Is it just me or does it seem like the major thing holding back Modern is the lack of endorsement from SCG. Maybe sub it in for one of the legacy events? The attendance has been dropping for the legacy opens for the last 3 months so why not give Modern a shot? I know the exposure from the opens is what made legacy into what it is today.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I agree wholeheartedly. Pat Chapin even brought it up during last week's SCG Open, whether or not we'd like to see it take the place of Legacy sometimes.
Alternating weekends would be really cool. One weekend do Standard/Legacy, the next do Standard/Modern, etc. Also, having the event be part of the Invitation (in place of Legacy) could help a lot, as well.
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My thought is that, while the two formats can co-exist, if modern takes over Legacy, which SCG has played an enormous role in creating btw, they might lose control of their market and become much more dependent on what Wizards does. SCG has an enormous stock of legacy staples, largely because many of them are on the restricted list. Would be difficult to justify having $20k in duals in your inventory (for example, they have like 100+ tropical islands in stock) if they could just be reprinted at any point.
I don't know the SCG business model, but I would guess the restricted list makes things a lot easier (which, if I remember correctly, is the whole reason the restricted list exists anyway).
Wouldn't surprise me if they adjust their schedules to have all three(standard, legacy and modern), I doubt SCG will do anything to hurt legacy (tis their cash cow), heck if you play legacy, you probably have thought about/gone to a SCG event , my only guess is that this entire schedule was planned/scheduled well before modern was announced (setting up a large event takes time and effort), and they may want to wait a bit, let the perceived notion that the modern meta is in constant flux go away and set one up, modern is still relatively knew and as a format trying to find it's place (the notion that it's legacy-lite isn't that uncommon, least in my area where it's basically EDH>Standard>Legacy>Anything else>modern...bare in mind it's a lot of older players who don't like the regular formats), SCG may not want to expend resources setting it up, only for relatively little wanting to play it/buy singles for it.
the problem with having all three is that there aren't 3 days in a weekend, so they can't have all 3 on a weekend... or they could have legacy on the same day as modern, but that would draw some people away from legacy. or they could have it on the same day as standard, but that would be a hell of a lot more people showing up for Saturday than Sunday.
i agree with prosistheplumber's points and fureak's about how legacy is where the money is at for SCG. they don't want to hurt the format at all, because if they do it will hurt them. that's good for me 'cause i'm somewhat investing in duals. but in any case, i think somehow incorporating modern into their events would be cool. i think the only thing that is keeping them from doing so is the question: how can we do this to better our company to the highest degree? my guess is that they haven't come to a decision on that.
the problem with having all three is that there aren't 3 days in a weekend, so they can't have all 3 on a weekend... or they could have legacy on the same day as modern, but that would draw some people away from legacy. or they could have it on the same day as standard, but that would be a hell of a lot more people showing up for Saturday than Sunday.
i agree with prosistheplumber's points and fureak's about how legacy is where the money is at for SCG. they don't want to hurt the format at all, because if they do it will hurt them. that's good for me 'cause i'm somewhat investing in duals. but in any case, i think somehow incorporating modern into their events would be cool. i think the only thing that is keeping them from doing so is the question: how can we do this to better our company to the highest degree? my guess is that they haven't come to a decision on that.
this money makes the world go around.
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While Legacy is a great format, SCG certainly knows that Modern would draw a bigger crowd.
Do you really think so? I don't see that Modern is more popular in any way than Legacy. As has been pointed out by posters in the Modern forum, the Modern PTQ season - which is always going to attract a given number of aspiring Pro Tour participants - is seeing lower attendance than the last Extended PTQ season. I think this indicates a lot of hesitation among MTG players to commit to Modern. I also see no local tournament support in my area for Modern, despite limited support for Legacy (still a distant second to Standard as far as constructed formats, of course).
This might change once format volatility (from bannings) settles down and the cost barrier of entry might be lowered by reprints.
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Standard Mono-Green Aggro Modern :symb::0mana: Dark Affinity | :symu::symr: UR Breach | :symb::symr: Dark Burn Casual :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Bruna Reanimator (Standard) My LGS is Asgard Games in Houston, TX.
Do you really think so? I don't see that Modern is more popular in any way than Legacy. As has been pointed out by posters in the Modern forum, the Modern PTQ season - which is always going to attract a given number of aspiring Pro Tour participants - is seeing lower attendance than the last Extended PTQ season. I think this indicates a lot of hesitation among MTG players to commit to Modern. I also see no local tournament support in my area for Modern, despite limited support for Legacy (still a distant second to Standard as far as constructed formats, of course).
This might change once format volatility (from bannings) settles down and the cost barrier of entry might be lowered by reprints.
I could be wrong, but the cost of getting into Legacy plus the fact that Modern is already a PTQ format, will catapult modern into popularity. I'm assuming we'll get a modern Pro Tour for the third Tour this year, and that will be enough.
Couple months ago people were saying legacy was so much better than modern. I'm surprised to see these replies. Guess people are getting bored of brainstorm, fow, and turn2 combo kills against nonfow decks.
I don't see a SCG Modern circuit replacing SCG Legacy, although possibly supplementing it. Legacy is the more attractive format from every perspective, except for cost of entry. However, considering that SCG Legacy Opens already draw huge crowds, that is probably not an issue that they are worried about (rather, it is an issue for individual players to worry about).
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
People that have bought in to legacy will continue to play legacy. People that couldn't or wouldn't buy into legacy have same problem with modern. It is expensive and the reprints especially shocklands haven't happened yet therefore it will b the same dynamic until cost of entry is diminished. Unless masses of people realize u can build competive decks without shocks and goyf. Standard players trade in their cards for new standard cards so they keep doing that which keeps them playing standard.
As far as scg goes I wonder what percentage of standard players on Saturday play Sunday and how many legacy players Sunday didn't play on Saturday. If there is sizable enough group that prefer legacy they could have standard and legacy tournaments at the same time. Modern and draft open on Sunday . Could rotate Legacy and Modern days also. Still SCG likely doesn't want to cut into Legacy for now.
Another option is to have a 3 day tournament on memorial and labor day weekend to test it out.
My guess is that SCG may start doing it as the pro-tour season time is allocated to modern and really has people hyped. Yeah the attendance has been dropping for Legacy, but is there any talk or explanation why besides baseless speculation?
I don't see a SCG Modern circuit replacing SCG Legacy, although possibly supplementing it. Legacy is the more attractive format from every perspective, except for cost of entry.
My guess is that SCG may start doing it as the pro-tour season time is allocated to modern and really has people hyped. Yeah the attendance has been dropping for Legacy, but is there any talk or explanation why besides baseless speculation?
it might not have anything to do with the fact that gp's were being help elsewhere the same weekends. I'm sure that had nothing to do with attendance.
I agree completely, Modern is much more easily accessible; I am just now starting and there are multiple choices of decks to play for >50$, Ad Nauseam, Living End, White Weenie w/ Martyr of Sands, Storm, Birthing Pod; It's awesome. I think a lot more people would be able to play at modern opens and so SCG would get more cash, even though the prices of their legacy stock would go down a little I still think it'd be better to do modern.
Again, if you like to play blue or combo (both playing blue with brainstorms etc).
Except for the fact that the best deck in Legacy currently is neither a blue deck nor a combo deck. But I just don't see how SCG could do a Modern open, Legacy is undoubtably more popular so it seems silly to replace one of the Legacy opens with Modern.
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I dont know if Legacy is more popular. Many just cant afford to get into the format at a competitive level. I am not saying Modern is any more competitive for different reasons but SCGs has more or less picked their pony, and that pony is Legacy, and they probably have to ride it to the end. Legacies player pool is limited by the number cards on the reserve list and SCG and Wotc knows it. Either Legacy is going to have to go the route of Vintage and allow proxies or die a slow death. Either way it opens the door for Modern.
Except for the fact that the best deck in Legacy currently is neither a blue deck nor a combo deck. But I just don't see how SCG could do a Modern open, Legacy is undoubtably more popular so it seems silly to replace one of the Legacy opens with Modern.
What deck are you referring to, Maverick? Maverick isn't the best deck in Legacy, and you can tell from the results of the Opens. The best decks in Legacy play Delver + Force + Brainstorm.
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i like the idea of this new format, but i see wizards bannings not very conducive to its grow or fun in the experience. so i don't think scg should do a modern open to help it grow, until wizards straightens out its banning list to see what combos are truly abusive. instead of banning cards just for being popular!
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I dont know if Legacy is more popular. Many just cant afford to get into the format at a competitive level. I am not saying Modern is any more competitive for different reasons but SCGs has more or less picked their pony, and that pony is Legacy, and they probably have to ride it to the end. Legacies player pool is limited by the number cards on the reserve list and SCG and Wotc knows it. Either Legacy is going to have to go the route of Vintage and allow proxies or die a slow death. Either way it opens the door for Modern.
Proxies? I don't think so. There are enough cards out there for legacy to have a decent number of players. The problem is that number can't grow bigger than what it is now, more or less.
Proxies? I don't think so. There are enough cards out there for legacy to have a decent number of players. The problem is that number can't grow bigger than what it is now, more or less.
Without circumventing the reserve list and reprinting cards, the only way Legacy can grow is proxies. How many of those limited cards have been ruined or destroyed? How many are sitting in peoples collections never played or forgotten about? According to some larger shops across America, they believe close to 60% of Legacy and Vintage staples are in the UK and Japan. Add in the damaged or lost cards and that doesnt leave many cards for the American players to use.
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Alternating weekends would be really cool. One weekend do Standard/Legacy, the next do Standard/Modern, etc. Also, having the event be part of the Invitation (in place of Legacy) could help a lot, as well.
I'm sure that they're considered it, and they most likely know that the majority would vote for Modern to replace Legacy in all of their tournaments.
That being said, I'd love to see Modern opens instead of Legacy, but that's only because I play Modern and not Legacy
I don't know the SCG business model, but I would guess the restricted list makes things a lot easier (which, if I remember correctly, is the whole reason the restricted list exists anyway).
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i agree with prosistheplumber's points and fureak's about how legacy is where the money is at for SCG. they don't want to hurt the format at all, because if they do it will hurt them. that's good for me 'cause i'm somewhat investing in duals. but in any case, i think somehow incorporating modern into their events would be cool. i think the only thing that is keeping them from doing so is the question: how can we do this to better our company to the highest degree? my guess is that they haven't come to a decision on that.
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Do you really think so? I don't see that Modern is more popular in any way than Legacy. As has been pointed out by posters in the Modern forum, the Modern PTQ season - which is always going to attract a given number of aspiring Pro Tour participants - is seeing lower attendance than the last Extended PTQ season. I think this indicates a lot of hesitation among MTG players to commit to Modern. I also see no local tournament support in my area for Modern, despite limited support for Legacy (still a distant second to Standard as far as constructed formats, of course).
This might change once format volatility (from bannings) settles down and the cost barrier of entry might be lowered by reprints.
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I could be wrong, but the cost of getting into Legacy plus the fact that Modern is already a PTQ format, will catapult modern into popularity. I'm assuming we'll get a modern Pro Tour for the third Tour this year, and that will be enough.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
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BUG BUG Fish BUG
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GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingAs far as scg goes I wonder what percentage of standard players on Saturday play Sunday and how many legacy players Sunday didn't play on Saturday. If there is sizable enough group that prefer legacy they could have standard and legacy tournaments at the same time. Modern and draft open on Sunday . Could rotate Legacy and Modern days also. Still SCG likely doesn't want to cut into Legacy for now.
Another option is to have a 3 day tournament on memorial and labor day weekend to test it out.
What other perspectives?
it might not have anything to do with the fact that gp's were being help elsewhere the same weekends. I'm sure that had nothing to do with attendance.
Viable archtypes, card pool, banned list, third party support
Except for the fact that the best deck in Legacy currently is neither a blue deck nor a combo deck. But I just don't see how SCG could do a Modern open, Legacy is undoubtably more popular so it seems silly to replace one of the Legacy opens with Modern.
What deck are you referring to, Maverick? Maverick isn't the best deck in Legacy, and you can tell from the results of the Opens. The best decks in Legacy play Delver + Force + Brainstorm.
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Proxies? I don't think so. There are enough cards out there for legacy to have a decent number of players. The problem is that number can't grow bigger than what it is now, more or less.
Without circumventing the reserve list and reprinting cards, the only way Legacy can grow is proxies. How many of those limited cards have been ruined or destroyed? How many are sitting in peoples collections never played or forgotten about? According to some larger shops across America, they believe close to 60% of Legacy and Vintage staples are in the UK and Japan. Add in the damaged or lost cards and that doesnt leave many cards for the American players to use.