this is my curiousity, how many people would be for making the commander and planechase cards legal for modern. (examples being mostly allowing Scavenging Ooze to Trash goyf decks.) But also allowing things like Minds Aglow and Chaos Warp. These cards being legal in the format
along with the future cards like the UG-cascade Bear being spoiled recently from PCH2
could single-handedly create entire new decks and archetypes (as well as shaking up the meta)
So who would be for it, and Why?
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
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They don't add PC and Commander cards to Modern because they reprint cards like Brainstorm in those decks. You allow them, and you'll have a larger problem then the stupid combo that bear will cause.
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Top Control: The only pure lockdown deck in Modern.
I said no, only because there is no easy way to differentiate between the new cards and the old cards. If it was just the new sure but otherwise, I'd rather not have brainstorm and windfall in the format.
It should obviously be for the brand new cards and not the old reprints. It's a total yes if so.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
that's true, i didn't clarify it to be only "new" printed cards, so that's my mistake, in this example Sol ring and the like are not modern legal. so only the new cards, and cards with the TSB symbol are modern legal.
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
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I am torn on this one. Obviously I would, and have, argued for the addition of seigniorial Commander cards being Modern legal, but I am not as sure. MaRo's position is that he does not want to be restrained by complex interactions with existing cards when these sets are created, and does not want to be concerned with how they might screw up Modern (or Standard for that matter). Legacy and Vintage are not a concern for design, as they are perfectly comfortable banning at will with eternal formats, but they are more conservative about banings in the non-eternal formats. I think I would rather they made these sets the best they can be internally, and that means that not all the original cards will be balanced for Modern.
I am torn on this one. Obviously I would, and have, argued for the addition of seigniorial Commander cards being Modern legal, but I am not as sure. MaRo's position is that he does not want to be restrained by complex interactions with existing cards when these sets are created, and does not want to be concerned with how they might screw up Modern (or Standard for that matter). Legacy and Vintage are not a concern for design, as they are perfectly comfortable banning at will with eternal formats, but they are more conservative about banings in the non-eternal formats. I think I would rather they made these sets the best they can be internally, and that means that not all the original cards will be balanced for Modern.
this is what bugs me, they say modern is an eternal format (because it never rotates) and yet they argue that the cards like scavenging ooze or Chaos Warp or Celestial Force and Soul Snare are bad and would screw up the formats, but really the only thing these new cards would do to modern is shake it up, there is nothing outright Broken in the new cards from teh commander sets (or even PCH2) because they're designing for EDH mostly (since it's now some sort of posterboy for designing magic) So i'm all for the actual New cards (nothing like Sol Ring or Brainstorm, ect) being modern legal. Granted then the only problem is differenciating the two (a new player asks why Chaos warp is legal when Sol ring isn't (because they have the same set symbol and are both in the modern border) But new players dont often jump straight into competitive magic so this isn't a serious problem.
As far as i'm concerned, they just did a blanket clause on these sets, but still say they're "eternal legal" but apparently dont count Modern as an eternal format (which it is)
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
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As far as i'm concerned, they just did a blanket clause on these sets, but still say they're "eternal legal" but apparently dont count Modern as an eternal format (which it is)
No, Modern is not an Eternal format. From the Wiki:
Eternal formats are DCI tournament formats which allow cards from all Magic: The Gathering sets with the standard card back and black or white borders. (Unglued and Unhinged have silver borders and are therefore not included.)
The two eternal formats are Vintage, and Legacy.
Many people assumed that Eternal meant "sets that do not rotate", but that is not the definition that wizards intended.
I agree that there is nothing busted in Commander that would mess with Modern, but I do not want future special products to have to fit in that mold to the detriment of their internal playability.
a) Promo-type cards are problematic to acquire. (Just look at the Van Cleef mess in WoW's TCG) When other games have made them legal in Standard-type formats, it's always caused issues.
b) There's no distinction between the "new" Commander cards and the "old" ones for new players. If one symbol is legal from a set, all should be legal. (Yes, Duel Decks complicate this, but we don't need another exception.)
Scavenging Ooze should simply have been in Inn block. Chaos warp would be a fine standard card as well. What else would you want, Mimeoplasm, Edric or Ruhan?
The commanders would be sweet to have, although brainstorm and sol ring would make things pretty unbalanced. Scavenging ooze should get a print in a set though. That thing is awesome.
I think we're all pretty much saying "I wish they'd print Scavenging Ooze and Chaos Warp in Standard." Most of the rest of the cards are meh, except maybe Edric.
I believe all cards released should be immediatly put into standard and modern.
Let the format sort itself out and ban where needed but, don't make products that are for the most part, completely unplayable outside the kitchen table
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Current Decks
Standard BEtched Champion/InfectB WSoilders/knightsW WUVenser SplicerWU RRDWR GFeed the Pack comboG WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH GEzuri, Elf OverrunG BGeth, GraverobberB UThada Adel, ThiefU RUrabrask, Big RedR WElesh Norn, CrusadeW WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
I think the format is stable enough that a few broader, more interesting cards could totally be integrated without destroying everything. We already have a pretty decently large banlist, I'd rather see riskier elements added with more bans, if necessary. (I was first heavily into Magic around Urza block; who cares if 6 cards need banning from a format?)
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UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner // (W/U)(W/U)(W/U) Grand Arbiter Augustin IV // RRR Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker // (R/G)(R/G)(R/G) Wort, the Raidmother // URG Riku of Two Reflections // RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
I don't think a non-undead scavenger really fits the set. But they should still print it in another set eventually. Same goes for Chaos Warp. But cards like Brainstorm, Sol Ring, Windfall etc. are a huge no.
They had Predator Ooze, and that one other enchantment that made Oozes. It would've been fine.
I'm holding out for SO in the M13 core set, or perhaps as sort of a "Golgari" card in RTR.
The problem is that there is no defined way to differentiate cards that are new from Commander from the cards that are reprints.
If Wizards said that only cards from Core Sets that were not reprints should be legal in Modern, we'd all be scratching our heads and many players would have to reference multiple cards to make sure they were legal when building decks. If Wizards said the same thing about new cards from Commander and Planechase, the same problem would arise.
I doubt it... I don't think wizards realized ooze was anything special when they printed it, and they work on sets like a few years in advance. M13 was most likely already finalized by the time SO had made it big in legacy.
So who would be for it, and Why?
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I'd still love to see scavenging ooze in modern, and flametongue kavu too, miss him so much
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Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
this is what bugs me, they say modern is an eternal format (because it never rotates) and yet they argue that the cards like scavenging ooze or Chaos Warp or Celestial Force and Soul Snare are bad and would screw up the formats, but really the only thing these new cards would do to modern is shake it up, there is nothing outright Broken in the new cards from teh commander sets (or even PCH2) because they're designing for EDH mostly (since it's now some sort of posterboy for designing magic) So i'm all for the actual New cards (nothing like Sol Ring or Brainstorm, ect) being modern legal. Granted then the only problem is differenciating the two (a new player asks why Chaos warp is legal when Sol ring isn't (because they have the same set symbol and are both in the modern border) But new players dont often jump straight into competitive magic so this isn't a serious problem.
As far as i'm concerned, they just did a blanket clause on these sets, but still say they're "eternal legal" but apparently dont count Modern as an eternal format (which it is)
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
Many people assumed that Eternal meant "sets that do not rotate", but that is not the definition that wizards intended.
I agree that there is nothing busted in Commander that would mess with Modern, but I do not want future special products to have to fit in that mold to the detriment of their internal playability.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
a) Promo-type cards are problematic to acquire. (Just look at the Van Cleef mess in WoW's TCG) When other games have made them legal in Standard-type formats, it's always caused issues.
b) There's no distinction between the "new" Commander cards and the "old" ones for new players. If one symbol is legal from a set, all should be legal. (Yes, Duel Decks complicate this, but we don't need another exception.)
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
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Let the format sort itself out and ban where needed but, don't make products that are for the most part, completely unplayable outside the kitchen table
BEtched Champion/InfectB
WSoilders/knightsW
WUVenser SplicerWU
RRDWR
GFeed the Pack comboG
WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH
GEzuri, Elf OverrunG
BGeth, GraverobberB
UThada Adel, ThiefU
RUrabrask, Big RedR
WElesh Norn, CrusadeW
WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
Extended
WGElvesWG
Legacy
RGoblinsR
UBGFariesUBG
UBGRaffinityUBG
They had Predator Ooze, and that one other enchantment that made Oozes. It would've been fine.
I'm holding out for SO in the M13 core set, or perhaps as sort of a "Golgari" card in RTR.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
...hopefully.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
If Wizards said that only cards from Core Sets that were not reprints should be legal in Modern, we'd all be scratching our heads and many players would have to reference multiple cards to make sure they were legal when building decks. If Wizards said the same thing about new cards from Commander and Planechase, the same problem would arise.
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Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
but i would love to see SO reprinted, so i can take care of some pesky cards...
I doubt it... I don't think wizards realized ooze was anything special when they printed it, and they work on sets like a few years in advance. M13 was most likely already finalized by the time SO had made it big in legacy.