I wouldn't be surprised if stores get a couple cases. Heck this could have a print run the size of 8th Edition, and it would still be really small compared with today.
This is one of the best comments on this whole Modern Masters discussion growing all over the internet. I think this is a very plausible and realistic view of what can (and probably will) happen.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I don't like foils, and even if I don't play paper anymore, the instant this set is released, I'll buy my paper Goyf playset just in case I want to play paper magic some day.
I wouldn't be surprised if stores get a couple cases. Heck this could have a print run the size of 8th Edition, and it would still be really small compared with today.
That's what i tried to point in various places where Modern Masters was being discussed. Even being a limited "small" print, it will not be something like FTV.
There will be surely enough to make some impact on the prices of the most expensive cards.
Nothing apocalyptic like Goyf or Bob falling to 10$, but at last a good reduction. Goyf will still be the more expensive card in modern, but not that high as he is now.
And mythic was stated not to be a display of the set's strongest cards for constructed.
This is a comment that's regularly made on these forums and always takes - to an extreme extent - MaRo's initial comments on the Mythic rarity out of context.
Quote from MaRo "The Year of Living Changerously" 02JUN2008 »
This now leads us to the next question: How are cards split between rare and mythic rare? Or more to the point, what kind of cards are going to become mythic rares? We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards.
The original paragraph had "not" italicized for emphasis, but the more important word in that last sentence has been bolded importance: "just."
This means that, no, not every mythic rare in a given set will be a tournament/constructed quality card. But some will. Sometimes many will. To accuse WotC of "breaking promises" - as many on these forums have - for misinterpreting this quote is not constructive.
Likely this will have print run sizes similar to that of a current set, but instead of many over the course of a year, there will only be a couple of waves. That way everyone has a chance to get some, yet there won't be enough to crash prices.
I'm hoping that this deflates the chase Legacy rares to more acceptable levels.
I have a playset of Strip Mine and Gate To Phyrexia from Antiquities. For me they are like buried treasure. I put Gate To Phyrexia into play in front of experienced players who had to turn the card around to read them. With mechanics like undying sure to be revisited in the future, and powerful token generator mechanics like populate, Gate To Phyrexia is certainly one of the most under appreciated Reserved List cards that there is.
Some other cards to watch out for are In The Eye Of Chaos, Arboria, Land Equilibrium, Mana Vortex, City Of Shadows (this was looking good with proliferate but came to nought, maybe some day it will get more broken), there are lots of cards like this which are in the vicinity of bent, like Drop Of Honey in some builds of Lands.dec or Enchantress.
but this is a warning to all you Legacy players out there. What you think your cards are worth is mostly driven by speculation. Consider the low value of Lake Of The Dead compared to Force Of Will, or cards like Elvish Spirit Guide . Elvish Spirit Guide might not be so snappy as FOW, it is usually found for maybe $2 or $3.
This is the future of Legacy staples particularly 3rd Edition dual lands which has a comparable print run to 4th Edition.
You should consider the state of people's collection binders as a whole.
Face it. Many of the cards are way over valued.
if people won't be needing to invest $1000 into decks anymore, than that speculation will go away.
Why the hell should I be able to scoop up Serendib Efreet from Arabian Nights for $30? Do people truly know what they are buying and speculating on?
At least if I own playsets and binders of Arabian Nights, as opposed to Revised, I am not a fool, no matter how little speculation people might put into Arabian Nights as a set, I am not the idiot.
In the future,
Modern will cause a radical re-evalution of Legacy and Vintage staples.
I will appreciate dumping Modern cards for Legacy cards, but don't think that WOTC will print spells in quantities that will make that Modern Masters set unattractive. It will be a highly collectible set and I hope will re-evaluate the truth worth of their collections taken in whole, considering their actual true scarcity - not their speculative value - and Modern will help to rebalance the cost of entry for Legacy.
Modern will become an example for the Legacy price of entry to follow.
I'll close by saying something I would like to be given some credit for that I was right all along,
Modern will demonstrate what a collectible is.
Modern will make Magic cards more valuable.
Modern will develop a sense for aesthetic, nostalgia, and appreciation
that the game has sorely lacked.
My Strip Mine playset, sometimes it cries like the Virgin Mary man
to build a RWU delver i don't have to buy them NOW but i would not like to wait months, either let's say in a month or so i'd like to have 'em all. Please note i am italian and i buy from an italian online market where other gamers trade their cards, so prices are not made by shops and usually they are kinda fair...
So, Misty Rainforest and Marsh Flats are both called fetchlands, due to the fact that they fetch a land card from your deck. These will not be reprinted within Modern Masters, but could see reprints after RtR rotates or within the next set (who really knows). If you want them within a month, I'd say go for it.
Steam Vents and Sacred Foundry are both shocklands. Sacred foundry you should wait for the next set, Gatecrash, to release as it's being reprinted within that set. Steam Vents was just reprinted in Return to Ravnica.
The first time you get a goyf foil you will think it worth 7$. Seeing as all packs has foils would it be wrong to think the chance of a mythic foil would be the same as the chance to just get a regular mythic. Is it going to be possible to open two mythics in a pack (A foil one and a regular one.) I really wonder how the foils rarity is going to work.
Also if it is indeed meant to be drafted then it would have to have limited fodder of some sort. If the keep the rares and the mythics decent you may not mind of a few of the commons and uncommons are more geared towards the drafting aspect. Also path and bolt in the same set could make for some interesting limited matches.
Take a look at the MTG: Cube. That set is meant to be drafted at a highly competitive level and there is ZERO fodder in the cube. And it was said that this will be on the same level as it. So i feel like it's not too much of a leap of faith to expect every card to be playable at least the FNM level.
First and foremost, the set is packed with the greatest hits from over six years' worth of expansions. The power-level of the cards in these boosters is very high compared to the average
Seems like they are being a tad overly cautious, Chronicles was another time and animal. I LOVED it and it still didn't contain the best cards of the time any how, so idk how it was so damaging to collectors. Nowadays collectors are such a minute part of thier market, not just anyone who had been playing for two year like in 95. The mythic rarity fixes over abundance in itself, and I find it too rare in fact. How many people did they flat out screw over banning Jace n Sfm, yet the game popularity grows. This set is just gona be at tease in the end Im sure.
Seems like they are being a tad overly cautious, Chronicles was another time and animal. I LOVED it and it still didn't contain the best cards of the time any how, so idk how it was so damaging to collectors.
While I eventually grew to like being able to grab mishra's factories for cheep...
17-year-old me wasn't amused when the set of elder dragon legends i'd paid $65 for (borrowed from my parents because "it's an investment!") was suddenly worth $5.
Of course, it didn't help things that the dragons were nigh-worthless in play value. But, ernham djinn WAS used A LOT, and he dropped to ridiculously low values, as well. (though I did also enjoy being able to bash face with HIM, as well; he eventually found his way into a type 1 deck I mis-piloted all the way through Exodus.
topic shift:
I liked Aaron Forsythe describing that they're not increasing 'goyf's numbers by more than a fraction... 99/100ths is a fraction.
Unless my math is wrong, since mythics are twice as rare as rares, this basically means Modern Masters can have very close to double the print run of Future Sight, without making AF into a liar.
(actually, 3000/1 is a fraction, too; so they could blow all previous print numbers out of the water and still be *technically* correct [the best kind of correct])
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
The more I think about Modern Masters, I can't help but feel that Wizards gave into peer pressure. Everyone kept asking for them to reprint Goyf, and they couldn't stand by forever.
One of the hardest things a TCG developer can do is manage a reprint policy. Some cards have to get reprinted for the sake of making the game accessible, while at the same time, you don't want to have the value of cards plummet. Magic is in a really awkward position because they can always say "don't play that deck/colour(s)", but it's not what they want to be doing. The fact of the matter is that competitive decks cost more than most people are willing to pay to build them, so people build only one and it kinda dampens the enjoyment.
With that said, I expect a LOT of reprints in this set of money cards. I would be genuinely surprised if the expected value of a pack was less than the MSRP. I still expect some junk rares and mythics, or rather, mythics that should be rares and rares that suck, but factoring in that you'll be able to get all the commons for decks from packs (rituals, cantrips, eggs, etc), the expected value of the commons is probably the MSRP, given playable commons aren't generally less than a buck.
aaron spoke about bat token.We can assume either skeletal vampire or belfry spirit in the set.i think thespirit could be nice.
The spirit seems like a very good limited card, and the set is going to need a lot of limited filler at common/uncommon, so I assume that's what makes the token.
I would love if MM were white boarded. That would be great! I will send a mail to Wizards about it, if enough people do so they might print it white boarded.
Pros:
- Unique look.
- Honors the legacy of white borders, core sets used to be reprints only with white borders
- The original version and the MM version will not look alike, original version will hold value better.
- The foils are still black bordered, creating even more hype for "foil in every pack".
Cons:
- Demand for MM might decrease (not like it wont sell out anyway)
- Brings back memories of old core sets, who were disliked by many
I completely agree with you, white borders would make it seem even more like a reprint set and would effect the price of the older versions a lot less because there are a lot of people always willing to pay more for black border. There are a lot of pros to going white bordered, but I don't think it's likely to happen. Also my opinion's pretty biased, because I would love to have white border goyfs, cryptics and bobs
This is one of the best comments on this whole Modern Masters discussion growing all over the internet. I think this is a very plausible and realistic view of what can (and probably will) happen.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
That's what i tried to point in various places where Modern Masters was being discussed. Even being a limited "small" print, it will not be something like FTV.
There will be surely enough to make some impact on the prices of the most expensive cards.
Nothing apocalyptic like Goyf or Bob falling to 10$, but at last a good reduction. Goyf will still be the more expensive card in modern, but not that high as he is now.
are you trolling me? re-read your paragraph and the article on the introduction of mythics.
also do some highschool math on chances of opening a given rare in draft.
This is a comment that's regularly made on these forums and always takes - to an extreme extent - MaRo's initial comments on the Mythic rarity out of context.
The original paragraph had "not" italicized for emphasis, but the more important word in that last sentence has been bolded importance: "just."
This means that, no, not every mythic rare in a given set will be a tournament/constructed quality card. But some will. Sometimes many will. To accuse WotC of "breaking promises" - as many on these forums have - for misinterpreting this quote is not constructive.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
I have a playset of Strip Mine and Gate To Phyrexia from Antiquities. For me they are like buried treasure. I put Gate To Phyrexia into play in front of experienced players who had to turn the card around to read them. With mechanics like undying sure to be revisited in the future, and powerful token generator mechanics like populate, Gate To Phyrexia is certainly one of the most under appreciated Reserved List cards that there is.
Some other cards to watch out for are In The Eye Of Chaos, Arboria, Land Equilibrium, Mana Vortex, City Of Shadows (this was looking good with proliferate but came to nought, maybe some day it will get more broken), there are lots of cards like this which are in the vicinity of bent, like Drop Of Honey in some builds of Lands.dec or Enchantress.
but this is a warning to all you Legacy players out there. What you think your cards are worth is mostly driven by speculation. Consider the low value of Lake Of The Dead compared to Force Of Will, or cards like Elvish Spirit Guide . Elvish Spirit Guide might not be so snappy as FOW, it is usually found for maybe $2 or $3.
This is the future of Legacy staples particularly 3rd Edition dual lands which has a comparable print run to 4th Edition.
You should consider the state of people's collection binders as a whole.
Face it. Many of the cards are way over valued.
if people won't be needing to invest $1000 into decks anymore, than that speculation will go away.
Why the hell should I be able to scoop up Serendib Efreet from Arabian Nights for $30? Do people truly know what they are buying and speculating on?
At least if I own playsets and binders of Arabian Nights, as opposed to Revised, I am not a fool, no matter how little speculation people might put into Arabian Nights as a set, I am not the idiot.
In the future,
Modern will cause a radical re-evalution of Legacy and Vintage staples.
I will appreciate dumping Modern cards for Legacy cards, but don't think that WOTC will print spells in quantities that will make that Modern Masters set unattractive. It will be a highly collectible set and I hope will re-evaluate the truth worth of their collections taken in whole, considering their actual true scarcity - not their speculative value - and Modern will help to rebalance the cost of entry for Legacy.
Modern will become an example for the Legacy price of entry to follow.
I'll close by saying something I would like to be given some credit for that I was right all along,
Modern will demonstrate what a collectible is.
Modern will make Magic cards more valuable.
Modern will develop a sense for aesthetic, nostalgia, and appreciation
that the game has sorely lacked.
My Strip Mine playset, sometimes it cries like the Virgin Mary man
Tears appear on that card to me sometimes
and it asks me
Why
Why Why Why am I not appreciated
Why.
They already reprinted drop of honey
Porphyry Nodes
Fetchlands will not be reprinted, as they're from Zendikar. The MM run is from 8th through to Alara Reborn.
Shocklands are being reprinted in RtR and GtC, so not sure if you mean those dual lands or others.
:symr:RG Karn Tron:symg:
:symu:UR Storm:symr:
you should buy them soon before people start testing for the PTQ season in december
or you can wait till RTR block rotates and they might reprint fetches in a future block
So, Misty Rainforest and Marsh Flats are both called fetchlands, due to the fact that they fetch a land card from your deck. These will not be reprinted within Modern Masters, but could see reprints after RtR rotates or within the next set (who really knows). If you want them within a month, I'd say go for it.
Steam Vents and Sacred Foundry are both shocklands. Sacred foundry you should wait for the next set, Gatecrash, to release as it's being reprinted within that set. Steam Vents was just reprinted in Return to Ravnica.
:symr:RG Karn Tron:symg:
:symu:UR Storm:symr:
Limited sets don't require fodder (Hill Giant, etc)
Take a look at the MTG: Cube. That set is meant to be drafted at a highly competitive level and there is ZERO fodder in the cube. And it was said that this will be on the same level as it. So i feel like it's not too much of a leap of faith to expect every card to be playable at least the FNM level.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218
I think every card in this set will be playable.
I would die laughing
While I eventually grew to like being able to grab mishra's factories for cheep...
17-year-old me wasn't amused when the set of elder dragon legends i'd paid $65 for (borrowed from my parents because "it's an investment!") was suddenly worth $5.
Of course, it didn't help things that the dragons were nigh-worthless in play value. But, ernham djinn WAS used A LOT, and he dropped to ridiculously low values, as well. (though I did also enjoy being able to bash face with HIM, as well; he eventually found his way into a type 1 deck I mis-piloted all the way through Exodus.
topic shift:
I liked Aaron Forsythe describing that they're not increasing 'goyf's numbers by more than a fraction... 99/100ths is a fraction.
Unless my math is wrong, since mythics are twice as rare as rares, this basically means Modern Masters can have very close to double the print run of Future Sight, without making AF into a liar.
(actually, 3000/1 is a fraction, too; so they could blow all previous print numbers out of the water and still be *technically* correct [the best kind of correct])
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
takes me back to 1995
honestly.
IMO:
Dauthi Slayer
Funeral Charm
Tribal Flames
Unstable Mutation
Assault // Battery
Disintegrate
Harmonize
Icatian Javelineers
Sengir Autocrat
Avalanche Riders
Bitter Ordeal
Damnation
Gemstone Mine
Whirling Dervish
Pendelhaven
Vhati il-Dal
Just some thoughts
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
One of the hardest things a TCG developer can do is manage a reprint policy. Some cards have to get reprinted for the sake of making the game accessible, while at the same time, you don't want to have the value of cards plummet. Magic is in a really awkward position because they can always say "don't play that deck/colour(s)", but it's not what they want to be doing. The fact of the matter is that competitive decks cost more than most people are willing to pay to build them, so people build only one and it kinda dampens the enjoyment.
With that said, I expect a LOT of reprints in this set of money cards. I would be genuinely surprised if the expected value of a pack was less than the MSRP. I still expect some junk rares and mythics, or rather, mythics that should be rares and rares that suck, but factoring in that you'll be able to get all the commons for decks from packs (rituals, cantrips, eggs, etc), the expected value of the commons is probably the MSRP, given playable commons aren't generally less than a buck.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
The spirit seems like a very good limited card, and the set is going to need a lot of limited filler at common/uncommon, so I assume that's what makes the token.
I completely agree with you, white borders would make it seem even more like a reprint set and would effect the price of the older versions a lot less because there are a lot of people always willing to pay more for black border. There are a lot of pros to going white bordered, but I don't think it's likely to happen. Also my opinion's pretty biased, because I would love to have white border goyfs, cryptics and bobs