Also, what do you do if they go first and are able to drop a turn 1 bird or heiarch? Sure, we can Bolt em later, but then that messes up your curve. I say Gutshot.
Also, I think the lists that can allow it (mana wise) should run Ghost Quarter. I was going to suggest Tech Edge, but they will NEVER get to 4 lands, lol.
Also, Primal Command seems as good as Plow Under, because it can do other things as well.
To be fair, Sowing Salt only hits nonbasics, while Splinter + Liquimetal Coating can hit basic lands. It's still probably not worth the effort, though.
I think Sowing Salt was worth the mention though, even if if did just come from somebody correcting somebody else. I mean, we probably have a good matchup against 12post anyway, but Sowing Salt would definately put the nail in their coffin.
Rules question: Can I Sowing Salt a Cloudpost with a Seas Claim stuck on it?
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so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
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Rules question: Can I Sowing Salt a Cloudpost with a Seas Claim stuck on it?
I'm going to extrapolate from a Blood Moon ruling here. The land retains its "non-basicness", so it is a legal target for sowing salt. BUT you won't be removing cloudposts from the game (apart from the targeted one), the sowing salt will find all Islands in that player's hand and deck and remove them.
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This is what I have been toying with since I have seen a lot of 12 Post and Combo decks coming out in the modern dailies.
Splinter Twin seems to hurt and the only reliable way to kill them is to either beat them to their combo with a land destruction spell or to side in Dismembers.
I would like to replace the Shard Phoenix with a fatty flyer with haste but the ability for shard phoenix to dodge exiling effects is pretty nice. I would love if Rorix was legal and his little brother dies to most burn =/
Ghostfire is in the sideboard in case Mono-White is around at all, I would hate to just count that up as an auto loss.
The burn spells are in there mostly to stall zoo long enough to start destroying some lands.
So I was just getting ready to post my BGW land destruction deck I used to play in Legacy, but then I realized that Vindicate is not legal is Modern. Woe is me
I'm going to extrapolate from a Blood Moon ruling here. The land retains its "non-basicness", so it is a legal target for sowing salt. BUT you won't be removing cloudposts from the game (apart from the targeted one), the sowing salt will find all Islands in that player's hand and deck and remove them.
When I originally read this I was just like "oh, okay... thats kinda meh."
I re-read it just now and "HOLY SLFHAIFHANKDLGNHLGGHJIZH!!!!"
:DDD Mono-blue 12-post runs Islands, does it not? This is pretty damn cool.
BTW, what about Ghost Quarter/Tech Edge-ing a land, then Surgical Extractioning all copies of it? Seems dope.
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so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
I'm going to extrapolate from a Blood Moon ruling here. The land retains its "non-basicness", so it is a legal target for sowing salt. BUT you won't be removing cloudposts from the game (apart from the targeted one), the sowing salt will find all Islands in that player's hand and deck and remove them.
This is not entirely incorrect. The land is a legal target for Sowing Salt, as Blood Moon does not add the 'Basic' supertype to the card. But the land would still be named "Cloudpost" even if its supertype-type is "Land - Mountain". Sowing Salt removes cards with the same name, so you would find copies of Cloudpost and exile them whether it was enchanted with Spreading Seas or not.
This is not entirely incorrect. The land is a legal target for Sowing Salt, as Blood Moon does not add the 'Basic' supertype to the card. But the land would still be named "Cloudpost" even if its supertype-type is "Land - Mountain". Sowing Salt removes cards with the same name, so you would find copies of Cloudpost and exile them whether it was enchanted with Spreading Seas or not.
Oh... either way, It would still do what I want, lol.
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so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
I had been trying to make LD work in Standard with a deck I call Chandestruction. Basically LD and copying with Chandra's -2 (as mentioned earlier in this thread).
In standard it's too slow with the 4cc LD spells. So today I thought "Oh crap, I wonder what's available in Modern." So I put a RG version of the deck together with the good 3cc LD spells Stone Rain, Molten Rain, etc.
T1>Birds
T2>Stone Rain/Molten Rain
T3>Chandra
Then just win somehow. After looking at these lists I think I'm missing some creatures. Mine was too heavy in Land Destruction itself.
I played one game vs that Mono-Blue Infect deck from Philly, he won, then quit (I guess he didn't think it was a "real" deck or just hated LD). I played against Merfolk and lost 2-0, but both games were close (and at that point didn't have any artifact hate in my sideboard for Vials). Then I played Melira Combo and won 2-1.
I like Cryoclasm vs any white/blue decks for some more early damage.
Also, copying a Seismic Spike with Chandra into another LD spell if you need it or another Chandra if you need it is good. I also like Roiling Terrain as a finisher.
I think I need to add Slime or Finks. More testing to come (which is hard because people quit a lot on Cockatrice).
EDIT- Ok I just played one match this morning versus a green post deck which I won 2-1. First game got the turn 2 rain in, turn 3 Chandra, and turn 4 Seismic Spike copied and then into another spike. Nothing for him to do after that. Game 2 I was without Birds and he was on the play which meant he got a turn 3 Garruk with turn 2 explore and then he Into the Breach'd a Ulamog into play, couldn't win after that. Game 3 was more like the first one, I had to wait until turn 3 for Stone Rain, but then he was playing Dryad Arbor which meant my turn 4 Chandra also acted as a LD spell herself. Game over after that.
The sideboard is ehh. Definitely like Smash and Arc Trail (though it needs more testing against aggro decks). Thinking Wreak Havoc against control decks, but there doesn't seem to be any out there. The post guy I just played suggested Mindbreak Trap for the combo decks. Thoughts?
It's likely to be too slow with a low overall power level, but I want to see what you all think.
I used to play LD/Ponza during both Kamigawa/Ravnica and RAvnica/TS T2 -- and the 'key' to success is actually to break lands on turn two, turn three is often times too slow.
Yeah, I agree. Most games with a Turn 2 Stone Rain/Molten Rain and you win. Not having a Birds on T1 to make that happen leads to games that are still winnable, but much longer/harder to do so.
I was thinking about adding 2 Llanowar Elves to make sure I have a Birds or Llanowar in the opening hand all the time, but then you have to have two duals to make a Molten Rain work.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I cant imagine land destruction not being completely out of the question. Cutting down Zoo's threats seems good. The only real problem is Darksteel Citadel in Affinity. We could cut down options considerably from turn 2 with a little mana ramp.
Then add lightning bolt and a few other cards that are good for the meta (Blood Moon seems awesome since you are already hurting their mana base) and some creatures worth ramping into (Inferno Titan and Wurmcoil Engine dont seem like bad choices) and you got yourself a deck.
That deck is really well made. I like seeing Stone Rain seeing play.
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Also, what do you do if they go first and are able to drop a turn 1 bird or heiarch? Sure, we can Bolt em later, but then that messes up your curve. I say Gutshot.
Also, I think the lists that can allow it (mana wise) should run Ghost Quarter. I was going to suggest Tech Edge, but they will NEVER get to 4 lands, lol.
Also, Primal Command seems as good as Plow Under, because it can do other things as well.
@ in thepants: Your'e thinking of Rain of Tears.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Wreak Havoc.
Always sucked getting your land destruction Mana Leaked- there's not much that Mono-U 12Post deck can do against it!
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It is called sowing salt. lol
To be fair, Sowing Salt only hits nonbasics, while Splinter + Liquimetal Coating can hit basic lands. It's still probably not worth the effort, though.
Rules question: Can I Sowing Salt a Cloudpost with a Seas Claim stuck on it?
About Mindslaver rulings:
Adding artifact type to the land doesn't take away it's basic type iirc. Sowing Salt is a good backup to Splinter in this case but not a better choice. The liquimetal coating also opens up to Tel-Jilad Justice, Krosan Grip, ect target anything.
I'm going to extrapolate from a Blood Moon ruling here. The land retains its "non-basicness", so it is a legal target for sowing salt. BUT you won't be removing cloudposts from the game (apart from the targeted one), the sowing salt will find all Islands in that player's hand and deck and remove them.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
4x Stone Rain
4x Molten Rain
4x Roiling Terrain
4x Avalanche Riders
4x Fulminator Mage
Kill Spell
4x Shard Phoenix
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Incinerate
Planeswalker
2x Chandra, The Firebrand
Land
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Ghitu Encampment
14x Mountain
4x Dismember
3x Sowing Salt
4x Ghostfire
4x Relic of Progenitus
This is what I have been toying with since I have seen a lot of 12 Post and Combo decks coming out in the modern dailies.
Splinter Twin seems to hurt and the only reliable way to kill them is to either beat them to their combo with a land destruction spell or to side in Dismembers.
I would like to replace the Shard Phoenix with a fatty flyer with haste but the ability for shard phoenix to dodge exiling effects is pretty nice. I would love if Rorix was legal and his little brother dies to most burn =/
Ghostfire is in the sideboard in case Mono-White is around at all, I would hate to just count that up as an auto loss.
The burn spells are in there mostly to stall zoo long enough to start destroying some lands.
What do you all think?
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When I originally read this I was just like "oh, okay... thats kinda meh."
I re-read it just now and "HOLY SLFHAIFHANKDLGNHLGGHJIZH!!!!"
:DDD Mono-blue 12-post runs Islands, does it not? This is pretty damn cool.
BTW, what about Ghost Quarter/Tech Edge-ing a land, then Surgical Extractioning all copies of it? Seems dope.
About Mindslaver rulings:
This is not entirely incorrect. The land is a legal target for Sowing Salt, as Blood Moon does not add the 'Basic' supertype to the card. But the land would still be named "Cloudpost" even if its supertype-type is "Land - Mountain". Sowing Salt removes cards with the same name, so you would find copies of Cloudpost and exile them whether it was enchanted with Spreading Seas or not.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Oh... either way, It would still do what I want, lol.
About Mindslaver rulings:
In standard it's too slow with the 4cc LD spells. So today I thought "Oh crap, I wonder what's available in Modern." So I put a RG version of the deck together with the good 3cc LD spells Stone Rain, Molten Rain, etc.
T1>Birds
T2>Stone Rain/Molten Rain
T3>Chandra
Then just win somehow. After looking at these lists I think I'm missing some creatures. Mine was too heavy in Land Destruction itself.
I played one game vs that Mono-Blue Infect deck from Philly, he won, then quit (I guess he didn't think it was a "real" deck or just hated LD). I played against Merfolk and lost 2-0, but both games were close (and at that point didn't have any artifact hate in my sideboard for Vials). Then I played Melira Combo and won 2-1.
I like Cryoclasm vs any white/blue decks for some more early damage.
Also, copying a Seismic Spike with Chandra into another LD spell if you need it or another Chandra if you need it is good. I also like Roiling Terrain as a finisher.
I think I need to add Slime or Finks. More testing to come (which is hard because people quit a lot on Cockatrice).
EDIT- Ok I just played one match this morning versus a green post deck which I won 2-1. First game got the turn 2 rain in, turn 3 Chandra, and turn 4 Seismic Spike copied and then into another spike. Nothing for him to do after that. Game 2 I was without Birds and he was on the play which meant he got a turn 3 Garruk with turn 2 explore and then he Into the Breach'd a Ulamog into play, couldn't win after that. Game 3 was more like the first one, I had to wait until turn 3 for Stone Rain, but then he was playing Dryad Arbor which meant my turn 4 Chandra also acted as a LD spell herself. Game over after that.
Here's my list:
2 Acidic Slime
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
3 Roiling Terrain
3 Seismic Spike
1 Volt Charge
4 Explore
5 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Raging Ravine
2 Dismember
2 Smash to Smithereens
4 Arc Trail
3 Cryoclasm
4 Wreak Havoc
I know, the Volt Charge is probably bad. We'll see. Maybe one more Acidic Slime, otherwise my offense comes from the Raging Ravines.
The sideboard is ehh. Definitely like Smash and Arc Trail (though it needs more testing against aggro decks). Thinking Wreak Havoc against control decks, but there doesn't seem to be any out there. The post guy I just played suggested Mindbreak Trap for the combo decks. Thoughts?
I used to play LD/Ponza during both Kamigawa/Ravnica and RAvnica/TS T2 -- and the 'key' to success is actually to break lands on turn two, turn three is often times too slow.
I was thinking about adding 2 Llanowar Elves to make sure I have a Birds or Llanowar in the opening hand all the time, but then you have to have two duals to make a Molten Rain work.
Well, to start, Jace the Mind Sculptor is banned.
So that opens at least 3 slots.
turn 1: Birds of Paradise or Wild Cantor
turn 2: Stone Rain or Molten Rain
Then add lightning bolt and a few other cards that are good for the meta (Blood Moon seems awesome since you are already hurting their mana base) and some creatures worth ramping into (Inferno Titan and Wurmcoil Engine dont seem like bad choices) and you got yourself a deck.
edit: totally forgot Deus of Calamity
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Vendalken Plotter + Contested War Zone.
Play the plotter with Warzone and now oyur opponent is left with weak option for mana and one that doesn't stay so often.
There is also Shifting Borders which works nicely with this and I believe Annex is still around.
I would have Invisible Stalker as a means to activate the warzones and steal them back consistently.
I think the deck would benefit greatly from a little bit of development but I just wanted to post some thoughts.
3-1 LD deck from yesterday.
That deck is really well made. I like seeing Stone Rain seeing play.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77