No man, not the same case. I wouldn't make fun of that, but I would if Phelps says something like "there aren't good swimmers in Russia" and then a russian defeats him in the finals. See the difference?
That is a terrible analogy.
-Turtenwald did not say there is not a good Green deck that can be made. He said you're better off not drafting Green.
-The element of chance is a key determining factor in winning at Magic. That is not the case in swimming.
-Being Russian or not being Russian doesn't actually have an effect on your ability to swim. Being in Green changes the entire subset of cards that are available to you.
-Being Russian or not being Russian isn't really a matter of choice. Being in Green is a strategic decision and it's something you can actively choose to avoid.
-Saying "there aren't good swimmers in Russia" not only insults all Russian Olympic swimmers, but insults an entire nation. Nobody "belongs" to Green, since you choose your colors to start each draft.
If you think what Owen Turtenwald said is like saying "there aren't good swimmers in Russia", you're just being incredibly ignorant and dramatic.
If you think what Owen Turtenwald said is like saying "there aren't good swimmers in Russia", you're just being incredibly ignorant and dramatic.
And if you think I believe my example is exactly the same case you are being incredibly obtuse.
The joke is not Owen lost a game. The joke is Owen loudly critiziced green and then he lost the finals against green. That's it. If you don't see there's something ironic and funny in this I can't do anything for you.
Some of you are up in arms defending Owen when he isn't even being attacked. Funny or not, it was nothing but a joke. Let's move on, people.
I thought LSV's recent take on the whole thing was quite reasonable:
How good green is happens to be one of the most controversial topics when it comes to BFZ Limited, starting with Owen's article after the Pro Tour. His assertion that drafting green was to be avoided at all costs met a lot of resistance, but as more people draft, and as more results come in—the more accurate his statement appears to be. Green is very weak at the common level, which is what matters for draft, and the odds that you should be green in a given draft are very low. I'm not of the opinion that you should never draft green, but it takes strong signals for me to be willing to do so.
How this informs my updated reviews:
The only deck I like that includes green is GWx Allies, which is largely driven by Tajuru Warcaller and Beastmaster with a smattering of converge cards.
BG Sacrifice, RG Landfall, and UG ??? are generally weak. I try to avoid ending up in these decks unless I'm really pushed into them, which involves multiple rares/uncommons.
...
Note that the anti-green bias does NOT apply to Sealed. In Draft, the reason not to take a green card is that your future prospects are generally poor—often you will end up with a worse deck because you committed to green without knowing what you would get for that. In sealed, that's not applicable, because you have all the cards in front of you. As such, there's no external reason not to play green, so you should evaluate the cards just based on their individual power, which in many cases is good.
Yep, LSV hit it on the head here. The only green deck I've had success with is Naya Allies.
I personally can't say that I've had much experience drafting BfZ yet (only did one draft last Friday, ran a Bant-colored deck) but from looking at the set, it would be wrong to ignore good green cards half-way through first picks. In fact, that's a poor idea in nearly any draft environment. I agree that green looks to be the weakest color, but if you're seeing more and more solid green cards that can pull their weight, it should be up for consideration.
Whether or not it worked does not validate the play. That's hindsight probability. Let's say I offered you a bet -- I'm going to flip a coin and if it's heads, I'll give you 1 dollar but if it's tails, you'll give me 2 dollars. This is obviously a terrible bet for you. Accepting it is a bad decision. You can't justify it afterwards by arguing that you won the flip, therefore you made the right decision.
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That is a terrible analogy.
-Turtenwald did not say there is not a good Green deck that can be made. He said you're better off not drafting Green.
-The element of chance is a key determining factor in winning at Magic. That is not the case in swimming.
-Being Russian or not being Russian doesn't actually have an effect on your ability to swim. Being in Green changes the entire subset of cards that are available to you.
-Being Russian or not being Russian isn't really a matter of choice. Being in Green is a strategic decision and it's something you can actively choose to avoid.
-Saying "there aren't good swimmers in Russia" not only insults all Russian Olympic swimmers, but insults an entire nation. Nobody "belongs" to Green, since you choose your colors to start each draft.
If you think what Owen Turtenwald said is like saying "there aren't good swimmers in Russia", you're just being incredibly ignorant and dramatic.
And if you think I believe my example is exactly the same case you are being incredibly obtuse.
The joke is not Owen lost a game. The joke is Owen loudly critiziced green and then he lost the finals against green. That's it. If you don't see there's something ironic and funny in this I can't do anything for you.
Some of you are up in arms defending Owen when he isn't even being attacked. Funny or not, it was nothing but a joke. Let's move on, people.
This is most definitely NOT true for 99% of people who play Magic however
The classic backpedal.
I also thought it was ironic and somewhat funny that he'd lose to a green deck.
Yep, LSV hit it on the head here. The only green deck I've had success with is Naya Allies.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control