[Idea]
Modern Banned List Testing
Poll: Which cards do you think can safely come off the Banned List
Log in with your Curse username to vote in this poll.
Which cards do you think can safely come off the Banned List - Multiple Choice
- Ancestral Vision 56.7% of Users - 166 votes
- Ancient Den 5.8% of Users - 17 votes
- Bitterblossom 32.8% of Users - 96 votes
- Blazing Shoal 3.1% of Users - 9 votes
- Chrome Mox 18.4% of Users - 54 votes
- Cloudpost 3.8% of Users - 11 votes
- Dark Depths 6.1% of Users - 18 votes
- Dread Return 13% of Users - 38 votes
- Glimpse of Nature 4.4% of Users - 13 votes
- Golgari Grave-Troll 34.8% of Users - 102 votes
- Great Furnace 5.5% of Users - 16 votes
- Green Sun's Zenith 25.6% of Users - 75 votes
- Hypergenesis 3.4% of Users - 10 votes
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor 23.2% of Users - 68 votes
- Mental Misstep 13% of Users - 38 votes
- Ponder 17.1% of Users - 50 votes
- Preordain 25.3% of Users - 74 votes
- Punishing Fire 5.1% of Users - 15 votes
- Rite of Flame 9.6% of Users - 28 votes
- Seat of the Synod 4.8% of Users - 14 votes
- Sensei's Divining Top 14% of Users - 41 votes
- Stoneforge Mystic 15% of Users - 44 votes
- Skullclamp 2.7% of Users - 8 votes
- Sword of the Meek 13% of Users - 38 votes
- Tree of Tales 6.8% of Users - 20 votes
- Umezawa's Jitte 11.9% of Users - 35 votes
- Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 24.6% of Users - 72 votes
- Vault of Wisphers 5.8% of Users - 17 votes
- Wild Nacatl 29.4% of Users - 86 votes
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes
This is the proper way to test. One card at a time, in popular archetypes and decks that would make use of the card. (IE Gravetroll doesn't fit into good archetypes, but could easily be used in some kind of dredge-graveyard aggro deck).
Pick one card, measure its results through a gauntlet of competitive decks. Measure how it works in those decks, and in decks the card itself enables.
Rinse and repeat, 1 card at a time, until we can draw conclusions about how "safe" a card is. Then try combinations. Stoneforge and Skullclamp/Jitte is strong than Stoneforge alone.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8476353#post8476353
I'd imagine Loam Control can run over BW Tokens fairly well, what with 3+ Seismic Assault, 2+ Flame Jab, and actual card filtering. Once it gets its (crippled without cycling lands) engine going, one Faerie Rogue token a turn is nothing.
Again, I smashed BW Tokens with Bitterblossom against RUG Tempo Thresh that was not tuned for the Ban Test Meta, and it beat BW Tokens around half the time. Granted, the 1 maindeck Bonfire of the Damned may have affected things, but sometimes, RUG Tempo Thresh counters everything and beats decks up.
I'd imagine the Jund match-up swings a fair bit in BW Tokens' favour with unbanned Bitterblossom, as I've heard from some Jund players that their W/x Tokens match-up already sucks. My personal testing is that it's still around even without Bitterblossom, Jund Charm, or Grim Lavamancer.
And UR Storm and Exarch Twin probably ignore Bitterblossom again (until the Faeries finally kill them). Bitterblossom is only good against not-so-fast aggro.
Heck, there were some times when I wished my Bitterblossom copies were Lingering Souls copies instead. Bitterblossom has no immediate impact on the board and is somewhat suicidal in multiples (I don't like sticking multiple Bobs at once). Yeah, I may be comparing a Legacy-level card to a Legacy-level card, but I'm not convinced Bitterblossom will jump BW Tokens above all the other decks. It may jump to Tier 1 instead of Tier 1.5, but it will have to share that Tier 1 with at least Delver, Pod, and Jund.
Now Bitterblossom helping Faeries--perhaps it plus Ancestral Vision will shove Faeries to Tier 0. Then again, I shoved Vision Blossom UB Faeries against Jund not tuned for the Ban Test Meta, and Jund probably won more than half the time. Heck, Jund even won one game when Faeries resolved two Ancestral Visions. (Then again, Liliana of the Veil popped her ultimate once, slicing their land count in half.)
Again, that was pre format announcement so the new cards in the format could possibly have leveled the field. But if those cards leveled the field for tokens, I would suspect they did the same thing for Fae. Fae wasnt that great of a deck in testing for the format. Adding in the exile removal we have now should weaken it even more.
I would find a way to make Greenffinity happen if I could run four Tree of Tales.
It would most likely serve to just add colorless and be an artifact, methinks. As far as I know there aren't many good cards to go in affinity that are green.
Yeah, my first instinct was Glimpse of Nature, but, duh, it's banned, haha. The only time I could see it being useful in any of my lists is splashing Ancient Grudge for the mirror...
But I love a challenge, so I'm looking at a G/x affinity list for ****s and giggles, haha.
I'm sure Affinity wouldn't mind Tarmogoyf. In Old Extended, Affinity ran Goyf, Bob, Thoughtcast, and Rise//Fall
Currently trying to discover the quickest way to get the opponent from 20 to 0.
it's not exactly a nonbo, it just doesn't do anything
It doesn't work. This is what happens:
AV has a CC of Zero.
However, AV has no casting cost. The suspend cost cannot be used as a 'casting cost' for SCM type of Flashback.
So, if you were to target it with SCM it would gain Flashback but it wouldn't have a cost. If something doesn't have a cost you cannot pay it. Similar to how you can't cast AV from your hand for zero, because you can't pay 'nothing'.
It is however, completely insane off of a Bloodbraid Elf.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Is this accurate? Ornithopter has a cost of 0 and you can cast that spell. Are they treated differently?
Ornithopter has a cost, the cost is just "0".
AV literally has no "cost", and therefore isn't a viable target I believe.
Ancestral Vision - Gives control a leg-up, and could even see play in storm (but not much.) UWR delver or UB delver could play it as well.
Dread Return - Wizards, you completely destroyed dredge when you began banning things, but I'd be interested in trying Dread Return in a dredge list or reanimator list. Unlike Grave-troll, there are multiple uses.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Obviously powerful. I want to test it out in control shells, tempo, or to enable a miracle deck.
Mental Misstep - We don't have force nor brainstorm to pitch this late-game. True, we can lock down turn 1 and 2 with this and snare, but I feel that without force misstep would be testable in tempo. I do worry that it will remove the few vial decks we have, but it's something that should be tested more thoroughly.
Preordain or Ponder - I get that you don't want storm to be ultra consistent, but bringing back just one of these would be an interesting boost to storm, tempo, and any blue decks.
Stoneforge Mystic - Testable toy for Death and Taxes, bant, or really any w/x aggro deck.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - If you don't want turn 3/4 combo kill, then get rid of Scapeshift if you really want to, although that deck is sub-par anyways. Test that valakut!
Now, I realize many of these choices pump tempo as much as or more than any other. This is clearly not the format we'd like, but it's looking to be a UWR tempo dominated format anyways based on the past dailies.
I'd love to test some of test in order to add more diversity to the top decks.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8476353#post8476353
Yes. It's accurate. I never said you couldn't cast AV. You can absolutely cast it. Via the Suspend trigger and other means like BBE.
What i said, which you even quoted, was that you can't pay nothing. Nothing is not a cost. It's an absence of a cost. That's why SCM doesn't work with AV given SCM's wording.
SCM says "The Flashback Cost is equal to it's mana cost." ; Therefore it's flashback cost is 'Nothing'. Not Zero. Because the mana cost of AV is Nothing. Therefore you can't pay for it's flashback, thus making it completely useless to target with SCM.
They aren't 'treated differently' Ornithopter is a completely different case. Ornithopter has a CMC of zero, and a mana cost of zero. You're allowed to pay zero. Zero != Nothing in terms of cost.
Similar to how lands have no mana cost, but have CMC zero. That's how AV has CMC zero but no cost.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
So only troll and visions?
I suppose that means "legacy" dredge, "zombie" dredge, and verious control decks. thats it?
Anyways. Good to see nacatl is number 3/4 on this list.
CG
GGT is pretty much stinkweed imp, and having him doesn't really make the current "dredge" decks much better.
Dread return, on the other hand, might have some effect, but GGT would have little to none I think.
CG
Whatever for? I'm just stating my opinion that testing GGT would give very little results, as it's pretty much the same as stinkweed imp in the decks that want it.
Does this mean people shouldn't test any cards on the banned list at all? No..