Yeah, I like terminate better because it's instant speed, and believe it or not the regeneration is relevant sometimes. Besides, Jund has maelstrom pulse for planeswalkers.
Anybody like grisly salvage? I might just buy a single tarmogoyf for my jund deck and run a couple of those to dig for it or other good Jund creatures lol.
It digs three, and will usually draw you two cards.
Assuming they don't kill it, four mana for four cards + 2 in your graveyard (and let's face it, you can use that to your advantage with SCM) is prettty good
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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With the shocklands reprinted, Modern is going to see a major boom over the next couple of years as more Standard players rotate in. I'm really excited to see what other staples are going to be reprinted.
So far, I'm loving Azorius and Izzet charms. I'm on the fence about Selesnya charm, but I can't imagine it's going to have an impact at all with better options already available for every utility: PtE, Rancor, and even Ambush Viper.
Im right in saying Selesnya Charm is aweful right? I dont want to... but there it is...
One of the modes seems largely irrelevant in Modern, which is a strike against it (The 5> power -> exile)
I don't think it's 'awful' but it doesn't have a decent relevant mode for Modern by any means. They're all pretty mediocre in this format. For limited though? It seems really really good. For Standard, i'm not sure, as i don't follow the format.
Digging 3, to draw 1 or 2 (that you don't get to choose), for cmc 4? Doesn't seem that good.
You're doing it twice.
Also, his +1 is relevant against certain decks, like Tokens, so maybe 3 times in that MU. I think digging 6 for 4 mana is really strong. Fact or Fiction doesn't even do that and it's 4cc and would probably be deemed 'Too Strong for Modern'; For another comparison Ancestral Visions is banned and only nabs 3 cards. And goes off around T3 or T4 and is much more of a headache later in the game when you really need to dig for something in < 3 turns.
It digs three, and will usually draw you two cards.
Assuming they don't kill it, four mana for four cards + 2 in your graveyard (and let's face it, you can use that to your advantage with SCM) is prettty good
Unfortunately they go to the bottom not the yard. =[
So far, I'm loving Azorius and Izzet charms. I'm on the fence about Selesnya charm, but I can't imagine it's going to have an impact at all with better options for every ability: PtE, Rancor, and even Ambush Viper.
Every charm has better options for each ability. They'd be insane if they weren't. Bant Charm is pretty overcosted compared to Dispel, Path to Exile, and Oxidize, but the fact that it does all three earns it a place in the format.
Now, that doesn't mean Selesnya Charm is good in this format. I could imagine it seeing play, but it certainly isn't especially exciting. Probably decent in Standard, probably not here.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
Are people really saying bad things about Selesnya Charm? All of those modes are potentially relevant.
Actually, I could see Zoo playing it if they drop Thalias. Kind of like the Snapcaster Flames zoo does, only with a lot more control over the combat step.
Is it the best charm? No. But it's still very nice.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
As I've said before, Jace 4.0's +1 is extremely relevant against Exarch Twin. Their only ways of dealing with him (though I need to check the rulings on whether his +1 still works if he's left the battlefield) is by comboing off with Pestermite or killing him with Grim Lavamancer. If his +1 works when he's off the battlefield, even bounce can't handle him that well, as they'll just re-cast and +1 him (if he doesn't get Remanded/Izzet Charmed/etc.).
The more I think about it, the less I dislike Selesnya Charm..
If the card were laid out like this, no one would find much reason to complain:
Selesnya Knight WG
Creature - Knight
Flash, vigilance
Sacrifice Selesnya Knight: target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn; or exile target creature with power 5 or greater.
2/2
Granted, you could never actually have a 2/2 body on the battlefield AND do one of those two things, but I think when you consider this card primarily to be a creature in the decks that will run him, it looks much better.
Well, just to be clear, those cards don't pop up in THAT many MUs. I was being pretty broad. You have Tron (both flavors, maybe), Affinity (only 4 cards in it) and Goyf decks (later in the game). So the 'removal' mode still whiffs in plenty of MUs. Granted you could probably use the Knight as an instant speed removal in other MUs, now that it think about it, it's essentially a 2cc removal spell that can hit Geist, Bob, BBE, Half of a Finks and a few other things i'm missing.
I think the pump is good in those colors, too. Trample is really nice on KotR. So i suppose my position has shifted a bit.
When is that hate bear actually relevant, though? It doesn't outright cripple any one deck like Ethersworn Canonist does, so I'll have to compare it to stuff like Gaddock Teeg here:
Teeg is relevant against RUG Tempo Thresh, UW Tempo (Caw-Blade, Restoration, etc.), UR Storm, Exarch Twin, Tron, Pod, Teachings, Gifts Control, and more. Ignoring the control archetypes, he hoses at least 8 commonly played decks (counting the UW Tempo decks as separate, each Pod deck as separate, and splitting Tron into RG Artifact Tron and UW Tron).
This knight is marginally relevant against every single archetype but probably isn't affecting a thing against a lot more of them (hoses red removal and huge creatures and that's it?). Based on the stuff in parentheses, it badly hoses RUG Tempo Thresh, UWR Delver, RDW, Exarch Twin, Jund, Pod, and RG Artifact Tron (and Zoo). Okay, fine, that's at least 9 commonly played archetypes, but the hosing sort of sucks (at least Teeg hits Storm, Twin, and Tron in the nuts).
I predict a high whiff percentage for Jund if it plays Grisly Salvage. It only plays 15-18 creatures in a 60-card deck. On average, you are hitting one creature, and if my experience playing Augur of Bolas in a 20 instant/sorcery deck is any indication, you will whiff significantly often. I am willing to play Augur of Bolas because it has a relevant body (for a 2-drop). I am not willing to play a total waste of a card.
In short, its chance of whiffing is so high that I'd rather play Wild Guess in Jund. It's card parity and digs fairly well.
Screw that; Night's Whisper is probably the better Jund option because it doesn't suck if you have no cards in hand.
Does instant speed make that much of a difference? I've certainly never seen a Jund list with Commune with Nature. Being able to find lands is nice I guess.
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I predict a high whiff percentage for Jund if it plays Grisly Salvage. It only plays 15-18 creatures in a 60-card deck. On average, you are hitting one creature, and if my experience playing Augur of Bolas in a 20 instant/sorcery deck is any indication, you will whiff significantly often. I am willing to play Augur of Bolas because it has a relevant body (for a 2-drop). I am not willing to play a total waste of a card.
In short, its chance of whiffing is so high that I'd rather play Wild Guess in Jund. It's card parity and digs fairly well.
Screw that; Night's Whisper is probably the better Jund option because it doesn't suck if you have no cards in hand.
Yeah, the whiff percentage could be high, but I dunno, I feel like I usually have at least one creature for every couple cards I draw. Plus with bob out, thats 7 whole cards to find a creature.
The point of grisly salvage isn't to dig for a creature only, it's to dig for a creature and then put a bunch of crap in the graveyard. Jund doesn't play from the graveyard, but Rock decks with Loam, Haakon/Knight, Bloodghast, or Lingering Souls have gained a significant card - basically any deck that is built to abuse Liliana can very much use this dual functional card.
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
The point of grisly salvage isn't to dig for a creature only, it's to dig for a creature and then put a bunch of crap in the graveyard. Jund doesn't play from the graveyard, but Rock decks with Loam, Haakon/Knight, Bloodghast, or Lingering Souls have gained a significant card - basically any deck that is built to abuse Liliana can very much use this dual functional card.
pretty sub par considering the izzet charm...
R// Thalia Zoo
G// Exalted Face Crush
R/ Vampires
Coming soon G// Zombie Smallpox
Karn Liberated sees play in Tron. But still, for now, I would rather have Terminate. Dreadbore is a good card, though.
Yeah, I like terminate better because it's instant speed, and believe it or not the regeneration is relevant sometimes. Besides, Jund has maelstrom pulse for planeswalkers.
Anybody like grisly salvage? I might just buy a single tarmogoyf for my jund deck and run a couple of those to dig for it or other good Jund creatures lol.
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He's a mini FoF
I could see him seeing play in some Ux Control deck.
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Digging 3, to draw 1 or 2 (that you don't get to choose), for cmc 4? Doesn't seem that good.
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X
However, doing it twice does.
New Jace will be played for sure in standard, and I can see him at least getting tried out in modern, assuming they don't unban JtMS.
Maybe a creature-board storm?
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Assuming they don't kill it, four mana for four cards + 2 in your graveyard (and let's face it, you can use that to your advantage with SCM) is prettty good
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So far, I'm loving Azorius and Izzet charms. I'm on the fence about Selesnya charm, but I can't imagine it's going to have an impact at all with better options already available for every utility: PtE, Rancor, and even Ambush Viper.
CG
One of the modes seems largely irrelevant in Modern, which is a strike against it (The 5> power -> exile)
I don't think it's 'awful' but it doesn't have a decent relevant mode for Modern by any means. They're all pretty mediocre in this format. For limited though? It seems really really good. For Standard, i'm not sure, as i don't follow the format.
You're doing it twice.
Also, his +1 is relevant against certain decks, like Tokens, so maybe 3 times in that MU. I think digging 6 for 4 mana is really strong. Fact or Fiction doesn't even do that and it's 4cc and would probably be deemed 'Too Strong for Modern'; For another comparison Ancestral Visions is banned and only nabs 3 cards. And goes off around T3 or T4 and is much more of a headache later in the game when you really need to dig for something in < 3 turns.
Unfortunately they go to the bottom not the yard. =[
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Now, that doesn't mean Selesnya Charm is good in this format. I could imagine it seeing play, but it certainly isn't especially exciting. Probably decent in Standard, probably not here.
Actually, I could see Zoo playing it if they drop Thalias. Kind of like the Snapcaster Flames zoo does, only with a lot more control over the combat step.
Is it the best charm? No. But it's still very nice.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Wurmcoil Engine, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Cranial Plating creatures, Tarmogoyf on occasion, and artifacts animated by Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. So it's not irrelevant. Just not amazing like the Izzet Charm. But Izzet Charm is the best charm they have ever printed, so it's hard to compare others to it.
If the card were laid out like this, no one would find much reason to complain:
Selesnya Knight WG
Creature - Knight
Flash, vigilance
Sacrifice Selesnya Knight: target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn; or exile target creature with power 5 or greater.
2/2
Granted, you could never actually have a 2/2 body on the battlefield AND do one of those two things, but I think when you consider this card primarily to be a creature in the decks that will run him, it looks much better.
CG
It's a good card, but its modes just aren't very relevant to the format.
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Well, just to be clear, those cards don't pop up in THAT many MUs. I was being pretty broad. You have Tron (both flavors, maybe), Affinity (only 4 cards in it) and Goyf decks (later in the game). So the 'removal' mode still whiffs in plenty of MUs. Granted you could probably use the Knight as an instant speed removal in other MUs, now that it think about it, it's essentially a 2cc removal spell that can hit Geist, Bob, BBE, Half of a Finks and a few other things i'm missing.
I think the pump is good in those colors, too. Trample is really nice on KotR. So i suppose my position has shifted a bit.
Trample is more relevant than a Giant Growth.
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Teeg is relevant against RUG Tempo Thresh, UW Tempo (Caw-Blade, Restoration, etc.), UR Storm, Exarch Twin, Tron, Pod, Teachings, Gifts Control, and more. Ignoring the control archetypes, he hoses at least 8 commonly played decks (counting the UW Tempo decks as separate, each Pod deck as separate, and splitting Tron into RG Artifact Tron and UW Tron).
This knight is marginally relevant against every single archetype but probably isn't affecting a thing against a lot more of them (hoses red removal and huge creatures and that's it?). Based on the stuff in parentheses, it badly hoses RUG Tempo Thresh, UWR Delver, RDW, Exarch Twin, Jund, Pod, and RG Artifact Tron (and Zoo). Okay, fine, that's at least 9 commonly played archetypes, but the hosing sort of sucks (at least Teeg hits Storm, Twin, and Tron in the nuts).
If I wanted stuff that hosed like the knight, I'd play Spellskite or Burrenton Forge-Tender. At least they hose harder.
Grisly salvage in jund seems like it could be pretty good: dig for the creature you need at instant speed at the end of your opponents turn.
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In short, its chance of whiffing is so high that I'd rather play Wild Guess in Jund. It's card parity and digs fairly well.
Screw that; Night's Whisper is probably the better Jund option because it doesn't suck if you have no cards in hand.
Yeah, the whiff percentage could be high, but I dunno, I feel like I usually have at least one creature for every couple cards I draw. Plus with bob out, thats 7 whole cards to find a creature.
I could be wrong, but I think its worth a shot.
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-MTG Salvation.
Don't forget it will trigger Narcomoeba too.