Would've had the Black Delve flier (P1P1) + this guy, so I would head off to the 'trainwreck' draft department and rare draft!
I got wrecked by this guy, there's lots of good removal and Sultai is a good one to draft. Maybe I'm just being daft and contrarian, but, I seriously take this guy. (I would never play Master in my deck, I just don't see it happening, sorry!).
/or bad drafter is bad
(Edit; Also because it's a community draft, I like to listen to people's point of view, but I will draft my own deck and compare it to the community one afterwards).
I like it, but it's veeeeery slow, and you have to pay before you draw.
Meh, another uninteresting pack. For me, Sultai Scavenger seems like the most obvious pick by far. It's quite powerful and color requirements are easy (I'm not married to our p1p1).
Kheru Lich Lord probably wants to live in a dedicated delve deck, but otherwise he's an expensive 4/4. Sultai Scavenger seems very good (even if he doesn't match up well color-wise with our first pick). Dragon Grip seems like a very good combat trick or tempo card, or sometimes both. I'm sure Singing Bell Strike is good, but it's good in an aggressive or tempo strategy. It's bad if we go controlling, so picking it here is just as restrictive as picking a three color card, in my opinion. I like Snowhorn Rider.
All that being said, I think that Warden of the Eye is the strongest card here. Getting two early picks that create card advantage seems like a place I want to be. Go us!
I think Warden of the Eye is a terrible choice. I feel like a broken record after my argument against Master The Way but in Khans, 5 mana = flip my big Morph for value. I have greatly reduced interest in non-Morphs that cost 5. (Similarly I like spells that cost 2 or 4 and don't get in the way of the Morph strategy.)
If we're taking a gold card, isn't Snowhorn Rider a lot better than Warden anyway?
But I wouldn't take a gold card because none of these are strong signals and we don't have fixing. I would narrow it down to Dragon Grip vs. Singing Bell Strike and decide that since my first pick was a very slow value card, I'd rather have the Singing Bell Strike to shut down early tempo and let me get to the late game intact.
Since we lock in blue and red, Warden of the Eye would be a logical choice, but I think Warden of the Eye has more chance wheeling back to us than Singing Bell Strike, and this format seems fast so Singing Bell Strike for my vote.
I find it sad that people are valuing a bad arrest above threats. If you play bell on my early creature, I'll just keep playing my spells are trying to curve out normally and once I have mostly emptied my hands, it will be about the time I have the mana to pay for the bell.
My experience at the pre-release also align with what Than said: it's not really important to spend your 5th turn morphing something. You just open yourself to a tempo play like a bounce spell.
And about being too early to choose a clan: the guy passing to us took an uncommon and passed the warden, grip and bell. I think there's good chance he's not too deep into jeskai?
PS: also, about the grip, I don't like to rely on cards that open me for a 2-for-1. That's a problem with grip, and with most fight-based removal.
I would just like to point out that as much as I love tempo based Jeskai, Jeskai control can definitely work. You play 0/5 looters and 0/5 flying morphs and just 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 people all day long with Master the Way, Warden of the Eye, Treasure Cruise and Weave Fate. Its actually really fun if you're able to get the critical volume of removal, draw and walls to make it work. It wants a lot of different cards than tempo Jeskai though; Singing Bell Strike is amazing for tempo and awful for control, while Warden is an awesome control card and is ok for tempo. The choice here starts to push a little towards what we want the deck to do, although its clearly still early enough to change.
Snowhorn rider is also good, but I like control decks. I vote Warden of the Eye.
I find it sad that people are valuing a bad arrest above threats. If you play bell on my early creature, I'll just keep playing my spells are trying to curve out normally and once I have mostly emptied my hands, it will be about the time I have the mana to pay for the bell.
But isn't that just equivalent to saying "If you play bell on my early creature, you'll have killed it for 2 mana until such time as it's almost certainly irrelevant"? I agree with what you're saying, and in fact it's been my experience, but I don't know why I should consider that a bad outcome.
There's a lot of space below Arrest to allow for a bad Arrest to be pretty good. At the start I was really unsure of how to rate Singing Bell Strike, and was a little skeptical that it would turn out to be good, but at this point I've been thoroughly convinced. It's been a pretty consistent beating every time it's been played against me.
I don't have any experience with the format, but is the pseudo-vigilance ability of Singing Bell Strike ever relevant? If so, does that make it better or worse?
My pick is Sulti Scanvenger. The lord is tempting, and a solid card in the right deck, but not the clear pick now.
Played with and against Singing Bell Strike multiple times. Its not as good as everyone feels. Usually is a 23rd card in most blue decks. The format is slow, usually bell strike is normally a non issue for what you use it on.
I've had Singing Bell Strike cast against me on multiple occasions, and I was unimpressed by the card each time. I think the card is really sweet in a tempo deck, however, I think it's too early to commit to a deck type for a mediocre common at this point.
I also strongly disagree with our first pick. I don't think you can afford to draw a 5 mana do nothing card in the late game in this format, because there is a lot to do with your mana even at very late turns.
I think the strongest card here is Snowhorn Rider.
Mark your pick by either bolding it or putting it in Quote tags. If you want to change your vote, either edit your previous post or bold it & strike it through ([s][/s]) as you post your new pick.
Next pick will be tomorrow (unless there is clear consensus, in which case I might post the next pick earlier). Have fun!
I like the scaldkin here, but bloodfire expert and feat of resistance are also solid. The guy to our left will be solidly into Mardu after he gets the ponyback gift from us.
Although Scaldkin is on color and probably an ok pick, I think both Mer-Ek Nightblade and Feat of Resistance are more tempting. In the end I favor the active over the reactive card.
I'd probably go Hooting Mandrills. Let's us angle toward Temur, or audible toward Sultai and drop Master the Way.
This is why first-pick gold cards are dangerous if they're not bombs. You really want flexibility early. The way this set is designed, you're just not going to be able to draft whatever Clan you want from pick one. There are a ton of mediocre playables...you have to leave yourself open to capture the good stuff.
My problems with Nightblade are 1) we've passed Sultai Scavengers, meaning Black is unlikely to be plentiful in Pack 2 and 2) I don't like the idea of my first 3 picks not fitting into any one Clan together.
EDIT: Scaldkin is just a bad card. In a set full of cards that add value by giving you options, Scaldkin gives you nothing but terrible options. Overpriced Wind Drake and Overpriced Shock with no surprise value does not add up to a real card.
My problems with Nightblade are 1) we've passed Sultai Scavengers, meaning Black is unlikely to be plentiful in Pack 2 and 2) I don't like the idea of my first 3 picks not fitting into any one Clan together.
Leaving aside the fact that getting 2 Scavengers this early is in no way a sign that black is open, this is not really a set in which you can reliably hope to influence the drafters you're passing to. Reading signals is way more important than sending them.
Scaldkin is just filler in this format. Wind Drake for 4 and a mediocre removal spell don't add up to a good card. Outburst is deceptively good since it's a creature that triggers Prowess, Goblinslide and Quiet Contemplation, which makes it a good addition to any UR decks. Nightblade is good, but not good enough to make me want start drafting Black.
Mer-Ek Nightblade - A good defensive pick, and strong if we end up in Mardu or Abzan. Bloodfire Experts would be my second pick, as they're in color and synergizes with spell-centric Jeskai well.
I think 3rd pick is where I want to start taking fixing, but Blossoming Sands is ally colors so ... Mer-Ek Nightblade has the highest power level in the pack, so I'm picking that and hoping to wheel Feat of Resistance, which I think will be a premium combat trick.
With regards to Phyrre's comments, I think it's wrong to worry about sending signals. If we don't get black pack 2, we have two other colors to fill in, and we can cut black the rest of pack 1 and all of pack 3. Also, I don't think 2 Scavengers are enough to put Leftie into black.
Again, I disagree, Phyrre. This particular pack only meshes well with the preceding ones if we had went sultai by taking both scavengers (or lich lord, whatever). This pack has many commons and uncommons angling toward Mardu. Which pick people were advocating in the preceding pack that would have meshed with Mardu exactly? (Well, I guess the scavengers...) The two preceding drafters took a rare and an uncommon from this pack. The fact is, outside of the mandrill or going Mardu, this pack is pretty bad. Also, taking gold cards in early picks doesn't prevent us from capturing the good stuff. We just have to be willing to abandon our early picks. It's more about whether you desire consistency of results over many drafts (picking non-gold cards, staying open) vs accepting more variance and having some drafts go very well because you took the best early cards even if they're gold, and some less well because you have to abandon early picks.
Second, I think our current first two picks do not mesh well together as a deck strategy, even though they're in the same color. Bell wants atempo deck, but the removal we first-picked is expensive and wanted a more controlling deck. Yes, I think bell over warden was a mistake.
Now we have to make do. I think the only sensible picks are:
Scalding - stay Jeskai, it flies, can kill a morph. Not great.
Bloodfire expert - it's a early drop to trade with morph, I guess.
Mandrills - solid card, but green.
I think the only defensible choice here is Hooting Mandrills. It's pretty much the best card left. (Mer-Ek could be okay in an abzan deck, but we're far from that deck and it's not the best abzan outlasters anyway.) It even makes our two earlier pick relevant in Temur. If the sultai cards keep flowing, we should be able to audible into that and try to cut off the guy on our left so that he gets the message and gets out off sultai even though we passed a few good things.
I like Ponyback, Feat of Resistance, Nightblade, Bloodfire Expert and Hooting Mandrils. I think Ponyback is a little better than the others, but Bloodfire is perfect for a tempo beatdown plan and a pretty reasonable card, so I would take it. Ideally, I want to be doing something like Seeker of the Way/Jeskai Elder->Bloodfire Expert then Winterflame/Crippling Chill/Force Away/Singing Bell Strike until victory.
Bloodfire Expert
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I like it, but it's veeeeery slow, and you have to pay before you draw.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
All that being said, I think that Warden of the Eye is the strongest card here. Getting two early picks that create card advantage seems like a place I want to be. Go us!
Abzan: 0
Jeskai: 1
Sultai: 0
Mardu: 0
Temur: 1
100% agree with everything.
Singing Bell Strike
My experience at the pre-release also align with what Than said: it's not really important to spend your 5th turn morphing something. You just open yourself to a tempo play like a bounce spell.
And about being too early to choose a clan: the guy passing to us took an uncommon and passed the warden, grip and bell. I think there's good chance he's not too deep into jeskai?
PS: also, about the grip, I don't like to rely on cards that open me for a 2-for-1. That's a problem with grip, and with most fight-based removal.
Snowhorn rider is also good, but I like control decks. I vote Warden of the Eye.
There's a lot of space below Arrest to allow for a bad Arrest to be pretty good. At the start I was really unsure of how to rate Singing Bell Strike, and was a little skeptical that it would turn out to be good, but at this point I've been thoroughly convinced. It's been a pretty consistent beating every time it's been played against me.
Played with and against Singing Bell Strike multiple times. Its not as good as everyone feels. Usually is a 23rd card in most blue decks. The format is slow, usually bell strike is normally a non issue for what you use it on.
I also strongly disagree with our first pick. I don't think you can afford to draw a 5 mana do nothing card in the late game in this format, because there is a lot to do with your mana even at very late turns.
I think the strongest card here is Snowhorn Rider.
P1P3 is up, please resume discussion there.
P1P2 final tally:
Singing Bell Strike - 16
Warden of the Eye - 10
Sultai Scavenger - 2
Kheru Lich Lord - 2
Snowhorn Rider - 1
If you did not bold your pick or put it in quote tags, I did not count it! I suspect that at least a couple of you forgot to do this.
P1P3:
Mark your pick by either bolding it or putting it in Quote tags. If you want to change your vote, either edit your previous post or bold it &
strike it through([s][/s]) as you post your new pick.Next pick will be tomorrow (unless there is clear consensus, in which case I might post the next pick earlier). Have fun!
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
This is why first-pick gold cards are dangerous if they're not bombs. You really want flexibility early. The way this set is designed, you're just not going to be able to draft whatever Clan you want from pick one. There are a ton of mediocre playables...you have to leave yourself open to capture the good stuff.
My problems with Nightblade are 1) we've passed Sultai Scavengers, meaning Black is unlikely to be plentiful in Pack 2 and 2) I don't like the idea of my first 3 picks not fitting into any one Clan together.
EDIT: Scaldkin is just a bad card. In a set full of cards that add value by giving you options, Scaldkin gives you nothing but terrible options. Overpriced Wind Drake and Overpriced Shock with no surprise value does not add up to a real card.
Leaving aside the fact that getting 2 Scavengers this early is in no way a sign that black is open, this is not really a set in which you can reliably hope to influence the drafters you're passing to. Reading signals is way more important than sending them.
Scaldkin is just filler in this format. Wind Drake for 4 and a mediocre removal spell don't add up to a good card. Outburst is deceptively good since it's a creature that triggers Prowess, Goblinslide and Quiet Contemplation, which makes it a good addition to any UR decks. Nightblade is good, but not good enough to make me want start drafting Black.
With regards to Phyrre's comments, I think it's wrong to worry about sending signals. If we don't get black pack 2, we have two other colors to fill in, and we can cut black the rest of pack 1 and all of pack 3. Also, I don't think 2 Scavengers are enough to put Leftie into black.
Second, I think our current first two picks do not mesh well together as a deck strategy, even though they're in the same color. Bell wants atempo deck, but the removal we first-picked is expensive and wanted a more controlling deck. Yes, I think bell over warden was a mistake.
Now we have to make do. I think the only sensible picks are:
Scalding - stay Jeskai, it flies, can kill a morph. Not great.
Bloodfire expert - it's a early drop to trade with morph, I guess.
Mandrills - solid card, but green.
I think the only defensible choice here is Hooting Mandrills. It's pretty much the best card left. (Mer-Ek could be okay in an abzan deck, but we're far from that deck and it's not the best abzan outlasters anyway.) It even makes our two earlier pick relevant in Temur. If the sultai cards keep flowing, we should be able to audible into that and try to cut off the guy on our left so that he gets the message and gets out off sultai even though we passed a few good things.
Bloodfire Expert