I think UR Elementals can be really strong, but the problem is that it doesn't have that great finisher so you have to go outside the elemental to get what you need. And what you need is something that is going to be snatched up by a different archetype.
I still have no idea why they didn't throw in Ceaseless Searblades into this set. Would have given the elemental decks a 3rd good card to capitalize on. Plus they already threw in the first two parts of the combo (Inner-flame Igniter and Soulbright Flamekin) so why not the narrower but more rewarding searblades.
The design of this set is really bizarre to me. The first MM seemed much more focused and better designed for limited. Some of the mechanics look fleshed out and awesome, like U/G graft and W/B spirits, but a lot are just weird and not supported. The only archetype that just didn't feel supported in MM1 was Dredge.
I really don't feel like the UB archetype is well fleshed out. I really don't even know what it is... play good UB cards? Control / card draw? I mean I see all of the proliferate and I guess it could have a -1/-1 proliferation theme, but it still feels half-baked and too similar to a watered down U/G. In fact on that note if you had the lands I think BUG would be pretty strong.
I've done a bunch of practice drafts on Cockatrice and I've ended up in BW Spirits most of the time. Long-Forgotten Gohei is a house. BR Bloodthirst/Aggro looks pretty good too, as does GU Graft. Elementals and UB don't really feel supported at all. They could've at least included Ceaseless Searblades to try to go nuts with Soulbright Flamekin.
I agree, BUG seems pretty great if you can get the duals.
I really don't feel like the UB archetype is well fleshed out. I really don't even know what it is... play good UB cards? Control / card draw? I mean I see all of the proliferate and I guess it could have a -1/-1 proliferation theme, but it still feels half-baked and too similar to a watered down U/G. In fact on that note if you had the lands I think BUG would be pretty strong.
it also has access to the blue graft creatures, which help proliferate. it's not much of a theme, but it's there.
The design of this set is really bizarre to me. The first MM seemed much more focused and better designed for limited. Some of the mechanics look fleshed out and awesome, like U/G graft and W/B spirits, but a lot are just weird and not supported. The only archetype that just didn't feel supported in MM1 was Dredge.
I would actually say that W/B spirits is extremely shallow. It's certainly a very strong archetype, but it leans heavily on Thief of Hope and Waxmane Baku. If you don't get a good number of both, or at least one, it's just not worth playing at all. The rest of the cards are fine to quite good, but you can find yourself with very little pay-off. I find it bizarre that they leaned so heavily on just two cards. It makes the archetype super-linear and pretty predictable. If there is another person in Spirits at the table, you simply cannot make it work.
The only really supported archetypes I've seen are R/B Bloodrush (Which is just an efficient aggro plan), U/G Graft (As there are a decent number of proliferate effects, and a good range of cards with graft and the like at common-uncommon without much a need for a specific card), and U/W Artifacts (Which isn't nearly as crazy an archetype as the first go around; you just have a lot of efficient creatures and a bit of value in Faerie Mechanist). R/G doesn't really *do* much of anything other than be a worse R/B, W/G is alright but falls to the same with with W/B (Too few pay off cards), G/B just doesn't seem to work as intended, R/W can work but it's major doublestrikers are at uncommon or are terribly slow, and U/R elemental just doesn't seem to work well. Even with Incandescent soulstroke, it's just anemic compared to what the more heavily supported archetypes can do. 5-color can work, but it should be pretty damn good in any format if you get the fixing (As you should be playing nothing but good stuff).
So from what I can see, there are 3 very well supported archetypes that can handle more than one person at the table, and a few that can handle one, and a couple that require you to get really lucky to even work (Namely Spirits, which requires at a bare minimum 4-5 of Baku or Thief in some combination to even be a decent deck).
I think you're probably underrating Spirits a bit. Cards like Plagued Rusalka and Moonlit Strider are legitimate routes to victory for a grindy deck, and those are cards that are fairly likely to go late if the archetype is at all open. And Scuttling Death never stopped being ridiculous, either. It's possible you just aren't looking to grind, in which case that is probably not the archetype for you.
The design of this set is really bizarre to me. The first MM seemed much more focused and better designed for limited. Some of the mechanics look fleshed out and awesome, like U/G graft and W/B spirits, but a lot are just weird and not supported. The only archetype that just didn't feel supported in MM1 was Dredge.
I would actually say that W/B spirits is extremely shallow. It's certainly a very strong archetype, but it leans heavily on Thief of Hope and Waxmane Baku. If you don't get a good number of both, or at least one, it's just not worth playing at all. The rest of the cards are fine to quite good, but you can find yourself with very little pay-off. I find it bizarre that they leaned so heavily on just two cards. It makes the archetype super-linear and pretty predictable. If there is another person in Spirits at the table, you simply cannot make it work.
The only really supported archetypes I've seen are R/B Bloodrush (Which is just an efficient aggro plan), U/G Graft (As there are a decent number of proliferate effects, and a good range of cards with graft and the like at common-uncommon without much a need for a specific card), and U/W Artifacts (Which isn't nearly as crazy an archetype as the first go around; you just have a lot of efficient creatures and a bit of value in Faerie Mechanist). R/G doesn't really *do* much of anything other than be a worse R/B, W/G is alright but falls to the same with with W/B (Too few pay off cards), G/B just doesn't seem to work as intended, R/W can work but it's major doublestrikers are at uncommon or are terribly slow, and U/R elemental just doesn't seem to work well. Even with Incandescent soulstroke, it's just anemic compared to what the more heavily supported archetypes can do. 5-color can work, but it should be pretty damn good in any format if you get the fixing (As you should be playing nothing but good stuff).
Your premise is too not draft a deck because you might never get the commons, this can happen to anyone. If you pick the open strategy and were reading the draft correctly this rarely happens. No one else is taking waxmane baku or theif of hope. Your big fight is over otherworldly journey and bomb uncommons. Also if you didn't see and spirits pack 1 then why are you in it? This is just sitting at a table and forcing something which always ends very poorly.
So from what I can see, there are 3 very well supported archetypes that can handle more than one person at the table, and a few that can handle one, and a couple that require you to get really lucky to even work (Namely Spirits, which requires at a bare minimum 4-5 of Baku or Thief in some combination to even be a decent deck).
This is just wrong. U/R elementals has aethersnipe and spitebellows. Back this up with random elementals that get pumped. This is not even counting the always nuts mulldrifter. Turn 3 2/2 that comes with two cards seems nice. W/B spirits is a control deck. you use soulshift mechanics to grind the game out. Just don't play waking nightmare the card is trash. R/G is not a color combo. R/W is a color combo looking to pump guys. Also doublestrikers are at common, there two of them. This is not even counting multiple other common first strikers which make blocking a terrible idea. Also 5 color is about getting payoff from domain commons in r/g, not about playing a pile of "good stuff". Also w/b gets all the other good w/b card. You have insane bombs for w/b at uncommon and rare, spectral procession and relentless apparition are blow out uncommons.W/B has the strongest removal, and you get recursion. I really think you just don't understand how to play control at all. Finally you should never be in someone else archetype in a modern masters draft. There are easily 10 good distinct archetypes that you can draft, At an 8 person table? If you are trying to do that same thing as someone else at the table you are doing it wrong.
It was amazing. So much supporting cards came my way. First pick was a Hellkite Charger so I thought well may as well play red.
Disclaimer : We redraft rares at my LGS. I sent Ulamog on his way from pack 3 and it almost made it back to me lol
Then I grabbed a green card thinking maybe going RG and then I was passed Battlegrace Angel. EDIT: (I'm probably remembering this wrong, I think I was just passed heaps of good white and switched from green because it was more open and there was no green to be picked and then I got the angel pack 3 but it definitely came from the dude on my right) Since I knew I was playing RW I drafted the appropriate equipment and double strike deck to go with my bombs. Pack 2 I drafted Wildfire which was fine I guess, used it as land destruction against a UB deck round 1 and stopped him casting his bombs which was nice. I also had All is Dust passed to me which I kept in hand for sideboard against colored creature swarms. Etched Champion looked nice with all the equipment I was going to be playing so I grabbed that. Then I was passed a Wilt-Leaf Liege which I thought would be a nice white anthem for the double strikers and a 4/4 for 4 is always sweet.
So many times I would play Battlegrace on turn 5 trigger the exalted/lifelink on a double striker that was already equipped and it was pretty much an automatic win each time. Skyhunter Skirmisher equip Cranial Plating swing trigger exalted swing for 5 double strike, take 10 I gain 10?
Round 2 I played Jeskai artifacts/affinity. I lost game 2 after a Wildfire when he reloaded using draw spells and I topdecked nothing. Next game I curved out perfecting Battlegrace Angel into Hellkite Charger and he had no chance. This guy took a Boros Garrison I was hoping would go around. I didn't think anybody was playing RW but I don't think I really needed the fixing that badly.
Finals was UG proliferate. Actually a bit of a tough one. Lost game 1 after he beat me down with Thrummingbird boosting his creatures then finishing me with Vines of Vastwood on an unblocked creature. Game 2 was a really close contest but I managed to win the battle eventually with Wilt-Leaf Liege pumping my creatures up and slowly beating him down with one creature pumped with all my equipment. So nice being able to just go again with another creature when that creature dies and the equipment drops off.
Game 3 I just had it all. 10 point swings in the air, too many bomb rares as they say and it was all over. 100% MM15 draft record
I think I was passed a couple too many bombs here but as it's my first time drafting the set as well as others there's no excuses. All I did was look at what themes each color combination is matched with and went from there. Wasn't the best box, got Kozilek as my top pick which barely pays for the draft. Seems like limited is balanced well for this set. Those that tried drafting 3 colors didn't look to be having a good time of it from what I saw, just gotta hang tough with 2 colors for the best consistency.
I think you're probably underrating Spirits a bit. Cards like Plagued Rusalka and Moonlit Strider are legitimate routes to victory for a grindy deck, and those are cards that are fairly likely to go late if the archetype is at all open. And Scuttling Death never stopped being ridiculous, either. It's possible you just aren't looking to grind, in which case that is probably not the archetype for you.
I never said the archetype was weak. Just fairly shallow. If you get the pieces, it is extremely strong.
I think you're probably underrating Spirits a bit. Cards like Plagued Rusalka and Moonlit Strider are legitimate routes to victory for a grindy deck, and those are cards that are fairly likely to go late if the archetype is at all open. And Scuttling Death never stopped being ridiculous, either. It's possible you just aren't looking to grind, in which case that is probably not the archetype for you.
I never said the archetype was weak. Just fairly shallow. If you get the pieces, it is extremely strong.
Shallow is not a legit criticism. If anything it is a bonus when drafting. Shallow is not the word your looking for, narrow is the word you really mean. Narrow cards also tend to be focused. Your basically complaining because wizards did a good job and focused in on the deck. Good draft decks are always shallow because they focus along a specific line to win. You are complaining about not having an overabundance of commons that you don't need to win. If you didn't get the pieces for the deck you were drafting to make it work, you drafted wrong that is not a set design issue. Also not every card needs to be a spirit. Even 10 spirit cards can make the deck work, and you play it with any other cards you get that are good.
The design of this set is really bizarre to me. The first MM seemed much more focused and better designed for limited. Some of the mechanics look fleshed out and awesome, like U/G graft and W/B spirits, but a lot are just weird and not supported. The only archetype that just didn't feel supported in MM1 was Dredge.
I would actually say that W/B spirits is extremely shallow. It's certainly a very strong archetype, but it leans heavily on Thief of Hope and Waxmane Baku. If you don't get a good number of both, or at least one, it's just not worth playing at all. The rest of the cards are fine to quite good, but you can find yourself with very little pay-off. I find it bizarre that they leaned so heavily on just two cards. It makes the archetype super-linear and pretty predictable. If there is another person in Spirits at the table, you simply cannot make it work.
The only really supported archetypes I've seen are R/B Bloodrush (Which is just an efficient aggro plan), U/G Graft (As there are a decent number of proliferate effects, and a good range of cards with graft and the like at common-uncommon without much a need for a specific card), and U/W Artifacts (Which isn't nearly as crazy an archetype as the first go around; you just have a lot of efficient creatures and a bit of value in Faerie Mechanist). R/G doesn't really *do* much of anything other than be a worse R/B, W/G is alright but falls to the same with with W/B (Too few pay off cards), G/B just doesn't seem to work as intended, R/W can work but it's major doublestrikers are at uncommon or are terribly slow, and U/R elemental just doesn't seem to work well. Even with Incandescent soulstroke, it's just anemic compared to what the more heavily supported archetypes can do. 5-color can work, but it should be pretty damn good in any format if you get the fixing (As you should be playing nothing but good stuff).
Your premise is too not draft a deck because you might never get the commons, this can happen to anyone. If you pick the open strategy and were reading the draft correctly this rarely happens. No one else is taking waxmane baku or theif of hope. Your big fight is over otherworldly journey and bomb uncommons. Also if you didn't see and spirits pack 1 then why are you in it? This is just sitting at a table and forcing something which always ends very poorly.
So from what I can see, there are 3 very well supported archetypes that can handle more than one person at the table, and a few that can handle one, and a couple that require you to get really lucky to even work (Namely Spirits, which requires at a bare minimum 4-5 of Baku or Thief in some combination to even be a decent deck).
This is just wrong. U/R elementals has aethersnipe and spitebellows. Back this up with random elementals that get pumped. This is not even counting the always nuts mulldrifter. Turn 3 2/2 that comes with two cards seems nice. W/B spirits is a control deck. you use soulshift mechanics to grind the game out. Just don't play waking nightmare the card is trash. R/G is not a color combo. R/W is a color combo looking to pump guys. Also doublestrikers are at common, there two of them. This is not even counting multiple other common first strikers which make blocking a terrible idea. Also 5 color is about getting payoff from domain commons in r/g, not about playing a pile of "good stuff". Also w/b gets all the other good w/b card. You have insane bombs for w/b at uncommon and rare, spectral procession and relentless apparition are blow out uncommons.W/B has the strongest removal, and you get recursion. I really think you just don't understand how to play control at all. Finally you should never be in someone else archetype in a modern masters draft. There are easily 10 good distinct archetypes that you can draft, At an 8 person table? If you are trying to do that same thing as someone else at the table you are doing it wrong.
For U/R:
I want to know the draft environment where you get passed Mulldrifters and Spite Bellows, let alone in multiples (And Mulldrifter, while insane, is not a turn 3 2/2; it's a turn 3 Divination that's a turn five 2/2). Sure, if you happen to get a few marque uncommons that are pickable over a good many rares, and pretty much any other common/uncommon card in the set, you have a good deck. Yeah, occassionally you'll get that deck. But generally you are going to be slow to the party and what you bring to the table will be anemic compared to what else is going on. The only fortunate thing is that you are generally playing cards that go late.
For B/W:
The Spirits archetype is shallow. This is not to say it is weak. You can certainly get a very good spirits deck. Certainly you can make a B/W deck work outside this archetype, as you can with any color combination. But to play the spirits archetype itself, you certainly need specific cards in a good number to actually work. I stand by this statement fully. Certainly you can, and should play B/W good stuff if you get it. But you should play X/X good stuff if you get it. This does not negate what I said about the archetype itself. There are very few actually interactive pieces with the spirits you do get. It works great when you do get it, but with so few pieces in the set you will find yourself more often than you would think without much interaction.
R/G is most certainly a color combination. It's a ramp-ish deck that focuses on burn based removal, efficient creatures, and possible combo kills with Soulbright Flamekin, Inner Flame Igniter, and Eldrazi tokens/Saprolings. I think the problem is is that it really isn't much of an archetype in and of itself, just a good color combination with multiple routes you can go.
I was a bit harsh on R/W, but then again I'm a bit harsh on all linear strategies in draft. Too easy to break up what you are trying to do. Granted, living weapons break up the sting of removing your creatures. So it likely is better than I give it credit for in the end.
As for 5 color, I had a discussion with perhaps one of the best drafters I know on this very subject last night. He essentially is of the opinion of not playing middling card with some synergies and the like, even in five color, and instead just focusing on good cards. And it makes sense. Why bother with going for all of this weird synergistic stuff when you can just play all the best card that are passed to you, and just have better cards than everyone else? And if you're in 5-color, you essentially can pick the best card from every pack and be able to play it. He has't last a single game all weekend. And I looked at his decks. Last night was a R/W deck with the only doublestriker as Mirran Crusader, and was just a pile of good cards. He deck from his early draft in the day was U/G good stuff, with only a smidge of graft. His deck from the release event was 5-color good stuff, and not a single domain spell.
In general the archetypes are mostly shallow. This is not to say they are necessarily weak. But there are so few good cards for many of the given archetypes, particularly at common, that they more often than not will not work. The ones I mentioned were the archetypes that are well supported at the common level with a good number of strong common cards to choose from, and a fairly good number of bomby uncommons as well. Once again, this is speaking only to the actual archetypes in the set.
I think you're probably underrating Spirits a bit. Cards like Plagued Rusalka and Moonlit Strider are legitimate routes to victory for a grindy deck, and those are cards that are fairly likely to go late if the archetype is at all open. And Scuttling Death never stopped being ridiculous, either. It's possible you just aren't looking to grind, in which case that is probably not the archetype for you.
I never said the archetype was weak. Just fairly shallow. If you get the pieces, it is extremely strong.
Shallow is not a legit criticism. If anything it is a bonus when drafting. Shallow is not the word your looking for, narrow is the word you really mean. Narrow cards also tend to be focused. Your basically complaining because wizards did a good job and focused in on the deck. Good draft decks are always shallow because they focus along a specific line to win. You are complaining about not having an overabundance of commons that you don't need to win. If you didn't get the pieces for the deck you were drafting to make it work, you drafted wrong that is not a set design issue. Also not every card needs to be a spirit. Even 10 spirit cards can make the deck work, and you play it with any other cards you get that are good.
Shallow is a perfectly legitimate criticism. You simply cannot make the deck work without Bakus and Thiefs. You bringing a bunch of four mana 1/4s and a five mana 4/2 to the table is a good way to lose and hard, regardless of how much value you can gain. The issue is that it is extremely narrow, focusing on two specific cards to actually be an advantageous archetype to be in. Good set design comes with, you know actually supporting your archetypes well enough to actually have a decent level of diversity in the decks that can exist in a given archetype.
Equally, shallow is exactly what I'm looking for. The pool does not run deep for B/W spirits. There very few cards which interact favorably with Soulshift in the entire set. There are 10 spirit spells in the set at common/uncommon. That is a very shallow pool to choose from. There is very little Arcane interaction as well, with only 4 common/uncommon cards of dubious inclusion. There are 2 cards which interact with Spirits in general either on cast or on the board. To note, Spectral Procession doesn't actually do anything more for the spirits deck than it does for other decks. Awesome card, but the fact it makes spirits is pretty much irrelevant for the archetype. It might as well have made flying monkeys for all the deck cares about.
That is an incredibly shallow pool of cards to choose from. You don't have many options, and certainly not many good options. That is what I mean by shallow.
i don't see what your problem with spirits is. archetypes that depend on one or two commons are nothing new, especially in formats with 10 color combinations. if you see a thief of hope late, you know it's a signal; if you don't, you just draft whatever else is open. the archetype doesn't have a lot of good commons, true, but that's because nobody else wants those cards. restless apparition and pillory of the sleepless can only be played in wb, and thief of hope, moonlit strider, waxmane baku, devouring greed and scuttling death wheel every time if nobody else is drafting spirits. if wb is open, you'll end up with a reasonable deck. it's the same thing with elementals, btw, with smokebraider being the main common.
other color combinations may technically have more commons, but that's because a lot of them can be played in different archetypes, so people will actually fight over them.
and the rg deck is the 5-color deck. it has fiery fall and sylvan bounty at common, it's pretty obvious that's the way it's intended to be drafted.
Thief of Hope is certainly a high priority for the BW deck, but I'll be fairly shocked if the whole archetype hinges on that card, because it certainly never did before.
Both Thief and Waxmane Baku are cards that improve the tempo game of the spirits deck, but my point was that you don't need to play a tempo game with spirits at all. If you miss out completely on both those cards, you can still exhaust your opponents hand, stall the board, and win with Pillories and Rusalkas. The strategy is tried and true.
Thief of Hope is certainly a high priority for the BW deck, but I'll be fairly shocked if the whole archetype hinges on that card, because it certainly never did before.
Both Thief and Waxmane Baku are cards that improve the tempo game of the spirits deck, but my point was that you don't need to play a tempo game with spirits at all. If you miss out completely on both those cards, you can still exhaust your opponents hand, stall the board, and win with Pillories and Rusalkas. The strategy is tried and true.
i have no reason to suspect that wasn't true in kamigawa, but it's not really the case here. without the life drain thieves provide, the spirits are just too weak to survive any pressure from the opponent.
you can test it yourself when mm2 arrives on mtgo there is really no reason to make a spirit deck without some number of thieves, there is simply not enough payoff. sure, you have the soulshift shenanigans, but that's almost never enough against other, more concentrated strategies.
32 player draft at my FNM last night, 2 of the top 4 were B/W spirits by drafters in the same pod of 8. Neither of the pro tour players at our store made the top 8. One went 3-2 with mono-red aggro, the other went 2-3 with U/W affinity. I went 4-1 in the swiss rounds with a Jeskai good stuff deck before losing in the top 8 to 5 colour control.
The format turned out to be relatively slow due to the amount of cheap removal. All of the aggro strategies fold if you remove their enablers early: R/B needs to trigger bloodthirst, R/W is too split between equipment/tricks and creatures, and U/W needs to hit a critical mass of artifacts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[center]AKA Leon What I'm Currently Playing: Vintage:UW Mentor Legacy:UG Infect Modern:UX MUD Standard: N/A
Thief of Hope is certainly a high priority for the BW deck, but I'll be fairly shocked if the whole archetype hinges on that card, because it certainly never did before.
Both Thief and Waxmane Baku are cards that improve the tempo game of the spirits deck, but my point was that you don't need to play a tempo game with spirits at all. If you miss out completely on both those cards, you can still exhaust your opponents hand, stall the board, and win with Pillories and Rusalkas. The strategy is tried and true.
When the archetype was around before there were a whole lot more cards that gave you some kind of bonus for playing Spirits, not to mention more Spirits and better Arcane spells. It didn't hinge one one specific card because there were several options to fill that role. Now if you want to play Spirits as a thing, Thief (and Waxmane) is the only real payoff so you better get multiples. Otherwise you're just B/W with some very restrictive Gravediggers.
U/W artifcats looks terrible to me this time. I don't see the suppport for it.
Beg to differ. I ran it today and did quite well. Faerie Mechanist is as insane as ever, and Rusted Relic plus Myr Enforcer make for a solid ground. Usually I'd win with either those, or steady air pressure from the Mechanist plus Qumulox. Thoughtcast was good, but of course the whole deck gets all of it's explosiveness from Darksteel Citadel. U/W has plenty of removal besides, so I'd say the support is there. The only problem is that, since it's artifacts, some of the lower drops like the Living Weapons and mana artifacts get taken by other decks. But if anything, that just shows how much support for it there is.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I agree, BUG seems pretty great if you can get the duals.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
it also has access to the blue graft creatures, which help proliferate. it's not much of a theme, but it's there.
I would actually say that W/B spirits is extremely shallow. It's certainly a very strong archetype, but it leans heavily on Thief of Hope and Waxmane Baku. If you don't get a good number of both, or at least one, it's just not worth playing at all. The rest of the cards are fine to quite good, but you can find yourself with very little pay-off. I find it bizarre that they leaned so heavily on just two cards. It makes the archetype super-linear and pretty predictable. If there is another person in Spirits at the table, you simply cannot make it work.
The only really supported archetypes I've seen are R/B Bloodrush (Which is just an efficient aggro plan), U/G Graft (As there are a decent number of proliferate effects, and a good range of cards with graft and the like at common-uncommon without much a need for a specific card), and U/W Artifacts (Which isn't nearly as crazy an archetype as the first go around; you just have a lot of efficient creatures and a bit of value in Faerie Mechanist). R/G doesn't really *do* much of anything other than be a worse R/B, W/G is alright but falls to the same with with W/B (Too few pay off cards), G/B just doesn't seem to work as intended, R/W can work but it's major doublestrikers are at uncommon or are terribly slow, and U/R elemental just doesn't seem to work well. Even with Incandescent soulstroke, it's just anemic compared to what the more heavily supported archetypes can do. 5-color can work, but it should be pretty damn good in any format if you get the fixing (As you should be playing nothing but good stuff).
So from what I can see, there are 3 very well supported archetypes that can handle more than one person at the table, and a few that can handle one, and a couple that require you to get really lucky to even work (Namely Spirits, which requires at a bare minimum 4-5 of Baku or Thief in some combination to even be a decent deck).
This is just wrong. U/R elementals has aethersnipe and spitebellows. Back this up with random elementals that get pumped. This is not even counting the always nuts mulldrifter. Turn 3 2/2 that comes with two cards seems nice. W/B spirits is a control deck. you use soulshift mechanics to grind the game out. Just don't play waking nightmare the card is trash. R/G is not a color combo. R/W is a color combo looking to pump guys. Also doublestrikers are at common, there two of them. This is not even counting multiple other common first strikers which make blocking a terrible idea. Also 5 color is about getting payoff from domain commons in r/g, not about playing a pile of "good stuff". Also w/b gets all the other good w/b card. You have insane bombs for w/b at uncommon and rare, spectral procession and relentless apparition are blow out uncommons.W/B has the strongest removal, and you get recursion. I really think you just don't understand how to play control at all. Finally you should never be in someone else archetype in a modern masters draft. There are easily 10 good distinct archetypes that you can draft, At an 8 person table? If you are trying to do that same thing as someone else at the table you are doing it wrong.
It was amazing. So much supporting cards came my way. First pick was a Hellkite Charger so I thought well may as well play red.
Disclaimer : We redraft rares at my LGS. I sent Ulamog on his way from pack 3 and it almost made it back to me lol
Then I grabbed a green card thinking maybe going RG and then I was passed Battlegrace Angel. EDIT: (I'm probably remembering this wrong, I think I was just passed heaps of good white and switched from green because it was more open and there was no green to be picked and then I got the angel pack 3 but it definitely came from the dude on my right) Since I knew I was playing RW I drafted the appropriate equipment and double strike deck to go with my bombs. Pack 2 I drafted Wildfire which was fine I guess, used it as land destruction against a UB deck round 1 and stopped him casting his bombs which was nice. I also had All is Dust passed to me which I kept in hand for sideboard against colored creature swarms. Etched Champion looked nice with all the equipment I was going to be playing so I grabbed that. Then I was passed a Wilt-Leaf Liege which I thought would be a nice white anthem for the double strikers and a 4/4 for 4 is always sweet.
So many times I would play Battlegrace on turn 5 trigger the exalted/lifelink on a double striker that was already equipped and it was pretty much an automatic win each time. Skyhunter Skirmisher equip Cranial Plating swing trigger exalted swing for 5 double strike, take 10 I gain 10?
Court Homunculus was fine. Great to equip him up with a Kitesail and attack through the air.
Round 2 I played Jeskai artifacts/affinity. I lost game 2 after a Wildfire when he reloaded using draw spells and I topdecked nothing. Next game I curved out perfecting Battlegrace Angel into Hellkite Charger and he had no chance. This guy took a Boros Garrison I was hoping would go around. I didn't think anybody was playing RW but I don't think I really needed the fixing that badly.
Finals was UG proliferate. Actually a bit of a tough one. Lost game 1 after he beat me down with Thrummingbird boosting his creatures then finishing me with Vines of Vastwood on an unblocked creature. Game 2 was a really close contest but I managed to win the battle eventually with Wilt-Leaf Liege pumping my creatures up and slowly beating him down with one creature pumped with all my equipment. So nice being able to just go again with another creature when that creature dies and the equipment drops off.
Game 3 I just had it all. 10 point swings in the air, too many bomb rares as they say and it was all over. 100% MM15 draft record
2 Skyhunter Skirmisher
1 Kor Duelist
1 Sunspear Shikari
1 Taj-Nar Swordsmith
1 Battlegrace Angel
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Blinding Souleater
1 Cathodion
1 Runed Servitor
1 Etched Champion
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Copper Carapace
1 Darksteel Axe
1 Cranial Plating
1 Kitesail
2 Burst Lightning
1 Wildfire
1 Arrest
1 Dispatch
8 Mountain
I think I was passed a couple too many bombs here but as it's my first time drafting the set as well as others there's no excuses. All I did was look at what themes each color combination is matched with and went from there. Wasn't the best box, got Kozilek as my top pick which barely pays for the draft. Seems like limited is balanced well for this set. Those that tried drafting 3 colors didn't look to be having a good time of it from what I saw, just gotta hang tough with 2 colors for the best consistency.
I never said the archetype was weak. Just fairly shallow. If you get the pieces, it is extremely strong.
Shallow is not a legit criticism. If anything it is a bonus when drafting. Shallow is not the word your looking for, narrow is the word you really mean. Narrow cards also tend to be focused. Your basically complaining because wizards did a good job and focused in on the deck. Good draft decks are always shallow because they focus along a specific line to win. You are complaining about not having an overabundance of commons that you don't need to win. If you didn't get the pieces for the deck you were drafting to make it work, you drafted wrong that is not a set design issue. Also not every card needs to be a spirit. Even 10 spirit cards can make the deck work, and you play it with any other cards you get that are good.
For U/R:
I want to know the draft environment where you get passed Mulldrifters and Spite Bellows, let alone in multiples (And Mulldrifter, while insane, is not a turn 3 2/2; it's a turn 3 Divination that's a turn five 2/2). Sure, if you happen to get a few marque uncommons that are pickable over a good many rares, and pretty much any other common/uncommon card in the set, you have a good deck. Yeah, occassionally you'll get that deck. But generally you are going to be slow to the party and what you bring to the table will be anemic compared to what else is going on. The only fortunate thing is that you are generally playing cards that go late.
For B/W:
The Spirits archetype is shallow. This is not to say it is weak. You can certainly get a very good spirits deck. Certainly you can make a B/W deck work outside this archetype, as you can with any color combination. But to play the spirits archetype itself, you certainly need specific cards in a good number to actually work. I stand by this statement fully. Certainly you can, and should play B/W good stuff if you get it. But you should play X/X good stuff if you get it. This does not negate what I said about the archetype itself. There are very few actually interactive pieces with the spirits you do get. It works great when you do get it, but with so few pieces in the set you will find yourself more often than you would think without much interaction.
R/G is most certainly a color combination. It's a ramp-ish deck that focuses on burn based removal, efficient creatures, and possible combo kills with Soulbright Flamekin, Inner Flame Igniter, and Eldrazi tokens/Saprolings. I think the problem is is that it really isn't much of an archetype in and of itself, just a good color combination with multiple routes you can go.
I was a bit harsh on R/W, but then again I'm a bit harsh on all linear strategies in draft. Too easy to break up what you are trying to do. Granted, living weapons break up the sting of removing your creatures. So it likely is better than I give it credit for in the end.
As for 5 color, I had a discussion with perhaps one of the best drafters I know on this very subject last night. He essentially is of the opinion of not playing middling card with some synergies and the like, even in five color, and instead just focusing on good cards. And it makes sense. Why bother with going for all of this weird synergistic stuff when you can just play all the best card that are passed to you, and just have better cards than everyone else? And if you're in 5-color, you essentially can pick the best card from every pack and be able to play it. He has't last a single game all weekend. And I looked at his decks. Last night was a R/W deck with the only doublestriker as Mirran Crusader, and was just a pile of good cards. He deck from his early draft in the day was U/G good stuff, with only a smidge of graft. His deck from the release event was 5-color good stuff, and not a single domain spell.
In general the archetypes are mostly shallow. This is not to say they are necessarily weak. But there are so few good cards for many of the given archetypes, particularly at common, that they more often than not will not work. The ones I mentioned were the archetypes that are well supported at the common level with a good number of strong common cards to choose from, and a fairly good number of bomby uncommons as well. Once again, this is speaking only to the actual archetypes in the set.
Shallow is a perfectly legitimate criticism. You simply cannot make the deck work without Bakus and Thiefs. You bringing a bunch of four mana 1/4s and a five mana 4/2 to the table is a good way to lose and hard, regardless of how much value you can gain. The issue is that it is extremely narrow, focusing on two specific cards to actually be an advantageous archetype to be in. Good set design comes with, you know actually supporting your archetypes well enough to actually have a decent level of diversity in the decks that can exist in a given archetype.
Equally, shallow is exactly what I'm looking for. The pool does not run deep for B/W spirits. There very few cards which interact favorably with Soulshift in the entire set. There are 10 spirit spells in the set at common/uncommon. That is a very shallow pool to choose from. There is very little Arcane interaction as well, with only 4 common/uncommon cards of dubious inclusion. There are 2 cards which interact with Spirits in general either on cast or on the board. To note, Spectral Procession doesn't actually do anything more for the spirits deck than it does for other decks. Awesome card, but the fact it makes spirits is pretty much irrelevant for the archetype. It might as well have made flying monkeys for all the deck cares about.
That is an incredibly shallow pool of cards to choose from. You don't have many options, and certainly not many good options. That is what I mean by shallow.
other color combinations may technically have more commons, but that's because a lot of them can be played in different archetypes, so people will actually fight over them.
and the rg deck is the 5-color deck. it has fiery fall and sylvan bounty at common, it's pretty obvious that's the way it's intended to be drafted.
Both Thief and Waxmane Baku are cards that improve the tempo game of the spirits deck, but my point was that you don't need to play a tempo game with spirits at all. If you miss out completely on both those cards, you can still exhaust your opponents hand, stall the board, and win with Pillories and Rusalkas. The strategy is tried and true.
i have no reason to suspect that wasn't true in kamigawa, but it's not really the case here. without the life drain thieves provide, the spirits are just too weak to survive any pressure from the opponent.
you can test it yourself when mm2 arrives on mtgo there is really no reason to make a spirit deck without some number of thieves, there is simply not enough payoff. sure, you have the soulshift shenanigans, but that's almost never enough against other, more concentrated strategies.
The format turned out to be relatively slow due to the amount of cheap removal. All of the aggro strategies fold if you remove their enablers early: R/B needs to trigger bloodthirst, R/W is too split between equipment/tricks and creatures, and U/W needs to hit a critical mass of artifacts.
What I'm Currently Playing:
Vintage:UW Mentor
Legacy:UG Infect
Modern:UX MUD
Standard: N/A
Beg to differ. I ran it today and did quite well. Faerie Mechanist is as insane as ever, and Rusted Relic plus Myr Enforcer make for a solid ground. Usually I'd win with either those, or steady air pressure from the Mechanist plus Qumulox. Thoughtcast was good, but of course the whole deck gets all of it's explosiveness from Darksteel Citadel. U/W has plenty of removal besides, so I'd say the support is there. The only problem is that, since it's artifacts, some of the lower drops like the Living Weapons and mana artifacts get taken by other decks. But if anything, that just shows how much support for it there is.