Modern combo decks aren't categorically unfair. If they were, the post-sideboard match-up shouldn't be as hard as they are, and I would hardly call pushing through combo hate a simple auto-pilot win. Not even Griselbrand Reanimate commands enough consistency for that. If you're facing lists that powerful, please do share; I'd love to give those decks a run.
IMO, Modern could use more control archetypes, but the general aggro-control-combo balance of power hasn't been horribly disrupted.
any graveyard hate can disrupt it though, as well as any counter or removal that can hit Griselbrand. Its a pretty strong deck and I can see it to start placing, but it is pretty easy to foil.
I've been gauntleting a storm on cockatrice the last two nights and out of I think 16 game 1s, I won 13 of them (In other words, I only lost 3 game 1s), and 6 of those wins were turn 3. Games 2 and 3 are not fun to play lol, so I'm only about 60% matchwise...but against blue decks ( 2 of my 3 game 1 losses) the MW% is horrendous, something like less than 30%.
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
I personally have no problems with the occasional turn 2/3 win. Almost no amount of bannings will prevent some deck from having some certain nut draw that beats the turn 4 rule. As long as there aren't any decks consistently winning the game (reducing opponents life to 0, or milling them) before turn 4, then it's fine in my eyes.
Yep. Turn 1-3 wins are going to happen. Some people just get lucky that way. Playing a deck that is capable of it helps greatly also. It doesnt help to say this shouldnt happen, or we will be faced with a huge ban list.
While Storm does have a turn 2-4 win (2 if you're playing Pyromancer Ascension, it does happen), there are other decks in the format that has a turn 1 win. I've been testing a combo deck lately that does win sometimes on turn 1. That said, it's easy to hate out, and much less consistent than Storm.
This is what they know. There aren't enough cards in the format for combo to make a turn 1 win reliable to any extent, nor a turn 2 win. They might get a little too many turn 3 wins, but the only real ways to get rid of them is going to hinder those decks so that people don't play them. And if you look at recent GP results, they didn't have many Storm in day 2, I think there was one.
So the format is actually fine where it is. If something becomes degenerate and wins fairly often before turn 4, then we might want to do something, but there aren't many decks that do that. And again, all of the decks that have wins that early are also going to get destroyed by the hate.
While they will be destroyed by the hate. If said combo doesnt get banninhs and is consistant then it will require a lot of sb slots. Like dredge back in the day. That also makes for unfun times. You use to have 15 sb slots now you only have 6. Sucks.
t1 land, nettle sentinel
t2 land, nettle, heritage druid, third nettle, another 1 drop, regal force, draw a bunch, play some more elves, find a second regal force and cast it, keep it going until you have 15 mana, then hardcast emrakul.
Yeah, if there are any decks that win on turn 2 or 3 they pretty shaky as far as their strategy goes. Infect can consistently win on turn 2 or 3 as long as they're playing against a moron. Storm can get really lucky and go off on turn 3 (maybe 2, not sure), and affinity can swing for a win on turn 3 assuming they had a god hand and draw and their opponent didn't do anything to stop them. As far as I know, these are the fastest decks in modern, followed closely by exarch-twin.
not to be off topic but do you think theres a way to get hellcarver demon out faster? in legacy I can get him out and swinging on turn 2 or 3 every time, but modern i just cant figure it out. Ive also use semblance anvil with a cheap demon to lower the cost, but theres got to be a faster way? your comment made me wonder if it was even possible in modern for a 2nd or 3rd turn win with hellcarver demon.
IMO, Modern could use more control archetypes, but the general aggro-control-combo balance of power hasn't been horribly disrupted.
T2: Coiling Oracle
T3: Grand Architect into Pili-Pala, infinite mana, Gifts Ungiven / wincon
Chancellor of the Tangle, Simian Spirit Guide, Faithless Looting, Griselbrand, Goryo's Vengeance, Swamp
any graveyard hate can disrupt it though, as well as any counter or removal that can hit Griselbrand. Its a pretty strong deck and I can see it to start placing, but it is pretty easy to foil.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
This is what they know. There aren't enough cards in the format for combo to make a turn 1 win reliable to any extent, nor a turn 2 win. They might get a little too many turn 3 wins, but the only real ways to get rid of them is going to hinder those decks so that people don't play them. And if you look at recent GP results, they didn't have many Storm in day 2, I think there was one.
So the format is actually fine where it is. If something becomes degenerate and wins fairly often before turn 4, then we might want to do something, but there aren't many decks that do that. And again, all of the decks that have wins that early are also going to get destroyed by the hate.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Mountain, Simian Spirit Guide, Desperate Ritual, Seething Song, Seething Song, Undying Flames.You flip over: Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, Autocthon Wurm, Blinkmoth Infusion, Blightsteel Colosus, Iname as One, It That Betrays, Mycosynth Golem, Pahtrazer of Ulamog, Ulamog, the Infinate Gyre, Darksteel Colosus, Broodstar, Curse of the Cabal, Deep-Sea Kraken, Eternal Dominion, Greater Gargadon, Jin-Gitaxis, Core Augur, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Krosan Cloudscraper, Myojin of Infinate Rage, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Oniscience, Primal Surge, Progenitus, Reaper King, Soulscour, Spawnsire of Ulamog, Stormheard, Sway of the Stars, or Time Stretch.
Turn 2-HOWEVER:
Use your Epic to reflip any of the above cards that cost 10 or more.
If you're willing to wait a turn, you could also add Orcish Librarian, since they banned top.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
20 lands has more consistancy than 0 lands. Also it's epic.
t2 land, nettle, heritage druid, third nettle, another 1 drop, regal force, draw a bunch, play some more elves, find a second regal force and cast it, keep it going until you have 15 mana, then hardcast emrakul.
not to be off topic but do you think theres a way to get hellcarver demon out faster? in legacy I can get him out and swinging on turn 2 or 3 every time, but modern i just cant figure it out. Ive also use semblance anvil with a cheap demon to lower the cost, but theres got to be a faster way? your comment made me wonder if it was even possible in modern for a 2nd or 3rd turn win with hellcarver demon.