on.
I also don't understand how so many people are advocating passing Baleful Eidolon after being so adamant about taking the best card in the pack in several other threads recently (though maybe those people were just silent in that thread). Does the logic go, it's only marginally better than Spearpoint Oread, so best take the card that can be played alongside our bomb? Versus last pack there were no red or white cards even close to the Naiad?
Spearpoint Oread, but I think it's close between that and the Eidolon.
Pegasus is great in RW human heroic. We have one such card so far and nothing in p1p2 and this p1p3 indicates that white is open in any way.
Oread is nice. First strike is powerful in a set that reward attacking and punishes blocking. It makes blocking eveb more painful.
The elephant in the room is green. We have a pack here with middle of the road WR card, a single black card (which may indicate people passing to us took black cards or the pack was just very weak black-wise) but contains three green cards. Unfortunately, they're all late picks (except surge), which may not be indicative. Someone may have picked polukranos or something like that.
If there had been an asp or a dryad among the three, I'd have said to jump into green. As it is, I'd rarther stay RW for now. Both potential cards are valid picks, pegasus being better if we do end-up RW human heroic, oread is safer. I'll go with pegasus, but I'm not really comfortable with this pick.
Does the logic go, it's only marginally better than Spearpoint Oread, so best take the card that can be played alongside our bomb? Versus last pack there were no red or white cards even close to the Naiad?
Sort of. The logic is, "take the most powerful card in the pack." "Power," in this case, means so many things in so many contexts. Rarely (as in, every p1p1, most p1p2, and increasingly less so as you go on) does it refer to power-in-a-vacuum. Adding (or subtracting) from that power level is the chance that it will be cast- for the same reason Boulderfall is less powerful than Lightning Strike, a card that doesn't fit within your previous picks' colors loses "power." Picking a card that is in a different color than your previous picks has potential to be powerful tied to its representation of that color being open.
In a pick like p1p2, Naiad/Griptide is so far above the level of the competition that it is the consideration; you either end up in that color with a powerful card, or you don't without having paid much for it. Eidolon, while a very good role-player in Devotion or Bx control, is not splashable, nor is it a reason to speculate that Black might be open, therefore it has little chance to increase the power of our deck.
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Hardened: Going further, the extent to which you can quantify the context-driven 'power' of a card is exactly the extent to which you can create a draft AI.
Hardened: Going further, the extent to which you can quantify the context-driven 'power' of a card is exactly the extent to which you can create a draft AI.
More or less, this _is_ draft intelligence.
This quote gets so much better if you picture a Bon Jovi song climaxing behind it.
Sorry I paired "Bon Jovi" and "climaxing" together, guys... Merry Early Christmas!
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Yeah, Cavalry Pegasus vs Oread is a question of power for our first choice of deck vs consistency if we go in another direction. The Pegasus is awesome in RW, okay in UW, and pretty bad everywhere else. Oread is going to be decent in just about any deck in appears in. I think it's a bit early to be committing so heavily to RW.
The Pegasus is awesome in RW, okay in UW, and pretty bad everywhere else.
There's actually a surprising amount of humans in B. WB is a strange archetype that has been fairly solid for me.
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My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
MY only 3-0 draft so far was BW, but it's a very controlling archetype...I don't see the Pegasus as useful there, despite the number of black human creatures.
Clearly I've been underrating the pegasus. I know it's good in this archetype, but I don't know if I'm ready to commit to that right now. I'm really tempted to pick the green card. I can still hope to splash red or white for Anax if needed. Part of me really wants to play it safe and pick the Oread, but that six mana bestow is kind of a killer sometimes. I know it's too late now for this exercise, but I'm voting for the Centaur Battlemaster.
Hardened: Going further, the extent to which you can quantify the context-driven 'power' of a card is exactly the extent to which you can create a draft AI.
I really don't like taking Cavalry Pegasus here. The card's power level is just not very high overall.
First of all, I don't agree that pegasus isn't very powerful in an archetype like RW where there are a lot of humans. Also, we already have the best human in the format. While typically you shouldn't try to create minor synergies between your first few picks in a draft because you don't want to pass power for synergy, I don't really see baleful as a particularly powerful card - it's just another synergy card but for an archetype that we aren't in and frankly don't want to be in given what we have so far.
First of all, I don't agree that pegasus isn't very powerful in an archetype like RW where there are a lot of humans. Also, we already have the best human in the format. While typically you shouldn't try to create minor synergies between your first few picks in a draft because you don't want to pass power for synergy, I don't really see baleful as a particularly powerful card - it's just another synergy card but for an archetype that we aren't in and frankly don't want to be in given what we have so far.
I've just done too many drafts where I go 'aha, I'm in the perfect colors for this archetype!' and then fail to see any of the key cards required for said 'archetype.' So I prefer to draft cards I know are solid on their own (early, anyway) rather than cards that are strong role players but only in one deck. Baleful Eidolon's definitely in the former group. How is it a synergy card for an archetype? Don't you just play it in basically every black deck?
D'oh!
You know, I remember 'learning' this distinction not too long ago, but for whatever reason forgot it when I made the original comment. Anthousa's effect also only creates 'Warriors', not 'Human Warriors'.
Which makes sense I guess, being Lands and all...
Anyone who's saying that Pegasus is the clear pick because we have a whitish card already is making the wrong argument. We aren't "in white" any more than we would be "in black" if we took the Eidolon. The right argument is that we would like to be be building a deck with strong synergy, and while it is very early to start making power sacrifices to do that, Pegasus and A&C is pretty darn good synergy.
In a vacuum, Eidolon is better, but I like the pegasus. I'm also less enthused about picking an Oread this early.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Spearpoint Oread isn't crazy exciting or anything, but decent bestow creatures are always worth picking up, and it's in a relevant color for us.
Cavalry Pegasus
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
Interesting perhaps but it is a pretty weak pack. Baleful Eidolon is the strongest card here, there is no blue, and the W/ cards are at best decent. While picking the "right" card here might be an interesting thing to do, as a player of the deck I would not want to see this as my P1P3. That's why I said "Yuck."
I guess I'll vote now. Baleful Eidolon just isn't exciting enough for me to want to pick it over the other cards in the pack. It's the best card but not by enough.
Oread just isn't a card I'm impressed with. It's not horrible by any means but it's never amazing either. Costing 3/6 mana is just a touch too much for me to be happy with it.
Pegasus isn't amazing but it is potentially a card I'd want in my final deck with enough human support and if that doesn't happen it's at least a two drop and it wears enablers (like Bestow/Dragon Mantle) well.
I suppose my vote is for Cavalry Pegasus but I wouldn't be upset if Oread won.
This pack contains four cards that are as close to unplayable as it gets in THS. We will be wheeling Ox, Boulderfall, Messengers Speed and Flamecast Wheel.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
I also don't understand how so many people are advocating passing Baleful Eidolon after being so adamant about taking the best card in the pack in several other threads recently (though maybe those people were just silent in that thread). Does the logic go, it's only marginally better than Spearpoint Oread, so best take the card that can be played alongside our bomb? Versus last pack there were no red or white cards even close to the Naiad?
Spearpoint Oread, but I think it's close between that and the Eidolon.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
Pegasus is great in RW human heroic. We have one such card so far and nothing in p1p2 and this p1p3 indicates that white is open in any way.
Oread is nice. First strike is powerful in a set that reward attacking and punishes blocking. It makes blocking eveb more painful.
The elephant in the room is green. We have a pack here with middle of the road WR card, a single black card (which may indicate people passing to us took black cards or the pack was just very weak black-wise) but contains three green cards. Unfortunately, they're all late picks (except surge), which may not be indicative. Someone may have picked polukranos or something like that.
If there had been an asp or a dryad among the three, I'd have said to jump into green. As it is, I'd rarther stay RW for now. Both potential cards are valid picks, pegasus being better if we do end-up RW human heroic, oread is safer. I'll go with pegasus, but I'm not really comfortable with this pick.
Sort of. The logic is, "take the most powerful card in the pack." "Power," in this case, means so many things in so many contexts. Rarely (as in, every p1p1, most p1p2, and increasingly less so as you go on) does it refer to power-in-a-vacuum. Adding (or subtracting) from that power level is the chance that it will be cast- for the same reason Boulderfall is less powerful than Lightning Strike, a card that doesn't fit within your previous picks' colors loses "power." Picking a card that is in a different color than your previous picks has potential to be powerful tied to its representation of that color being open.
In a pick like p1p2, Naiad/Griptide is so far above the level of the competition that it is the consideration; you either end up in that color with a powerful card, or you don't without having paid much for it. Eidolon, while a very good role-player in Devotion or Bx control, is not splashable, nor is it a reason to speculate that Black might be open, therefore it has little chance to increase the power of our deck.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
More or less, this _is_ draft intelligence.
This quote gets so much better if you picture a Bon Jovi song climaxing behind it.
Sorry I paired "Bon Jovi" and "climaxing" together, guys... Merry Early Christmas!
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
There's actually a surprising amount of humans in B. WB is a strange archetype that has been fairly solid for me.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
Don't give me any ideas...
Hardened, thanks for the explanation.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
First of all, I don't agree that pegasus isn't very powerful in an archetype like RW where there are a lot of humans. Also, we already have the best human in the format. While typically you shouldn't try to create minor synergies between your first few picks in a draft because you don't want to pass power for synergy, I don't really see baleful as a particularly powerful card - it's just another synergy card but for an archetype that we aren't in and frankly don't want to be in given what we have so far.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
I've just done too many drafts where I go 'aha, I'm in the perfect colors for this archetype!' and then fail to see any of the key cards required for said 'archetype.' So I prefer to draft cards I know are solid on their own (early, anyway) rather than cards that are strong role players but only in one deck. Baleful Eidolon's definitely in the former group. How is it a synergy card for an archetype? Don't you just play it in basically every black deck?
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
1 Nimbus Naiad
1 Cavalry Pegasus
P1P4:
Mark your pick by either bolding it or putting it in Quote tags.
I have done myself and everyone else the courtesy of removing the basic lands this time. Next pick will be up tomorrow, have fun!