After doing some practice drafts in certain places, I've come to a few thoughts:
1. B/W spirits is pretty much predicated on Thief of Hope and Nameless inversion. There are some decent spirits beyond this, but the core is these two cards. If you don't get at least 3-4 Thiefs, and 2+ inversions, I would be reluctant to go that route. If you find it open, however, it is very difficult to beat out (As you are rewarded just for building a board presence and continuing to play the game with Thiefs). As I said, the other spirits aren't bad, just not good enough to draw you in this direction. These two cards if you get them in multiples certain is.
2. G/R ramp is awkward. I haven't seen it work particularly well. The major problem I've seen is that it requires you to have the right amount of ramp quickly, and the right things to ramp to to matter. It can be devastating, and some of the ramp cards are quite good, but it tends to fall to the more strictly synergy based decks.
3. U/W affinity/metalcraft is extremely solid. Your stuff isn't going to be as amazing as what other archetypes bring to the floor, and what you lack in flashy effects you gain in just pure efficiency. Court Homunculous goes late usually, so you should be able to fill out your early curve easily with them and Frogmites are fine. I haven't really gotten to a point where I can say Myr Enforcer's affinity is effective enough. Certainly quite good if you have a ton of cheaper artifacts, but if you're not that all-in it's pretty meh compared to what you could do with it in MMA. It's more about just being a more efficient deck than what else is going on. Faerie Mechanists should be high on your list if you go this route. It's not a particularly fast format from what I can tell, and that extra card goes a long way. Vapor Snags are a must inlude if you get them.
4. B/R Bloodthirsting aggro is fine. Vampire Lacerator or Goblin Fireslinger certainly are good here. I normally don't like Fireslinger type cards, but it serves a role in the early game by getting some damage across and powering your bloodthirst.
5. G/W tokens is really predicated on two cards at common: Scatter the Seeds and Raise the Alarm. Conclave Phalanx is also really good in the deck. Bestial Menace can be nearly unbeatable.
Overall, it's a pretty straight forward format. The issue I've found is that there are very few cards which are clearly good in more than one combination, particularly creatures. You do not want to get pulled in two ways in this format, as you will lack the synergies that more focused deck have. If you go U/W artifacts, you need to have focused on the important cards and creatures, many of which you won't want in other blue, white, or u/w decks. Obviously always the case, but seems exacerbated in this set from what I've experienced.
i think that relying on synergies was even more apparent in the original modern masters, which had more archetypes based on creature types and linear strategies and your deck had to have enough specific cards to stand a chance - faeries, storm, artifacts, rebels, giants and goblins. basically, if you ended up in ub but didn't have enough faeries, or storm without empty the warrens, you were in for a trainwreck, because too many commons cared about those specific strategies. by comparison, mm2 only has artifacts, spirits and elementals. you can totally draft a rw deck without sunspear shikari or a gu deck without thrummingbird and still make it work.
i think that relying on synergies was even more apparent in the original modern masters, which had more archetypes based on creature types and linear strategies and your deck had to have enough specific cards to stand a chance - faeries, storm, artifacts, rebels, giants and goblins. basically, if you ended up in ub but didn't have enough faeries, or storm without empty the warrens, you were in for a trainwreck, because too many commons cared about those specific strategies. by comparison, mm2 only has artifacts, spirits and elementals. you can totally draft a rw deck without sunspear shikari or a gu deck without thrummingbird and still make it work.
My favorite thing about MM1 was that you could draft for synergy, but good old fashioned "pile of good cards" was also viable. I think formats like that are the best. Can't tell whether or not that will be the case in this format.
that is the case. i actually like mm2 quite a bit more than mm, mostly due to more mm2 cards being useful in more decks compared to the first mm. wizards have done a good job.
This might be a bit more specific (and more work) than someone wants to get here but can a list be put together for each archetype that outlines the ideal picks for each deck? Possibly even in pick order? (best to worst)
inversion is definitely solid in all black decks, but no deck wants it more than spirits, where it's absolutely crucial to have something good to soulshift from a graveyard. apparition and pillory are both very good, but greed is the perfect finisher if you have enough spirits. haven't been too impressed with baku, and i've even cut it due to a overwhelming number of good 3-drops in wb, but that was probably a mistake.
shikari is great too, but the double strikers have more potential for blowouts.
i don't think bone splinters is as good as it seems, bg doesn't actually have that much token production at common, and there are a lot of other cards in those colors that demand sacrifice.
fireslinger should be there too, yeah, i only drafted br once so far and that deck didn't have any. i'll edit the list.
It seems to me that the set is designed so that you can't really force an archetype from pick 1 and see success unless you get lucky, as they're all fairly shallow and the enablers are mostly low picks for other strategies. Like you can't really first pick a Waxmane Baku or Thief of Hope and just hope to get there, because they'll be unplayable if anyone nearby is also in Spirits. This is a format that's going to heavily reward reading signals.
It seems like the first goal in any draft is going to be actively trying to avoid taking weird archetype cards and carefully catalogue what's coming around until you see a critical mass of one archetype or another, and mainly hope to pick them up on the wheel.
Fair enough on most of that, but I couldn't disagree more on Bone Splinters - I think it's a reason to be BG, and I don't understand what you mean about token production - Nest Invader, Kozilek's Predator, Dread Drone, Scatter the Seeds. No less than WG (largely because it's mostly in green, with one common each for white and black).
i don't think dread drone is very efficient, 5 mana is a steep price for a 4/1 and 2 tokens. raise the alarm gives you 2 tokens on turn 2, which is exactly when you need them to turn on convoke. but it's mostly the fact that tokens get eaten quickly in bg, with bloodthrone vampire, culling dais and groodion always wanting more fodder. plus, splinters is sorcery speed removal that's always going to be a 1-and-a-token for 1. all that said, i am probably underrating it and should start picking early, since i always expect it to wheel and it rarely does.
Bone Splinters is great. Really all you need is dorks. Trading your worst creature for their best is a great deal, and the fact that it costs one mana allows you to cast something big in the same turn, which can completely reverse the board position in your favor. Obviously a 6 creature U/b control deck isn't going to want Bone Splinters, but anything running a lot of creatures is going to want the card and prioritize it highly.
I also think Dread Drone is quite good. Even when it doesn't ramp you, the tokens can chump and it will often be like a 4/1 that gains you a whole bunch of life. The 4 power allows it to be pretty decent on defense on it's own, adn it obviously hits hard if you can keep your opponents board clear.
Bone Splinters is *playable*; I'm not sure about great. Trading their best creature for your worst plus a card is only occasionally going to be a good deal unless it's a Spawn token, and the fact that it costs you board position to play means you *need* to play something else on the same turn in order to merely maintain tempo. That would all combine to make it a good card, even with all the drawbacks, except that it's also a sorcery and therefore fails to be removal at the times you really want it most. The only time it's an actual desirable card for a deck is when you're playing tokens; the rest of the time it's the sort of removal you only play if you desperately need the effect (which is, admittedly, usually the case).
After testing the draft format quite a bit, and playing U/G, I would like to note that the key uncommon you should be looking into if it's open is Cytoplast Rootkin. That card breaks U/G graft in half. Coatl is great, but Rootkin fundamentally changes the game. It's better than a good many rares, and probably the best uncommon creature in the set. Another key uncommon is Plaxcaster Frog. It doesn't get as huge as coatl, but it makes things very difficult for the opponent, particularly if you get a Thrumming Bird with a counter on it.
If Rootkin somehow gets passed to you in the middle of pack 1, Green at least is open and you likely will get U/G as well (As any U/G player will not have passed you this). Expect to also get all the Aquastrand spiders from your right, as there is no reason to expect them to pick them and not this.
Other cards that are great for the deck that I've found are Repeal and Vapor Snag. Snag is particularly important for saving thrumming bird.
Basically, the general pick order for me would be Rootkin-Plaxcaster-Thrumming Bird-Coatl-Aquastrand-Everything else. If you cut off the good Graft creatures, Thrummingbird should wheel. And it doesn't get better than Rootkin.
If you were do do sealed black red bloodthirsty would you run bitterblossom, dark confidant or profane comand? Or would it be better to just jane your deck full of those common and uncommon 1 and 2 drop bloodthirsty? I keep getting those in my random generator pack also with fulminate Mage
If you were do do sealed black red bloodthirsty would you run bitterblossom, dark confidant or profane comand? Or would it be better to just jane your deck full of those common and uncommon 1 and 2 drop bloodthirsty? I keep getting those in my random generator pack also with fulminate Mage
Depends on the deck. Generally Bitterblossom and Command yes, with Confidant heavily depending on your curve. If you have a ton of 1-2 drops and nothing much beyond that, absolutely. If you have a good number of 3-drops, a few 4s and a couple 5s probably not. It's a good way to kill yourself methinks. That said I didn't play with it in Rav draft, so I have no idea how playable it was then.
Bitterblossom is just such great value. That 1 damage you get dealt each turn is nothing compared to an army of 1/1 flyers attacking, or blocking a 4/4 or 5/5. Command is highly versatile. Lets you drain for a finisher, use it as a kill spell, return a key creature, or Alpha strike through. Literally everything in one card you could want.
Another good thing going for Bone Splinters is it lets you get use out of a creature that has been "removed" by an aura. There's two of these effects at common (Arrest and Narcolepsy) as well as another at uncommon (Pillory of the Sleepless) so I can see that coming up semi-often.
I'm afraid some of the archetypes might be to slow - if you use your 2nd and/or 3rd turn to ramp or play things like a thrummingbird I fear that you can fall far behind against a RB bloodthirst or WU affinity deck... Event the WR equipment/pump deck could be incredible fast (any early double stiker + darksteel axe can quickly be game over)
Bitterblossom and Profane Command are two of the best limited cards in the format. Command in particular is absurd, adn I think it or Elesh Norn is the best limited card in the set.
If you pull Apostles Blessing is it worth running in an aggro deck? OR would those slots better be used for pumps/burn?
Apostle's Blessing is a good card to run if you're playing a lot of equipment/auras, to protect your voltron. Therefore it's a card you probably actively want one of in RW. Other aggro decks are going to stand to gain less tempo off of this but it's still reasonable as a means of pushing through damage, especially against decks with a heavy weight towards one color. Slower decks probably would rather not run this at all; they'd rather play a naturally resilient creature in the slot.
I like Apostle's Blessing, unless you're running a weird control deck that has few creatures, all of which are replaceable. If I'm running a control deck with bomb fliers, I want the Blessing.
Instants that grant protection are basically modal cards. They do so many things in so many situations, from saving your creature from removal, pushing through damage, and winning combat.
So would you all agree that B/G Sac token is looking like the draft strategy to be or to beat? I've had drafts where the commons alone were enough to be dominant. U/R Elementals, OTOH, always felt really weak. I had better luck playing a tempo strategy with a handful of Flayer Husk, a Thrummingbird, some Red bloodthirst guys, and blue fliers all backed up by Evoke creatures, Mana Leak, and burn spells.
So would you all agree that B/G Sac token is looking like the draft strategy to be or to beat? I've had drafts where the commons alone were enough to be dominant. U/R Elementals, OTOH, always felt really weak. I had better luck playing a tempo strategy with a handful of Flayer Husk, a Thrummingbird, some Red bloodthirst guys, and blue fliers all backed up by Evoke creatures, Mana Leak, and burn spells.
In testing on the old 'trice, I have yet to see it work or play well. Frankly, I've had more than my share of luck with U/G Counters. Even without Thrummingbird, the deck can be downright brutal in a hurry with Steady Progress. And yes, U/R elementals is weak. It just seems downright anemic compared to what else is going on. I've even had 2 Incandescants out and I still felt behind.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1. B/W spirits is pretty much predicated on Thief of Hope and Nameless inversion. There are some decent spirits beyond this, but the core is these two cards. If you don't get at least 3-4 Thiefs, and 2+ inversions, I would be reluctant to go that route. If you find it open, however, it is very difficult to beat out (As you are rewarded just for building a board presence and continuing to play the game with Thiefs). As I said, the other spirits aren't bad, just not good enough to draw you in this direction. These two cards if you get them in multiples certain is.
2. G/R ramp is awkward. I haven't seen it work particularly well. The major problem I've seen is that it requires you to have the right amount of ramp quickly, and the right things to ramp to to matter. It can be devastating, and some of the ramp cards are quite good, but it tends to fall to the more strictly synergy based decks.
3. U/W affinity/metalcraft is extremely solid. Your stuff isn't going to be as amazing as what other archetypes bring to the floor, and what you lack in flashy effects you gain in just pure efficiency. Court Homunculous goes late usually, so you should be able to fill out your early curve easily with them and Frogmites are fine. I haven't really gotten to a point where I can say Myr Enforcer's affinity is effective enough. Certainly quite good if you have a ton of cheaper artifacts, but if you're not that all-in it's pretty meh compared to what you could do with it in MMA. It's more about just being a more efficient deck than what else is going on. Faerie Mechanists should be high on your list if you go this route. It's not a particularly fast format from what I can tell, and that extra card goes a long way. Vapor Snags are a must inlude if you get them.
4. B/R Bloodthirsting aggro is fine. Vampire Lacerator or Goblin Fireslinger certainly are good here. I normally don't like Fireslinger type cards, but it serves a role in the early game by getting some damage across and powering your bloodthirst.
5. G/W tokens is really predicated on two cards at common: Scatter the Seeds and Raise the Alarm. Conclave Phalanx is also really good in the deck. Bestial Menace can be nearly unbeatable.
Overall, it's a pretty straight forward format. The issue I've found is that there are very few cards which are clearly good in more than one combination, particularly creatures. You do not want to get pulled in two ways in this format, as you will lack the synergies that more focused deck have. If you go U/W artifacts, you need to have focused on the important cards and creatures, many of which you won't want in other blue, white, or u/w decks. Obviously always the case, but seems exacerbated in this set from what I've experienced.
My favorite thing about MM1 was that you could draft for synergy, but good old fashioned "pile of good cards" was also viable. I think formats like that are the best. Can't tell whether or not that will be the case in this format.
wu artifacts
key commons:
court homunculus
rusted relic
myr enforcer
key uncommon:
myrsmith
wb spirits
key commons:
thief of hope
nameless inversion
key uncommon:
devouring greed
wr equipment
key commons:
viashino slaughtermaster
skyhunter skirmisher
apostle's blessing
key uncommon:
darksteel axe
wg tokens
key commons:
raise the alarm
scatter the seeds
kavu primarch
scion of the wild
key uncommon:
selesnya guildmage
ub proliferate
key commons:
grim affliction
thrummingbird
key uncommon:
tezzeret's gambit
ur elementals
key commons:
smokebraider
Æthersnipe
key uncommon:
incandescent soulstoke
ug graft
key commons:
thrummingbird
aquastrand spider
key uncommon:
lorescale coatl
br bloodthirst
key commons:
vampire lacerator
goblin fireslinger
gorehorn minotaurs
key uncommon:
ashenmoor gouger
bg sacrifice
key commons:
bloodthrone vampire
scatter the seeds
key uncommons:
drooling groodion
necrogenesis
rg domain
key commons:
evolving wilds
rampant growth
tribal flames
key uncommon:
savage twister
shikari is great too, but the double strikers have more potential for blowouts.
i don't think bone splinters is as good as it seems, bg doesn't actually have that much token production at common, and there are a lot of other cards in those colors that demand sacrifice.
fireslinger should be there too, yeah, i only drafted br once so far and that deck didn't have any. i'll edit the list.
It seems like the first goal in any draft is going to be actively trying to avoid taking weird archetype cards and carefully catalogue what's coming around until you see a critical mass of one archetype or another, and mainly hope to pick them up on the wheel.
i don't think dread drone is very efficient, 5 mana is a steep price for a 4/1 and 2 tokens. raise the alarm gives you 2 tokens on turn 2, which is exactly when you need them to turn on convoke. but it's mostly the fact that tokens get eaten quickly in bg, with bloodthrone vampire, culling dais and groodion always wanting more fodder. plus, splinters is sorcery speed removal that's always going to be a 1-and-a-token for 1. all that said, i am probably underrating it and should start picking early, since i always expect it to wheel and it rarely does.
I also think Dread Drone is quite good. Even when it doesn't ramp you, the tokens can chump and it will often be like a 4/1 that gains you a whole bunch of life. The 4 power allows it to be pretty decent on defense on it's own, adn it obviously hits hard if you can keep your opponents board clear.
If Rootkin somehow gets passed to you in the middle of pack 1, Green at least is open and you likely will get U/G as well (As any U/G player will not have passed you this). Expect to also get all the Aquastrand spiders from your right, as there is no reason to expect them to pick them and not this.
Other cards that are great for the deck that I've found are Repeal and Vapor Snag. Snag is particularly important for saving thrumming bird.
Basically, the general pick order for me would be Rootkin-Plaxcaster-Thrumming Bird-Coatl-Aquastrand-Everything else. If you cut off the good Graft creatures, Thrummingbird should wheel. And it doesn't get better than Rootkin.
Depends on the deck. Generally Bitterblossom and Command yes, with Confidant heavily depending on your curve. If you have a ton of 1-2 drops and nothing much beyond that, absolutely. If you have a good number of 3-drops, a few 4s and a couple 5s probably not. It's a good way to kill yourself methinks. That said I didn't play with it in Rav draft, so I have no idea how playable it was then.
Bitterblossom is just such great value. That 1 damage you get dealt each turn is nothing compared to an army of 1/1 flyers attacking, or blocking a 4/4 or 5/5. Command is highly versatile. Lets you drain for a finisher, use it as a kill spell, return a key creature, or Alpha strike through. Literally everything in one card you could want.
Apostle's Blessing is a good card to run if you're playing a lot of equipment/auras, to protect your voltron. Therefore it's a card you probably actively want one of in RW. Other aggro decks are going to stand to gain less tempo off of this but it's still reasonable as a means of pushing through damage, especially against decks with a heavy weight towards one color. Slower decks probably would rather not run this at all; they'd rather play a naturally resilient creature in the slot.
Instants that grant protection are basically modal cards. They do so many things in so many situations, from saving your creature from removal, pushing through damage, and winning combat.
In testing on the old 'trice, I have yet to see it work or play well. Frankly, I've had more than my share of luck with U/G Counters. Even without Thrummingbird, the deck can be downright brutal in a hurry with Steady Progress. And yes, U/R elementals is weak. It just seems downright anemic compared to what else is going on. I've even had 2 Incandescants out and I still felt behind.