Hey guys, I thought of a new varient modern format where, like vintage, instead of cards being banned, they are restricted, so you can still play with the goodies, but this way the format isnt warped too terribly. I think it would make the format closer to turn 3, but I think it could be fun. Some cards currently legal may be restricted if they turn out too powerful, so there will be a watchlist for certain cards. I would like to create a sort of 3-5 person judging committee to decide/vote on restrictions/unrestrictions.
Let me know what you guys think, I hope this will take off on cockatrice, I'm gonna be trying to play this on monday, if you see me and you like the idea, join my room(:
I can see lots of problems with this already:
Affinity gets 5 more artifact lands, even if they're 1-ofs. Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating say thanks.
Any mill-your-library deck wins instantly with 3 Narcomoebas and a singleton Dread Return. At the moment they have to pay 3W for Unburial Rites.
Every blue deck will run 1 Ponder and 1 Preordain.
Creature mirrors become determined by who draws Punishing Fire first. Scapeshift wins instantly when it tutors for Valakut.
There is enough tutoring in Modern that restricting instead of banning won't work, and those 1-ofs make matches decided by whoever draws card X first.
Restricting cards to 1 ofs turns the format into who ever can tutor/draw their 1 of first wins.
You have to remember Wotc set up Modern to be a turn 4 format. Meaning first, the games should last till turn 4 regularly, and second no one should have control of the game before turn 4 regularly. Restricting cards to 1 ofs leads to extremely explosive decks that can win before turn 4 on a regular basis. Nullifying the basis of the format.
One other card to add to the list of izzetmage, elfball only needs 1 copy of glimpse to go off.
I don't really like the idea of a restricted list anywhere outside of Vintage. There it makes sense because you're supposed to be able to play with any card. From what little I've experienced, Legacy is fun and Vintage is obnoxious. If a card is good enough that you want to take it out of player's decks then I say get rid of it entirely and not dance around the issue.
I played back in the day when standard had a restricted list, and it was kind of annoying. You usually had to wonder if people were really limiting a card to 1, and it was more work to keep up with a restricted and banned list. Personally, I don't want to see the same thing for Modern.
Additionally, if one was implemented for Modern, you may as well ban Gifts Ungiven
This is a stupid Idea. nobody would play this. all the decks that are already good get better but more unstable. this lets decks that Wizards doesn't want to see back into the format and makes turn 1 and turn 2 wins possible again. yes, there cannot be a 12 post deck but why bring 1 back then? green sun allows for turn 1 a person to ramp their lands. and a 1 mana ritual is mean storm can either turn 1 pyromancer ascension or just go off.
I HIGHLY recommend closing this thread is 1 of these cards still breaks the format into something wizards doesn't want to see.
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Maybe turn 3 consistantly is a little out there, but there is a multitude of land finding cards,transmute for 0, kinght of the reliquary, Search for legend etc. there are lots of ways to get the land u need. And hexmage being a 4 of makes it easy. There is a reason it was one of the first cards banned.
Yeah, I'd definitely play a 4 Steelshaper's Gift deck in this format. Steelshaper Clamp/Plating/Jitte Affinity, anyone?
I've become dampened at the thought.
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
Why not as well play Modern without bannings? We'd have 1-3 viable decks and all kinds of innovation would be severely punished. That'd be like Standard. :cool::cool:
I would say we play Modern because we want the game to be filled with powerful, yet not totally distasteful cards that render certain deck archetypes unplayable so there will always be diversity. Restriction just has no place in Modern. Restricted cards overall are "should be banned" power level cards so everyone would have their singleton copy of cards like Sensei's Divining Top in their deck which would just make the format too monotonous and boring.
From someone who played the format ban free, its a combo fest with no cards to stop them from comboing off. It comes down to who gets their pieces first, wins. Turn 1 combo is not fun to play against, and there is no force of will to stop or slow them down.
Add in the fact Wotc has set down certain parameters they want the format played in, playing without a ban list is no possible to stay with in those parameters.
Wotc wants a format that has a power level that is in between Standard and Legacy, not competing with one of them.
Coming from someone who plays Vintage, I dont see this as being a problem. You might have to outright ban a few cards or add a few more to the restricted list.
I get a sense that others are just uncomfortable with the idea. I suspect that most players come from formats that have just a straight up banned list. Arguments about what Wizards wants for the format are moot. This is a VARIANT format, ie created without the oversight of WotC. So who cares what they set out to do.
I can see lots of problems with this already:
Affinity gets 5 more artifact lands, even if they're 1-ofs. Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating say thanks.
Any mill-your-library deck wins instantly with 3 Narcomoebas and a singleton Dread Return. At the moment they have to pay 3W for Unburial Rites.
Every blue deck will run 1 Ponder and 1 Preordain.
Creature mirrors become determined by who draws Punishing Fire first. Scapeshift wins instantly when it tutors for Valakut.
There is enough tutoring in Modern that restricting instead of banning won't work, and those 1-ofs make matches decided by whoever draws card X first.
If affinity became a serious problem because of 5 artifact lands, I would just play Stony Silence and laugh.
I dont understand how the thought of every blue deck running 1 copy of Ponder and Preordain is a problem. They probably wouldnt anyways, but how would it be problematic?
Coming from someone who plays Vintage, I dont see this as being a problem. You might have to outright ban a few cards or add a few more to the restricted list.
I get a sense that others are just uncomfortable with the idea. I suspect that most players come from formats that have just a straight up banned list. Arguments about what Wizards wants for the format are moot. This is a VARIANT format, ie created without the oversight of WotC. So who cares what they set out to do.
Its their game, we just play in it. They set the parameters of the formats and we adjust accordingly. They have all the data to know what they want to do with any format. No one posting here has the data Wotc has, not even blippy.
No ban Modern is almost as bad as Vintage. I have been playing since the inception of this game and yes, I think Vintage as it is, is a terrible format. Probably the worst of them all. But at least Vintage has the cards to at least slow down turn 1 combo in the format, Modern doesnt. Its my opinion, but seeing how Wotc has more or less dumped the format, I am thinking I am not the only one who feels this way.
EDIT- Above I am talking constructed competitive formats.
If affinity became a serious problem because of 5 artifact lands, I would just play Stony Silence and laugh.
Typical Vintage player mentality, we have 1 card we MIGHT be able to mull into, so the deck is fine for the format.
I would love to see Dredge in Modern, I play it in Legacy. But again, in the young format having few if any answers to a deck isnt good for the format. Having to pack 8-10 cards for 1 deck is the meaning of format warping.
I dont understand how the thought of every blue deck running 1 copy of Ponder and Preordain is a problem. They probably wouldnt anyways, but how would it be problematic?
Someone never played when these cards were legal in the format. Pfire was the problem with Zoo, not the kitty, and all blue decks played 4 copies of each. Tho I believe preordain could come off the ban list while leaving ponder on it.
Any mill-your-library deck wins instantly with 3 Narcomoebas and a singleton Dread Return. At the moment they have to pay 3W for Unburial Rites.
(snip)
Scapeshift wins instantly when it tutors for Valakut.
(snip)
There is enough tutoring in Modern that restricting instead of banning won't work, and those 1-ofs make matches decided by whoever draws card X first.
As I commented earlier with Steelshaper's GiftSkullclamp Affinity, I believe Restricted Modern will need even further restrictions. I don't entirely believe the 1-ofs will make matches decided by who draws a card first--I believe the 1-ofs will make matches decided by who tutors for the card first. And when you have at least 5 copies of a card thanks to a tutor (or the sheer inevitability of Dredge), restricted cards will be a big problem.
Its their game, we just play in it. They set the parameters of the formats and we adjust accordingly. They have all the data to know what they want to do with any format. No one posting here has the data Wotc has, not even blippy.
No ban Modern is almost as bad as Vintage. I have been playing since the inception of this game and yes, I think Vintage as it is, is a terrible format. Probably the worst of them all. But at least Vintage has the cards to at least slow down turn 1 combo in the format, Modern doesnt. Its my opinion, but seeing how Wotc has more or less dumped the format, I am thinking I am not the only one who feels this way.
If people though this way, formats like EDH would have never existed.
While I commend the OP for trying to come up with original ideas, I'm not sure it will work. The format is at a place right now where decks are quite strongly balanced. Storm is probably the only deck that can consistently win before turn 4 (>50%, which is very likely according to statistics), and it gets the same kind of hate Dredge does in Legacy. That said, in limiting things to one, a lot of decks get a lot of cards.
Storm gets at least three cards for them, and now they can win on turn 1 sometimes. It might conflict a bit with PA, but I'm sure they can figure something out. It might turn out that they just go back to the non-PA version. And Affinity gets at least 5 insane cards in the deck, there's a reason those artifact lands were banned. They didn't really play all 20 of them in the first place, but I'm sure it's better than Darksteel Citadel. Elves also gets one Glimpse, which is insane in the deck, and they have their GSZ too.
I think the cards that get unbanned will simply put certain decks over the top. While a lot of decks get a lot of cards, I think you just get too much in some decks. Remember, a lot of decks would ideally play more than one of the banned cards, so it's not like every deck is getting equal numbers. I play UW Gifts Tron, and I get what, maybe a JTMS? It certainly doesn't make my deck broken, but many other decks do become broken.
Probably the most dangerous cards in this format will be cards that can be tutored for extremely cheaply and ones that can be tutored for with a game-winning card. These are the ones that swing games not out of pure luck, but by smart deck construction.
Skullclamp is extremely dangerous and can be tutored for by 4 Steelshaper's Gift and 1 Stoneforge Mystic. Jitte is not quite as dangerous, but is similarly easy and fast to search for. Decks will play 5-6 of each equipment in this format.
Sword of the Meek will enable Thopter Combo-Control decks that will gladly search for it with the aforementioned spells or simply Gifts Ungiven. It may be able to make a viable control deck in this format, but I'm not sure how well it will do that.
Valakut will enable Scapeshift combo decks (which might actually seem balanced in this format, due to its slow speed), even as a 1-of. Tutor for 1 Valakut and 6 Mountains/Mountain shocks and you probably win. Add another Mountain to the count and you definitely win.
And let us not forget that Hypergenesis basically gets 8-12 copies of its namesake card thanks to Cascade spells. (Mull until you no longer have a Hypergenesis in hand, but still...)
Let me just say that I'm gonna try to spread this through cockatrice and keep playing it and tweeking the restricted list. Anyone who is interested and would like to play can find me online: pyro314.
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
No ban Modern is almost as bad as Vintage. I have been playing since the inception of this game and yes, I think Vintage as it is, is a terrible format. Probably the worst of them all. But at least Vintage has the cards to at least slow down turn 1 combo in the format, Modern doesnt. Its my opinion, but seeing how Wotc has more or less dumped the format, I am thinking I am not the only one who feels this way.
WotC didn't 'Dump Vintage'. It's just merely impossible to support in any meaningful way. Restricted list, etc, etc. And currently from what i've heard from a friend who actually plays the hell out of Vintage and from what i've read on the boards here. At this point in time Vintage is incredibly fun, varied, and has a good healthy meta. It just happens to play with the strongest cards ever.
It's like boxing, except you're using Halo Spartans instead of non-genetically modified humans.
I think calling it 'the worst format of them all' is a tad unwarranted =/. There's no bad formats there's just ones that you personally don't like to play. Vintage happens to be that, and that's fine. From your posts you don't like playing with incredibly powerful cards, and that's perfectly understandable, but that doesn't mean you should trashtalk Vintage.
EDH isnt a sanctioned constructed format, its casual. Also look how long it took for EDH to catch on and look at the ban list.
And Restricted Modern is planeswalkers idea for a casual format to play with people on Cockatrice, not something (from what i understand) he wants to see actually happen.
Current Restricted List:
Watchlist:
Let me know what you guys think, I hope this will take off on cockatrice, I'm gonna be trying to play this on monday, if you see me and you like the idea, join my room(:
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Affinity gets 5 more artifact lands, even if they're 1-ofs. Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating say thanks.
Any mill-your-library deck wins instantly with 3 Narcomoebas and a singleton Dread Return. At the moment they have to pay 3W for Unburial Rites.
Every blue deck will run 1 Ponder and 1 Preordain.
Creature mirrors become determined by who draws Punishing Fire first.
Scapeshift wins instantly when it tutors for Valakut.
There is enough tutoring in Modern that restricting instead of banning won't work, and those 1-ofs make matches decided by whoever draws card X first.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
You have to remember Wotc set up Modern to be a turn 4 format. Meaning first, the games should last till turn 4 regularly, and second no one should have control of the game before turn 4 regularly. Restricting cards to 1 ofs leads to extremely explosive decks that can win before turn 4 on a regular basis. Nullifying the basis of the format.
One other card to add to the list of izzetmage, elfball only needs 1 copy of glimpse to go off.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Additionally, if one was implemented for Modern, you may as well ban Gifts Ungiven
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I HIGHLY recommend closing this thread is 1 of these cards still breaks the format into something wizards doesn't want to see.
Also senseis divining top should just be straight up banned.
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How would you do it consistently?
Also, skullclamp, jitte, and sfm should probably just stay completely banned lol.
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Maybe turn 3 consistantly is a little out there, but there is a multitude of land finding cards,transmute for 0, kinght of the reliquary, Search for legend etc. there are lots of ways to get the land u need. And hexmage being a 4 of makes it easy. There is a reason it was one of the first cards banned.
Yeah, I'd definitely play a 4 Steelshaper's Gift deck in this format. Steelshaper Clamp/Plating/Jitte Affinity, anyone?
I've become dampened at the thought.
From someone who played the format ban free, its a combo fest with no cards to stop them from comboing off. It comes down to who gets their pieces first, wins. Turn 1 combo is not fun to play against, and there is no force of will to stop or slow them down.
Add in the fact Wotc has set down certain parameters they want the format played in, playing without a ban list is no possible to stay with in those parameters.
Wotc wants a format that has a power level that is in between Standard and Legacy, not competing with one of them.
I get a sense that others are just uncomfortable with the idea. I suspect that most players come from formats that have just a straight up banned list. Arguments about what Wizards wants for the format are moot. This is a VARIANT format, ie created without the oversight of WotC. So who cares what they set out to do.
If affinity became a serious problem because of 5 artifact lands, I would just play Stony Silence and laugh.
Ban Dread Return, or just play Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, or any of the other typical stuff you would play in that matchup.
If they ever do actually draw Punishing Fire that is.
I dont understand how the thought of every blue deck running 1 copy of Ponder and Preordain is a problem. They probably wouldnt anyways, but how would it be problematic?
Like Damping Matrix, or is that Stony Silence I hear?
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Its their game, we just play in it. They set the parameters of the formats and we adjust accordingly. They have all the data to know what they want to do with any format. No one posting here has the data Wotc has, not even blippy.
No ban Modern is almost as bad as Vintage. I have been playing since the inception of this game and yes, I think Vintage as it is, is a terrible format. Probably the worst of them all. But at least Vintage has the cards to at least slow down turn 1 combo in the format, Modern doesnt. Its my opinion, but seeing how Wotc has more or less dumped the format, I am thinking I am not the only one who feels this way.
EDIT- Above I am talking constructed competitive formats.
Typical Vintage player mentality, we have 1 card we MIGHT be able to mull into, so the deck is fine for the format.
I would love to see Dredge in Modern, I play it in Legacy. But again, in the young format having few if any answers to a deck isnt good for the format. Having to pack 8-10 cards for 1 deck is the meaning of format warping.
Someone never played when these cards were legal in the format. Pfire was the problem with Zoo, not the kitty, and all blue decks played 4 copies of each. Tho I believe preordain could come off the ban list while leaving ponder on it.
As I commented earlier with Steelshaper's Gift Skullclamp Affinity, I believe Restricted Modern will need even further restrictions. I don't entirely believe the 1-ofs will make matches decided by who draws a card first--I believe the 1-ofs will make matches decided by who tutors for the card first. And when you have at least 5 copies of a card thanks to a tutor (or the sheer inevitability of Dredge), restricted cards will be a big problem.
If people though this way, formats like EDH would have never existed.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Storm gets at least three cards for them, and now they can win on turn 1 sometimes. It might conflict a bit with PA, but I'm sure they can figure something out. It might turn out that they just go back to the non-PA version. And Affinity gets at least 5 insane cards in the deck, there's a reason those artifact lands were banned. They didn't really play all 20 of them in the first place, but I'm sure it's better than Darksteel Citadel. Elves also gets one Glimpse, which is insane in the deck, and they have their GSZ too.
I think the cards that get unbanned will simply put certain decks over the top. While a lot of decks get a lot of cards, I think you just get too much in some decks. Remember, a lot of decks would ideally play more than one of the banned cards, so it's not like every deck is getting equal numbers. I play UW Gifts Tron, and I get what, maybe a JTMS? It certainly doesn't make my deck broken, but many other decks do become broken.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Skullclamp is extremely dangerous and can be tutored for by 4 Steelshaper's Gift and 1 Stoneforge Mystic. Jitte is not quite as dangerous, but is similarly easy and fast to search for. Decks will play 5-6 of each equipment in this format.
Sword of the Meek will enable Thopter Combo-Control decks that will gladly search for it with the aforementioned spells or simply Gifts Ungiven. It may be able to make a viable control deck in this format, but I'm not sure how well it will do that.
Valakut will enable Scapeshift combo decks (which might actually seem balanced in this format, due to its slow speed), even as a 1-of. Tutor for 1 Valakut and 6 Mountains/Mountain shocks and you probably win. Add another Mountain to the count and you definitely win.
And let us not forget that Hypergenesis basically gets 8-12 copies of its namesake card thanks to Cascade spells. (Mull until you no longer have a Hypergenesis in hand, but still...)
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
EDH isnt a sanctioned constructed format, its casual. Also look how long it took for EDH to catch on and look at the ban list.
WotC didn't 'Dump Vintage'. It's just merely impossible to support in any meaningful way. Restricted list, etc, etc. And currently from what i've heard from a friend who actually plays the hell out of Vintage and from what i've read on the boards here. At this point in time Vintage is incredibly fun, varied, and has a good healthy meta. It just happens to play with the strongest cards ever.
It's like boxing, except you're using Halo Spartans instead of non-genetically modified humans.
I think calling it 'the worst format of them all' is a tad unwarranted =/. There's no bad formats there's just ones that you personally don't like to play. Vintage happens to be that, and that's fine. From your posts you don't like playing with incredibly powerful cards, and that's perfectly understandable, but that doesn't mean you should trashtalk Vintage.
And Restricted Modern is planeswalkers idea for a casual format to play with people on Cockatrice, not something (from what i understand) he wants to see actually happen.
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If you want to get super technical, then neither is Legacy or Vintage. They are actually classified as Eternal Formats.
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UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B