Quote from LegitKaronaJust a brief interjection. Someone claimed storm Gifts wasn't control, because it didn't have enough answers in it. Just to make sure, you have to include the 4 Merchant Scrolls in my list as defensive cards, as they're terrible cards if you don't often grab countermagic or answers with them, and you should include Gifts itself, which generally can represent 2 answer cards or draw spells on its own, and it adds up very quickly. The deck can grind the game out with the best of them. I'm not claiming it's
Quote from LegitKaronaIt's not really control. But it's a lot more controlling than the basic lists look.
Take my own list:
In it, there are 8 pieces of countermagic, 4 Mass Removal Spells, and 5 Tutors for those cards, discounting Gifts itself. But where a more basic control deck relies on getting the answers and using them to buy time until it can outdraw the opponent and slam giant threats, these decks use tutors to add inherent versatility, by allowing you to always have the right answer at the right time. At the same time, those tutors can later be used offensively, to set up a devastating, nigh-unstoppable combo finish.
Now, look at the number of finishers the decks play. Generally, that's 1-3. The Gifts Storm decks aren't planning on going all-in on a combo. They want to grind out the game, then use the Gifts/Past in Flames card advantage engine, in many ways one of the most powerful draw engines in modern if not the most powerful, to generate a massive game swing, often winning on the spot. The Storm kill is in many ways just incidental, the most effective win con available with that engine. But if you were to take my gifts list and try to pilot it as an all-in storm combo deck, you should be ready to lose. A lot. The entire plan of the deck is to grind the opponent out with a strong card advantage engine and dedicated answers, then finish with an immense Past in Flames. That sounds like a control deck to me, of a kind. It's just replaced creature finishers with spell finishers.
True, it's not a pure control deck. It's a hybrid, a control-combo deck, one fully capable of grinding the game out and of killing the opponent on turn 4. You don't do it justice by not seeing it as such.
I don't mean to insult you: I just want to point out that a lot of decks are to complex to be labelled as "just combo" or "just control" or "just aggro". Hybridization is becoming the norm, and we have to go with it.
Quote from PeinEhh I didn't say it isn't, in fact I've been saying wall of omens is the card control players should be playing instead of moaning because control is not good enough.
Quote from CipherThank you for mentoring us on an archetype you admittedly never play...
Wall of Omens doesn't have flying. It only blocks a third of the creatures outside the jund matchup. I run 4 in a Solar Flare list I made and Jund is the only matchup that it doesn't just cycle for 2 mana. Though I suppose speed-bumping Tarmogoyf counts for something.
Quote from unkyunkI understand you're not trying to insult me. Im not i-never-smile here. I don't see disagreement as a personal insult. So you don't have to worry about insulting me.
The thing is. How do you plan on "dragging out the game" when you have to tutor for most of your answers? I guess I don't consider "controllish" to be "control". But I do agree it is more "controllish" than others
Another problem I have with saying that its control in this meta, it that it has never really put up serious numbers. Even when I see Gifts lists in places as lowly as Daily Events they are usually similar to the semi-successful GP Lincoln list: the all-in version of Gifts storm. I've never seen the "controllish" version of storm do well in high level events. Now, that might be due to the fact that its new.