Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
1) Strangleroot Geist - plenty of green roaming around, and this guy is beats city
2) Huntmaster of the Fells - unfortunately competes with Bloodbraid, but still undeniably good and doesn't really have any explicit drawbacks.
3) Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - I could see him bring BW tokens in the tier 2 or maybe even 1 range.
4) Havengul Lich - this guy is begging to allow some degenerate things to happen, especially with Gifts Ungiven.
5) Faithless Looting - seems like a solid card for Twin and other combo decks.
I wonder if Curse of Exhaustion will see any play - maybe only if storm becomes particularly good.
I also wonder if Undying Evil could be good in decks that run Snapcaster, and whether Saving Grasp would work in Merfolk. Being able to defeat all sorts of removal twice seems like a good deal.
And lastly, I wonder if there's a fateful hour deck that could be made, that uses Death's Shadow and tries to keep its life total at 5 or less.
The one thing I don't really see in this set is any card that calls out to be broken. While there's plenty of cards that could see play in Modern, none of them (with the possible exception of Sorin 2.0) seem to be powerhouse build-around-me cards like Delver or Past in Flames, or amazing utility cards like Liliana or Snapcaster.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
_________________________________________
People's Front of 422
The issue with this is morbid is really terrible, and tons of two toughness creatures are starting to show up. Delver being one of them.(at least after flips)
Conditional cards that don't have a major upside just are not good. Dismember is still the best 1 mana removal spell outside of path, and that's not likely to change as removal gets worse and worse to push creatures.
Morbid is not that bad if the upside effect is good enough. Sure, if you are playing a creatureless deck it is harder to make it happen, but even then you can easily double-up removal when it's this cheap. Tragic Slip is probably a better card than Disfigure (which does see some play in Modern), and it's probably a little bit worse than Dismember, but I guess we'll have to see when we can actually play with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
_________________________________________
People's Front of 422
I don't see a ton of cards from Dark Ascension actually sprucing things up at all in Modern, but here's my list of nods.
1. Gravecrawler - A 2/1 for 1 in black is really good. A 2/1 for 1 in black that you can also cast from your graveyard is really, really good. My favorite card from the set.
3. Strangleroot Geist - A reverse Kitchen Finks without the lifegain, but with Haste. Very aggressive, but too bad it's so entirely green. Still, good card.
4. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - Finally Sorin gets good. Pumps out tokens to defend himself, and they have lifelink, and he's in the right colors for a Modern token deck.. Great ultimate. Not much to dislike, here.
5. Grim Backwoods - This card grew on me. A land that offers repeatable draw is enticing, despite the steep cost.
I honestly can not disagree with your choices. I will say that I think Sorin is a bit overyhyped for what he does. He is a worse version of Elspeth, Knight-Errant however for the set he is in you are correct in saying he is one of the better cards in this particular set. I think Gravecrawler alone makes pox(taxes) a real threat however which should be great to see.
I wonder if Curse of Exhaustion will see any play - maybe only if storm becomes particularly good.
I also wonder if Undying Evil could be good in decks that run Snapcaster, and whether Saving Grasp would work in Merfolk. Being able to defeat all sorts of removal twice seems like a good deal.
And lastly, I wonder if there's a fateful hour deck that could be made, that uses Death's Shadow and tries to keep its life total at 5 or less.
The one thing I don't really see in this set is any card that calls out to be broken. While there's plenty of cards that could see play in Modern, none of them (with the possible exception of Sorin 2.0) seem to be powerhouse build-around-me cards like Delver or Past in Flames, or amazing utility cards like Liliana or Snapcaster.
I predict Curse of Exhaustion will only see play if they ban Rule of Law (yeah right, that will ever happen). The 1-cmc difference can be everything--UR Storm often combos off on Turn 4, and if you're on the draw, the white Curse does nothing while Rule of Law can still be slammed down onto the table by then.
All Undying Evil does is counter a removal spell and put a +1/+1 counter on a creature you control. I'd rather use a counterspell that can counter anything.
As Saving Grasp trades with up to two removal spells--but only up to two removal spells and not two of some other spell--I think Merfolk will stick to counterspells.
Geralf's Messenger should see play if there's a home for it. Lingering Spirits should see play, as well as Thalia and Faithless Looting. Maybe Sorin, overrated as he is. Also Thought Scour and maybe the new spell-lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
After playing with and agaisnt the set my short list would be mainly commons and uncommons. I dont see alot of the rares or mythics making a huge splash in Modern. Maybe Thalia if hate bears becomes big. The cage will see play in sides. I truely belive Sorin at 4 mana and double colored will not see alot of play. By turn 4 you want the board in your favor. Not to mention if tokens becomes real, ratchet bomb will be played by everyone.
My top 5 in order are;
#1 Faithless Looting, Will be good in alot of decks and make alot of decks good, and helps with combo.
#2 Tragic Slip, Instant speed 1 B cc, can use it to take out almost any creature ever made! or use it on a bird or something...
#3 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 cc artifact with gy hate, it will be in alot of SB
#4 Sorin Lord of Innistrad, he will be alright, probably overated, wont do as well as lili 2.0 did but might give some new B/W decks to emerge
#5 Deadly Alure, be nice to force something to get blocked, poisen might have a shot again lol? or use it on the bloodghast or similar to try and get rid of anoying stuff. but probs wont see that much play
*Vault of the Archangel might see some use in some pod decks
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: pft, i love to see my cards depreciate in value once they rotate :S
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
in terms of sheer volume of play, my money's on thought scour.
it's not big or flashy, but i can see people running this.
other than that, it's pretty situational. i think Sorin will see a fair amount of play, even if only for a short while, and he'll eventually find a niche in a deck or two.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I think Grafdiggers Cage is going to replace Relic of Progenitus / Tormods Crypt 3 & 4 in most Modern sideboards, as it shuts down A LOT more popular interactions and works like a silver bullet against some decks that have no problem with Relic. (Combo Elves come to mind)
Other than that, I could imagine Counterlash being played in some kind of Combo-Control deck (cast Emrakul and counter your creature spell for 6? yes, please!) and I think, Deranged Outcast or Elbrus (maybe with Quest for the Holy Relic?) could become decks, too, but probably only Tier 2/3. Oh yeah, and Sorin is way overrated.
Grafdigger's Cage doesn't shut down Living End, sadly. It does shut down Melira. Those are really the only two relevant decks.
As for Counterlash, I agree that this card has potential. Don't forget you can counter your own memnite for an emrakul. Not too shabby. Or your own Thoughtseize for an Army of the Damned. Again. Not too shabby. Game-winning? In casual for sure. Competitive? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the rest of the deck.
Ray of Revelation are definitely good enough, assuming there's a deck they can go in.
possible sideboard card, but kinda meh. we have less specific hate to run for the popular enchantments.(like celestial purge)
(might not see play) Faithless Looting,
really because this was the only home run in the set as far as modern main decks go.
Garbage. storm has better ways to dig including the card above.
Tragic Slip Your right this is definitely not good enough for modern. Unless creatures suddenly lose 1-2 toughness across the board by a massive banning or something.
Meh maybe. If a token deck were to exist that didn't get wrecked by combo and any control that might be played. It is quite sad that this would be best in the bant aggro deck, or at least out of known archetypes.
I wonder if Curse of Exhaustion will see any play - maybe only if storm becomes particularly good.
You know we have a 3 mana version of this card. Sure it effects you, but if your siding this in your not the kind of deck that want to cast 10 spells in a turn.
I also wonder if Undying Evil could be good in decks that run Snapcaster, and whether Saving Grasp would work in Merfolk. Being able to defeat all sorts of removal twice seems like a good deal.
Both of those cards are just as good(or worse than) as 2 other cards that we have in this format that don't see play.
And lastly, I wonder if there's a fateful hour deck that could be made, that uses Death's Shadow and tries to keep its life total at 5 or less.
the main problem with this is that most of these cards are very marginal even if you have met the stipulation for them to be at their best. At their worst they do nothing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
the main problem with this is that most of these cards are very marginal even if you have met the stipulation for them to be at their best. At their worst they do nothing.
It depends on how you're evaluating the cards...I think you might be looking at things a bit narrowly.
If I want a beater that outclasses most bodies, yes this is true, however if my aim is to simply get into the red zone and deal as much damage as possible, I'd probably be on the Geist over 'goyf...more damage, faster and built in resilience to removal which ruins your day if you extend heavy early on.
In practice: a lot of Bant builds have run 0 goyfs...he's seen as too slow for the deck by some pilots. Geist might just tempt them as insurance against those games where you can't Hierarch > Geist > Elspeth and T4 them.
Likewise, some of the cards are clearly powerful...they're just waiting for a home (Thought Scour) or a meta shift (Ray of Revalation)
Geist is a lot better than Goyf in a lot of decks. Granted, these decks are mostly just GW Aggro variants, but still.
green white aggro leans toward the middle(not a place for little guys)
The only deck that would use it would be some sort of rg sligh, but that would be much worse than Boros and too small for bant sake.
Its all about trumps. Goyf will most likely trump this guy if they are played the same turn. It will also do more damage over the course of the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
If I want a beater that outclasses most bodies, yes this is true, however if my aim is to simply get into the red zone and deal as much damage as possible, I'd probably be on the Geist over 'goyf...more damage, faster and built in resilience to removal which ruins your day if you extend heavy early on.
In practice: a lot of Bant builds have run 0 goyfs...he's seen as too slow for the deck by some pilots. Geist might just tempt them as insurance against those games where you can't Hierarch > Geist > Elspeth and T4 them.
Likewise, some of the cards are clearly powerful...they're just waiting for a home (Thought Scour) or a meta shift (Ray of Revalation)
I'm confused about which Geist you're referring to at what time. With the Hierarch-Geist-Elspeth-T4 kill, you probably mean Geist of Saint Traft, right? That guy definitely deals more damage faster than Goyf and has built-in resilience to targeted removal.
Strangleroot Geist has more resilience to board wipes, but it's no Goblin Guide (same power, same Haste, same uselessness once your opponent thumps down a Goyf, but Guide comes down on Turn 1 instead of Strangleroot's Turn 2 and therefore deals more damage than a 3/4 Goyf by Turn 4 while Goyf catches up to Strangleroot by then).
Granted, Traft is one of those rare guys that commands a Wrath of God by himself (the other guy being Thrun, the Last Troll). Since opponents are that afraid of him, that should help you not overextend into sweepers.
the main problem with this is that most of these cards are very marginal even if you have met the stipulation for them to be at their best. At their worst they do nothing.
Thought Scour may only see fringe play, and may not be good enough for Storm decks, but I would not dismiss it so quickly. It's a cantrip that fuels the graveyard very efficiently. I wouldn't be surprised to see this in a whole new deck type at some point. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's not
"garbage".
Same with Tragic Slip. It might not see play in every deck that wants black removal, but 1 mana to kill your non-Emrakul fatty is REALLY good. There are enough X/1's to make it fine even without Morbid, but if your deck is designed to turn that mechanic on somewhat consistently, you're talking about a very, very efficient removal spell.
Also, the "worse than Goyf" argument for Strangleroot Geist is pretty weak as well. A lot of things are worse than Goyf, but that doesn't make them unplayable. Many times, Goyf is only a 1/2 or a 2/3 on turn 2 anyway, making Geist just as good if not better for an aggro deck. Again, it probably won't be universally adopted, but I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. "Can be run alongside Goyf" is another way to look at this card.
Strangleroot Geist is just different from Goyf. In Modern, Goyf doesn't like to come down on turn two. You'll actually drop this guy on turn two and swing. He's a bit of a sweep-deterrant, too. Doesn't get as big, of course. Doesn't survive a bolt even after undying. I don't know. I think it's more fair to compare him to kitchen finks which does see a lot of play alongside goyf.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
GWU CG
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1) Strangleroot Geist - plenty of green roaming around, and this guy is beats city
2) Huntmaster of the Fells - unfortunately competes with Bloodbraid, but still undeniably good and doesn't really have any explicit drawbacks.
3) Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - I could see him bring BW tokens in the tier 2 or maybe even 1 range.
4) Havengul Lich - this guy is begging to allow some degenerate things to happen, especially with Gifts Ungiven.
5) Faithless Looting - seems like a solid card for Twin and other combo decks.
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!
There's probably 10 or so other cards that do something interesting but perhaps not powerful enough - like Faithless Looting, Thoughtscour (UR Storm...), Gravecrawler, Tragic Slip, Grafdigger's Cage, Erdwal Ripper, Immerwolf, Vault of the Archangel, etc.
I wonder if Curse of Exhaustion will see any play - maybe only if storm becomes particularly good.
I also wonder if Undying Evil could be good in decks that run Snapcaster, and whether Saving Grasp would work in Merfolk. Being able to defeat all sorts of removal twice seems like a good deal.
And lastly, I wonder if there's a fateful hour deck that could be made, that uses Death's Shadow and tries to keep its life total at 5 or less.
The one thing I don't really see in this set is any card that calls out to be broken. While there's plenty of cards that could see play in Modern, none of them (with the possible exception of Sorin 2.0) seem to be powerhouse build-around-me cards like Delver or Past in Flames, or amazing utility cards like Liliana or Snapcaster.
People's Front of 422
Morbid is not that bad if the upside effect is good enough. Sure, if you are playing a creatureless deck it is harder to make it happen, but even then you can easily double-up removal when it's this cheap. Tragic Slip is probably a better card than Disfigure (which does see some play in Modern), and it's probably a little bit worse than Dismember, but I guess we'll have to see when we can actually play with it.
People's Front of 422
I honestly can not disagree with your choices. I will say that I think Sorin is a bit overyhyped for what he does. He is a worse version of Elspeth, Knight-Errant however for the set he is in you are correct in saying he is one of the better cards in this particular set. I think Gravecrawler alone makes pox(taxes) a real threat however which should be great to see.
I predict Curse of Exhaustion will only see play if they ban Rule of Law (yeah right, that will ever happen). The 1-cmc difference can be everything--UR Storm often combos off on Turn 4, and if you're on the draw, the white Curse does nothing while Rule of Law can still be slammed down onto the table by then.
All Undying Evil does is counter a removal spell and put a +1/+1 counter on a creature you control. I'd rather use a counterspell that can counter anything.
As Saving Grasp trades with up to two removal spells--but only up to two removal spells and not two of some other spell--I think Merfolk will stick to counterspells.
Gather the Townsfolk, Lingering Souls, Ray of Revelation, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Thought Scour
Gravecrawler, Geralf's Messanger (this card is better than we think)
Faithless Looting, Shattered Perception
Nothing in green
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Chalice of Life (well, it's worth testing anyway), Grafdigger's Cage
Grim Backwoods, Vault of the Archangel
It's a decent list. Solid amount of cards for a small set.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Thalia is way overrated. Not as good against storm as everyone thinks. The real nuts is cage. Here is my list...
1) Grafdigger's Cage
2) Faithless Looting
3) Strangleroot Geist
Thats it. There is not even enough for a full set of five. But if you pointed a gun at my head I would say...
4) Sorin
5)Chalice of Life (im actually hoping someone will go silly with this in martyr-proc and makes it a competative card)
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Spot-on.
This card is the bane of control. Makes Hokori, Dust Drinker look better.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
#1 Faithless Looting, Will be good in alot of decks and make alot of decks good, and helps with combo.
#2 Tragic Slip, Instant speed 1 B cc, can use it to take out almost any creature ever made! or use it on a bird or something...
#3 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 cc artifact with gy hate, it will be in alot of SB
#4 Sorin Lord of Innistrad, he will be alright, probably overated, wont do as well as lili 2.0 did but might give some new B/W decks to emerge
#5 Deadly Alure, be nice to force something to get blocked, poisen might have a shot again lol? or use it on the bloodghast or similar to try and get rid of anoying stuff. but probs wont see that much play
*Vault of the Archangel might see some use in some pod decks
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
it's not big or flashy, but i can see people running this.
other than that, it's pretty situational. i think Sorin will see a fair amount of play, even if only for a short while, and he'll eventually find a niche in a deck or two.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Modern Fateful Hour could be interesting. Seems gimmicky, but you could at least try running 4x Leyline of Sanctity.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
Grafdigger's Cage doesn't shut down Living End, sadly. It does shut down Melira. Those are really the only two relevant decks.
As for Counterlash, I agree that this card has potential. Don't forget you can counter your own memnite for an emrakul. Not too shabby. Or your own Thoughtseize for an Army of the Damned. Again. Not too shabby. Game-winning? In casual for sure. Competitive? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the rest of the deck.
CG
the main problem with this is that most of these cards are very marginal even if you have met the stipulation for them to be at their best. At their worst they do nothing.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
It depends on how you're evaluating the cards...I think you might be looking at things a bit narrowly.
Taking for example, Strangleroot Geist who you've immediately dismissed as wrose than Tarmogoyf.
If I want a beater that outclasses most bodies, yes this is true, however if my aim is to simply get into the red zone and deal as much damage as possible, I'd probably be on the Geist over 'goyf...more damage, faster and built in resilience to removal which ruins your day if you extend heavy early on.
In practice: a lot of Bant builds have run 0 goyfs...he's seen as too slow for the deck by some pilots. Geist might just tempt them as insurance against those games where you can't Hierarch > Geist > Elspeth and T4 them.
Likewise, some of the cards are clearly powerful...they're just waiting for a home (Thought Scour) or a meta shift (Ray of Revalation)
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
green white aggro leans toward the middle(not a place for little guys)
The only deck that would use it would be some sort of rg sligh, but that would be much worse than Boros and too small for bant sake.
Its all about trumps. Goyf will most likely trump this guy if they are played the same turn. It will also do more damage over the course of the game.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I'm confused about which Geist you're referring to at what time. With the Hierarch-Geist-Elspeth-T4 kill, you probably mean Geist of Saint Traft, right? That guy definitely deals more damage faster than Goyf and has built-in resilience to targeted removal.
Strangleroot Geist has more resilience to board wipes, but it's no Goblin Guide (same power, same Haste, same uselessness once your opponent thumps down a Goyf, but Guide comes down on Turn 1 instead of Strangleroot's Turn 2 and therefore deals more damage than a 3/4 Goyf by Turn 4 while Goyf catches up to Strangleroot by then).
Granted, Traft is one of those rare guys that commands a Wrath of God by himself (the other guy being Thrun, the Last Troll). Since opponents are that afraid of him, that should help you not overextend into sweepers.
Thought Scour may only see fringe play, and may not be good enough for Storm decks, but I would not dismiss it so quickly. It's a cantrip that fuels the graveyard very efficiently. I wouldn't be surprised to see this in a whole new deck type at some point. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's not
"garbage".
Same with Tragic Slip. It might not see play in every deck that wants black removal, but 1 mana to kill your non-Emrakul fatty is REALLY good. There are enough X/1's to make it fine even without Morbid, but if your deck is designed to turn that mechanic on somewhat consistently, you're talking about a very, very efficient removal spell.
Also, the "worse than Goyf" argument for Strangleroot Geist is pretty weak as well. A lot of things are worse than Goyf, but that doesn't make them unplayable. Many times, Goyf is only a 1/2 or a 2/3 on turn 2 anyway, making Geist just as good if not better for an aggro deck. Again, it probably won't be universally adopted, but I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. "Can be run alongside Goyf" is another way to look at this card.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
CG