Vial is unexciting, but I doubt many decks are going to be cutting it (at least the first copy). It's colorless, and the fact that it can be broken up into two payments ia a big deal, especially since you can drop it on a mostly empty spot on the curve.
Breaking it up into two payments isn't a great bonus when the card already costs four times what you'd want it to and twice what should be the limit of what you pay for the effect. I'm not sure why you think 2 is going to be a mostly empty spot on the curve - this isn't KTK. And it's on-board, which is a neat additional downside. It's a lot worse than unexciting.
Because I'm guessing two drops aren't crazy important, since this format is all about giant dragons, and Wizards screwed the pooch really, erally badly if this is a curve out two drop three drop four drop format.
The bears in the format tend to be unexciting, and goblin pikers look like they'll be terrible with the amount of 1/xs and random ways to get value off them.
Even in a format with giant dragons, 2-drops can be of great importance. Instead of dropping bears, a dragon deck wants to drop x/3s and x/4s to slow the game down. Everyone will still have plays on turn 3 and 4 due to morph. No matter if you're aggro or control, you'd still want to get ahead of the curve by dropping a body on turn 2. Also, with the lack of CIPT gainlands and tri-lands, everyone's mana is going to be a little faster and there'll be less "turn 1 tapland, turn 2 tapland" going on.
There is enough strong 2/2s as well as X/1s and x/1 deathtouchers that I don't mind a nice way to get rid of them. I think this will be more playable than people here think.
One thing we're missing from this thread is the uncolored commons. How playable do you think they are? The removal in this set is pretty bad so I can see Vial of Dragonfire being solid.
Yeah, I thought about doing it but they were all so bad. vial of dragonfire is the most playable of them and there's already been some discussion about them. I'll put them in the OP.
Edit: done. The next thing is going to be threading the uncommons in there as well.
One thing we're missing from this thread is the uncolored commons. How playable do you think they are? The removal in this set is pretty bad so I can see Vial of Dragonfire being solid.
Yeah, I thought about doing it but they were all so bad. vial of dragonfire is the most playable of them and there's already been some discussion about them. I'll put them in the OP.
Edit: done. The next thing is going to be threading the uncommons in there as well.
Can't wait for the uncommons, really. Really curious what public opinion on Deadly Wanderings is this time around.
Breaking it up into two payments isn't a great bonus when the card already costs four times what you'd want it to and twice what should be the limit of what you pay for the effect. I'm not sure why you think 2 is going to be a mostly empty spot on the curve - this isn't KTK. And it's on-board, which is a neat additional downside. It's a lot worse than unexciting.
You're exactly right. Nobody will play this card and if they do they'll make the mistake only a few times before they realize it. It'll turn into like Lens of Clarity (okay that might be an exaggeration).
Some decks will want to go 2 drop, 3 drop, 4 drop, Taigam's Strike or something to that effect. The 2 drop will be there to get in some early damage and to be a chump blocker later when there is a damage race.
I think Deadly Wanderings will be good to maybe okay, since I my mind it's not as good as Homicidal Seclusion. The casting cost is harder being double BB while you lose a 1 power and 1 toughness. Plus I think Homicidal Seclusion being in Avacyn Restored made it even better? The creature and removal quality was low and it had the loner theme (Demonic Taskmaster and Fettergeist).
One thing we're missing from this thread is the uncolored commons. How playable do you think they are? The removal in this set is pretty bad so I can see Vial of Dragonfire being solid.
Yeah, I thought about doing it but they were all so bad. vial of dragonfire is the most playable of them and there's already been some discussion about them. I'll put them in the OP.
Edit: done. The next thing is going to be threading the uncommons in there as well.
Can't wait for the uncommons, really. Really curious what public opinion on Deadly Wanderings is this time around.
Just done the uncommons. But I can't change the thread title.
For white, I think I'd rather take Pacifism over Silkwrap. Both are going to be solid and I understand that this set is going to have exploit and formidable which might decrease its value slightly. However, even with these drawbacks, I think it's still better because of the flexibility being able to target creatures that silkwrap cannot. The only other thing I can see that might be really off is Strongarm Monk. I think that should be rated higher than the 1.8 you give. It's definitely average or even closer to above average. I think a Hill Giant with upside will be better than average most of the time. I know we lose a lot of token makers (Take Up Arms, Hordeling Outburst, Ponyback Brigade, etc), but I think it will still make blocks a little more challenging.
For black, I think Ukud Cobra will be way better than the 1.8 (which is slightly below average by your standards). The thing only costs 4 and it blocks anything for days. I think Deadly Wanderings will be good, but I'm not so sure 3.4 good. Yes Homicidal Seclusion was a bomb but I think the decrease in both power and toughness and harder casting cost will make this enchantment feel "normal", I wonder if they made this into a trap card cause a lot of us knew how good seclusion was in Avacyn Restored.
I have to second what CompulsiveResearch stated about Pacifism being a better pick than Silkwrap. If they end up exploiting their biggest threat, that's fine with me.
Also, Strongarm Monk is, to me as well, at least average or slightly better. It at least should beat out Echoes of the Kin Tree, to which you gave the same rating : I mean, slow, untargettable inevitability can and will win games, but if the format ends up even average fast, it's going to be a dead card more often than not.
If it weren't for Rakshasa Gravecaller, Ukud Cobra might have been my favorite uncommon of the set. It dodges quite a few nice removal spells of the format (Flatten, Silkwrap, Pyrotechnics, to name a few) and holds the ground superbly. It also synergizes with toughness matters effects, prevalent both in FRF and DTK. Lovely piece of cardboard.
Kolaghan Forerunners is at least average. It should pretty much never be alone when attacking (you did dash something before, right?) and as such is almost minimally a 2/3 trample for 3, with dash - and that is, to me, the worst case scenario. It should be easy to at least manage to keep it a 3/3, in which case it's above curve for red.
I'd argue that Gate Smasher is more playable than your rating indicates, but yeah, it only goes from unplayable to decent in the right decks. It's a tremendous stall breaker for high toughness, grindy decks, though.
Thanks guys. I've taken your feedback and incorporated it, although I think Gate Smasher is correct, it's down with Negate where *sometimes* you'll md it but more often than not it will sit in the sb.
Oh I agree that it's correct - it's never something you'd happily pick. It's just nice that it exists, because it's the kind of card that wheels easily, so decks who want one will get one easily
I think Tormenting Voice ought to be ranked higher. On T2, it filters. Late game, it turns useless land topdecks into cards. Even in the unideal turns like T3-T4, it helps look for mana or for answers when you're stuck. It also has some utility such as setting up delve cards, Fearsome Awakening, Kolaghan's Command, Dutiful Attendant, and Swift Warkite. This is a card that rarely feels bad to play and can sometimes even forward your gameplan, so it should be at least average, no?
I think Tormenting Voice ought to be ranked higher. On T2, it filters. Late game, it turns useless land topdecks into cards. Even in the unideal turns like T3-T4, it helps look for mana or for answers when you're stuck. It also has some utility such as setting up delve cards, Fearsome Awakening, Kolaghan's Command, Dutiful Attendant, and Swift Warkite. This is a card that rarely feels bad to play and can sometimes even forward your gameplan, so it should be at least average, no?
We've seen it before in a more synergystic set. I was higher on it then than most, but I was wrong. You're spending 2 mana to turn two cards into two cards and not impact the board. That's just not worth it.
I definitely agree with Shinquickman. The card draw in this format is worse than it was in FKK. (lose treasure cruise, bitter and weave fate) and replaced with some pretty poor draw spells. Tormenting is much better than a 1.3. LSV in his review today gave it a 3 and its a good filtering effect, especially for its color. I'll always want to play one in a base red deck.
Because while it's a great wall, it also isn't a big part of winning the game. I ranked it slightly below Acid-Spewer Dragon, although possibly both are too low. It's probably better than Shambling Goblin though (although maybe not, since I ranked it as highly as I did because of exploit).
Ukud Cobra is trumped by Butcher's Glee, a card which I rank lower than the snake. There are just a bunch of ways to deal with a 2/5.
Shambling goblin is barely playable. I think you're falling a bit into how cards synergise rather than just taking at face value how good cards are in a vacuum. Even if you exploit goblin there are a ton of decks that the effect will do nothing against. It is also a horrible late game draw. Cobra trades for anything and can get through for damage. Grade cards a bit more on just how they stand on their own, not if you draw them in the perfect order. (The green vigilance enchant you have rated too high as well)
I think Tormenting Voice ought to be ranked higher. On T2, it filters. Late game, it turns useless land topdecks into cards. Even in the unideal turns like T3-T4, it helps look for mana or for answers when you're stuck. It also has some utility such as setting up delve cards, Fearsome Awakening, Kolaghan's Command, Dutiful Attendant, and Swift Warkite. This is a card that rarely feels bad to play and can sometimes even forward your gameplan, so it should be at least average, no?
We've seen it before in a more synergystic set. I was higher on it then than most, but I was wrong. You're spending 2 mana to turn two cards into two cards and not impact the board. That's just not worth it.
I think DKT will be different enough from KTK in a way that this card won't play as tamely as it did before. With the reliance on taplands gone, mana will be more free to use than before. For midrange and slower decks, early turns won't just be used putting in a bunch of taplands anymore; they now have plays they can do on T2. For aggro decks, those awkward T4 plays where you just play a tapland and a 3-drop are gone too. In this case Tormenting Voice gives both these decks something on which to pitch their open mana. Aggro decks get to pair it with a 1, 2, or 3-drop in the midgame, slower decks get to dig for answers and lands on a turn that would otherwise be draw-pass, and both decks benefit on the lategame from pitching excessive lands or cards that don't help the boardstate. With all these perks on top of being easy to splash and having synergy with a handful of cards in this set, I think Tormenting Voice is at worse filler that you're happy to see in DKT.
I think you're falling a bit into how cards synergise rather than just taking at face value how good cards are in a vacuum. Even if you exploit goblin there are a ton of decks that the effect will do nothing against. It is also a horrible late game draw. Cobra trades for anything and can get through for damage.
A 2 power creature without evasion that costs 4? it's only getting through if your opponent lets it. I think deathtouch is being overrated as an ability in this thread. It's an amazing deterrant as a blocker vs their ground swarm. Let's not oversell it though.
Grade cards a bit more on just how they stand on their own, not if you draw them in the perfect order. (The green vigilance enchant you have rated too high as well)
Yeah, I might have it a bit high (I originally had it at 1.7 but bumped it up in response to feedback). Where do you think it sits and what do you think will be the average case scenario for it?
I figured that a good part of the value of Sight of the Scalelords ironically came from cards like Ukud Cobra, since if you play them T4/T5 the green enchantment is effectively a 4/7 deathtouch attacker, which seems pretty good. The Cobra of course remains the 2/5 deathtouch defender. The enchantment lets you attack with hard to block creatures while keeping your sheilds up vs their counterattack.
I think Tormenting Voice ought to be ranked higher. On T2, it filters. Late game, it turns useless land topdecks into cards. Even in the unideal turns like T3-T4, it helps look for mana or for answers when you're stuck. It also has some utility such as setting up delve cards, Fearsome Awakening, Kolaghan's Command, Dutiful Attendant, and Swift Warkite. This is a card that rarely feels bad to play and can sometimes even forward your gameplan, so it should be at least average, no?
We've seen it before in a more synergystic set. I was higher on it then than most, but I was wrong. You're spending 2 mana to turn two cards into two cards and not impact the board. That's just not worth it.
I think DKT will be different enough from KTK in a way that this card won't play as tamely as it did before. With the reliance on taplands gone, mana will be more free to use than before. For midrange and slower decks, early turns won't just be used putting in a bunch of taplands anymore; they now have plays they can do on T2. For aggro decks, those awkward T4 plays where you just play a tapland and a 3-drop are gone too. In this case Tormenting Voice gives both these decks something on which to pitch their open mana. Aggro decks get to pair it with a 1, 2, or 3-drop in the midgame, slower decks get to dig for answers and lands on a turn that would otherwise be draw-pass, and both decks benefit on the lategame from pitching excessive lands or cards that don't help the boardstate. With all these perks on top of being easy to splash and having synergy with a handful of cards in this set, I think Tormenting Voice is at worse filler that you're happy to see in DKT.
So you think I should bump it from 1.3 to 1.5? That doesn't seem outrageous.
You're going to have what maybe tops five exploit cards in your deck? And that's being generous. The aven, drowned and zombie maker are good or even great, (and the essence scatter and -3 are decent) but the bouncer can just sac itself (and isn't very good) and the rest are rare or not playable. Minister of pain isn't even that good unless your opponent is white or red. Anyway you'll have a small amount and goblin is way down on the list of creatures I want in there. I think goblin is a sideboard card if your opponent is playing x/1s.
I think the green enchant is probably 1.8 or so. I think your original estimation was fine. I think cobra is about a 3. Dominates the mid game when the opponent will need to 2-1 themselves to get rid of it and then sits back later and can eat stuff. Death touch as well is pseudo evasion. It's not like rats where they can trade off for it with their token. If they want to trade for it they're going to need to double team it or spend a trick (and leave themselves up to being blown out) or just trade some guy with 5 power who likely costs more.
I agree tv is about a 1.5-1.6. Comparing it to sightlord its not as powerful but a lot more decks will want this than the enchant.
I think in general the build around me cards need to drop a bit other than wandering. It's pretty easy to get one creature out on the board. However if the wandering is down in your library you could just die in your removal heavy creature light deck because you couldn't keep a board presence without the enchant. Skywide I'm uncertain on how good it really is. The dash deck I'm not sure is a thing and it doesn't make a hill giant a 3+ card. When I grade cards I like to look at:
1. Are they good on curve?
2: do they do anything on their own?
3. Is it good in a board stall?
4. Does it help me catch up from behind?
5. is it a good late turn top deck?
That's the nice thing about cobra. It passes them all unless you're just dying to flyers.
rather than start a new thread, I'll just post my rating here (letter grades rather than points, though).
scion of ugin c
anafenza b
arashin foremost b
artful maneuver c+
aven sunstriker b-
aven tactician c
battle mastery d-
center soul c-
champion of arashin c-
dragon hunter c+
dragon's eye sentry d-
dromoka captain c+
dromoka dunecaster c+
dromoka warrior c+
echoes of the kin tree c+
enduring victory c+
fate forgotten d-
glaring aegis d
gleam of authority c+
graceblade artisan c
great teacher's decree b-
herald of dromoka c+
hidden dragonslayer b+
lightwalker c
misthoof kirin c+
myth realized c+
ojutai exemplars a-
orator of ojutai c
pacifism b+
profound journey d
radiant purge d-
resupply d
sandcrafter mage c+
sandstorm charger c+
scale blessing d+
secure the wastes b+
shieldhide dragon b-
silkwrap c+
strongarm monk b-
student of ojutai c+
sunscorch regent a-
surge of righteousness b-
territorial roc d+
ancient carp d
anticipate c+
belltoll dragon c+
blessed reincarnation c
clone legion d-
contradict c-
dance of the skywise c-
dirgur nemesis c-
dragonlord's prerogative b-
elusive spellfist c
encase in ice c+
glint d+
gudul lurker c+
gurmag drowner c
icefall regent a
illusory gains b-
learn from the past f
living lore f
mirror mockery c
monastery loremaster c+
mystic meditation d
negate c-
ojutai interceptor c+
ojutai's breath c
ojutai's summons c+
palace familiar c
profaner of the dead c
qarsi deceiver c
reduce in stature b-
shorecrasher elemental b-
sidisi's faithful c
sight beyond sight c+
silumgar sorcerer b-
silumgar spell-eater b-
silumgar's scorn d
skywise teachings d
stratus dancer b
taigam's strike c
updraft elemental c-
void squall c
youthful scholar c
zephyr scribe c+
acid-spewer dragon c
ambuscade shaman c+
blood-chin fanatic b-
blood-chin rager c+
butcher's glee c+
coat with venom d+
corpseweft b+
damnable pact b+
deadly wanderings c+
death wind b
deathbringer regent b+
defeat c+
duress d-
dutiful attendant d
flatten b-
foul renewal b-
foul-tongue invocation c+
foul-tongue shriek d-
gravepurge c-
hand of silumgar b-
hedonist's trove d-
kolaghan skirmisher c
marang river skeleton c
marsh hulk c
mind rot c-
minister of pain c
pitiless horde b
qarsi sadist c-
rakshasa gravecaller b-
reckless imp c+
risen executioner b-
self-inflicted wound c
shambling goblin c-
sibsig icebreakers c
sidisi, undead vizier b+
silumgar assassin b
silumgar butcher c+
ukud cobra b-
ultimate price b+
virulent plague d-
vulturous aven c+
wandering tombshell d
atarka efreet c+
atarka pummeler c+
berserker's onslaught b
commune with lava c
crater elemental b
descent of the dragons b-
draconic roar b-
dragon fodder c+
dragon tempest d-
dragon whisperer a-
dragonlord's servant c
hardened berserker c+
impact tremors f
ire shaman b
kindled fury d+
kolaghan aspirant c
kolaghan forerunners c
kolaghan stormsinger c-
lightning berserker c+
lose calm d
magmatic chasm d
qal sisma behemoth c
rending volley c
roast b-
sabertooth outrider c+
sarkhan's rage c+
sarkhan's triumph do you have a rare dragon?
screamreach brawler c
seismic rupture c+
sprinting warbrute c
stormcrag elemental c+
stormwing dragon c
summit prowler c
tail slash c+
thunderbreak regent b+
tormenting voice c-
twin bolt c+
vandalize f
volcanic rush d
volcanic vision b-
warbringer b-
zurgo bellstriker c+
aerie bowmasters c+
ainok artillerist c
ainok survivalist b-
assault formation c+
atarka beastbreaker c+
avatar of the resolute b-
circle of elders c
collected company d
colossodon yearling c+
conifer strider c
deathmist raptor a-
den protector b
display of dominance f
dragon-scarred bear c
dromoka's gift c+
epic confrontation b-
explosive vegetation d
foe-razer regent b
glade watcher c+
guardian shield-bearer c+
herdchaster dragon c
inspiring call c???
lurking arynx c-
naturalize d-
obscuring aether c+
pinion feast c-
press the advantage c+
revealing wind f
salt road ambushers b-
salt road quartermasters c+
sandsteppe scavenger c-
scaleguard sentinels c+
segmented krotiq c+
servant of the scale c
shaman of forgotten ways b+
shape the sands d
sheltered aerie d
sight of the scalelords d+
stampeding elk herd c
sunbringer's touch d
surrak, the hunt caller b+
tread upon c-
arashin sovereign b-
atarka's command c+
boltwing marauder b+
cunning breezedancer c
dragonlord atarka a-
dragonlord dromoka b+
dragonlord kolaghan b+
dragonlord ojutai a
dragonlord silumgar a
dromoka's command b
enduring scalelord c+
harbinger of the hunt b+
kolaghan's command b+
narset transcendant b-
necromaster dragon b+
ojutai's command b-
pristine skywise b-
ruthless deathfang c+
sarkhan unbroken b+
savage ventmaw c
silumgar's command b
swift warkite c+
ancestral statute c
atarka monument c
custodian of the trove c
dragonloft idol c
dromoka monument c
gate smasher d
keeper of the lens d+
kolaghan monument c
ojutai monument c+
silumgar monument c
spidersilk net c-
stormrider rig c
tapestry of the ages d
vial of dragonfire c-
evolving wilds b-
haven of the spirit dragon c+
I've changed my mind on some of these after listening to LR, these are my initial ratings. The card I think is most interesting is youthful scholar - LR and magic show seem to think it's the second coming in limited, personally I'm not that excited. I can see a lot of scenarios where he sucks - if they're playing control, they can just ignore your inefficient 2/2, or force you to run it into a 2+/3+ creature as a slow divination, or just leave it as a 2/2 unblockable for 4 and crack you back. God forbid they have a 1-/3+ and can just let them bounce off each other. Or they're attacking with fatter dudes and it just chumps. Or if they're attacking with evasion and it can't even do that. Versus an aggro player with x/2- ground creatures, sure, a 3-for-1 is great, but in some matchups I see it being pretty awful. That said, value goes way up if you have good exploit creatures. Not that I plan to leave it out of my decks, but I think a C+ or so is more representative of the card than the B that LR gave it. I guess we'll see.
There are 6 commons with 5 power or more in DTK. Two of them have 1 thoughness, 1 has defender and one must attack each turn if able. The two good ones are both green (Segmented Krotiq and Stampeding Elk Herd.) IOW, ukud cobra is pretty good against non-green decks.
Edit: Dirk, dragonspeaker is rated higher than dromoka and kolaghan themselves? IOW, you'd pick it in a pack where both re present?!? This is just one example of relative pointing I've found weird.
Edit: Dirk, dragonspeaker is rated higher than dromoka and kolaghan themselves? IOW, you'd pick it in a pack where both re present?!? This is just one example of relative pointing I've found weird.
dragonspeaker isn't a card. Do you mean dragon whisperer? I mean yeah, I think he's really strong, at least if you're heavily red. He's a 2-drop that runs away with the game if he's not killed. Any of those 3 cards can win the game if not removed, but only one of them costs 2 mana. Also only one of them is mono-colored. Sure, he's heavily mono-colored, but since you don't need to hit him on-curve, I don't think it's much of a commitment.
Also those ratings are mostly irrelevant since it's not like you'll ever realistically have a choice between two mythics. Both of them are way beyond the power of any common or uncommon.
Even in a format with giant dragons, 2-drops can be of great importance. Instead of dropping bears, a dragon deck wants to drop x/3s and x/4s to slow the game down. Everyone will still have plays on turn 3 and 4 due to morph. No matter if you're aggro or control, you'd still want to get ahead of the curve by dropping a body on turn 2. Also, with the lack of CIPT gainlands and tri-lands, everyone's mana is going to be a little faster and there'll be less "turn 1 tapland, turn 2 tapland" going on.
Yeah, I thought about doing it but they were all so bad. vial of dragonfire is the most playable of them and there's already been some discussion about them. I'll put them in the OP.
Edit: done. The next thing is going to be threading the uncommons in there as well.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Some decks will want to go 2 drop, 3 drop, 4 drop, Taigam's Strike or something to that effect. The 2 drop will be there to get in some early damage and to be a chump blocker later when there is a damage race.
I think Deadly Wanderings will be good to maybe okay, since I my mind it's not as good as Homicidal Seclusion. The casting cost is harder being double BB while you lose a 1 power and 1 toughness. Plus I think Homicidal Seclusion being in Avacyn Restored made it even better? The creature and removal quality was low and it had the loner theme (Demonic Taskmaster and Fettergeist).
Just done the uncommons. But I can't change the thread title.
Could a mod do it?
For black, I think Ukud Cobra will be way better than the 1.8 (which is slightly below average by your standards). The thing only costs 4 and it blocks anything for days. I think Deadly Wanderings will be good, but I'm not so sure 3.4 good. Yes Homicidal Seclusion was a bomb but I think the decrease in both power and toughness and harder casting cost will make this enchantment feel "normal", I wonder if they made this into a trap card cause a lot of us knew how good seclusion was in Avacyn Restored.
For green, I understand why you put Sight of the Scalelords as 1.9 since I could very well be that. However, I just want to say I hope I open this my first pack of DTK draft and just grab every Aerie Bowmasters, Colossodon Yearling, Circle of Elders, Gurmag Drowner, and Updraft Elemental I see.
Thanks for putting up initial uncommon ratings. This will hopefully lead to some great discussions.
Also, Strongarm Monk is, to me as well, at least average or slightly better. It at least should beat out Echoes of the Kin Tree, to which you gave the same rating : I mean, slow, untargettable inevitability can and will win games, but if the format ends up even average fast, it's going to be a dead card more often than not.
If it weren't for Rakshasa Gravecaller, Ukud Cobra might have been my favorite uncommon of the set. It dodges quite a few nice removal spells of the format (Flatten, Silkwrap, Pyrotechnics, to name a few) and holds the ground superbly. It also synergizes with toughness matters effects, prevalent both in FRF and DTK. Lovely piece of cardboard.
Kolaghan Forerunners is at least average. It should pretty much never be alone when attacking (you did dash something before, right?) and as such is almost minimally a 2/3 trample for 3, with dash - and that is, to me, the worst case scenario. It should be easy to at least manage to keep it a 3/3, in which case it's above curve for red.
I'd argue that Gate Smasher is more playable than your rating indicates, but yeah, it only goes from unplayable to decent in the right decks. It's a tremendous stall breaker for high toughness, grindy decks, though.
STANDARD - Nothing
MODERN - Dredgevine
STANDARD - Nothing
MODERN - Dredgevine
We've seen it before in a more synergystic set. I was higher on it then than most, but I was wrong. You're spending 2 mana to turn two cards into two cards and not impact the board. That's just not worth it.
Ukud Cobra is trumped by Butcher's Glee, a card which I rank lower than the snake. There are just a bunch of ways to deal with a 2/5.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there's no 0-2 mana U/B creature that is unplayable, simply because Exploit is a thing.
A 2 power creature without evasion that costs 4? it's only getting through if your opponent lets it. I think deathtouch is being overrated as an ability in this thread. It's an amazing deterrant as a blocker vs their ground swarm. Let's not oversell it though.
Yeah, I might have it a bit high (I originally had it at 1.7 but bumped it up in response to feedback). Where do you think it sits and what do you think will be the average case scenario for it?
I figured that a good part of the value of Sight of the Scalelords ironically came from cards like Ukud Cobra, since if you play them T4/T5 the green enchantment is effectively a 4/7 deathtouch attacker, which seems pretty good. The Cobra of course remains the 2/5 deathtouch defender. The enchantment lets you attack with hard to block creatures while keeping your sheilds up vs their counterattack.
So you think I should bump it from 1.3 to 1.5? That doesn't seem outrageous.
I think the green enchant is probably 1.8 or so. I think your original estimation was fine. I think cobra is about a 3. Dominates the mid game when the opponent will need to 2-1 themselves to get rid of it and then sits back later and can eat stuff. Death touch as well is pseudo evasion. It's not like rats where they can trade off for it with their token. If they want to trade for it they're going to need to double team it or spend a trick (and leave themselves up to being blown out) or just trade some guy with 5 power who likely costs more.
I agree tv is about a 1.5-1.6. Comparing it to sightlord its not as powerful but a lot more decks will want this than the enchant.
I think in general the build around me cards need to drop a bit other than wandering. It's pretty easy to get one creature out on the board. However if the wandering is down in your library you could just die in your removal heavy creature light deck because you couldn't keep a board presence without the enchant. Skywide I'm uncertain on how good it really is. The dash deck I'm not sure is a thing and it doesn't make a hill giant a 3+ card. When I grade cards I like to look at:
1. Are they good on curve?
2: do they do anything on their own?
3. Is it good in a board stall?
4. Does it help me catch up from behind?
5. is it a good late turn top deck?
That's the nice thing about cobra. It passes them all unless you're just dying to flyers.
scion of ugin c
anafenza b
arashin foremost b
artful maneuver c+
aven sunstriker b-
aven tactician c
battle mastery d-
center soul c-
champion of arashin c-
dragon hunter c+
dragon's eye sentry d-
dromoka captain c+
dromoka dunecaster c+
dromoka warrior c+
echoes of the kin tree c+
enduring victory c+
fate forgotten d-
glaring aegis d
gleam of authority c+
graceblade artisan c
great teacher's decree b-
herald of dromoka c+
hidden dragonslayer b+
lightwalker c
misthoof kirin c+
myth realized c+
ojutai exemplars a-
orator of ojutai c
pacifism b+
profound journey d
radiant purge d-
resupply d
sandcrafter mage c+
sandstorm charger c+
scale blessing d+
secure the wastes b+
shieldhide dragon b-
silkwrap c+
strongarm monk b-
student of ojutai c+
sunscorch regent a-
surge of righteousness b-
territorial roc d+
ancient carp d
anticipate c+
belltoll dragon c+
blessed reincarnation c
clone legion d-
contradict c-
dance of the skywise c-
dirgur nemesis c-
dragonlord's prerogative b-
elusive spellfist c
encase in ice c+
glint d+
gudul lurker c+
gurmag drowner c
icefall regent a
illusory gains b-
learn from the past f
living lore f
mirror mockery c
monastery loremaster c+
mystic meditation d
negate c-
ojutai interceptor c+
ojutai's breath c
ojutai's summons c+
palace familiar c
profaner of the dead c
qarsi deceiver c
reduce in stature b-
shorecrasher elemental b-
sidisi's faithful c
sight beyond sight c+
silumgar sorcerer b-
silumgar spell-eater b-
silumgar's scorn d
skywise teachings d
stratus dancer b
taigam's strike c
updraft elemental c-
void squall c
youthful scholar c
zephyr scribe c+
acid-spewer dragon c
ambuscade shaman c+
blood-chin fanatic b-
blood-chin rager c+
butcher's glee c+
coat with venom d+
corpseweft b+
damnable pact b+
deadly wanderings c+
death wind b
deathbringer regent b+
defeat c+
duress d-
dutiful attendant d
flatten b-
foul renewal b-
foul-tongue invocation c+
foul-tongue shriek d-
gravepurge c-
hand of silumgar b-
hedonist's trove d-
kolaghan skirmisher c
marang river skeleton c
marsh hulk c
mind rot c-
minister of pain c
pitiless horde b
qarsi sadist c-
rakshasa gravecaller b-
reckless imp c+
risen executioner b-
self-inflicted wound c
shambling goblin c-
sibsig icebreakers c
sidisi, undead vizier b+
silumgar assassin b
silumgar butcher c+
ukud cobra b-
ultimate price b+
virulent plague d-
vulturous aven c+
wandering tombshell d
atarka efreet c+
atarka pummeler c+
berserker's onslaught b
commune with lava c
crater elemental b
descent of the dragons b-
draconic roar b-
dragon fodder c+
dragon tempest d-
dragon whisperer a-
dragonlord's servant c
hardened berserker c+
impact tremors f
ire shaman b
kindled fury d+
kolaghan aspirant c
kolaghan forerunners c
kolaghan stormsinger c-
lightning berserker c+
lose calm d
magmatic chasm d
qal sisma behemoth c
rending volley c
roast b-
sabertooth outrider c+
sarkhan's rage c+
sarkhan's triumph do you have a rare dragon?
screamreach brawler c
seismic rupture c+
sprinting warbrute c
stormcrag elemental c+
stormwing dragon c
summit prowler c
tail slash c+
thunderbreak regent b+
tormenting voice c-
twin bolt c+
vandalize f
volcanic rush d
volcanic vision b-
warbringer b-
zurgo bellstriker c+
aerie bowmasters c+
ainok artillerist c
ainok survivalist b-
assault formation c+
atarka beastbreaker c+
avatar of the resolute b-
circle of elders c
collected company d
colossodon yearling c+
conifer strider c
deathmist raptor a-
den protector b
display of dominance f
dragon-scarred bear c
dromoka's gift c+
epic confrontation b-
explosive vegetation d
foe-razer regent b
glade watcher c+
guardian shield-bearer c+
herdchaster dragon c
inspiring call c???
lurking arynx c-
naturalize d-
obscuring aether c+
pinion feast c-
press the advantage c+
revealing wind f
salt road ambushers b-
salt road quartermasters c+
sandsteppe scavenger c-
scaleguard sentinels c+
segmented krotiq c+
servant of the scale c
shaman of forgotten ways b+
shape the sands d
sheltered aerie d
sight of the scalelords d+
stampeding elk herd c
sunbringer's touch d
surrak, the hunt caller b+
tread upon c-
arashin sovereign b-
atarka's command c+
boltwing marauder b+
cunning breezedancer c
dragonlord atarka a-
dragonlord dromoka b+
dragonlord kolaghan b+
dragonlord ojutai a
dragonlord silumgar a
dromoka's command b
enduring scalelord c+
harbinger of the hunt b+
kolaghan's command b+
narset transcendant b-
necromaster dragon b+
ojutai's command b-
pristine skywise b-
ruthless deathfang c+
sarkhan unbroken b+
savage ventmaw c
silumgar's command b
swift warkite c+
ancestral statute c
atarka monument c
custodian of the trove c
dragonloft idol c
dromoka monument c
gate smasher d
keeper of the lens d+
kolaghan monument c
ojutai monument c+
silumgar monument c
spidersilk net c-
stormrider rig c
tapestry of the ages d
vial of dragonfire c-
evolving wilds b-
haven of the spirit dragon c+
I've changed my mind on some of these after listening to LR, these are my initial ratings. The card I think is most interesting is youthful scholar - LR and magic show seem to think it's the second coming in limited, personally I'm not that excited. I can see a lot of scenarios where he sucks - if they're playing control, they can just ignore your inefficient 2/2, or force you to run it into a 2+/3+ creature as a slow divination, or just leave it as a 2/2 unblockable for 4 and crack you back. God forbid they have a 1-/3+ and can just let them bounce off each other. Or they're attacking with fatter dudes and it just chumps. Or if they're attacking with evasion and it can't even do that. Versus an aggro player with x/2- ground creatures, sure, a 3-for-1 is great, but in some matchups I see it being pretty awful. That said, value goes way up if you have good exploit creatures. Not that I plan to leave it out of my decks, but I think a C+ or so is more representative of the card than the B that LR gave it. I guess we'll see.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
(And there are only 2 5-power uncommons. Strangely, both are red?! Qal Sisma Behemoth and Stormcrag Elemental.)
Edit: Dirk, dragonspeaker is rated higher than dromoka and kolaghan themselves? IOW, you'd pick it in a pack where both re present?!? This is just one example of relative pointing I've found weird.
Also those ratings are mostly irrelevant since it's not like you'll ever realistically have a choice between two mythics. Both of them are way beyond the power of any common or uncommon.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6