MTG Salvation

i havent looked around much, as i am new to modern sorta, but i was wondering what folks thought about defender combo in modern? the reason being is that i saw umbral mantle and thought immediately about how it could be redundant with galvanic alchemist for untapping axebane guardian.. i need to look more, but what standard is lacking right now is a 1drop defender, and i know modern has a couple. what do you think? is it too slow for modern?

for those who dont know the combo, it is three defenders on the field, with axebane guardian as well, with galvanic alchemist paired with axebane. this lets you tap for "infinite" mana by adding 4 mana to the pool, and using 3 of it to untap axebane. umbral mantle can serve as well, providing a lil resiliency. then you can play anything you like, my favorite being Sphinx's revelation to draw almost your whole library, gain that much life, and then be able to play your whole library as well

just hoping there are things out there that can make this super dangerous. any thoughts or ideas?

[edit]oooooooooh perimeter captain! taproot kami!

here is my first version

I can't say that I like it. I don't like decks like this that need too many cards in play to win, because they become inconsistent and are easy to break. It's also way too slow, you have no acceleration and are winning on turn 4 best-case scenario and have to dodge removal.

Essentially, your deck needs an Axebane Guardian, a ton of other defenders (read: 3 total), and an artifact used to generate mana. On top of that, you then need to have an actual spell to win the game, so that's 5 different cards you need to control in order for the combo to go off. You have no way to actually accelerate into those cards, and basically just hope blocking is going to help. In a format where there are other combo decks (Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, Storm, Twin, Eggs, Living End, Scapeshift, etc), you really can't assume that trying to win with a fair combo is going to work. Your deck can fold to a bunch of cards and be in trouble.

It folds to spot removal, like Path and Bolt. You try to go off, they Bolt in response to the Umbral Mantle. If they're playing Path, they can wait until you cast the Soul's Fire if they want. Karn is going to kill you as well, since it's hitting the key combo piece(s). Even if they're not waiting, they literally hit your Axebane and you're waiting until you draw another.

The thing is, your combo has to play at least one of the two pieces that lets it go off (Axebane), and then have it untap, and I don't like this kind of combo. Why would you play a combo deck that has to leave the combo in play and pass the turn, when you could play one that doesn't have to? It just doesn't offer enough power to be worth it.

It's also too all-in to fight hate cards. And the thing is, even Bolt and Path are hate cards, which sucks for you, because they're very good cards in the format. Your deck needs too much in the way of actual cards to try to fight hate. If anything, I think you should be pulling out higher end defenders for real spells that can help you find your combo. Not entirely sure what that is, probably 4 Deathrite Shaman and Birds as accelerants.

I do like that you're at least trying to come up with something, but I'm afraid to say that I really don't think it has the capability to go far in this format.

yeah i took out the soul's fire, and went a different route. thanks for the thoughts though! its just something ive been thinking about, im not sure about the meta really

Overgrown Battlement would like to say hello.

Too help win the match in different ways, you can always throw in some soul sister cards since it looks like you gain life a lot. Also, can't find the creature, but it has defender and you can pay 2 mana, tap it, and it deals X dmg to target player equal to the amount of defenders you have out.


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Quote from Brentane

Too help win the match in different ways, you can always throw in some soul sister cards since it looks like you gain life a lot. Also, can't find the creature, but it has defender and you can pay 2 mana, tap it, and it deals X dmg to target player equal to the amount of defenders you have out.


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He's thinking of Vent Sentinel. I saw the decklist and I think you could go Naya and run Vent Sentinel, or more likely Bant for Wall of Denial and Plumeveil. Some of the choices in TC's list are a little suboptimal and at the very least could probably be replaced by Plumeveil (and Overgrown Battlement, of course).

It also suffers from the usual "too few lands" syndrome, but I see potential for a fun deck that can steal some games at an FNM.

Let me help you out a bit. I rough drafted this. Try this and go from here.


Link to deck @ TappedOut.net

Unless you're playing this to be different, how is this in any way better than, say, Melira-pod? You need three defenders (including Axebane Guardian and/or Overgrown Battlements) and an untapper to go off, and an output for your victory. This entire deck is stoppable by a single removal spell or even bolt effect. Why play this deck? Play something that does what a current deck does better or differently, or play the good deck itself.

Quote from arbitraryarmor

Unless you're playing this to be different, how is this in any way better than, say, Melira-pod? You need three defenders (including Axebane Guardian and/or Overgrown Battlements) and an untapper to go off, and an output for your victory. This entire deck is stoppable by a single removal spell or even bolt effect. Why play this deck? Play something that does what a current deck does better or differently, or play the good deck itself.

I think he wanted to build it for fun. He's not looking to win a Pro tour here.

i have one built that is standard legal ... it is mostly for fun ... i have included a one of on each X cost card in it along with an avacyn and a drop or two of fog cards. it has won several times when it catches person off guard for the first game but normally not much after that ...

Viable as a Tier 2 idea? Maybe. Better than one of the many other combo decks in Modern. I have my doubts.

How does Umbra Mantle work with Tree of Redemption? If it works like I think it does you can get infinite(that is to say finite but arbitrarily large) life along with your infinite mana.



For a budget alternative:
replace 4xDryad Arbor 4x Temple Garden and 4x Stomping Ground
with 4x Boros Guildgate 4x Selesnya Guildgate 4x Gruul Guildgate
and replace 4x Traproot Kami with 4x Gatecreeper Vine

warmongers chairiot and tree of redemption is a decent enough modern defender combo, definatly not tier 1. I've had some success with it just goofing around. swap your life total with the tree and swing for 20. you might start here and add other defender tricks.

Quote from danman

warmongers chairiot and tree of redemption is a decent enough modern defender combo, definatly not tier 1. I've had some success with it just goofing around. swap your life total with the tree and swing for 20. you might start here and add other defender tricks.

You mean swing for 2?

Quote from Illusionist

You mean swing for 2?

right, you need doran srry don't know how i forgot that. lolz

Defender combo in modern should consist of this shell - If you want to go infinite from this point, you can play stuff like mantle, but you want to play enough mana producing walls to amass stupid volumes of mana. From there you can either just cast Emrakul, or do other fun silly stuff with lots of mana.

I liked running a set of Chord of calling. I was running a bant list with phantasmal image as well. Copying a Wprldspine Wurm is always fun

Freed from the real for untaping. Some of the best walls available:fog bank, guard gomazoa, order of the stars, wall of denial, wall of shards (since youre going infinite you dont care about upkeep cost). Walking archive can be used to draw cards, gets stronger, if you go infinite yo can make him gigantous and pass to win

Looking back the defender deck doesn't feel like a good modern deck but an extended fun deck seems possible.

Quote from Bronson

I liked running a set of Chord of calling. I was running a bant list with phantasmal image as well. Copying a Wprldspine Wurm is always fun

Flying spagehti moster was more fun

Normally, I don't advocate decks like this However, I once got to live the dream of casting worldspine wurm off of axebane guardians, so I am slightly intrigued.
I think I would go for a UG build that also incorporates the grand architect, pili-pala combo:


I wasn't sure how realistic 4 defenders at a time was, so I used freed from the real (unfortunately it doesn't really work with overgrown battlement). The drift of phantasms tutors for all of the combo pieces except pili-pala. You win by targeting your opponent with an infinite blue sun's zenith. The Inkwell leviathan is a backup plan in case you can't combo off. You can ramp into it with your defenders or grand architect.