i like the idea of this new format, but i see wizards bannings not very conducive to its grow or fun in the experience. so i don't think scg should do a modern open to help it grow, until wizards straightens out its banning list to see what combos are truly abusive. instead of banning cards just for being popular!
A few SCG Opens would give Wizards the hard data needed to make the correct assumptions. Instead of just using entirely MODO stats, there would be more than sufficient data to determine what truly is/isn't out of control.
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
Without circumventing the reserve list and reprinting cards, the only way Legacy can grow is proxies. How many of those limited cards have been ruined or destroyed? How many are sitting in peoples collections never played or forgotten about? According to some larger shops across America, they believe close to 60% of Legacy and Vintage staples are in the UK and Japan. Add in the damaged or lost cards and that doesnt leave many cards for the American players to use.
Wizards doesn't want legacy to grow (well, they say they can't due to the reserved list). That's why they made Modern.
Perspectives such as the following:
- Legacy is probably the most diverse archetype of any constructed format ever, where literally dozens of archetypes have won major tournaments recently and over 50 competitive archetypes exist. You can routinely play an entire day in a major tournament without facing the same archetype. In contrast, relatively few archetypes are competitive in Modern, requiring bannings to balance out the metagame. Hopefully, this will not be necessary in the future.
- Legacy is an extremely interactive format, largely because of Force of Will and Wasteland, which allows for extremely diverse and powerful cards to exist in a metagame without letting them dominate the format. To be fair, I should acknowledge that not all Magic players are interested in an interactive format, especially those who do not like playing around counterspells better than Mana Leak, and for them, Modern may indeed be a better format. (Disclaimer: my favorite archetype is Zoo, so do not dismiss my comments as that of a "blue mage" or "control player".)
- The Legacy metagame is very stable, requiring only four bannings in its history: Flash, Mystical Tutor, Survival, and Misstep. Technically, Imperial Seal and Time Vault were banned, but only immediately after P3K became legal and after Time Vault lost its power level errata. This is amazing in a format with a card pool that stretches back 20 years, many of which were designed in an era where Wizards didn't know how to make balanced cards.
- Legacy is an organic format, where players gravitate because they want to play everything available to them (with a few exceptions) and one which remains healthy because of internal checks and balances. Modern was a format created in reaction to problems with the high cost of entry to Legacy, and one in which balance must be imposed by regular bannings. Moreover, the Modern player base is already complaining about the lack of reprints of staples thus far (its raison d'etre), as well as the frequent bannings messing up their investments. I am not alone in believing that the less "external forces" are necessary to regulate a format, the healthier it is.
- Touching on a previous point, Legacy is a format where players--old veterans and beginning newbies alike--can play all of their favorite cards, stretching from the Alpha revised duals, to the Worldwake powerhouses (Jace and Stoneforge), with very few exceptions. This is unfortunately not the case with Modern. Exactly two cards (Skullclamp, Mental Misstep) that are in Modern-legal sets are banned in Legacy, compared to 29 for Modern. (Legacy's banned list is larger, but contains many of the old design failures--with respect to power level--in the earliest sets, as well as ante and dexterity cards.) Hopefully, Wizards can fix this by deciding to unban a lot of cards (thereby allowing a universally higher power level), or by printing or reprinting "glue cards" like Force of Will, Counterspell, and Daze in conjunction with unbannings that will allow the format to better regulate itself.
I have occasionally served as a playtester for some of my friends who sometimes play Modern, and while I think the format has potential to become a #2 or #3 format for me over the likes of Standard and Extended (when a lot of the logistical issues above get cleaned up), I cannot realistically see how a format so limited in its cardpool and restricted by the necessity of banning overpowered cards can ever match the diversity of Legacy, which is the main reason it appeals to so many. Everyone I have spoken to at local Modern events either plays it as a secondary format in addition to Legacy (their primary), or have told me they play Modern because they are unable to play Legacy (which is very unfortunate, and I try to lend cards/decks to people I trust to alleviate that problem).
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You can argue all you want that Legacy is a "better" format. I used to play a lot of Legacy years ago, but the lack of support was rather annoying. Even now when we have third party tournaments, SCG Opens, and a few Legacy Grand Prix's, Modern is definitely still going to be more popular, just because Wizards has basically made it their "#2" Constructed format, as far as I'm concerned. Just the fact we get way more decklists of Modern decks from Modo and PTQ's and soon Grand Prix's and the Pro Tour, it will continue to grow. Not to mention the bannings (and hopefully a couple choice unbannings) will help the format become even more diverse.
Also, Modern is a pretty sweet format. The fact that it's an eternal format makes buying expensive cards for it a fine investment, barring some reprints. The only truly expensive decks have Tarmogoyfs in them, the rest of the decks are not much more than Standard decks.
What I really want is more Block Constructed support again... But that's an arguement for another thread
Modern isn't an eternal format. Not by my standards, not by WotC's standards, people only think it to be eternal despite eternal formats being the ENTIRE card pool sans banned/restricted cards.
As for modern being 'more popular', modern will be exactly like extended of years past. The only reason people are playing and brewing for modern is because there are pro tour qualifiers for modern and not legacy. The lack of PTQs for legacy is only because of the reserved list, if WotC were to print snow covered duals and make legacy a PTQ format you would never hear of modern again and you wouldn't have people asking you to play modern with them sans a handful who think legacy is the gloomiest format in the world/brainstorm haters like Pein.
As for SCG opens, I'm betting SCG sticks with legacy to the end. They have legacy staples in stock that they want to sell/profit off of and switching legacy for modern makes a lot of their inventory of $50+ cards plummet in value. Only upside for this is if they bought shocklands en masse on the cheap, switched, and watch the price of shocklands triple overnight as they smiled inwardly. Because mark my words, if modern were the 2nd SCG format before WotC did any reprints, people would be *****ing up a storm about the cash needed to get into modern because shocklands would be $50 apiece on the secondary market as speculators and players scooped them up overnight.
Also, if your deck performs decently in modern, wizards will slam down the banhammer on a piece of your deck and you'll be crying. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see faithless looting banned in modern by the end of the year for being too 'degenerate' in storm and such.
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^I agree about SCG trying to hold onto the brand. I just think they might benefit from diversifying their interests.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
What deck are you referring to, Maverick? Maverick isn't the best deck in Legacy, and you can tell from the results of the Opens. The best decks in Legacy play Delver + Force + Brainstorm.
Results disagree with you. Maverick has the most Top 8 finishes. Then UGr Threshold, then Reanimator, and then Blade Control. So it looks like the GW deck is edging out three U/x decks.
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Results disagree with you. Maverick has the most Top 8 finishes. Then UGr Threshold, then Reanimator, and then Blade Control. So it looks like the GW deck is edging out three U/x decks.
Currently it is Maverick (29 tops) followed by RUG tempo (28 tops) with Stoneblade + Reanimator at 19 tops. The ONLY reasons that Maverick is doing well is because it has a decent (55ish?) matchup against the other 3 decks and because it is relatively cheap to build (no blue duals). Maverick has a very bad storm combo + Nic Fit matchup and I do not believe that Maverick will have the most tops in the coming months. Only thing keeping these Storm + Nic Fit decks out are the U/x decks.
Why don't tehyt do it instead of one of the draft opens?
I believe SCG is planning to run Modern side events in addition to the draft side events. Is that what you mean by "draft open", or am I completely out of the loop here?
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Currently it is Maverick (29 tops) followed by RUG tempo (28 tops) with Stoneblade + Reanimator at 19 tops. The ONLY reasons that Maverick is doing well is because it has a decent (55ish?) matchup against the other 3 decks and because it is relatively cheap to build (no blue duals). Maverick has a very bad storm combo + Nic Fit matchup and I do not believe that Maverick will have the most tops in the coming months. Only thing keeping these Storm + Nic Fit decks out are the U/x decks.
which is how a meta is supposed to work. You might see that as broken, but that is how big boy magic is supposed to be. Not just a midrange crap fest like modern is shaping into.
Also it isn't like hate don't exist that maveric can run.... this but they have FoW is a bad argument because they won't always have force of will, and maveric puts them on a pretty tight clock which means they might have to pull the trigger a little early while wading through hate.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Currently it is Maverick (29 tops) followed by RUG tempo (28 tops) with Stoneblade + Reanimator at 19 tops. The ONLY reasons that Maverick is doing well is because it has a decent (55ish?) matchup against the other 3 decks and because it is relatively cheap to build (no blue duals). Maverick has a very bad storm combo + Nic Fit matchup and I do not believe that Maverick will have the most tops in the coming months. Only thing keeping these Storm + Nic Fit decks out are the U/x decks.
So rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper, and paper beats rock... Sounds like the definition of a healthy meta to me.
^I never said I thought the metagame was unhealthy. Just pointing out to Solaran_X and Feaor that the "best deck in Legacy" in a healthy diverse metagame is never the best for long if you consider archetypes using BS + FoW blue decks as diverse, which I am okay with. Maybe they were trying to provide support that Legacy can have all deck types represented whereas Modern is still lacking a tier blue control deck and that this diversity in Legacy contributes to it being more popular?
^I never said I thought the metagame was unhealthy. Just pointing out to Solaran_X and Feaor that the "best deck in Legacy" in a healthy diverse metagame is never the best for long if you consider archetypes using BS + FoW blue decks as diverse, which I am okay with. Maybe they were trying to provide support that Legacy can have all deck types represented whereas Modern is still lacking a tier blue control deck and that this diversity in Legacy contributes to it being more popular?
Sounds like you're trying to lump all decks than run FoW and BS into a single category in an effort to eliminate all the diversity in Legacy to support your position.
That is akin to me saying something like "if you consider archetypes using fetchlands as diverse" or "if you consider archetypes using shocklands as diverse" in regards to Modern.
Just because decks use the same tools does not mean they are even remotely the same. FoW and BS are just a means to the end of the deck - they are not the deck.
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^I never said I thought the metagame was unhealthy. Just pointing out to Solaran_X and Feaor that the "best deck in Legacy" in a healthy diverse metagame is never the best for long if you consider archetypes using BS + FoW blue decks as diverse, which I am okay with. Maybe they were trying to provide support that Legacy can have all deck types represented whereas Modern is still lacking a tier blue control deck and that this diversity in Legacy contributes to it being more popular?
Correct. A good meta is one that is fluid which legacy would be if it had more support. It is hard to get a bead on the meta without a ptq season of 2/3 tournaments(paper at least competitive REL) a week. people fail to realize that control being in the meta not only puts control in the meta, but puts the decks that beat control in the meta. A very wise man once said every action has an equal and opposite reaction; such is true in physics and magic.
This leads to my point after tons of talk. I don't think SCG is going to touch modern with a 10,000,000,000,000,ft pole. It is bad for business especially if it fails. Also legacy has a cult following, but how much modern do people actually thing is going to be played in between seasons? Wotc was fast to attempt to fix extended for this same reason. Attendance was very good during the season and right before the season these forums were hopping. It was viewed as a failure because it wasn't standard because it took a high skill level to play, and it went back a ways. Standard will always be the most popular format, and legacy will always have a better cult following. modern right now has no real identity because there is no more virtual meat left on the bone. Maybe this is why wotc is trying to turn modern into mostly creature based although that will make it fail just the same as an all spell based format.
tl:dr
Legacy is going to have more steady ratings throughout the year, and the possibility of modern failing(by wotc's standards) is quite high. Also didn't SCG have a bet on OE in the OE vs modern horse race?
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Sounds like you're trying to lump all decks than run FoW and BS into a single category in an effort to eliminate all the diversity in Legacy to support your position.
That is akin to me saying something like "if you consider archetypes using fetchlands as diverse" or "if you consider archetypes using shocklands as diverse" in regards to Modern.
Just because decks use the same tools does not mean they are even remotely the same. FoW and BS are just a means to the end of the deck - they are not the deck.
I would like to say again that I consider the decks that run FoW and BS to be distinct and separate. The Legacy metagame is awesome and I enjoy it. I was only trying to qualify my statement for replies such as yours that say that I lump all FoW + BS using decks together. I know that the play decisions + playstyles a RUG tempo pilot makes is completely differently from that of a U/W Stoneblade + Reanimator pilot. I agree that BS + FoW help facilitate or are "just a means to the deck".
Limited tournies move product someone has to buy. Not so much for constructed tournies.
This. They by the packs from wotc at like 2 bucks(or less) a pack then turn around and sell them for 4-5. This is part of the reason why a limited PTQ season exist. It will typically have fewer participants, but it is only format that wotc makes direct money on.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Id be interested to see it too, but not in place of legacy. I love legacy, and modern will never fill that formats roll. there is such an amazing meta in legacy right now, its really becoming better and better as time goes on. anyone complaining about FoW and brainstorm clearly aren't looking at how well NON blue decks have been doing lately. Burn just won and open, maverick is awesome, dredge, belcher, NO, doomsday, pox, lands, goblins, zoo of all variants, every combo you could ever want, dead guy is super fun. Its just an amazing format.
at SCGLA I played in 2 modern for a box, and 1 modern challenge. As well as the standard open, and legacy open. They have action for everyone there. I love watching legacy coverage, its always way more entertaining than standard.
Im pretty fortunate to live and play where I do, there is a tourny every other month for legacy staples or duals, and the months in between for store credit. Thats just 1 shop, there are 4 other shops that host legacy tournies balanced to the other LGS' schedules. Legacy is big in LA.
if moderns competitive deck pool was half the size of legacy, I could see it going further than flavor of the PTQ season.
Without fow (and bs to search for it), I hear losing on turns 1-3 against combo is fun and nice. Then you put your sideboard hate but if you don't draw it in your opening 7 you're... doomed.
This weekend in Richmond, there's a 4 round side event. Maybe they'll use that to judge the popularity of Modern. Problem I see is they scheduled it during probably Round 5-8 in the Standard event.
The problem is that Star City has a gigantic financial investment in Legacy. If they make the slightest move towards Modern replacing Legacy, it will have a negative effect on Legacy card prices, as a big part of the rise in them recently has been due to the SCG circuit making them necessary to gain access to the "softer" of the two days.
Without fow (and bs to search for it), I hear losing on turns 1-3 against combo is fun and nice. Then you put your sideboard hate but if you don't draw it in your opening 7 you're... doomed.
Yeah, I guess that's why Mindbreak trap, spell pierce, thoughtseize, duress, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn cannonist, Green sun's Zenith, Leyline of the void, Leyline of sanctity, true believer, hymn to tourach, cursecatcher, Thalia, Nevermore, Stony silence, Null rod, Meddling mage, rule of law and Red Elemental Blast exist.
I used to play a LOT of Legacy on MTGO. I ran GW maverick, because Forces were $160 each, and you'd have to be a moron to pay that for modo forces. anyway, since force was so expensive, not very many people had them, which meant combo was all over the place...So I prepared for it, and crushed. GW can have a good combo MU if you want it to, which is why I think it's at least top3 decks in legacy, if not the best right now.
Also, most of the cards I mentioned fit into a bunch of other non FoW archtypes, so the arguement of "IF YOU DONT PLAY FOW, YOU JUST DIE TO COMBO' is extremely invalid because a) the strength of control keeps the amount of combo decks that get sleeved up to a tournament down, and B) non blue decks can be made to have favorable combo matchups.
A few SCG Opens would give Wizards the hard data needed to make the correct assumptions. Instead of just using entirely MODO stats, there would be more than sufficient data to determine what truly is/isn't out of control.
Wizards doesn't want legacy to grow (well, they say they can't due to the reserved list). That's why they made Modern.
Perspectives such as the following:
- Legacy is probably the most diverse archetype of any constructed format ever, where literally dozens of archetypes have won major tournaments recently and over 50 competitive archetypes exist. You can routinely play an entire day in a major tournament without facing the same archetype. In contrast, relatively few archetypes are competitive in Modern, requiring bannings to balance out the metagame. Hopefully, this will not be necessary in the future.
- Legacy is an extremely interactive format, largely because of Force of Will and Wasteland, which allows for extremely diverse and powerful cards to exist in a metagame without letting them dominate the format. To be fair, I should acknowledge that not all Magic players are interested in an interactive format, especially those who do not like playing around counterspells better than Mana Leak, and for them, Modern may indeed be a better format. (Disclaimer: my favorite archetype is Zoo, so do not dismiss my comments as that of a "blue mage" or "control player".)
- The Legacy metagame is very stable, requiring only four bannings in its history: Flash, Mystical Tutor, Survival, and Misstep. Technically, Imperial Seal and Time Vault were banned, but only immediately after P3K became legal and after Time Vault lost its power level errata. This is amazing in a format with a card pool that stretches back 20 years, many of which were designed in an era where Wizards didn't know how to make balanced cards.
- Legacy is an organic format, where players gravitate because they want to play everything available to them (with a few exceptions) and one which remains healthy because of internal checks and balances. Modern was a format created in reaction to problems with the high cost of entry to Legacy, and one in which balance must be imposed by regular bannings. Moreover, the Modern player base is already complaining about the lack of reprints of staples thus far (its raison d'etre), as well as the frequent bannings messing up their investments. I am not alone in believing that the less "external forces" are necessary to regulate a format, the healthier it is.
- Touching on a previous point, Legacy is a format where players--old veterans and beginning newbies alike--can play all of their favorite cards, stretching from the Alpha revised duals, to the Worldwake powerhouses (Jace and Stoneforge), with very few exceptions. This is unfortunately not the case with Modern. Exactly two cards (Skullclamp, Mental Misstep) that are in Modern-legal sets are banned in Legacy, compared to 29 for Modern. (Legacy's banned list is larger, but contains many of the old design failures--with respect to power level--in the earliest sets, as well as ante and dexterity cards.) Hopefully, Wizards can fix this by deciding to unban a lot of cards (thereby allowing a universally higher power level), or by printing or reprinting "glue cards" like Force of Will, Counterspell, and Daze in conjunction with unbannings that will allow the format to better regulate itself.
I have occasionally served as a playtester for some of my friends who sometimes play Modern, and while I think the format has potential to become a #2 or #3 format for me over the likes of Standard and Extended (when a lot of the logistical issues above get cleaned up), I cannot realistically see how a format so limited in its cardpool and restricted by the necessity of banning overpowered cards can ever match the diversity of Legacy, which is the main reason it appeals to so many. Everyone I have spoken to at local Modern events either plays it as a secondary format in addition to Legacy (their primary), or have told me they play Modern because they are unable to play Legacy (which is very unfortunate, and I try to lend cards/decks to people I trust to alleviate that problem).
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingAlso, Modern is a pretty sweet format. The fact that it's an eternal format makes buying expensive cards for it a fine investment, barring some reprints. The only truly expensive decks have Tarmogoyfs in them, the rest of the decks are not much more than Standard decks.
What I really want is more Block Constructed support again... But that's an arguement for another thread
As for modern being 'more popular', modern will be exactly like extended of years past. The only reason people are playing and brewing for modern is because there are pro tour qualifiers for modern and not legacy. The lack of PTQs for legacy is only because of the reserved list, if WotC were to print snow covered duals and make legacy a PTQ format you would never hear of modern again and you wouldn't have people asking you to play modern with them sans a handful who think legacy is the gloomiest format in the world/brainstorm haters like Pein.
As for SCG opens, I'm betting SCG sticks with legacy to the end. They have legacy staples in stock that they want to sell/profit off of and switching legacy for modern makes a lot of their inventory of $50+ cards plummet in value. Only upside for this is if they bought shocklands en masse on the cheap, switched, and watch the price of shocklands triple overnight as they smiled inwardly. Because mark my words, if modern were the 2nd SCG format before WotC did any reprints, people would be *****ing up a storm about the cash needed to get into modern because shocklands would be $50 apiece on the secondary market as speculators and players scooped them up overnight.
Also, if your deck performs decently in modern, wizards will slam down the banhammer on a piece of your deck and you'll be crying. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see faithless looting banned in modern by the end of the year for being too 'degenerate' in storm and such.
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http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy
Results disagree with you. Maverick has the most Top 8 finishes. Then UGr Threshold, then Reanimator, and then Blade Control. So it looks like the GW deck is edging out three U/x decks.
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U Urza Stompy
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Sai, Master Thopterist
Agreed. Drafts are fun to do, but they are not the best to watch coverage of.
Either that, or they can do Standard on Friday, Modern on Saturday, and Legacy on Sunday.
Currently it is Maverick (29 tops) followed by RUG tempo (28 tops) with Stoneblade + Reanimator at 19 tops. The ONLY reasons that Maverick is doing well is because it has a decent (55ish?) matchup against the other 3 decks and because it is relatively cheap to build (no blue duals). Maverick has a very bad storm combo + Nic Fit matchup and I do not believe that Maverick will have the most tops in the coming months. Only thing keeping these Storm + Nic Fit decks out are the U/x decks.
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I believe SCG is planning to run Modern side events in addition to the draft side events. Is that what you mean by "draft open", or am I completely out of the loop here?
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the Buylistingwhich is how a meta is supposed to work. You might see that as broken, but that is how big boy magic is supposed to be. Not just a midrange crap fest like modern is shaping into.
Also it isn't like hate don't exist that maveric can run.... this but they have FoW is a bad argument because they won't always have force of will, and maveric puts them on a pretty tight clock which means they might have to pull the trigger a little early while wading through hate.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
So rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper, and paper beats rock... Sounds like the definition of a healthy meta to me.
Legacy
Control
Miracles
All flavors of Stoneblade
Aggro
Grixis Delver
UR Delver
Burn
Combo
Dredge
TES/ANT
UR & UB Reanimator
Belcher
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Sounds like you're trying to lump all decks than run FoW and BS into a single category in an effort to eliminate all the diversity in Legacy to support your position.
That is akin to me saying something like "if you consider archetypes using fetchlands as diverse" or "if you consider archetypes using shocklands as diverse" in regards to Modern.
Just because decks use the same tools does not mean they are even remotely the same. FoW and BS are just a means to the end of the deck - they are not the deck.
Correct. A good meta is one that is fluid which legacy would be if it had more support. It is hard to get a bead on the meta without a ptq season of 2/3 tournaments(paper at least competitive REL) a week. people fail to realize that control being in the meta not only puts control in the meta, but puts the decks that beat control in the meta. A very wise man once said every action has an equal and opposite reaction; such is true in physics and magic.
This leads to my point after tons of talk. I don't think SCG is going to touch modern with a 10,000,000,000,000,ft pole. It is bad for business especially if it fails. Also legacy has a cult following, but how much modern do people actually thing is going to be played in between seasons? Wotc was fast to attempt to fix extended for this same reason. Attendance was very good during the season and right before the season these forums were hopping. It was viewed as a failure because it wasn't standard because it took a high skill level to play, and it went back a ways. Standard will always be the most popular format, and legacy will always have a better cult following. modern right now has no real identity because there is no more virtual meat left on the bone. Maybe this is why wotc is trying to turn modern into mostly creature based although that will make it fail just the same as an all spell based format.
tl:dr
Legacy is going to have more steady ratings throughout the year, and the possibility of modern failing(by wotc's standards) is quite high. Also didn't SCG have a bet on OE in the OE vs modern horse race?
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I would like to say again that I consider the decks that run FoW and BS to be distinct and separate. The Legacy metagame is awesome and I enjoy it. I was only trying to qualify my statement for replies such as yours that say that I lump all FoW + BS using decks together. I know that the play decisions + playstyles a RUG tempo pilot makes is completely differently from that of a U/W Stoneblade + Reanimator pilot. I agree that BS + FoW help facilitate or are "just a means to the deck".
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Limited tournies move product someone has to buy. Not so much for constructed tournies.
This. They by the packs from wotc at like 2 bucks(or less) a pack then turn around and sell them for 4-5. This is part of the reason why a limited PTQ season exist. It will typically have fewer participants, but it is only format that wotc makes direct money on.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
at SCGLA I played in 2 modern for a box, and 1 modern challenge. As well as the standard open, and legacy open. They have action for everyone there. I love watching legacy coverage, its always way more entertaining than standard.
Im pretty fortunate to live and play where I do, there is a tourny every other month for legacy staples or duals, and the months in between for store credit. Thats just 1 shop, there are 4 other shops that host legacy tournies balanced to the other LGS' schedules. Legacy is big in LA.
if moderns competitive deck pool was half the size of legacy, I could see it going further than flavor of the PTQ season.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Yeah, I guess that's why Mindbreak trap, spell pierce, thoughtseize, duress, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn cannonist, Green sun's Zenith, Leyline of the void, Leyline of sanctity, true believer, hymn to tourach, cursecatcher, Thalia, Nevermore, Stony silence, Null rod, Meddling mage, rule of law and Red Elemental Blast exist.
I used to play a LOT of Legacy on MTGO. I ran GW maverick, because Forces were $160 each, and you'd have to be a moron to pay that for modo forces. anyway, since force was so expensive, not very many people had them, which meant combo was all over the place...So I prepared for it, and crushed. GW can have a good combo MU if you want it to, which is why I think it's at least top3 decks in legacy, if not the best right now.
Also, most of the cards I mentioned fit into a bunch of other non FoW archtypes, so the arguement of "IF YOU DONT PLAY FOW, YOU JUST DIE TO COMBO' is extremely invalid because a) the strength of control keeps the amount of combo decks that get sleeved up to a tournament down, and B) non blue decks can be made to have favorable combo matchups.