Was just having this discussion with a few tournament going friends and many of them argued that Modern is essentially a tournament-only format with little to no support at the local level. While I can't say I agree, I think there is a lot more Wizards can do to support the format.
Extended was already somewhat of a step-child format and while Modern is an improvement (IMO) it still seems to hit at an odd audience. A lot of the Magic playing elites and high rollers will be playing Legacy. The remaining folks with the poorer but still competitive magic players will be sticking it out in Standard.
Modern seems to be a no man's land in terms of player base. Personally, I love the availability of an eternal format that can be supported by way of reprints but a format needs more than reprints to survive.
Modern has seen lots of action online but seems to have far less enthusiasm in brick and mortar magic shops. Sure, it appears on the PT but where are the local/regional tournaments? I have 6 shops in my metro area and NONE of them have touched Modern in terms of a competitive setting (even FNM). You can only play casually, at best - there simply isn't enough interest.
Is there a way to fix this? Now that the ban list seems to have stabilized, do you think Wizards will make more of an effort to promote Modern? Or will it just replace Extended as being "that other format?" Do you think reprinting staples (Ravnica lands) will help or does there need to be more of a push in some other direction (ala events or promotions/game days)?
I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
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Was just having this discussion with a few tournament going friends and many of them argued that Modern is essentially a tournament-only format with little to no support at the local level. While I can't say I agree, I think there is a lot more Wizards can do to support the format.
Extended was already somewhat of a step-child format and while Modern is an improvement (IMO) it still seems to hit at an odd audience. A lot of the Magic playing elites and high rollers will be playing Legacy. The remaining folks with the poorer but still competitive magic players will be sticking it out in Standard.
Modern seems to be a no man's land in terms of player base. Personally, I love the availability of an eternal format that can be supported by way of reprints but a format needs more than reprints to survive.
Modern has seen lots of action online but seems to have far less enthusiasm in brick and mortar magic shops. Sure, it appears on the PT but where are the local/regional tournaments? I have 6 shops in my metro area and NONE of them have touched Modern in terms of a competitive setting (even FNM). You can only play casually, at best - there simply isn't enough interest.
Is there a way to fix this? Now that the ban list seems to have stabilized, do you think Wizards will make more of an effort to promote Modern? Or will it just replace Extended as being "that other format?" Do you think reprinting staples (Ravnica lands) will help or does there need to be more of a push in some other direction (ala events or promotions/game days)?
I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
I totally agree. Thats why I started up modern online. But I think if more players asked for it in their local store would actually do it. the more players demand it, the more it will get bigger.
I think the best thing wizards could do to support it, is make it an fmn thing.
It seems like a vicious feedback loop though. Nobody wants to invest in Modern because nobody plays it. Nobody plays it because nobody wants to invest in it.
I think providing consistent EVENT support from Wizards at the local level would go a long way towards helping it. If people won't come out for Goyfs, maybe theyll come out for points/sanctioned events AND Goyfs
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At the moment this is exactly what is happening in my area, after the initial euphoria, the interest in Modern seems to have die down, those who are in legacy continue to stay invested in legacy, those who are sick of the cost of Standard eventually tried their hand in Modern but because of the lack of Modern activity/community eventually gave up. Basically I feel the target audience for Modern should be the crowd that is moving away from Standard but even I myself can't find a compelling reason for them to stick it out for Modern at the moment. An appeal towards the Modern format must be created, how to go about doing it I don't know either.
I think to a certain degree Legacy players already play Legacy, so they don't need to worry about the price of the cards because they already have them and standard players are stuck in standard because it already has so much support through FNM and local tournaments. Also, let's face it, Modern is still expensive. My deck cost $500 and I had to Ebay every other card I own to get my set of bobs and shocks and fetches. I think people who play standard, which is where we can expect people to migrate to modern from, still see this as vastly too expensive, or at the very least, too much work to trade for.
I think it'll get a lot better after the reprints start coming. As mentioned earlier, part of the reason people avoid it is the entry barrier - if they're already halfway invested in the format with Ravnica lands, it's much easier to pick up the rest.
I think it'll get a lot better after the reprints start coming. As mentioned earlier, part of the reason people avoid it is the entry barrier - if they're already halfway invested in the format with Ravnica lands, it's much easier to pick up the rest.
I think this is part of the hope. If the shocks/bob get reprinted, hopefully there will be a spike. Next Modern season is what, this winter after the Ravnica standard season? Maybe well see some interest then since the B&R list will have remained untouched for almost a year at that point.
Would really love to see Modern FNMs
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In my country it has a lot of support because people do not want to spend 200-300 a year to play standard and they do not have the money either to play legacy.
In my country it has a lot of support because people do not want to spend 200-300 a year to play standard and they do not have the money either to play legacy.
This is the #1 reason I was attracted to, and assumed others would be, but it simply hasn't played out...
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During modern season there was a lot of support and fnm's were hitting low 20's consistently I felt that in my city at least it was well supported.
As of right now I dont think anyone has talked about it since the ptq but when it was around there was quite the group playing.
Building a mana base is pretty bad, and I still agree that Rav Duals wouldn't be anywhere near what they are now if Fetches hadn't been introduced in Zen.
That's neither here nor there, so a mass reprint is needed.
Stores just don't want to subsidize it so the prize support stinks. People don't want to shell $500 for a deck if the most they can win is $20 store credit.
The idea behind standard is that they DO sell their cards when its over and buy into the next season. I played standard for years that way on $50 a month + Entry Fees.
Of course selling thier cards keeps them from staying invested in Modern.
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Strange. I have three stores in my area and two of them do modern once a week each averaging 20+ people. I guess it just depends on where you live.
I play both legacy and modern, but I know alot of legacy players that have a real superiority complex about the format they play. Fact is this: Legacy will die without reprints. No one wants to pay 200+ just a set of staples (FoW), and 200+ just to get the mana base needed to play anything that isn't low tier trash, and then a **** ton more for whatever else you may need. I was fortunate enough to get into legacy with a deck I enjoy and don't mind losing with for cheap (Enchantress). But for most other people they just look at legacy and go "Well, im not rich and I don't enjoy getting stomped for haveing a less expensive deck so no thank you". Legacy is going to bust eventually.
Building a mana base is pretty bad, and I still agree that Rav Duals wouldn't be anywhere near what they are now if Fetches hadn't been introduced in Zen.
That's neither here nor there, so a mass reprint is needed.
Stores just don't want to subsidize it so the prize support stinks. People don't want to shell $500 for a deck if the most they can win is $20 store credit.
The idea behind standard is that they DO sell their cards when its over and buy into the next season. I played standard for years that way on $50 a month + Entry Fees.
Of course selling thier cards keeps them from staying invested in Modern.
And it seems with this the only way to get people to play modern is to get them to stop being idiots with thier money (I was there once also). I mean I guess if you enjoy standard that much that you are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars a year to biuld even a half-way decent deck and then stay current with meta-game shifts (yay! more money spent), then thats how you get your jollies and good for you, aint gonna judge.
If we get them to realize that shelling out $500 for a deck (if even that: Twin, Affinity, Tron, ect... are all high-level tourny winning decks that cost WELL below $500) and then being done with it is less than constatnly paying into standard, then more people might play. Heck just tell them to get into the format slowly let them play with proxies. Why the **** does everyone only want to play a format in tournament form? What the hell has happened with this game? What am I talking about again?
Strange. I have three stores in my area and two of them do modern once a week each averaging 20+ people. I guess it just depends on where you live.
....
If we get them to realize that shelling out $500 for a deck (if even that: Twin, Affinity, Tron, ect... are all high-level tourny winning decks that cost WELL below $500) and then being done with it is less than constatnly paying into standard, then more people might play. Heck just tell them to get into the format slowly let them play with proxies. Why the **** does everyone only want to play a format in tournament form? What the hell has happened with this game? What am I talking about again?
Because tournaments are where the prize support is.
I'm curious what the prize support is like in the stores you say are putting up numbers. I'm also curious as to what the Legacy community is like in those stores.
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Because tournaments are where the prize support is.
I'm curious what the prize support is like in the stores you say are putting up numbers. I'm also curious as to what the Legacy community is like in those stores.
Yeah, I get that, and I love testing my abilities out in tourney, but this has created a problem in the community. No one wants to just play anymore. I thought we played this game cause we loved it, not for the prizes alone. I know some people that refuse to play magic at all outside of tournaments. Thats insane.
Legacy support is only good at one of the stores, super-games.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Everything gets either more spiky as you go on. Then either it gets ultra spikey and dies or they cater to 'casual spikes'. Think raiding in wow.
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with GP columbus coming up a lot of people at my LGS who strickly play standard picked up modern decks.
so until it can get a base of people who strickly play only modern, its not going to be a substantial format.
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I agree. I'm stuck waiting for any local store to host a Modern tournament.
Wizards can probably help a lot with promotion of Modern as a FNM format and incentivize stores to run sanctioned Modern tournaments. If Modern remains a format for Pro Tour events, then Modern will have the same fate as Extended: a format during tournament season, but no other time. Reprints probably won't fix this long term.
Local tournaments provide a place for people to gather to play. Without a tournament format, stores don't have have motivation to run them (i.e. they aren't going to let people play for free at the store. With a tournament format, they could justify charging an entry fee.)
In my opinion, once scars block rotates out, or maybe inn block, we'll see more modern players.
Standard players will have dropped a lot of cash into their decks and when they rotate out a decent amount of them may want to get more worth out of their decks, at which point they'll likely turn to Modern.
This is what I reckon will happen, but most likely after Inn rotates.
Modern has been around for a year though, no? You'd think that some people would return to their Jund/Fae mayhem from the most recent blocks.
That said, I hope you're right, even if it means I have to see a ton of Delver.
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Legacy will continue onward for quite a long time. Legacy is still super active here in the Twin Cities, Upstate New York, etc. etc. I keep hearing about "The Death of Legacy" but the fact is there are hundreds of thousands of dual lands out there to meet supply. As long as players own the cards for legacy, it will continue to be played a lot. Vintage is supposedly 'dead', yet in Europe people own the cards and guess what? They still play vintage regularly over there. Heck even State side some people are still playing vintage without proxies sure there aren't a lot of people that own power in the states but there still are otherwise vintage championships at Gencon wouldn't be a thing that draws hundreds of players. Or how about bazaar of moxen getting 800 people or so last time around for legacy.
Modern = Extended. Only relevant when pro tour invites are on the line IMO.
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Problem is Modern doesnt allow many of the cards and strategies I like. They need to back further in time, not Masques but it would be nice to have counterspell in the format. Sorry, MUC should be payable in some non faerie form in an eternal format. I mean, in Modern I cant play Counter/Top, or any real draw go kind of deck, and the ban list makes it less appealing. No preordain/ponder? How about they banned the actual combo? No Jace the Mind Sculptor? Why? Theres plenty of ways to deal with him. Unabn Jace, unban some blue cantrips, ban the overpowered combos, and maybe Ill consider it.
Problem is Modern doesnt allow many of the cards and strategies I like. They need to back further in time, not Masques but it would be nice to have counterspell in the format. Sorry, MUC should be payable in some non faerie form in an eternal format. I mean, in Modern I cant play Counter/Top, or any real draw go kind of deck, and the ban list makes it less appealing. No preordain/ponder? How about they banned the actual combo? No Jace the Mind Sculptor? Why? Theres plenty of ways to deal with him. Unabn Jace, unban some blue cantrips, ban the overpowered combos, and maybe Ill consider it.
Really sounds like you just want to play Legacy, which already exists.
I just called my biggest local shop to ask about it (they host MD States). Guy said he kept trying to host but nobody showed. It's his favorite format and there are plenty of people who play casually at the store but the last tourny he tried to host had six people show up. I don't blame him for not continuing to push it.
He said to look for Modern come season in the winter and not before.
Depressing.
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Well that would be, in my opinion, because the last years worth of sets have been rather uninspiring.
Whereas INN block has had plenty of people excited and many decks have been built, and lots of cash spent.
Complete and utter speculation, but hey, thats why my entire group went Modern, because since Zendikar block we've been bored ****less of Standard, so we packed up our old decks and gave Modern a try, and never looked back.
Same. I think everyone has a "primary" format. Mine is Block because the card interactions are close to limited in power level but consistant enough to not feel that you lost to bad draws or whatever.
Summers for block are pretty bad, so I started playing Modern (its actually cheaper on MTGO than Standard and I actually had paper cards from Mir->TSP era)
When you see new cards spoiled you automatically start thinking about decks and stuff. Your format is where you slot those cards.
I've also not had time to keep up with the constant standard price game. I have a pile of Zen stuff on my desk that is basically worthless but when it was legal in standard it was a $1-2 pile. For modern, My fetches went up in price, they went down in price, who cares they are still legal and not rotating.
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I think all of paper magic has its clock ticking. Online is the superior medium in terms of actually being able to find meaningful games and tourneys, any time of day, any where in the world. I like to, you know, actually use the cards I have paid for.
Also, it seems to me that investing in an eternal format like Modern is actually a lot cheaper than running the never ending gauntlet of standard rotations.
I think all of paper magic has its clock ticking. Online is the superior medium in terms of actually being able to find meaningful games and tourneys, any time of day, any where in the world. I like to, you know, actually use the cards I have paid for.
Also, it seems to me that investing in an eternal format like Modern is actually a lot cheaper than running the never ending gauntlet of standard rotations.
MTGO interface/client would have to improve for that to happen.
As to the second point, that's the idea of Modern. It's an eternal format that, while having a relatively high cost of entry (still way cheaper than Legacy), is a one-time investment with minimal upkeep. Honestly, it becomes cheaper than Standard after one or, at most, two rotations.
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Extended was already somewhat of a step-child format and while Modern is an improvement (IMO) it still seems to hit at an odd audience. A lot of the Magic playing elites and high rollers will be playing Legacy. The remaining folks with the poorer but still competitive magic players will be sticking it out in Standard.
Modern seems to be a no man's land in terms of player base. Personally, I love the availability of an eternal format that can be supported by way of reprints but a format needs more than reprints to survive.
Modern has seen lots of action online but seems to have far less enthusiasm in brick and mortar magic shops. Sure, it appears on the PT but where are the local/regional tournaments? I have 6 shops in my metro area and NONE of them have touched Modern in terms of a competitive setting (even FNM). You can only play casually, at best - there simply isn't enough interest.
Is there a way to fix this? Now that the ban list seems to have stabilized, do you think Wizards will make more of an effort to promote Modern? Or will it just replace Extended as being "that other format?" Do you think reprinting staples (Ravnica lands) will help or does there need to be more of a push in some other direction (ala events or promotions/game days)?
I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X
I totally agree. Thats why I started up modern online. But I think if more players asked for it in their local store would actually do it. the more players demand it, the more it will get bigger.
I think the best thing wizards could do to support it, is make it an fmn thing.
I think providing consistent EVENT support from Wizards at the local level would go a long way towards helping it. If people won't come out for Goyfs, maybe theyll come out for points/sanctioned events AND Goyfs
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X
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[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I think this is part of the hope. If the shocks/bob get reprinted, hopefully there will be a spike. Next Modern season is what, this winter after the Ravnica standard season? Maybe well see some interest then since the B&R list will have remained untouched for almost a year at that point.
Would really love to see Modern FNMs
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X
This is the #1 reason I was attracted to, and assumed others would be, but it simply hasn't played out...
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X
As of right now I dont think anyone has talked about it since the ptq but when it was around there was quite the group playing.
That's neither here nor there, so a mass reprint is needed.
Stores just don't want to subsidize it so the prize support stinks. People don't want to shell $500 for a deck if the most they can win is $20 store credit.
The idea behind standard is that they DO sell their cards when its over and buy into the next season. I played standard for years that way on $50 a month + Entry Fees.
Of course selling thier cards keeps them from staying invested in Modern.
I play both legacy and modern, but I know alot of legacy players that have a real superiority complex about the format they play. Fact is this: Legacy will die without reprints. No one wants to pay 200+ just a set of staples (FoW), and 200+ just to get the mana base needed to play anything that isn't low tier trash, and then a **** ton more for whatever else you may need. I was fortunate enough to get into legacy with a deck I enjoy and don't mind losing with for cheap (Enchantress). But for most other people they just look at legacy and go "Well, im not rich and I don't enjoy getting stomped for haveing a less expensive deck so no thank you". Legacy is going to bust eventually.
And it seems with this the only way to get people to play modern is to get them to stop being idiots with thier money (I was there once also). I mean I guess if you enjoy standard that much that you are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars a year to biuld even a half-way decent deck and then stay current with meta-game shifts (yay! more money spent), then thats how you get your jollies and good for you, aint gonna judge.
If we get them to realize that shelling out $500 for a deck (if even that: Twin, Affinity, Tron, ect... are all high-level tourny winning decks that cost WELL below $500) and then being done with it is less than constatnly paying into standard, then more people might play. Heck just tell them to get into the format slowly let them play with proxies. Why the **** does everyone only want to play a format in tournament form? What the hell has happened with this game? What am I talking about again?
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Because tournaments are where the prize support is.
I'm curious what the prize support is like in the stores you say are putting up numbers. I'm also curious as to what the Legacy community is like in those stores.
Legacy support is only good at one of the stores, super-games.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
so until it can get a base of people who strickly play only modern, its not going to be a substantial format.
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I agree. I'm stuck waiting for any local store to host a Modern tournament.
Wizards can probably help a lot with promotion of Modern as a FNM format and incentivize stores to run sanctioned Modern tournaments. If Modern remains a format for Pro Tour events, then Modern will have the same fate as Extended: a format during tournament season, but no other time. Reprints probably won't fix this long term.
Local tournaments provide a place for people to gather to play. Without a tournament format, stores don't have have motivation to run them (i.e. they aren't going to let people play for free at the store. With a tournament format, they could justify charging an entry fee.)
Modern has been around for a year though, no? You'd think that some people would return to their Jund/Fae mayhem from the most recent blocks.
That said, I hope you're right, even if it means I have to see a ton of Delver.
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X
Modern = Extended. Only relevant when pro tour invites are on the line IMO.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Really sounds like you just want to play Legacy, which already exists.
CG
He said to look for Modern come season in the winter and not before.
Depressing.
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X
Same. I think everyone has a "primary" format. Mine is Block because the card interactions are close to limited in power level but consistant enough to not feel that you lost to bad draws or whatever.
Summers for block are pretty bad, so I started playing Modern (its actually cheaper on MTGO than Standard and I actually had paper cards from Mir->TSP era)
When you see new cards spoiled you automatically start thinking about decks and stuff. Your format is where you slot those cards.
I've also not had time to keep up with the constant standard price game. I have a pile of Zen stuff on my desk that is basically worthless but when it was legal in standard it was a $1-2 pile. For modern, My fetches went up in price, they went down in price, who cares they are still legal and not rotating.
Also, it seems to me that investing in an eternal format like Modern is actually a lot cheaper than running the never ending gauntlet of standard rotations.
MTGO interface/client would have to improve for that to happen.
As to the second point, that's the idea of Modern. It's an eternal format that, while having a relatively high cost of entry (still way cheaper than Legacy), is a one-time investment with minimal upkeep. Honestly, it becomes cheaper than Standard after one or, at most, two rotations.
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X