I went with Arbiter due to my old litmus test of "I my opponent and I both had one, which would I want?" That, and I prefer Blue.
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True, but your opponent getting to choose the mode makes it a bit worse than all that.. BNG printed a few sweepers for the birds, and even a Coastline Chimera can throw a wrench in the works. I do think it's close (hence the posting,) but Arbiter's CA engine and reliability put it slightly ahead.
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It's honestly not that close. 5CC for five power in the air, vs 6CC for four power in the air.
We should consider effect uniqueness as well. White is very good in BTT, Ornitharch does exactly what white decks want to be doing, and it's very difficult to get that kind of efficiency in flying in Theros (outside of Wingsteed Rider, which fills a different role in the deck entirely). Arbiter is essentially replaceable - Theros has commons that do similar things in your deck. I don't view the CA that Arbiter can give you (extraordinarily slowly) very highly. Horizon Scholar digs me two cards immediately to something I can cast next turn. Horizon Prescient Chimera is more efficiently costed and still competes in the air. So I see no reason to prioritize the fat blue flier because I'm going to have access to that effect.
I should acknowledge that five toughness is the magic number in Theros, and Arbiter does have that. And that does count for something. But it doesn't push it over Ornitharch in my evaluations.
In short, I would take Ornitharch because it's higher impact in a white deck than Arbiter is in a blue deck.
I think both options can work. I prefer W to U in theros (don't know about BotG yet) and 5 cmc vs 6 but at the same time Ideal's ability can be very strong. I would point out that 5 power vs 4 is a pretty big deal I find since 5 toughness is kinda the key breaking point (getting past Nessian Asp for example). Ornitharch doesn't give you that every time sure but if you don't get it then you get 2 1/1s who can swarm past blockers or chump to help you win the race so there is that. Really I wouldn't fault someone for picking either here.
In short, I would take Ornitharch because it's higher impact in a white deck than Arbiter is in a blue deck.
This, however, is a very good point. Still, while a 5/5 in the air is going to be nuts, you're only going to get that when your opponent judges it to be better than a 3/3 and two 1/1s... in some matchups, the 1/1s won't matter a bit.
Regarding the CA Arbiter provides; it is slow, sure.. but it's free. I've played a good few games with him so far, and the important part is that you're not going out of your way to swing with a 4/5 flier.. and getting free land drops at worst is still sweet as pie.
I don't fault you for picking Ornitharch, but it must certainly be closer than you think.
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This, however, is a very good point. Still, while a 5/5 in the air is going to be nuts, you're only going to get that when your opponent judges it to be better than a 3/3 and two 1/1s... in some matchups, the 1/1s won't matter a bit.
Regarding the CA Arbiter provides; it is slow, sure.. but it's free. I've played a good few games with him so far, and the important part is that you're not going out of your way to swing with a 4/5 flier.. and getting free land drops at worst is still sweet as pie.
I don't fault you for picking Ornitharch, but it must certainly be closer than you think.
Oh, I certainly find the extra drops from Arbiter to be sweet, but if I'm profitably attacking with a 4/5 flier I'm probably doing quite well that game anyway. So I evaluate Arbiter almost exclusively as a 6CC 4/5 flier (much like how I evaluate Prescient Chimera purely as a 5CC 3/4 flier and Chorus of the Tides purely as a 4CC 3/2 flier). And the worst isn't a land drop. It's flipping over a combat trick.
White decks generally have plenty of ways to augment bodies. In the majority of gamestates, the difference between a 5/5 flier and a 3/3 flier paired with 2 1/1 fliers is going to be negligible - I would hazard a guess (without much experience to back it up, in fairness) that somewhere around 60% of the time it's not going to matter which version they give you (and in the other 40% of the time, you're still getting a sweet deal, even if it's not immediately warping the board presence when you cast it). Hence the gross oversimplification.
My experience is somewhat warping my perspective as well I suppose. I've cast both Ornitharch and Arbiter multiple times at this point. Each time I cast Ornitharch I felt like I was in a commanding position. Each time I cast Arbiter I still felt good, but it wasn't amazing. I think this goes back to my earlier point: my white deck really wanted Ornitharch and it was an incredibly powerful curve-topper behind aggressive starts. My blue decks were certainly happy to have Arbiter, but he could have been anything big and flying at that point in the game and still have been good.
EDIT: I suppose I'm also coming at it from the perspective that I'm hoping to build an aggressive white deck. This means I'm hoping I can be red/white or blue/white. If I end up with the more midrangey green/white or the grindy black/white (which I generally tried to avoid in TTT), Ornitharch is not nearly as high-impact as I'm making it out to be.
In BTT, I'd take Gild. Unconditional removal, god insurance, fixing/ramp and in a color I like. In BBB (I know, unlikely) I'd take Ornitharch as White Control seems possible and Prescient/Coastline Chimera isn't a thing... plus black is weak.
It should be noted that nearly every deck I've drafted in this block has been blue, so Ornitharch seems a lot more manageable to me (though still possibly the best white uncommon, and very first-pickable.)
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I agree on Gild. It's a good enough piece of removal especially by this set's standards (Exiles any creature at 4 mana is good enough though not amazing. The gold token is just gravy) that I can justify taking it over a very strong card in Omitharch...
I have to take Ornitharch. 5 flying power for 5 mana is a fantastic deal. Plus, white is such a better color in BTT unless you get the absolute nuts in black. Gild is splashable and one of the better removal cards in the block, but I don't rate 1-for-1 removal as highly in this block as I would in others thanks to Heroic and Bestow. If you absolutely need an answer for something, there are plenty of white cards you can get as late picks that work just fine (e.g. Divine Verdict)
I was lucky enough to get those two in the same deck. Given the choice between the two, I'd pick Gild. The token was moderately relevant, but simply having a 4 mana spell that takes care of absolutely anything in this format is gold. The drawback on Ornitharch is more real than you might expect, simply because monster decks can outclass the creature + tokens, the control decks have a lot more removal, and aggro can bestow their way bast it. Still awesome, but not better than the best removal spell in the set.
Fall of the Hammer no question. Both are situational and leave you open to getting 2-for-1'ed, but Fall is going to be better most of the time, especially in the early game. The only consideration would be that blue is a better color overall
In BTT, Fall if the Hammer. It falls flat in BBB, but is crazy good in BTT. I like Helix a lot, especially with Wavecrash Triton.
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Why do you think Fall, umm, falls flat in BBB? It seems better there to me if anything - just seems like there are more low toughness creatures around to kill. I guess fewer cheap deathtouchers makes it worse?
In my limited experience with BBB, red's bodies don't match up in a timely manner with what you'd want to remove. Of course, this is based on one or two drafts I've had it in, so, salt it up.
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Problem I have with Retraction Helix is that it's too slow. It is not a reliable turn 2 or even turn 3 play most of the time. Compare that to Voyage's End which can bounce their Wingsteed Rider whenever, and you see the value difference.
Maybe in a very specific deck I'd prefer Retraction Helix over Voyage's End but Hammer is still an easy pick here.
Fall is definitely better than Helix. Barring Wavecrash Triton Fortune Hunter shenanigans, Helix is mediocre. Most importantly, Fall doesn't need a non-sick creature to work. P1P1 it's not even close - Fall is 100% the correct choice between the two, all the time.
That's not to say that I'm not happy to pick up a Helix or two if I've solidified myself in blue. But P1P1, I would never take Helix over Fall.
Glimpse for sure. Excoriate is pretty similar to Divine Verdict and I'd be about as likely to first-pick it (i.e. not very). In the deck it's good in (RW or UW with a lot of heroic creatures) Glimpse can be flat out amazing, and it's probably runnable in any deck that has white in it. It's not a windmill slam first pick no matter what, but I can certainly see myself first-picking it at times.
Arbiter of the Ideal vs. Ornitharch, p1p1.
I went with Arbiter due to my old litmus test of "I my opponent and I both had one, which would I want?" That, and I prefer Blue.
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We should consider effect uniqueness as well. White is very good in BTT, Ornitharch does exactly what white decks want to be doing, and it's very difficult to get that kind of efficiency in flying in Theros (outside of Wingsteed Rider, which fills a different role in the deck entirely). Arbiter is essentially replaceable - Theros has commons that do similar things in your deck. I don't view the CA that Arbiter can give you (extraordinarily slowly) very highly. Horizon Scholar digs me two cards immediately to something I can cast next turn.
HorizonPrescient Chimera is more efficiently costed and still competes in the air. So I see no reason to prioritize the fat blue flier because I'm going to have access to that effect.I should acknowledge that five toughness is the magic number in Theros, and Arbiter does have that. And that does count for something. But it doesn't push it over Ornitharch in my evaluations.
In short, I would take Ornitharch because it's higher impact in a white deck than Arbiter is in a blue deck.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
This is a gross oversimplification.
This, however, is a very good point. Still, while a 5/5 in the air is going to be nuts, you're only going to get that when your opponent judges it to be better than a 3/3 and two 1/1s... in some matchups, the 1/1s won't matter a bit.
Regarding the CA Arbiter provides; it is slow, sure.. but it's free. I've played a good few games with him so far, and the important part is that you're not going out of your way to swing with a 4/5 flier.. and getting free land drops at worst is still sweet as pie.
I don't fault you for picking Ornitharch, but it must certainly be closer than you think.
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Oh, I certainly find the extra drops from Arbiter to be sweet, but if I'm profitably attacking with a 4/5 flier I'm probably doing quite well that game anyway. So I evaluate Arbiter almost exclusively as a 6CC 4/5 flier (much like how I evaluate Prescient Chimera purely as a 5CC 3/4 flier and Chorus of the Tides purely as a 4CC 3/2 flier). And the worst isn't a land drop. It's flipping over a combat trick.
White decks generally have plenty of ways to augment bodies. In the majority of gamestates, the difference between a 5/5 flier and a 3/3 flier paired with 2 1/1 fliers is going to be negligible - I would hazard a guess (without much experience to back it up, in fairness) that somewhere around 60% of the time it's not going to matter which version they give you (and in the other 40% of the time, you're still getting a sweet deal, even if it's not immediately warping the board presence when you cast it). Hence the gross oversimplification.
My experience is somewhat warping my perspective as well I suppose. I've cast both Ornitharch and Arbiter multiple times at this point. Each time I cast Ornitharch I felt like I was in a commanding position. Each time I cast Arbiter I still felt good, but it wasn't amazing. I think this goes back to my earlier point: my white deck really wanted Ornitharch and it was an incredibly powerful curve-topper behind aggressive starts. My blue decks were certainly happy to have Arbiter, but he could have been anything big and flying at that point in the game and still have been good.
EDIT: I suppose I'm also coming at it from the perspective that I'm hoping to build an aggressive white deck. This means I'm hoping I can be red/white or blue/white. If I end up with the more midrangey green/white or the grindy black/white (which I generally tried to avoid in TTT), Ornitharch is not nearly as high-impact as I'm making it out to be.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Oughta be easier.
In BTT, I'd take Gild. Unconditional removal, god insurance, fixing/ramp and in a color I like. In BBB (I know, unlikely) I'd take Ornitharch as White Control seems possible and Prescient/Coastline Chimera isn't a thing... plus black is weak.
It should be noted that nearly every deck I've drafted in this block has been blue, so Ornitharch seems a lot more manageable to me (though still possibly the best white uncommon, and very first-pickable.)
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Battle of the top commons: Retraction Helix or Fall of the Hammer P1P1?
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Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
Problem I have with Retraction Helix is that it's too slow. It is not a reliable turn 2 or even turn 3 play most of the time. Compare that to Voyage's End which can bounce their Wingsteed Rider whenever, and you see the value difference.
Maybe in a very specific deck I'd prefer Retraction Helix over Voyage's End but Hammer is still an easy pick here.
That's not to say that I'm not happy to pick up a Helix or two if I've solidified myself in blue. But P1P1, I would never take Helix over Fall.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
I wouldn't want to first pick either though if I had anything better to choose from.
Seconded. Basically ranked this way because of difficulty to splash. I think on power level alone Fated Conflagration is the best card, followed by Fall of the Hammer, then Bolt of Keranos.