In preparation for the current PTQ season I have just started to really think about M14 limited. In my testing and conversations with local players I have trying to hash out which of Blues 2/1 flyers for 2U I like more, Trained Condor or Warden of Evos Isle.
So far I would give the edge to the Condor. Condor allows you to play a tempo deck in a slow format. I have had some success in MTGO 8-4s with Scroll Thief along side Condor. UG has been one of my favorite archetypes in this format, and the Condor is a star in that deck. However, this bird gets worse the bluer you are because more and more of your creatures have wings of their own.
Warden shines in the decks condor would be worse. Heavy blue, UB, and Uw decks allow the Wardens to gain you a mana advantage to matter. These decks have the tools to stabilize as you get a discount on your flyers and attack for 2 a turn. Multiple wardens can be pretty insane. Warden does not break stalls as well as the Condor, but still isn't a terrible draw on a stalled board.
I think I give the edge to the Condor. I think that the upside of the condor is greater in a larger number of decks. It is a potent effect in my favorite archetype. This card allows you to "fix" drafts that have gone wrong by getting random good attacks in. I feel like warden is better in decks that are already good to begin with, and condor is probably going to be okay in those decks as well. Lots of flyers are going to win games in this format (assuming you are able to stabilize the board for them).
So my questions for the MTGSalvation community are:
In a blank pack 1/pick 1 which of these two card which would you pick? Why?
If you are already blue with Opportunity, Claustrophobia and in pick three you have a blank pack with these two cards, what do you take?
What cards would you need to have to move you away from your preferred 2/1 flyer?
First i agree with what you have said about condor.
The upside of the warden is to allow you to play your threats a turn early or to play more than one a turn. What i have found is that this upside is not game winning. As has been said before this format is slower. So I often do not fell pressured to get my threats out faster.
If you are already blue with Opportunity, Claustrophobia and in pick three you have a blank pack with these two cards, what do you take?
These cards push me to more controlling strategies [read not green] so I would pick the warden. I do not see much benefit to having condor in a UB or UW deck. UR condor can be good. So if I thought red was also open I would take the condor.
Also, completely agree. Though I would have to say that if I suspect I might get away with a mono U deck, then I would also trend toward the warden. (Get you my Air Servant(s) and Messenger Drake(s) out earlier.
I generally agree with the guidelines algebra suggests, although I guess it is deck-specific. A RU deck with dragons might want the Warden, and a UB deck might want the Condor more (to lift Child of Night, or if you're lucky, Lilliana's Reaver).
Also, to nitpick a point, Warden of Evos Isle isn't a 2/1.
They're fairly comparable, but they're good in different decks. Later in the format I'll probably end up with a clearer idea of which is best. Right now, P1P1 my inclination would be to take the Warden because I'm much more likely to see Condor again, so I'm hedging better, I feel, in terms of what deck I ultimately end up in. Warden is also better in the deck that wants Condor more than Condor is in the deck that wants Warden more.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Also, to nitpick a point, Warden of Evos Isle isn't a 2/1.
Yea, I somehow just always thought he was a 2/1. I think when the spoilers were up I said something along the lines of, "there is no wind drake at common". It became "there is no non-rare wind drake" in my mind. Sorry
I always thought condor was very mediocre and still do. Even though blue is the best I said screw blue and let's stomp my opponents with RG and this is what it looked like:
Took it to top 8 of a PTQ, don't force blue if you have to, I'd say a RG deck like this beats nearly any blue deck.
P1P1 I would cry that I have to take one of those 2, but if I have to because the pack is trash then warden of evos isle. Turn 4 messenger drakes and air servants are pretty good.
If you are already into blue with Opp and Claustro then still warden, since you are already blue you will have more fliers that trained condor will be redundant with.
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So far I would give the edge to the Condor. Condor allows you to play a tempo deck in a slow format. I have had some success in MTGO 8-4s with Scroll Thief along side Condor. UG has been one of my favorite archetypes in this format, and the Condor is a star in that deck. However, this bird gets worse the bluer you are because more and more of your creatures have wings of their own.
Warden shines in the decks condor would be worse. Heavy blue, UB, and Uw decks allow the Wardens to gain you a mana advantage to matter. These decks have the tools to stabilize as you get a discount on your flyers and attack for 2 a turn. Multiple wardens can be pretty insane. Warden does not break stalls as well as the Condor, but still isn't a terrible draw on a stalled board.
I think I give the edge to the Condor. I think that the upside of the condor is greater in a larger number of decks. It is a potent effect in my favorite archetype. This card allows you to "fix" drafts that have gone wrong by getting random good attacks in. I feel like warden is better in decks that are already good to begin with, and condor is probably going to be okay in those decks as well. Lots of flyers are going to win games in this format (assuming you are able to stabilize the board for them).
So my questions for the MTGSalvation community are:
In a blank pack 1/pick 1 which of these two card which would you pick? Why?
If you are already blue with Opportunity, Claustrophobia and in pick three you have a blank pack with these two cards, what do you take?
What cards would you need to have to move you away from your preferred 2/1 flyer?
-Thanks,
Orphan.
The upside of the warden is to allow you to play your threats a turn early or to play more than one a turn. What i have found is that this upside is not game winning. As has been said before this format is slower. So I often do not fell pressured to get my threats out faster.
I think the condor has a bigger upside i would take the condor.
These cards push me to more controlling strategies [read not green] so I would pick the warden. I do not see much benefit to having condor in a UB or UW deck. UR condor can be good. So if I thought red was also open I would take the condor.
green and red pushes me away from warden
white and black pushes me away from condor
FTFY
Also, completely agree. Though I would have to say that if I suspect I might get away with a mono U deck, then I would also trend toward the warden. (Get you my Air Servant(s) and Messenger Drake(s) out earlier.
Also, to nitpick a point, Warden of Evos Isle isn't a 2/1.
And that explains why I generically had internalized that I more often wanted Warden.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
what would you first pick in this pack
Burning Earth Vial of Poison Staff of the Flame Magus Warden of Evos Isle Undead Minotaur Tome Scour Trained Condor Shadowborn Apostle Ranger's Guile Lava Axe Lay of the Land Duress Divine Favor Groundshaker Sliver
I honestly think it doesn't matter. It is completely irrelevant what you take out of this pack, if it is even a real pack.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
However, a weak first pick (like this example is) isn't locking us into anything. We could easily draft monoB or BR sac after this.
Yea, I somehow just always thought he was a 2/1. I think when the spoilers were up I said something along the lines of, "there is no wind drake at common". It became "there is no non-rare wind drake" in my mind. Sorry
Took it to top 8 of a PTQ, don't force blue if you have to, I'd say a RG deck like this beats nearly any blue deck.
If you are already into blue with Opp and Claustro then still warden, since you are already blue you will have more fliers that trained condor will be redundant with.