as is tradition with the Modern forum, i have taken it upon myself to post the official thread for discussing the next Magic expansion in this format.
remember:
If a card isn't on the official MTGS Spoiler page but is thought to be in the set, it's considered a rumor and must stay in the Rumor Mill.
This thread is for general discussion. So if you want to discuss a card in a specific archetype, please refer to the official thread for that archetype. Otherwise, if you don't know where a card would go, if it would possibly go in multiple archetypes (meaning a general staple, such as Kitchen Finks), or the archetype that it would be for doesn't exist yet, feel free to talk about it here.
None of the spoiled cards are close to playable, as of the time of this writing. I mean, you could try a blue tron deck with Omniscience and Enter the Infinite, but thats about it. Also, hooray for more shocks. Lets lower those entry barriers a bit more wizards, reprint the fetches in DGM
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"I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about."
-H. P. Lovecraft
Huh, the Gruul walker seems cool, maybe in Zoo or something like that? His +1 seems like the best thing about him, though having a reusable removal effect seems nice, especially with maybe some creatures with Deathtouch.
Huh, the Gruul walker seems cool, maybe in Zoo or something like that? His +1 seems like the best thing about him, though having a reusable removal effect seems nice, especially with maybe some creatures with Deathtouch.
Yeah, I have to admit that his +1 is really good in Zoo, at least. He, BBE and sometimes Ranger of Eos are really the only sources of card advantage I can think of in that deck. He's definitely got potential to be the biggest source, but maybe not the best. If you think of him as an aggressive version of Phyrexian Arena (1/3-1/2 the time, anyway) with a finisher, he's not so bad.
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[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
OMG I love Enter the Infinite....WHY CAN'T U CONTROL EXIST?! IDGAF though, I'm totally gonna build a deck with it + Omniscience and probably emrakul or something.
EDIT:
OH, and how smexy is that art?
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
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[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
The new walker feels strong to me. Bloodbraid Elf into this guy into another creature and/or removal is pretty huge card advantage. Obviously, he shouldn't just be jammed into any deck... but the possibilities are intriguing.
The new walker feels strong to me. Bloodbraid Elf into this guy into another creature and/or removal is pretty huge card advantage. Obviously, he shouldn't just be jammed into any deck... but the possibilities are intriguing.
his+1 puts it into your hand o.O I'd hate to BBE into this guy
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[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Yeah, but you still get a 4 drop into a 3 drop planeswalker that has some removal potential into a potential card draw. For 4 mana you get 3 cards... even blue is jealous right now.
Id rather cascade into Lingering Souls or Maelstrom Pulse. Immediately affects the board and essentially a 3+ for 1.
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[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Yeah, but you still get a 4 drop into a 3 drop planeswalker that has some removal potential into a potential card draw. For 4 mana you get 3 cards... even blue is jealous right now.
Potential repeatable card draw, and/or repeatable removal, and/or an unlikely "Oops, I accidentally the field."
When I saw the guy I was just thinking "This dude's awesome, definitely lets me play Naya Zoo in standard and he may be Modern playable in Zoo builds... Bloodbraid Elf into Domri... Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, definitely a good play."
I use the Duels Of The Planeswalkers layout, though I'm right-handed and keep my deck and GY to the left. I dare you to ask me how tempting it is to hold flying creatures in a floating pattern over the table.
The RG planeswalker is the only one that might be playable. Its +1 reminds me of Lead the Stampede, a card that only Elves uses.
RUG Delver? The +1 is good when you have Delver and Serum Visions to check what's on top, but the deck plays too many small-butt creatures like Insectile Aberration and Vendilion Clique for the second ability to be useful.
Jund? I still don't see a use for the second ability.
Zoo? If you played more midrange creatures like Angel or Smiter it has potential.
Living End? Seems exciting! It's 3 mana, so it doesn't interfere with cascade. The deck plays a lot of creatures (which are actually cantrips), so you'll be drawing tons of cards every turn. Furthermore, those creatures are pretty big, so there's a use for the second ability.
I agree with the new walker. Seems more midrange than aggro. Plus, if the Zoo Keeper says he won't be too good in Zoo, then it must be so ^^
Be aware, I just changed my title thingy over there in honor of that new title. I dig!
Hes been itchin in the back of my mind all day so far, because he is a nice tool zoo got, but not the best. But as far as I can tell, zoo and jund are the only ones who can abuse him. Lets assume 3 different senerios (again, just zoo ones, though it might give an insight to jund as well.)
Small zoo:
+1: overload the board or wipe insurance. either or, very good. I'd say its more useful than ajani here, because worst case, it happens late game and you get a creature out of it still. Id say, 8.5 outta 10
-2: Fighting creatures. Alright here as well, but less then ^^^. Tarmo is the biggest they got, but then again, most of small zoo is 3 toughness, and in a world of 2/1s we might be looking at a winner. repeatable removal for clearing the way is nice, but this is no way lil's -2. Id have to go with 7 outta 10 here.
-7: Takes 4 activation, so rarely ganna happen. More rarely is zoo holding back to protect it, so its really never going to happen. However, if they are on defence because your being aggressive, maybe. Still it will win you the game with least 2 critters out.
Loyalty: 3+1=4/3-2=1. He doesnt commit sucide, which is nice, and he passes bolt test. Worse case you use him as burn, he lives to get you another creature. In small zoo he probably doesnt live more then a turn or so.
Bigger/Midrange zoo:
+1: actually, less good then small zoo. Big zoo doesnt do threats spread out like little, it perfers threat value. Sure it means your drawing a big game ender like baneslayer (Maybe) but big zoo is still casting one kinks/knight/smiter/slayer at a time. Its also not running out of threats, as it doesnt burn out as fast as little zoo. 5-6 outta seven
-2: here ya go. Couple pointers for you, baneslayer still gains you 5 (and flys over for another 5.) and so long as you attack, and do this MP2, you still get to work with exalted. I guess it also helps that most of your dudes are either huge (3+) or dont die (finks), or have combat tricks (knight+stepe). Approval. 9 outta 10.
-7: still gets the job done like before, 'cept you have a chance to protect him.
Meta Zoo:
One of zoos strengths is its loosely naya, meaning it has a crap ton of tools at its fingertips. But it also has a few things not in its favor. One is Meta zoo usually has Thalia in it, which doesnt mesh well with this guy. I wont go over his finer points, because these lists change depending on the meta. It could use him, but mostly as a tool against removal high decks like control or tempo. It can't do it against jund due to decays and pulses.
Overall:
Small zoo using the big asses of Ape and Lion have the best shot at him. Even tarmo and smiter (our current go to instead of Knight because of shaman) likes him... mostly because he kills annoying shaman. Big zoo would rather ajani 3.0 or elspeth, unless they need repeatable removal. He rocks againt control and tempo... 2 decks that dont really exist right now. Id be worried because Tarmo is alot worse with shaman running around, so is knight (but smiter is an fine replacement and will do the same trick.) He doesnt do much to jund, which is target numero uno to zoo.
Jund get pushed down a bit more? Hes worth a serious look at in small zoo. Jund still around? testing, but not a zoo revival.
Jund says about this guy? I think it says "Hes not lili" who does what they like more, piling on discard, and getting around hexproof. His +1 screams "over extend, I got your back" and his -2 screams "I dont really care if i die, go for the gold man, punch him in the face" all things zoo wants, but not jund. Jund would rather take its time and win in a grind out, lili likes that.
OMG I love Enter the Infinite....WHY CAN'T U CONTROL EXIST?! IDGAF though, I'm totally gonna build a deck with it + Omniscience and probably emrakul or something.
EDIT:
OH, and how smexy is that art?
That thing has Dream Halls written all over it in Legacy. I see no practical applications in Modern.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Assume the only builds that want him are Deathrite Shaman builds since they can actually run 20 creatures (assume manlands don't count because Domri Rade can't draw them).
Every time I build Deathrite Jund, I always find myself fitting in too few Maelstrom Pulses or Terminate effects--I always end up with a 1-1 split or a 2-1 split depending on the rest of the build.
If I could play a 65-card Deathrite Jund, I'd fit in the 2nd Pulse, the 2nd Terminate, the 3rd Abrupt Decay, another Liliana of the Veil, and a Garruk Relentless (or maybe the fifth manland) before this guy. Garruk Relentless hasn't disappointed me in Modern yet (in Jund or RUG Delver; the creature production and removal, and eventual creature search are fairly good), and the other cards are nice and steady.
From my testing with Domri Rade in 24-creature Modern Zoo, his +1 is neat but unreliable (this deck theoretically flips creatures 40% of the time, but I play 10-12 fetchlands and tend to mull 5+-land lands, so I don't know his actual gameplay percentages)--he does tend to produce card advantage with his +1 more often than Liliana of the Veil (wants either discard recursion or Hellbent, and Jund's Hellbent fairly often), but the number of times I've already foreseen Path to Exile or Bolt is disturbing. His -2 is fine but may result in blowouts (I target my Loam Lion and opposing Bob; Jund Abrupt Decays the Lion in response) and obviously can't be used when I have no creatures to attempt to stabilize. He sometimes swings games, but RUG Delver already treats him as giant counterspell bait (they Bolt all the small creatures and eventually Vedalken Shackles some of the big ones), and I'm often stuck throwing 2/3's at 3/1's or 3/2's with his -2.
IMO, Domri is only worth playing if you can seriously expect at least 2 cards out of him (with some combination of his +1 and -2).
This is after testing Domri in Modern. He's not quite shabby, but I'm not sure Ranger of Eos isn't just better for Zoo, and I'm definitely seeing Bloodbraid Elf over him.
On the other hand, he is 3 cmc, while the others are 4 cmc...
The RG planeswalker is the only one that might be playable. Its +1 reminds me of Lead the Stampede, a card that only Elves uses.
That's what I was coming here to say! I love playing Lead the Stampede, but I can't ever see myself wanting to play this walker and waiting to draw creatures instead of just playing Lead the Stampede and having some fresh cards to play the following turn.
remember:
If a card isn't on the official MTGS Spoiler page but is thought to be in the set, it's considered a rumor and must stay in the Rumor Mill.
This thread is for general discussion. So if you want to discuss a card in a specific archetype, please refer to the official thread for that archetype. Otherwise, if you don't know where a card would go, if it would possibly go in multiple archetypes (meaning a general staple, such as Kitchen Finks), or the archetype that it would be for doesn't exist yet, feel free to talk about it here.
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEADYYYYYY..
.. GO!!!
"I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about."
-H. P. Lovecraft
CG
Yeah, I have to admit that his +1 is really good in Zoo, at least. He, BBE and sometimes Ranger of Eos are really the only sources of card advantage I can think of in that deck. He's definitely got potential to be the biggest source, but maybe not the best. If you think of him as an aggressive version of Phyrexian Arena (1/3-1/2 the time, anyway) with a finisher, he's not so bad.
CG
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
EDIT:
OH, and how smexy is that art?
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Would rather it go to zoo... Aggro shouldnt be blue...
Personal bias.
New walker doesnt scream zoo to me, least not yet. Fighting is nice, but drawing extra creatures lacks to me. Right now Id still rather rock Ajani 3.0
I agree with the new walker. Seems more midrange than aggro. Plus, if the Zoo Keeper says he won't be too good in Zoo, then it must be so ^^
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Cubetutor Link
his+1 puts it into your hand o.O I'd hate to BBE into this guy
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Id rather cascade into Lingering Souls or Maelstrom Pulse. Immediately affects the board and essentially a 3+ for 1.
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Potential repeatable card draw, and/or repeatable removal, and/or an unlikely "Oops, I accidentally the field."
When I saw the guy I was just thinking "This dude's awesome, definitely lets me play Naya Zoo in standard and he may be Modern playable in Zoo builds... Bloodbraid Elf into Domri... Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, definitely a good play."
RUG Delver? The +1 is good when you have Delver and Serum Visions to check what's on top, but the deck plays too many small-butt creatures like Insectile Aberration and Vendilion Clique for the second ability to be useful.
Jund? I still don't see a use for the second ability.
Zoo? If you played more midrange creatures like Angel or Smiter it has potential.
Living End? Seems exciting! It's 3 mana, so it doesn't interfere with cascade. The deck plays a lot of creatures (which are actually cantrips), so you'll be drawing tons of cards every turn. Furthermore, those creatures are pretty big, so there's a use for the second ability.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Be aware, I just changed my title thingy over there in honor of that new title. I dig!
Hes been itchin in the back of my mind all day so far, because he is a nice tool zoo got, but not the best. But as far as I can tell, zoo and jund are the only ones who can abuse him. Lets assume 3 different senerios (again, just zoo ones, though it might give an insight to jund as well.)
Small zoo:
+1: overload the board or wipe insurance. either or, very good. I'd say its more useful than ajani here, because worst case, it happens late game and you get a creature out of it still. Id say, 8.5 outta 10
-2: Fighting creatures. Alright here as well, but less then ^^^. Tarmo is the biggest they got, but then again, most of small zoo is 3 toughness, and in a world of 2/1s we might be looking at a winner. repeatable removal for clearing the way is nice, but this is no way lil's -2. Id have to go with 7 outta 10 here.
-7: Takes 4 activation, so rarely ganna happen. More rarely is zoo holding back to protect it, so its really never going to happen. However, if they are on defence because your being aggressive, maybe. Still it will win you the game with least 2 critters out.
Loyalty: 3+1=4/3-2=1. He doesnt commit sucide, which is nice, and he passes bolt test. Worse case you use him as burn, he lives to get you another creature. In small zoo he probably doesnt live more then a turn or so.
Bigger/Midrange zoo:
+1: actually, less good then small zoo. Big zoo doesnt do threats spread out like little, it perfers threat value. Sure it means your drawing a big game ender like baneslayer (Maybe) but big zoo is still casting one kinks/knight/smiter/slayer at a time. Its also not running out of threats, as it doesnt burn out as fast as little zoo. 5-6 outta seven
-2: here ya go. Couple pointers for you, baneslayer still gains you 5 (and flys over for another 5.) and so long as you attack, and do this MP2, you still get to work with exalted. I guess it also helps that most of your dudes are either huge (3+) or dont die (finks), or have combat tricks (knight+stepe). Approval. 9 outta 10.
-7: still gets the job done like before, 'cept you have a chance to protect him.
Meta Zoo:
One of zoos strengths is its loosely naya, meaning it has a crap ton of tools at its fingertips. But it also has a few things not in its favor. One is Meta zoo usually has Thalia in it, which doesnt mesh well with this guy. I wont go over his finer points, because these lists change depending on the meta. It could use him, but mostly as a tool against removal high decks like control or tempo. It can't do it against jund due to decays and pulses.
Overall:
Small zoo using the big asses of Ape and Lion have the best shot at him. Even tarmo and smiter (our current go to instead of Knight because of shaman) likes him... mostly because he kills annoying shaman. Big zoo would rather ajani 3.0 or elspeth, unless they need repeatable removal. He rocks againt control and tempo... 2 decks that dont really exist right now. Id be worried because Tarmo is alot worse with shaman running around, so is knight (but smiter is an fine replacement and will do the same trick.) He doesnt do much to jund, which is target numero uno to zoo.
Jund get pushed down a bit more? Hes worth a serious look at in small zoo. Jund still around? testing, but not a zoo revival.
Jund says about this guy? I think it says "Hes not lili" who does what they like more, piling on discard, and getting around hexproof. His +1 screams "over extend, I got your back" and his -2 screams "I dont really care if i die, go for the gold man, punch him in the face" all things zoo wants, but not jund. Jund would rather take its time and win in a grind out, lili likes that.
That thing has Dream Halls written all over it in Legacy. I see no practical applications in Modern.
Sins of the Past?
Ok, that's a bit of a stretch.
Show and tell, 4 LED's, Past in flames, go to town? Sounds more resilient than Omniscience, Emrakul or Dream Halls. Only Venser can counter it.
This is after testing Domri in Modern. He's not quite shabby, but I'm not sure Ranger of Eos isn't just better for Zoo, and I'm definitely seeing Bloodbraid Elf over him.
On the other hand, he is 3 cmc, while the others are 4 cmc...
+1: Look at the top card of your library. If it's a creature card, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
Use his ablity... find a tarmo. Chose not to cast it, cast BBelf. Use his ability, find out its not a bolt like you needed, hold on to Bbelf, ect.
I dunno. Not as good as I thought... but still, may is nice.
That's what I was coming here to say! I love playing Lead the Stampede, but I can't ever see myself wanting to play this walker and waiting to draw creatures instead of just playing Lead the Stampede and having some fresh cards to play the following turn.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
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U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
What about it being a "may" ability makes it worse?