I don't like Master the Way at all. Sorry. It's 5 mana kill a morph essentially. I'd much rather run a burn spell that can kill something relevant and doesn't cantrip. Being enemy colors is fine since it leaves us more open, but it's still limiting.
I'd go Sultai Scavenger over Mardu Warshrieker over Sultai Flayer.
Evasion is quite good in this set and it's very likely, even without delve, you'll get a very well costed 3/3 flyer out of that deal. I really love Mardu warshrieker, but I'm avoiding mardu since I believe it will be a very popular early strategy.
I can't resist chiming in here, since Time Spiral was "my" format: Coal Stoker was okay-ish, but not particularly impressive back then, since mana burn was a thing and quite frequently you just had to take three. Later though, without damage on the stack, it got quite good. You often paired red with blue, which had a lot of morphs, and you also had storm. He was really good with Empty the Warrens and Grapeshot. Also, there were more cards with activated abilities (like Basalt Gargoyle and Flowstone Channeler) that you could activate while also playing Coal Stoker on the same turn.
Point being: while there were perhaps fewer morphs in Time Spiral block, there were arguably more other applications for the card. And, not to mention, creatures were a little smaller in general then.
Now carry on
Don't forget the herd gnarr deck. turn 5, unsuspend halbradier -> coal stoker -> empty the warrens, swing for the damages.
coal stoker wasn't a super high pick, but he was a role player. but time spiral had a very strange tempo. normally not a lot happened for the first 5, 6 turns (aside from mono-white), then big creatures started coming into play for mana you spent ages ago. the format was the closest to cube wizards has made outside of a 'masters' set. synergy just trumped tempo. as was stated, time spiral was not a morph set. it just happened to have a few morphs. khans appears much more tempo oriented, with hitting 3 on turn 3, and 5 mana on turn 5 being much more important than TS. warshrieker just seems to do what an aggro deck would want to be doing. it also offers mana fixing without being an ETB tapped land.
Not sure that's really fair. Do you have some experience drafting on Cockatrice?
I have drafted on cockatrice a time or three. Not sure why that matters?
Well, it seemed like you were saying Cockatrice drafters were bad. I do apologize if that was not what you meant.
Upon rereading, I noticed Phyrre mentioned Warshrieker enabling a 7-mana turn 4 before. That sounds nice, but what you're really doing is playing a Hill Giant and a morphed creature you could have played anyway (IF you enabled raid and IF you had a morphed creature in hand), which means you basically got a 3/3 for free on turn 4 for your troubles. Which is nice, and it will happen a fair amount of the time, but as I said, that's not really what Mardu wants to be doing. From what I've seen, they either win in the air or with an army of tokens helped by Trumpet Blast or Rush of Battle. Midrange creatures without evasion are pretty low on their list of priorities.
Mark your pick by either bolding it or putting it in Quote tags. If you want to change your vote, either edit your previous post or strike it through ([s][/s]) as you post your new pick.
Next pick will be tomorrow (unless there is clear consensus, in which case I might post the next pick earlier). Have fun!
So when do we admit none of us has any idea what to pick out of this pack because there's no obvious bomb, the set is extremely complicated, and we haven't had enough time with it yet to understand archetypes and how to evaluate 4 or 5 cards of roughly equal power level in a vacuum.
Not happy with this pack at all, and I hate our P1P1, but may as well go with it and draft the warden of the eye here. Bell strike and swift kick are also possibilities but I prefer value town hill giant. Also note Scavenger #2 in the pack.
So when do we admit none of us has any idea what to pick out of this pack because there's no obvious bomb, the set is extremely complicated, and we haven't had enough time with it yet to understand archetypes and how to evaluate 4 or 5 cards of roughly equal power level in a vacuum.
MTGS posters admitting they have no idea what's going on? NEVER!!!
More seriously, for a pack with a number of mid-level cards and in such a new format, which card you pick will probably largely depend on your personal play style and preference for tempo vs CA, small flyer vs solid ground pounder, etc. rather than any community consensus on which is the better card.
Well, obviously the guy to our left did not like picking three-colors cards either. To me, both swift kick and singing bell strike are sub-par removal. The bell is good in the early game but becomes useless in the mid-late game. It also opens you to untap tricks, like dragonboon scale, which is both a common and extremely playable. I'd actually think dragon grip better in the right deck.
Unless we want to jump into sultai, which is a possibility given we're being passed a scavenger, I think the pack is clearly pointing toward Jeskai or Temur. I'd say the pick is between snowhorn rider, a very good morph which hits all the right note: colors, morph, size and cost to unmorph and a bit of evasion. The only other possible pick in my view is warden of the eye. The body is weak in the format for the price, but I've seen it be quite annoying when it returns removal or the card that double-bounces.
Sometimes I wish we could split our vote to give half a point to two picks.
For now, I'll pick warden of the eye to make Hammer happy, but I may switch my vote later.
Hrm... I think I'll go with Warden of the Eye. Dragon Grip looks great too, if only because first strike is powerful in this format, and it can be used as pseudo removal if you have a 4 power creature in play. But Warden is less likely to be corner case and grants some card advantage; I just wish he was 3/4.
There are three cards I like out of this pack that go with our first pick: Snowhorn Rider, Singing Bell Strike, and Warden of the Eye. I actually like the Warden the least of these, because despite having the best synergy with our first pick it pigeonholes us the most not only into a color combination but also into prioritizing non-creature spells. Snowhorn rider is strong but has the least synergy with our first pick and also locks us into a color combination. We already have an expensive late game spell, so I like picking up Singing Bell Strike here for some cheap, early action, while still keeping us open for a tempo-ish Temur build or a spell slinger Jeskai deck.
So when do we admit none of us has any idea what to pick out of this pack because there's no obvious bomb, the set is extremely complicated, and we haven't had enough time with it yet to understand archetypes and how to evaluate 4 or 5 cards of roughly equal power level in a vacuum.
Agreed! We can act like we are arguing from a place of knowing, but we are all still figuring this out.
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I think this pack is a pretty easy Warden of the Eye. That is a 3 colour card I would consider first picking, mostly due to play style. I loved Izzet Chronarch.
My 2nd choice out of the previous pack was Scavenger, so another one of those would be nice, but I am much happier getting to take the Warden.
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Top MTGO Limited Rating: 1968
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
Edit: When I wrote this, I didn't realize Mentor has an off-color activation cost. So yeah, he's not really in contention here.
My usual strategy in Pack 1 is to always pick the strongest card in every pack, considering my current card pool for tie-breakers.
For me it's between Singing Bell Strike and Bloodfire Mentor. Both help us stay open by not spreading our colors. Mentor is clearly a long-game plan: clog the ground, then block and loot. (I love it, and I can't wait to draft the Bloodfire Mentor/Archer's Parapet deck.) I think it may have more of a home in Temur than in Jeskai, since the latter doesn't seem like it wants to be blocking a lot. But maybe there's a strategy for it where it builds up and wins with one big swing where Mentor would be a role-player.
But Singing Bell Strike serves a role in both the aggressive and the defensive deck, so it gets my pick here. This pack's better than the last one, so Mentor might even wheel... well, I can dream.
(As for the other cards, I see Warden of the Eye and Kheru Lich Lord as rewards for being in those colors, not as reasons to go into them, if you see what I mean. Early reports indicate that Snowhorn Rider is very powerful, but I'm not willing to second pick it yet. Disdainful Stroke is a good counterspell, and I want to pick one up later, but not now. Scavenger would be fine, but it's not obviously better than Strike or Mentor and spreads our colors into a shard.)
Has Singing Bell Strike been that good for people? This is an open-mana format, and I've untapped my stuff a number of times while keeping up mana for a flip or trick. In a dedicated tempo deck, I can see it, but we just (sadly) took a 5 mana, sorcery speed removal.
I'm going to pretend we didn't do that, so I'll again vote for Sultai Scavenger.
PS... did everyone who voted for Master the Way think it was instant speed? I really don't understand how half of Think Twice and Shock is worth 5 mana in your main phase.
I think Warden of the Eye is a terrible choice. I feel like a broken record after my argument against Master The Way but in Khans, 5 mana = flip my big Morph for value. I have greatly reduced interest in non-Morphs that cost 5. (Similarly I like spells that cost 2 or 4 and don't get in the way of the Morph strategy.)
If we're taking a gold card, isn't Snowhorn Rider a lot better than Warden anyway?
But I wouldn't take a gold card because none of these are strong signals and we don't have fixing. I would narrow it down to Dragon Grip vs. Singing Bell Strike and decide that since my first pick was a very slow value card, I'd rather have the Singing Bell Strike to shut down early tempo and let me get to the late game intact.
Has Singing Bell Strike been that good for people? This is an open-mana format, and I've untapped my stuff a number of times while keeping up mana for a flip or trick. In a dedicated tempo deck, I can see it, but we just (sadly) took a 5 mana, sorcery speed removal.
I played 3 in a Jeskai sealed deck and it was pretty much the MVP. Always what I wanted to draw. I was also running a couple of Crippling Chill and Winterflame, which made paying to untap pretty much game over if I had them in hand.
Played against it in draft and it did just as well against me.
I'll vote for Singing Bell Strike. I think the Warden is ok but may be slower than I want for draft. And it's hard to say right now how many good targets we'll have for it. I think if pressed I would take Sultai Scavengers and Snowhorn Rider over it right now, but I'll go with the early game removal since it's there.
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I'd go Sultai Scavenger over Mardu Warshrieker over Sultai Flayer.
Evasion is quite good in this set and it's very likely, even without delve, you'll get a very well costed 3/3 flyer out of that deal. I really love Mardu warshrieker, but I'm avoiding mardu since I believe it will be a very popular early strategy.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
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Don't forget the herd gnarr deck. turn 5, unsuspend halbradier -> coal stoker -> empty the warrens, swing for the damages.
coal stoker wasn't a super high pick, but he was a role player. but time spiral had a very strange tempo. normally not a lot happened for the first 5, 6 turns (aside from mono-white), then big creatures started coming into play for mana you spent ages ago. the format was the closest to cube wizards has made outside of a 'masters' set. synergy just trumped tempo. as was stated, time spiral was not a morph set. it just happened to have a few morphs. khans appears much more tempo oriented, with hitting 3 on turn 3, and 5 mana on turn 5 being much more important than TS. warshrieker just seems to do what an aggro deck would want to be doing. it also offers mana fixing without being an ETB tapped land.
Well, it seemed like you were saying Cockatrice drafters were bad. I do apologize if that was not what you meant.
Upon rereading, I noticed Phyrre mentioned Warshrieker enabling a 7-mana turn 4 before. That sounds nice, but what you're really doing is playing a Hill Giant and a morphed creature you could have played anyway (IF you enabled raid and IF you had a morphed creature in hand), which means you basically got a 3/3 for free on turn 4 for your troubles. Which is nice, and it will happen a fair amount of the time, but as I said, that's not really what Mardu wants to be doing. From what I've seen, they either win in the air or with an army of tokens helped by Trumpet Blast or Rush of Battle. Midrange creatures without evasion are pretty low on their list of priorities.
Master the Way - 8
Watcher of the Roost - 8
Sultai Flayer - 5
Abzan Guide - 4
Mardu Warshrieker - 4
Sultai Scavenger - 4
P1P2 is up, please resume discussions there.
P1P1 sure was interesting. Final tally:
Master the Way - 8 - wins tiebreaker by two votes
Watcher of the Roost - 8
Sultai Flayer - 6
Abzan Guide - 4
Mardu Warshrieker - 4
Sultai Scavenger - 4
If you did not bold your pick or put it in quote tags, I did not count it! I suspect that at least a couple of you forgot to do this.
P1P2:
Mark your pick by either bolding it or putting it in Quote tags. If you want to change your vote, either edit your previous post or
strike it through([s][/s]) as you post your new pick.Next pick will be tomorrow (unless there is clear consensus, in which case I might post the next pick earlier). Have fun!
MTGS posters admitting they have no idea what's going on? NEVER!!!
More seriously, for a pack with a number of mid-level cards and in such a new format, which card you pick will probably largely depend on your personal play style and preference for tempo vs CA, small flyer vs solid ground pounder, etc. rather than any community consensus on which is the better card.
Unless we want to jump into sultai, which is a possibility given we're being passed a scavenger, I think the pack is clearly pointing toward Jeskai or Temur. I'd say the pick is between snowhorn rider, a very good morph which hits all the right note: colors, morph, size and cost to unmorph and a bit of evasion. The only other possible pick in my view is warden of the eye. The body is weak in the format for the price, but I've seen it be quite annoying when it returns removal or the card that double-bounces.
Sometimes I wish we could split our vote to give half a point to two picks.
For now, I'll pick warden of the eye to make Hammer happy, but I may switch my vote later.
Agreed! We can act like we are arguing from a place of knowing, but we are all still figuring this out.
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
(oh man coulda had two scavengers)
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Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
My 2nd choice out of the previous pack was Scavenger, so another one of those would be nice, but I am much happier getting to take the Warden.
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
My usual strategy in Pack 1 is to always pick the strongest card in every pack, considering my current card pool for tie-breakers.
For me it's between Singing Bell Strike and Bloodfire Mentor. Both help us stay open by not spreading our colors. Mentor is clearly a long-game plan: clog the ground, then block and loot. (I love it, and I can't wait to draft the Bloodfire Mentor/Archer's Parapet deck.) I think it may have more of a home in Temur than in Jeskai, since the latter doesn't seem like it wants to be blocking a lot. But maybe there's a strategy for it where it builds up and wins with one big swing where Mentor would be a role-player.
But Singing Bell Strike serves a role in both the aggressive and the defensive deck, so it gets my pick here. This pack's better than the last one, so Mentor might even wheel... well, I can dream.
(As for the other cards, I see Warden of the Eye and Kheru Lich Lord as rewards for being in those colors, not as reasons to go into them, if you see what I mean. Early reports indicate that Snowhorn Rider is very powerful, but I'm not willing to second pick it yet. Disdainful Stroke is a good counterspell, and I want to pick one up later, but not now. Scavenger would be fine, but it's not obviously better than Strike or Mentor and spreads our colors into a shard.)
Warden of the Eye is not a Hill Giant.
Warden of the Eye. It's a three-color five-drop, but I'm not a believer in Bell Strike, and there's not much else to work with here.EDIT: Changing vote
I'm going to pretend we didn't do that, so I'll again vote for Sultai Scavenger.
PS... did everyone who voted for Master the Way think it was instant speed? I really don't understand how half of Think Twice and Shock is worth 5 mana in your main phase.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
From a combat perspective, it certainly is.
If we're taking a gold card, isn't Snowhorn Rider a lot better than Warden anyway?
But I wouldn't take a gold card because none of these are strong signals and we don't have fixing. I would narrow it down to Dragon Grip vs. Singing Bell Strike and decide that since my first pick was a very slow value card, I'd rather have the Singing Bell Strike to shut down early tempo and let me get to the late game intact.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU