As I said, cards at that cost *should* win you the game usually. Leviathan will win you the game almost every time, and leave the opponent no means of stopping you from doing it.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between "usually" and "almost every time", nor do I understand the "leave the opponent no means of stopping you from doing it" part when that's the entire reason they win "usually" or "almost every time" (and you really meant to say "almost no means of stopping you from doing it" - you've already established that it's not unbeatable). What's acceptable and what isn't? What percentage of games should you win when you resolve an 8 drop finisher? 90%? 99%? 51%?
I open a Grindclock, a Jalira, and an In Garruk's Wake as my rares in the swiss draft I am currently doing. Could I please open something of value to my deck just once.....
Some people are so damn lucky at this game it is disgusting.
Have you observed their shuffling? Prolonged luck like this at a paper event points to mana weaving or worse.
This is a common misconception about probability. Probability accounts for outliers. Yes, most people approach average luck over enough time, but not everyone. That's the entire point. Some people will luck into consistently better luck through their lives than others, even over hundreds of individual events. People, particularly card players, seem to think that if 100,000 people all play 1,000 hands, all 100,000 of them will end up pretty close to 500 / 500 good luck / bad luck hands (pretend there aren't neutral hands). This is silly. There are going to be people all across the spectrum and even possibly some extreme outliers with absurdly good or absurdly bad luck - they'll simply be distributed closer to the middle as a whole group on average. If they all play a huge amount more, their random streaks of luck become less important, but a few nights at FNM is hardly a relevant number of events.
There aren't enough eye rolls to express how janky this was. I'd like to repeat...he was running a spell that cost XXBBBB in the same deck that including all 5 colors and a bunch of aggro Warriors. (To answer the follow-up question, I was mana flooded and then mana screwed. And he still almost timed out.)
There aren't enough eye rolls to express how janky this was. I'd like to repeat...he was running a spell that cost XXBBBB in the same deck that including all 5 colors and a bunch of aggro Warriors. (To answer the follow-up question, I was mana flooded and then mana screwed. And he still almost timed out.)
Variance will do what variance will do, and it can produce some crazy results. Not gonna lie though, using it with Warden of the Eye just seems rather silly. How the heck are you managing to cast that spell twice in a game of limited for reasonable value? I'd love to see his decklist just for the fun of it.
I'd love to see his decklist just for the fun of it.
Of course I don't know his entire deck list but it was probably 10 non-basic lands in all 5 colors, and whatever else he could find considering how many picks he spent on lands, and he played a turtle strategy. Even with all the fixing, he would only get to four-Black mana in the very late game so he was playing Empty the Pits as like a 20-drop. The deck wasn't good, any reasonable draw from my deck would have rolled over him. But I got bad draws so he was able to durdle his way to Zombie Army. I really think that was his only plan.
It's not that I think 5-color is bad. It's certainly viable. I just can't beleive Empty the Pits of all things was his only finisher. Usually when I see 5-color, I expect gold bombs. Pits is the exact opposite!
In my experience, every single deck in Magic looks awesome with a good draw, and awful with a bad draw. It also sounds like his deck worked exactly as planned - turtling until he could play his bombs. Maybe it wasn't a good plan, but it was a plan, and it worked, apparently.
I'd love to see his decklist just for the fun of it.
Of course I don't know his entire deck list but it was probably 10 non-basic lands in all 5 colors, and whatever else he could find considering how many picks he spent on lands, and he played a turtle strategy. Even with all the fixing, he would only get to four-Black mana in the very late game so he was playing Empty the Pits as like a 20-drop. The deck wasn't good, any reasonable draw from my deck would have rolled over him. But I got bad draws so he was able to durdle his way to Zombie Army. I really think that was his only plan.
It's not that I think 5-color is bad. It's certainly viable. I just can't beleive Empty the Pits of all things was his only finisher. Usually when I see 5-color, I expect gold bombs. Pits is the exact opposite!
Does it matter if it's a gold bomb or a BBBB bomb? Sure, he can't cast it until turn 20, but that's the point of a finisher in a deck like that. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it wins the game, cause that allows the rest of the deck to do the defense. I drafted a deck yesterday that had 1 Goblinslide, 1 Villainous Wealth and 2 Cranial Archive as the only "kill" conditions. The only two creatures in it were both 0/5s.
Obviously I can't tell if that guy's deck was good or bad, but I wouldn't just take your word for it to accept that it was bad. Maybe you just lost to bad luck, but there's nothing inherently wrong with a five color control deck that uses Empty the Pits as a finisher, and contains Warden of the Eye (and that's all I know about his deck now, except that it contained ten nonbasics, which is a good amount).
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
So tonight I drafted an abysmal BWGU deck... win conditions were basically 2 saddlebrutes, an abomination of gurdul and a sultai scavenger. I splashed white just to have enough playables (watcher of the roost made the cut...) 17 lands 2 banners. Despite not having any legitimate reason to expect to win I had two of the worst matches I've had yet in KTK.
First opponent is just on the durdliest deck in the universe. Its only win con is archer's parapet, abzan ascendancy, and a roar of challenge. Game 1 I'm down to 3 cards when he finally hits roar (I would have died to deck death anyways... my 3 fliers were literally in the bottom 5 cards). Game 2 I board in dragon throne of tarkir and get it on a 3/4 - so board stall should go my way right? Well he has so many mardu hateblades and rotting mastodons that I still can't profitably attack for several turns even with throne equipped. I instead peck him down to 10 with watcher of the roost. And of course, the critical turn I have to choose - play sultai scavenger, then untap and do rush of battle + throne for probably-lethal, or do rush of battle now for non-lethal but probably clear up the board a bit. I play scavenger... he untaps and topdecks - you guessed it, roar of challenge dealing 19 to me when I'm at 18 life.
Final round was just more bad beats. G1 I choose not to crippling chill his lone tuskguard captain on t5 figuring I'll take 3, tap his big creature, swing with my morph and then play saddlebrute. Well guess what he had in hand? nothing less than wingmate roc. And while I have a rite of the serpent in hand, you better believe he untaps t6 and plays molting snakeskin on it :).
And not to be reliant only on his mythic, G2 he plays the outlast nut of seeker of the way + tuskgaurd captain + banner + abzan battle priest + salt road patrol + armament corps. I actually hit him for 16 all-warrior damage with a rush of battle around t5 or so bringing me up to 28. I had 2 rite of the serpents in hand and 5 lands, if I topdeck a land I kill the priest, get a token and am still in good position. Nope. He swings back for 12 lifelink. I draw again, once again no land. 2 rite of serpents in hand vs a bunch of outlast ***** and get stuck on 5 lands for the gg.
Note to self: you can't play a deck with 3x rite of the serpent, 2x crippling chill 1x debilitating injury as your only removal. And you better have ways to break through durdle decks at least in your board (roar of challenge or barrage of boulders)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I just lost a game because when my opponent attacked, Modo kindly resized the screen, hiding my creature UNDER MY LANDS. I couldn't click on my creature anymore, so I couldn't block, and lost the game. I'm so pissed off right now. If Modo were a fysical object, I'd totally destroy it.
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
I lost a draft round to a ridiculous deck. I was playing Sultai splashing for Siege Rhino + Abzan Charm. Game 1 I win. Game 2 I have out Siege Mastodon, Pine Walker, Disowned Ancestor, and Archer's Parapet and have him down to 4 life, which unfortunately is no match for his Abzan Guide with Molting Snakeskin + Dragon Grip, especially when I can't draw anything but land. Game 3 I flood out super hard, and he beats me with Altar of the Brood + Bloodstained Champion, milling me out before I can draw enough useful cards.
Molting Snakeskin is one of those cards I will never play, but fully expect to lose to once or twice. I guess it's not terrible in WB Warriors to force some bad blocks. Frustrating card to play against because either you blow them out, or they have a very annoying creature to deal with for the rest of the game.
I feel like I'm playing pretty badly tonight. P1p2 I drafted a Mystic of the Hidden Way over Suspension Field. P2p1, I drafted a RG fetchland instead of an actual useful card for my deck. And I Bear Punched my unbuffed Rakshasa Deathdealer (misclicked instead of Abomination of Gudul) into a Valley Dasher.
2nd time today I played against a Mauler. Lucky me.
EDIT: Just so it doesn't seem like I'm complaining over and over again in separate posts...just lost to an aggro deck running both Abzan Charm and Pearl Lake Ancient. This set has ridiculously high variance based on how risky you are with your mana base. I keep reminding myself that I'm very slowly and quietly being rewarded for building nice consistent decks...but it still hurts when the 4 or 5-color aggro special kicks you in the teeth.
I always feel like I'm taking 1.5 steps forward and then 1 step back. I hope I'm improving as a player, but it's tough to assess the change in my own skill against the noise of normal variance.
I've started keeping an excel spreadsheet with the date, match results, and some notes on drafting or play mistakes that I can tighten up the next time. I'm hoping that helps to provide some basic factual tracking but also keeps me thinking about where to improve.
This didn't lose me a game, but it's not really relevant to any other thread and I thought it was worth sharing.
MTGO renders foil morphs as foil even when they're face down. The effect of this is that if your opponent saw the foil morph game 1, then they know what it is in games 2 and 3. (Unless you have more than one somehow.)
This didn't lose me a game, but it's not really relevant to any other thread and I thought it was worth sharing.
MTGO renders foil morphs as foil even when they're face down. The effect of this is that if your opponent saw the foil morph game 1, then they know what it is in games 2 and 3. (Unless you have more than one somehow.)
It's only a foil morph to you, your opponent sees a normal morph. At least that's what the internet told me when I googled it the first time I noticed this. It's still stupid, because now you think your opponent knows your morph, which can still influence your play (although it's obviously not as bad as them actually knowing it).
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
I don't get dropping before the last game. You've come this far...unless your deck is 39 basics and a Gurmag Swiftwing, don't you want to at least see if you can win against the other 0-2?
Yup, I similarly shake my head at the Swiss droppers. Even if your deck is garbage, if you were going to drop after 1 loss anyway, just play another type of queue where the rewards for winning are greater!
Just lost to a 5 color deck that still somehow can cast Anafenza on turn 3. Grrr.
That's the format in a nutshell. I just lost to a 4-color deck with no 2-drops at all who hit all his colors every game while I got screwed in 2 out of 3. Surprise surprise, the one game where I had my mana I crushed him.
Edit: And naturally I was his only win. I steamrolled my other two opponents. I feel like I had a pretty strong Temur Bearpunch deck.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between "usually" and "almost every time", nor do I understand the "leave the opponent no means of stopping you from doing it" part when that's the entire reason they win "usually" or "almost every time" (and you really meant to say "almost no means of stopping you from doing it" - you've already established that it's not unbeatable). What's acceptable and what isn't? What percentage of games should you win when you resolve an 8 drop finisher? 90%? 99%? 51%?
This is a common misconception about probability. Probability accounts for outliers. Yes, most people approach average luck over enough time, but not everyone. That's the entire point. Some people will luck into consistently better luck through their lives than others, even over hundreds of individual events. People, particularly card players, seem to think that if 100,000 people all play 1,000 hands, all 100,000 of them will end up pretty close to 500 / 500 good luck / bad luck hands (pretend there aren't neutral hands). This is silly. There are going to be people all across the spectrum and even possibly some extreme outliers with absurdly good or absurdly bad luck - they'll simply be distributed closer to the middle as a whole group on average. If they all play a huge amount more, their random streaks of luck become less important, but a few nights at FNM is hardly a relevant number of events.
In Game 2, he recurred it with Warden of the Eye.
There aren't enough eye rolls to express how janky this was. I'd like to repeat...he was running a spell that cost XXBBBB in the same deck that including all 5 colors and a bunch of aggro Warriors. (To answer the follow-up question, I was mana flooded and then mana screwed. And he still almost timed out.)
Variance will do what variance will do, and it can produce some crazy results. Not gonna lie though, using it with Warden of the Eye just seems rather silly. How the heck are you managing to cast that spell twice in a game of limited for reasonable value? I'd love to see his decklist just for the fun of it.
Cubetutor Link
Of course I don't know his entire deck list but it was probably 10 non-basic lands in all 5 colors, and whatever else he could find considering how many picks he spent on lands, and he played a turtle strategy. Even with all the fixing, he would only get to four-Black mana in the very late game so he was playing Empty the Pits as like a 20-drop. The deck wasn't good, any reasonable draw from my deck would have rolled over him. But I got bad draws so he was able to durdle his way to Zombie Army. I really think that was his only plan.
It's not that I think 5-color is bad. It's certainly viable. I just can't beleive Empty the Pits of all things was his only finisher. Usually when I see 5-color, I expect gold bombs. Pits is the exact opposite!
2nd round opponent is playing 5 colours... (only green card I saw was a savage punch, only blue card I think was mantis rider but who knows what else)
game 1 he goes removal, dragon style twins, butcher of the horde, removal removal removal...
game 2 he mulls to 5 plays monastary swiftspear t3 and gets crushed (who plays swiftspear in a 5c deck?)
game 3 he curves war-rade aspirant into mardu hordechief into butcher of the horde into mantis rider...
aggro 5colour.... and he curves out perfectly (okay, he didnt get t1 swiftspear i guess).
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Does it matter if it's a gold bomb or a BBBB bomb? Sure, he can't cast it until turn 20, but that's the point of a finisher in a deck like that. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it wins the game, cause that allows the rest of the deck to do the defense. I drafted a deck yesterday that had 1 Goblinslide, 1 Villainous Wealth and 2 Cranial Archive as the only "kill" conditions. The only two creatures in it were both 0/5s.
Obviously I can't tell if that guy's deck was good or bad, but I wouldn't just take your word for it to accept that it was bad. Maybe you just lost to bad luck, but there's nothing inherently wrong with a five color control deck that uses Empty the Pits as a finisher, and contains Warden of the Eye (and that's all I know about his deck now, except that it contained ten nonbasics, which is a good amount).
First opponent is just on the durdliest deck in the universe. Its only win con is archer's parapet, abzan ascendancy, and a roar of challenge. Game 1 I'm down to 3 cards when he finally hits roar (I would have died to deck death anyways... my 3 fliers were literally in the bottom 5 cards). Game 2 I board in dragon throne of tarkir and get it on a 3/4 - so board stall should go my way right? Well he has so many mardu hateblades and rotting mastodons that I still can't profitably attack for several turns even with throne equipped. I instead peck him down to 10 with watcher of the roost. And of course, the critical turn I have to choose - play sultai scavenger, then untap and do rush of battle + throne for probably-lethal, or do rush of battle now for non-lethal but probably clear up the board a bit. I play scavenger... he untaps and topdecks - you guessed it, roar of challenge dealing 19 to me when I'm at 18 life.
Final round was just more bad beats. G1 I choose not to crippling chill his lone tuskguard captain on t5 figuring I'll take 3, tap his big creature, swing with my morph and then play saddlebrute. Well guess what he had in hand? nothing less than wingmate roc. And while I have a rite of the serpent in hand, you better believe he untaps t6 and plays molting snakeskin on it :).
And not to be reliant only on his mythic, G2 he plays the outlast nut of seeker of the way + tuskgaurd captain + banner + abzan battle priest + salt road patrol + armament corps. I actually hit him for 16 all-warrior damage with a rush of battle around t5 or so bringing me up to 28. I had 2 rite of the serpents in hand and 5 lands, if I topdeck a land I kill the priest, get a token and am still in good position. Nope. He swings back for 12 lifelink. I draw again, once again no land. 2 rite of serpents in hand vs a bunch of outlast ***** and get stuck on 5 lands for the gg.
Note to self: you can't play a deck with 3x rite of the serpent, 2x crippling chill 1x debilitating injury as your only removal. And you better have ways to break through durdle decks at least in your board (roar of challenge or barrage of boulders)
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Okay, revise that to extremely badly.
2nd time today I played against a Mauler. Lucky me.
EDIT: Just so it doesn't seem like I'm complaining over and over again in separate posts...just lost to an aggro deck running both Abzan Charm and Pearl Lake Ancient. This set has ridiculously high variance based on how risky you are with your mana base. I keep reminding myself that I'm very slowly and quietly being rewarded for building nice consistent decks...but it still hurts when the 4 or 5-color aggro special kicks you in the teeth.
I've started keeping an excel spreadsheet with the date, match results, and some notes on drafting or play mistakes that I can tighten up the next time. I'm hoping that helps to provide some basic factual tracking but also keeps me thinking about where to improve.
MTGO renders foil morphs as foil even when they're face down. The effect of this is that if your opponent saw the foil morph game 1, then they know what it is in games 2 and 3. (Unless you have more than one somehow.)
It's only a foil morph to you, your opponent sees a normal morph. At least that's what the internet told me when I googled it the first time I noticed this. It's still stupid, because now you think your opponent knows your morph, which can still influence your play (although it's obviously not as bad as them actually knowing it).
That's the format in a nutshell. I just lost to a 4-color deck with no 2-drops at all who hit all his colors every game while I got screwed in 2 out of 3. Surprise surprise, the one game where I had my mana I crushed him.
Edit: And naturally I was his only win. I steamrolled my other two opponents. I feel like I had a pretty strong Temur Bearpunch deck.