I have several black/x deck ideas for Modern where Dark Confidant would be useful. However, I do not have the cash to shell out for said Confidant. What would be a decent replacement for the Confidant?
You could try Phyrexian Arena Its comes down a turn latter then confidant, but it has less life loss and is harder to remove. I like it better in certain situations. I typicly play it in decks with a higher mana curve to mitagate life loss.
Phyrexian Arena is really the closest we have, and its pretty far from Dark Confidant's power level.
Really, I find it best to not try to emulate Dark Confidant, but instead take advantage of the opportunity of not having him, by doing something that decks that would run him can not normally do.
For example, I also do not have Dark Confidants, but I wanted to play Jund for a given PTQ. So I started with the prevailing jund list at the time, and just cut 4 bobs to start with.
I knew I wanted another 2 drop to replace it, so I dug through all the two drops available and I found Sakura Tribe Elder. He seemed the most powerful thing available, albeit coming from a direction Jund doesn't really mess with traditionally.
So I looked over the deck again, and saw that two things had changed:
1) Thanks to tribe elder, I was able to get to high mana more easily.
2) Without Bob, I didn't have to fear running a few higher cost bombs.
So I moved some things around and fit in two titans (one inferno, one grave).
Was it as good as stock Jund? No, but it was a heck of a lot closer than had I just mashed in some other "card advantage" card in the dark confidant spot.
It was also totally worth the surprised looks on people's faces when they "knew" I had no outs, just for me to slam a titan down on them and take over the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I support WotC's goal of shaping Modern in favor of diversity.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
Phyrexian Arena is really the closest we have, and its pretty far from Dark Confidant's power level.
Really, I find it best to not try to emulate Dark Confidant, but instead take advantage of the opportunity of not having him, by doing something that decks that would run him can not normally do.
For example, I also do not have Dark Confidants, but I wanted to play Jund for a given PTQ. So I started with the prevailing jund list at the time, and just cut 4 bobs to start with.
I knew I wanted another 2 drop to replace it, so I dug through all the two drops available and I found Sakura Tribe Elder. He seemed the most powerful thing available, albeit coming from a direction Jund doesn't really mess with traditionally.
So I looked over the deck again, and saw that two things had changed:
1) Thanks to tribe elder, I was able to get to high mana more easily.
2) Without Bob, I didn't have to fear running a few higher cost bombs.
So I moved some things around and fit in two titans (one inferno, one grave).
Was it as good as stock Jund? No, but it was a heck of a lot closer than had I just mashed in some other "card advantage" card in the dark confidant spot.
It was also totally worth the surprised looks on people's faces when they "knew" I had no outs, just for me to slam a titan down on them and take over the game.
got to back what he said. A buddy of mine replaced it with cobra, and tosses out titans now.
Honestly Bob is a tad overrated. That said, it causes most opponents to feel needlessly pressured to remove him quickly.
The "second best" black creature in the format is Tombstalker.
Since when is an extra card a turn starting on T3 that can also swing overrated?
He's really hard to "budget" replace which is why he's $50. I can budget replace/rebuild decks w/out Goyfs all day and not see a lot of difference. Bob is another story.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
depends on what type of deck you want, in jund I end up with and empty hand by turn 4 if I don't have bob in the table, so you need some form of CA
if you are trying some form of mono black/splash control then phyrexian arena might do it, you also have that 3BB 5/4 flying demon that does arena,
Really, I find it best to not try to emulate Dark Confidant, but instead take advantage of the opportunity of not having him, by doing something that decks that would run him can not normally do.
This. It's usually better to run a Tier 2 deck with unique, solid properties than a Tier 1 deck with trashy replacements.
In this case, though, Arena can be a decent substitute if it fits your curve and manabase.
Some other not-nearly-as-good options include Augury Adept, if you're BW or BU; Dark Tutelage is Bob-chantment but you might be better off with Arena for the cost; Sarkan the Mad's +0 does the Bob trick, but damages himself instead of you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner // (W/U)(W/U)(W/U) Grand Arbiter Augustin IV // RRR Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker // (R/G)(R/G)(R/G) Wort, the Raidmother // URG Riku of Two Reflections // RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
In response to your Lightning Blast, I'll eat this burrito.
Quote from slipknot72102 »
This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
Since when is an extra card a turn starting on T3 that can also swing overrated"?
Okay, that hanging quote is bothering me.
My idiosyncracies aside, Bob became overrated when the meta shifted to aggro decks. How often do you want to see Bob vs. Affinity? How about Red Aggro?
Most of the time you can feel safe playing him when you're on the front foot, but barring that he's most likely a subpar Silvergill Adept.
I think the only deck that plays Bob widely is probably Jund, there is still other black colour decks in Modern you can play such as Melira Pod, B/W Token, B/R burn etc.
If you are running a deck that can reliably get combat damage through then I feel that Mask of Memory is better in some ways. It digs deeper, and that is an amazing advantage when you are looking for key cards.
Am I the only one that thinks that Phyrexian Arena is a better card? It's harder to remove since there are more creature kill spells than enchantment destruction spells and, although it costs one more mana to cast, it only hurts you for 1 life no matter what you draw, not 4 life like if you would draw a bloodbraid off confidant. Confidant could be better in a aggro deck with a lot of low cc spells because you can swing with it and it won't hurt you too much, but it's not $40 better. Every other deck would find Phyrexian Arena better imo.
Am I the only one that thinks that Phyrexian Arena is a better card? It's harder to remove since there are more creature kill spells than enchantment destruction spells and, although it costs one more mana to cast, it only hurts you for 1 life no matter what you draw, not 4 life like if you would draw a bloodbraid off confidant. Confidant could be better in a aggro deck with a lot of low cc spells because you can swing with it and it won't hurt you too much, but it's not $40 better. Every other deck would find Phyrexian Arena better imo.
The problem is that at 3cmc it comes on board too late, is too color intensive, and if you are playing it as soon as you can (usually turn 3) you have just essentially skipped that turn with no effect on the board. Confidant, at 2 cmc, can be dropped early and it actually helps your board position the turn it drops because it can act as a deterrent from being attacked.
I keep trying out Arena, but skipping turn 3 and not getting your draw on board till turn 4 always puts the deck too far behind. If pro-active control were better in modern you could probably get away with it, but it is not.
Thanks for all the feedback, guys! I've been using the Arena and Night's Whisper recently, but there are definitely great suggestions here. I really enjoyed the philosophy of building around NOT having Bob available to open up other avenues of deck building. Appreciate it...
I found a good replacment in jund. I use dusk urchins and im loving him. Hes got a big body and can play suicide with him, and trade with creatures and draw lots of cards, ive gotten 3 cards and done 7 dmg with him in allot of games. I think hes the best true replacement for bob. And hes easyer to plash, thats why i stopped using arena.
I found a good replacment in jund. I use dusk urchins and im loving him. Hes got a big body and can play suicide with him, and trade with creatures and draw lots of cards, ive gotten 3 cards and done 7 dmg with him in allot of games. I think hes the best true replacement for bob. And hes easyer to plash, thats why i stopped using arena.
Hmmm, hadn't seen that card before, very cool stuff. Giving me some ideas for some deckbuilding, thanks. I wonder if suicide black could be a thing in Modern, I haven't heard or seen anything.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner // (W/U)(W/U)(W/U) Grand Arbiter Augustin IV // RRR Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker // (R/G)(R/G)(R/G) Wort, the Raidmother // URG Riku of Two Reflections // RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
In response to your Lightning Blast, I'll eat this burrito.
Quote from slipknot72102 »
This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
I found a good replacment in jund. I use dusk urchins and im loving him. Hes got a big body and can play suicide with him, and trade with creatures and draw lots of cards, ive gotten 3 cards and done 7 dmg with him in allot of games. I think hes the best true replacement for bob. And hes easyer to plash, thats why i stopped using arena.
2 clean hits. Not to hard to do. Interesting card tho.
It gets the counter when it attacks, which is before it deals damage. The first unblocked damage you get is 3, and the second is 2.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I support WotC's goal of shaping Modern in favor of diversity.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
Really, I find it best to not try to emulate Dark Confidant, but instead take advantage of the opportunity of not having him, by doing something that decks that would run him can not normally do.
For example, I also do not have Dark Confidants, but I wanted to play Jund for a given PTQ. So I started with the prevailing jund list at the time, and just cut 4 bobs to start with.
I knew I wanted another 2 drop to replace it, so I dug through all the two drops available and I found Sakura Tribe Elder. He seemed the most powerful thing available, albeit coming from a direction Jund doesn't really mess with traditionally.
So I looked over the deck again, and saw that two things had changed:
1) Thanks to tribe elder, I was able to get to high mana more easily.
2) Without Bob, I didn't have to fear running a few higher cost bombs.
So I moved some things around and fit in two titans (one inferno, one grave).
Was it as good as stock Jund? No, but it was a heck of a lot closer than had I just mashed in some other "card advantage" card in the dark confidant spot.
It was also totally worth the surprised looks on people's faces when they "knew" I had no outs, just for me to slam a titan down on them and take over the game.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog
Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
got to back what he said. A buddy of mine replaced it with cobra, and tosses out titans now.
The "second best" black creature in the format is Tombstalker.
Since when is an extra card a turn starting on T3 that can also swing overrated?
He's really hard to "budget" replace which is why he's $50. I can budget replace/rebuild decks w/out Goyfs all day and not see a lot of difference. Bob is another story.
if you are trying some form of mono black/splash control then phyrexian arena might do it, you also have that 3BB 5/4 flying demon that does arena,
This. It's usually better to run a Tier 2 deck with unique, solid properties than a Tier 1 deck with trashy replacements.
In this case, though, Arena can be a decent substitute if it fits your curve and manabase.
Some other not-nearly-as-good options include Augury Adept, if you're BW or BU; Dark Tutelage is Bob-chantment but you might be better off with Arena for the cost; Sarkan the Mad's +0 does the Bob trick, but damages himself instead of you.
Okay, that hanging quote is bothering me.
My idiosyncracies aside, Bob became overrated when the meta shifted to aggro decks. How often do you want to see Bob vs. Affinity? How about Red Aggro?
Most of the time you can feel safe playing him when you're on the front foot, but barring that he's most likely a subpar Silvergill Adept.
Also, I know I'm the minority here.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I keep trying out Arena, but skipping turn 3 and not getting your draw on board till turn 4 always puts the deck too far behind. If pro-active control were better in modern you could probably get away with it, but it is not.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Hmmm, hadn't seen that card before, very cool stuff. Giving me some ideas for some deckbuilding, thanks. I wonder if suicide black could be a thing in Modern, I haven't heard or seen anything.
how do you manage to deal 7 with him?
It gets the counter when it attacks, which is before it deals damage. The first unblocked damage you get is 3, and the second is 2.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog
Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
Warning issued for necroing a thread. Thread locked.