"...the DCI's stated guideline for the Modern format was to avoid having decks that consistently win the game on turn three."
-Erik Lauer
So, I don't know if I should feel bad when I win on turn 3 (or, God forbid, turn 2) in modern. I play UR storm, and while the deck can win turn 4 a good percentage of the time, it's not uncommon to win turn 3, especially if a Pyromancer Ascension resolves turn 2.
Game 2 and 3 are more difficult because of playing around hate (or implied hate), but I'm wondering if the format is actually healthy now when I win game 1 on turn 3, and very rarely on turn 2.
And what could they ban? Pyromancer Ascension? Serum Visions?
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Quote from ClockworkSwordfish »
Had semenulative upkeep before it was fashionable. Look what you forced me to do, Wizards! IT DIDN'T HAVE TO GO DOWN LIKE THIS!
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Like I said, I can only go by my own experience, which is now 18 years. Kind of disheartening when you think you know something and you find out that you're a notch below a low grade moron.
Ur storm is easy to hate. Thalia? Mindbreak trap? Rule of law? Most sbs nowadays dont even focus on storm as much anymore. They already banned ponder/preordained to hit combo. Serum visions too? That's a little too much. Infect wins in t 2 or 3 too and its not a huge problem.
There really isn't too much wrong with a turn 2 or 3 win when you're dealing with a total glass cannon like storm. So many ways to stop it that if you can't find one you probably deserved to lose. My opinion on infect is a little bit different. I hate the poison win con with a passion, and there are definitely fewer reliable ways to deal with it. I am just hoping that disruption-heavy decks can keep it from showing up all over the place.
It's awesome how now people start talking about infect (now that rancor is spoiled).
how is this relevant? infect has won on t2 or 3 way before rancor was spoiled? remember when the assault strobe infect got popular and people talked about it for a few days? I don't see the point of posting something like this when this happens all the time. this thread was about ur storm not infect btw. i mentioned infect as another deck that likes to win on t2 or 3 when it gets the chance.
There really isn't too much wrong with a turn 2 or 3 win when you're dealing with a total glass cannon like storm. So many ways to stop it that if you can't find one you probably deserved to lose. My opinion on infect is a little bit different. I hate the poison win con with a passion, and there are definitely fewer reliable ways to deal with it. I am just hoping that disruption-heavy decks can keep it from showing up all over the place.
As long as it is reasonably disruptable without having to overcommit slots (like dredge did for so long in Legacy).
If you play Pauper, compare Modern Storm to Pauper Storm. How much harder is storm to hate in Pauper. Honestly I don't mind it here because its so much easier to foil. The number of T3 wins are few and its rare to feel cheated.
In Pauper I'm mulling to find one of my 3 sideboard cards and there is no guarentee I'm stopping it even with that.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
As long as it is reasonably disruptable without having to overcommit slots (like dredge did for so long in Legacy).
If you play Pauper, compare Modern Storm to Pauper Storm. How much harder is storm to hate in Pauper. Honestly I don't mind it here because its so much easier to foil. The number of T3 wins are few and its rare to feel cheated.
In Pauper I'm mulling to find one of my 3 sideboard cards and there is no guarentee I'm stopping it even with that.
I would say "few" equals 25%-33% that I can combo off turn 3, although occasionally if I don't start with one or two 'free' spells then it could fizzle and only be for 13-17 damage or 12-16 goblins. And turn 2 wins happen about 2.5% of the time.
I agree though that, compared to pauper, there are a dozen or so viable cards to disrupt all the combos in modern, and it's operator error if you aren't running one that deals with the combo at hand.
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Quote from ClockworkSwordfish »
Had semenulative upkeep before it was fashionable. Look what you forced me to do, Wizards! IT DIDN'T HAVE TO GO DOWN LIKE THIS!
Quote from LandBoySteve »
Like I said, I can only go by my own experience, which is now 18 years. Kind of disheartening when you think you know something and you find out that you're a notch below a low grade moron.
Yeah, if there are any decks that win on turn 2 or 3 they pretty shaky as far as their strategy goes. Infect can consistently win on turn 2 or 3 as long as they're playing against a moron. Storm can get really lucky and go off on turn 3 (maybe 2, not sure), and affinity can swing for a win on turn 3 assuming they had a god hand and draw and their opponent didn't do anything to stop them. As far as I know, these are the fastest decks in modern, followed closely by exarch-twin.
Yeah, if there are any decks that win on turn 2 or 3 they pretty shaky as far as their strategy goes. Infect can consistently win on turn 2 or 3 as long as they're playing against a moron. Storm can get really lucky and go off on turn 3 (maybe 2, not sure), and affinity can swing for a win on turn 3 assuming they had a god hand and draw and their opponent didn't do anything to stop them. As far as I know, these are the fastest decks in modern, followed closely by exarch-twin.
"...the DCI's stated guideline for the Modern format was to avoid having decks that consistently win the game on turn three."
-Erik Lauer
So, I don't know if I should feel bad when I win on turn 3 (or, God forbid, turn 2) in modern. I play UR storm, and while the deck can win turn 4 a good percentage of the time, it's not uncommon to win turn 3, especially if a Pyromancer Ascension resolves turn 2.
Game 2 and 3 are more difficult because of playing around hate (or implied hate), but I'm wondering if the format is actually healthy now when I win game 1 on turn 3, and very rarely on turn 2.
And what could they ban? Pyromancer Ascension? Serum Visions?
You must have a different definition of "not uncommon".
I did a ton of playtesting with one of my pro-tour friends (and the other guys playtesting with him). I was the resident storm and pod guy. I was made to keep track of how fast I won on games with and without disruption being lobbed at me (we all did). Even with hyper-ascension the proportion of turn 3 wins (out of the 40+ games I played with it) was only around 1 out of every 10 games.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Yeah, if there are any decks that win on turn 2 or 3 they pretty shaky as far as their strategy goes. Infect can consistently win on turn 2 or 3 as long as they're playing against a moron. Storm can get really lucky and go off on turn 3 (maybe 2, not sure), and affinity can swing for a win on turn 3 assuming they had a god hand and draw and their opponent didn't do anything to stop them. As far as I know, these are the fastest decks in modern, followed closely by exarch-twin.
My Bant deck has a couple of ways it can swing for kill on turn 3. It's not easy but it's not really insanely hard either.
The "Glass Cannon Griselbrand" thread in Deck Creation contains a deck capable of very rare turn 1 wins, uncommon turn 2 wins, and surprisingly consistent turn 3 wins. I've been testing it and it looks pretty scary. It can't really beat a hand full of Spell Pierces and Duresses, but it can pretty much run over most other things.
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
here is my t2 win; T1- forest + arbor elf, T2- Forest + Utopia Sprawl on untapped forest naming blue, add 2 to mana pool, untap add 4 to mana pool cast Freed from the real, then BAMIEEEEEEE infinite mana, then to finish something like Enshrined Memories. silly deck but fun sometimes,
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Standard: pft, i love to see my cards depreciate in value once they rotate :S
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
t3 wins are possible even with fair decks:
on the draw
t1 goblin guide, hit. 18
t2 double bolt, hit with guide, 10
t2 triple bolt, hit with guide. -1
replace the t2 bolts with guides and you can win on the play
if you count damage from featchs/shocks then you can win with 1 less card.
If a glass cannon combo deck isn't faster than a burn deck, then is unplayable, they shouldn't ban anything(combo cards, that is).
Yeah, I've got a mono red artifact aggro (waiting on my Hellkites to arrive:D) that can deal lethal damage as early as turn three occasionally but consistently on turn four. It's no doubt tougher without blazing shoal. I think pyro ascension storm decks can go off by turn three, but I don't have experience playing that deck (or combo in general). I'm fairly a fairly straightforward aggro player.
You must have a different definition of "not uncommon".
I did a ton of playtesting with one of my pro-tour friends (and the other guys playtesting with him). I was the resident storm and pod guy. I was made to keep track of how fast I won on games with and without disruption being lobbed at me (we all did). Even with hyper-ascension the proportion of turn 3 wins (out of the 40+ games I played with it) was only around 1 out of every 10 games.
people have lied and exaggerated the consistency and speed of decks so often in magic history. i remember testing out a Spanish Inquisition decklist that claimed a 70% win rate on the play turn 1 (i don't remember if that was through force of will but i assumed it wasn't). without force i got a 30% win rate (6 games out of 20 were won on turn 1 play).
oftentimes these supposed statistics are just wild guessing at how often the god hands come down based on anecdotal evidence and bias in an attempt to sell the deck as better than it actually is.
and it's not just turn 1-2-3 win rates, it's happened with deck matchups too. all too often two decks claim to have a 60% win rate against each other; a sign to the reasonable man that something has gone horribly wrong or nobody knows how to do basic math anymore. somebody is lying, and in all likelihood it's both.
people have lied and exaggerated the consistency and speed of decks so often in magic history. i remember testing out a Spanish Inquisition decklist that claimed a 70% win rate on the play turn 1 (i don't remember if that was through force of will but i assumed it wasn't). without force i got a 30% win rate (6 games out of 20 were won on turn 1 play).
oftentimes these supposed statistics are just wild guessing at how often the god hands come down based on anecdotal evidence and bias in an attempt to sell the deck as better than it actually is.
and it's not just turn 1-2-3 win rates, it's happened with deck matchups too. all too often two decks claim to have a 60% win rate against each other; a sign to the reasonable man that something has gone horribly wrong or nobody knows how to do basic math anymore. somebody is lying, and in all likelihood it's both.
Haha, yeah. I can't tell you how many times guys in this forum who have been testing "controlling gifts storm" have made up a bunch of bull**** about how good thier deck is.
Can't tell you how many times people have been talking about how that red miracle wheel of fortune card can increase the speed of the deck (it didn't and hasn't seen play since). As someone who loves U/R storm and seen it all claimed (apaulogy claiming that storm was getting consistent turn 2/3 wins, others claming the deck was unbeatable, ect...) very few of these god claims pan out.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Goryo's Vengeance into Griselbrand is definitely a real combo in a sense that most of the combo decks in Modern are not. If the deck hits this board state on turn 2, and there's no Spell Pierce/Spell Snare/Thoughtseize/Duress/Inquisition/Remand/Mana Leak/Path to Exile/Dismember/etc. to stop it, the game is basically over. Of course, lots of people currently play those cards, so the deck is not actually very likely to succeed in a large tournament. But people should keep in mind that it exists ... it doesn't need to get THAT lucky to go off and just win against a fair-playing opponent 2 games out of 3.
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Goryo's Vengeance into Griselbrand is definitely a real combo in a sense that most of the combo decks in Modern are not. If the deck hits this board state on turn 2, and there's no Spell Pierce/Spell Snare/Thoughtseize/Duress/Inquisition/Remand/Mana Leak/Path to Exile/Dismember/etc. to stop it, the game is basically over. Of course, lots of people currently play those cards, so the deck is not actually very likely to succeed in a large tournament. But people should keep in mind that it exists ... it doesn't need to get THAT lucky to go off and just win against a fair-playing opponent 2 games out of 3.
Yeah, but what if you have the Colonnade + fetch hand? Are you going to have the spider sense and lay fetch instead of colonnade? I can see a lot of people keeping a strong hand and losing turn 2-3 to that deck.
Worth noting with spirit guide they can actually win on the play, turn 1 (spirit guide into looting discard gris, black land, second guide, vengeance - find fury of the horde)
Say you have an opener of Colonnade, Haunt, Cascade Bluffs, Snare, Visions, Snapcaster, Geist, Bolt. Seems fine, right?
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Standard: UB UB control (bad, but at least I crush control) UWR tempo.
Modern: BUG teachings UGW Cloudstone Value
EDH: UBR Thraximundar UBW Sharuum, the Hegemon (fair deck, I swear) UB Dralnu, Lich Lord BG Savra, Queen of the Golgari RUG Intet, the Dreamer
The fact that Griselbrand combo isn't a hugely popular deck is relevant. The main issue with these decks are consistency, because you need to be drawing 1 of 4 and 1 of 4 in a short period of time to go off, and it can get disrupted easily by a single counterspell. I'm not saying the deck is bad or anything, just that it doesn't win reliably on turn 2 or turn 3. If you go off on turn 1, your opponent can't really sit there and complain that he didn't leave up the Spell Snare, because honestly, they would have had to have drawn the nuts. Personally, I never argue when losing to the nuts.
In particular with that opening hand the above poster stated, you're generally not playing a fetch on turn 1 and leaving it there. You're going to either play the Colonnade, or play the Serum Visions. To be fair with the deck though, they don't play any manlands or filters, so it'd probably see a first turn fetch to Serum Visions.
If I see a first turn Faithless Looting, I'm going to suspect some sort of combo deck. It'll most likely be Storm in my opinion, unless it's a land that suggests otherwise, such as Blackcleave Cliffs. Either way, the Spell Snare is going to be good, as lots of cards in those combo decks are going to cost 2, such as Pyromancer Ascension, Manamorphose or Goryo's Vengeance. And again, I'm not going to leave up a first turn Spell Snare with a Colonnade and Serum Visions in hand. The decks in this format that win on turn 1 like that are just this deck, at some abysmal rate.
There will always be decks in a format with good combo decks that win early, it's just a matter of whether it wins often enough or not, and how reliable it is. In particular, this deck faces much of the same Storm hate, and gets shut down by it. Turn 1 Cage or Relic? Yeah, you're going to be in a lot of trouble.
I honestly think that Storm might be a little too powerful, but it's odd how nobody is playing it. It's very good against Pod, it'll win before they can win. They have only a couple of MB answers to it, and they're not going to do much. The deck can consistently win before turn 4. I believe it wins roughly half of the time before turn 4, maybe a little less. A deck that has that potential with that percentage is probably too powerful.
The reason Storm is not broken right now is because of the hate it sees. It's much like Dredge in Legacy, where you'll board Storm hate just to be on the safe side. Not boarding Storm hate and not playing Blue is a death wish, and even if you play blue, them resolving their Pyromancer Ascension is probably game. Still, because people are going to board 3-5 cards for you, in addition to what may already be in the deck (Thalia, for example), the deck becomes quite reasonable.
Yeah, but what if you have the Colonnade + fetch hand? Are you going to have the spider sense and lay fetch instead of colonnade? I can see a lot of people keeping a strong hand and losing turn 2-3 to that deck.
Worth noting with spirit guide they can actually win on the play, turn 1 (spirit guide into looting discard gris, black land, second guide, vengeance - find fury of the horde)
Say you have an opener of Colonnade, Haunt, Cascade Bluffs, Snare, Visions, Snapcaster, Geist, Bolt. Seems fine, right?
That's an 8 card hand but even then game 2&3 that would be a super snap mull vs all combo decks. Game 1 on the draw mull even with 8... On the play lets just say that hand w/o visions is a "meh" keep.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Goryo's Vengeance into Griselbrand is definitely a real combo in a sense that most of the combo decks in Modern are not. If the deck hits this board state on turn 2, and there's no Spell Pierce/Spell Snare/Thoughtseize/Duress/Inquisition/Remand/Mana Leak/Path to Exile/Dismember/etc. to stop it, the game is basically over. Of course, lots of people currently play those cards, so the deck is not actually very likely to succeed in a large tournament. But people should keep in mind that it exists ... it doesn't need to get THAT lucky to go off and just win against a fair-playing opponent 2 games out of 3.
This is my problem with it, you really don't need that much luck to steal (Yes, steal, imo) games from people playing Zoo or other fair decks. Off a very basic, simplistic combo.
This is my problem with it, you really don't need that much luck to steal (Yes, steal, imo) games from people playing Zoo or other fair decks. Off a very basic, simplistic combo.
First off your childish use of the word "steal" is troubling and completely arbitrary. Its correct to say that Storm or Gris combo has a favorable matchup against Zoo, not that it "steals" anything. Your use of the derogritory term "steal" can be as easily applied to any set of lopsided matchups.
Would you say that fea "steal" wins from storm with thier ability to play everything at instant speed with a wall of near endless counterspells?
Does burn "steal" wins from Pod Combo with it nigh unending stream of creature removal?
If "no" to any of those, then you can not claim consistency in your vocabulary.
There is no such thing as a "fair" deck in modern when you reach anything at and past tier2. There is absolutely nothing that a decent deck in modern can not interact with, and if your deck can not interact with it then its not properly biult or biult in such a way that its okay to give up a certian matchup to create favor in other matchups (this is actually exactly what storm does. It gives up almost any hope of winning against fea, tempo, ect... to gain extrodinarliy favorable matchups against tron, zoo, ect...). How is that "stealing" or too unfair? It seems like the definition of fair to me in the sense that Storm gives up so much in certian matchups (easy disruption leading to bad matchups against tempo and fea decks and much more difficult g2's) to gain that much more against other decks.
Its probably the same with the Gris combo.
A balance is kept, a it gives up som stuff to gain other stuff.
All in all I don't mean to be a douch (not here at least), but Im just tired of hearing peopel talking bad about decks that are fair (relatively speaking when compared to the rest of the crazyness and unfairness in modern).
If you're gonna complain about wins being "stolen" then a mutch bigger culprit exists in Affinity.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
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-Erik Lauer
So, I don't know if I should feel bad when I win on turn 3 (or, God forbid, turn 2) in modern. I play UR storm, and while the deck can win turn 4 a good percentage of the time, it's not uncommon to win turn 3, especially if a Pyromancer Ascension resolves turn 2.
Game 2 and 3 are more difficult because of playing around hate (or implied hate), but I'm wondering if the format is actually healthy now when I win game 1 on turn 3, and very rarely on turn 2.
And what could they ban? Pyromancer Ascension? Serum Visions?
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
CG
how is this relevant? infect has won on t2 or 3 way before rancor was spoiled? remember when the assault strobe infect got popular and people talked about it for a few days? I don't see the point of posting something like this when this happens all the time. this thread was about ur storm not infect btw. i mentioned infect as another deck that likes to win on t2 or 3 when it gets the chance.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
As long as it is reasonably disruptable without having to overcommit slots (like dredge did for so long in Legacy).
If you play Pauper, compare Modern Storm to Pauper Storm. How much harder is storm to hate in Pauper. Honestly I don't mind it here because its so much easier to foil. The number of T3 wins are few and its rare to feel cheated.
In Pauper I'm mulling to find one of my 3 sideboard cards and there is no guarentee I'm stopping it even with that.
I would say "few" equals 25%-33% that I can combo off turn 3, although occasionally if I don't start with one or two 'free' spells then it could fizzle and only be for 13-17 damage or 12-16 goblins. And turn 2 wins happen about 2.5% of the time.
I agree though that, compared to pauper, there are a dozen or so viable cards to disrupt all the combos in modern, and it's operator error if you aren't running one that deals with the combo at hand.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Dont forget burn...
I did a ton of playtesting with one of my pro-tour friends (and the other guys playtesting with him). I was the resident storm and pod guy. I was made to keep track of how fast I won on games with and without disruption being lobbed at me (we all did). Even with hyper-ascension the proportion of turn 3 wins (out of the 40+ games I played with it) was only around 1 out of every 10 games.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
My Bant deck has a couple of ways it can swing for kill on turn 3. It's not easy but it's not really insanely hard either.
Most of my decks: http://tappedout.net/users/thraashman/
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
on the draw
t1 goblin guide, hit. 18
t2 double bolt, hit with guide, 10
t2 triple bolt, hit with guide. -1
replace the t2 bolts with guides and you can win on the play
if you count damage from featchs/shocks then you can win with 1 less card.
If a glass cannon combo deck isn't faster than a burn deck, then is unplayable, they shouldn't ban anything(combo cards, that is).
people have lied and exaggerated the consistency and speed of decks so often in magic history. i remember testing out a Spanish Inquisition decklist that claimed a 70% win rate on the play turn 1 (i don't remember if that was through force of will but i assumed it wasn't). without force i got a 30% win rate (6 games out of 20 were won on turn 1 play).
oftentimes these supposed statistics are just wild guessing at how often the god hands come down based on anecdotal evidence and bias in an attempt to sell the deck as better than it actually is.
and it's not just turn 1-2-3 win rates, it's happened with deck matchups too. all too often two decks claim to have a 60% win rate against each other; a sign to the reasonable man that something has gone horribly wrong or nobody knows how to do basic math anymore. somebody is lying, and in all likelihood it's both.
Can't tell you how many times people have been talking about how that red miracle wheel of fortune card can increase the speed of the deck (it didn't and hasn't seen play since). As someone who loves U/R storm and seen it all claimed (apaulogy claiming that storm was getting consistent turn 2/3 wins, others claming the deck was unbeatable, ect...) very few of these god claims pan out.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Yeah, but what if you have the Colonnade + fetch hand? Are you going to have the spider sense and lay fetch instead of colonnade? I can see a lot of people keeping a strong hand and losing turn 2-3 to that deck.
Worth noting with spirit guide they can actually win on the play, turn 1 (spirit guide into looting discard gris, black land, second guide, vengeance - find fury of the horde)
Say you have an opener of Colonnade, Haunt, Cascade Bluffs, Snare, Visions, Snapcaster, Geist, Bolt. Seems fine, right?
UB UB control (bad, but at least I crush control)
UWR tempo.
Modern:
BUG teachings
UGW Cloudstone Value
EDH:
UBR Thraximundar
UBW Sharuum, the Hegemon (fair deck, I swear)
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
BG Savra, Queen of the Golgari
RUG Intet, the Dreamer
In particular with that opening hand the above poster stated, you're generally not playing a fetch on turn 1 and leaving it there. You're going to either play the Colonnade, or play the Serum Visions. To be fair with the deck though, they don't play any manlands or filters, so it'd probably see a first turn fetch to Serum Visions.
If I see a first turn Faithless Looting, I'm going to suspect some sort of combo deck. It'll most likely be Storm in my opinion, unless it's a land that suggests otherwise, such as Blackcleave Cliffs. Either way, the Spell Snare is going to be good, as lots of cards in those combo decks are going to cost 2, such as Pyromancer Ascension, Manamorphose or Goryo's Vengeance. And again, I'm not going to leave up a first turn Spell Snare with a Colonnade and Serum Visions in hand. The decks in this format that win on turn 1 like that are just this deck, at some abysmal rate.
There will always be decks in a format with good combo decks that win early, it's just a matter of whether it wins often enough or not, and how reliable it is. In particular, this deck faces much of the same Storm hate, and gets shut down by it. Turn 1 Cage or Relic? Yeah, you're going to be in a lot of trouble.
I honestly think that Storm might be a little too powerful, but it's odd how nobody is playing it. It's very good against Pod, it'll win before they can win. They have only a couple of MB answers to it, and they're not going to do much. The deck can consistently win before turn 4. I believe it wins roughly half of the time before turn 4, maybe a little less. A deck that has that potential with that percentage is probably too powerful.
The reason Storm is not broken right now is because of the hate it sees. It's much like Dredge in Legacy, where you'll board Storm hate just to be on the safe side. Not boarding Storm hate and not playing Blue is a death wish, and even if you play blue, them resolving their Pyromancer Ascension is probably game. Still, because people are going to board 3-5 cards for you, in addition to what may already be in the deck (Thalia, for example), the deck becomes quite reasonable.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
That's an 8 card hand but even then game 2&3 that would be a super snap mull vs all combo decks. Game 1 on the draw mull even with 8... On the play lets just say that hand w/o visions is a "meh" keep.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
This is my problem with it, you really don't need that much luck to steal (Yes, steal, imo) games from people playing Zoo or other fair decks. Off a very basic, simplistic combo.
First off your childish use of the word "steal" is troubling and completely arbitrary. Its correct to say that Storm or Gris combo has a favorable matchup against Zoo, not that it "steals" anything. Your use of the derogritory term "steal" can be as easily applied to any set of lopsided matchups.
Would you say that fea "steal" wins from storm with thier ability to play everything at instant speed with a wall of near endless counterspells?
Does burn "steal" wins from Pod Combo with it nigh unending stream of creature removal?
If "no" to any of those, then you can not claim consistency in your vocabulary.
There is no such thing as a "fair" deck in modern when you reach anything at and past tier2. There is absolutely nothing that a decent deck in modern can not interact with, and if your deck can not interact with it then its not properly biult or biult in such a way that its okay to give up a certian matchup to create favor in other matchups (this is actually exactly what storm does. It gives up almost any hope of winning against fea, tempo, ect... to gain extrodinarliy favorable matchups against tron, zoo, ect...). How is that "stealing" or too unfair? It seems like the definition of fair to me in the sense that Storm gives up so much in certian matchups (easy disruption leading to bad matchups against tempo and fea decks and much more difficult g2's) to gain that much more against other decks.
Its probably the same with the Gris combo.
A balance is kept, a it gives up som stuff to gain other stuff.
All in all I don't mean to be a douch (not here at least), but Im just tired of hearing peopel talking bad about decks that are fair (relatively speaking when compared to the rest of the crazyness and unfairness in modern).
If you're gonna complain about wins being "stolen" then a mutch bigger culprit exists in Affinity.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn