IF there is a mono black or Hybrid mono black permanent with Extort on it that is useful to control... i would definitely run it in my Grixis Control. IF black white as a whole gets some love on individual card value I could even see going esper. There are many times when i'm playing Grixis that I pass the turn holding a Lightning bolt, Terminate and or Izzet Charm... when i have 3-5 mana open. My games tend to run on long and over the course of a long game 1 damage here, 1 damage there can really add up. As it stands i usually have to resolve Cruel Ultimatum 2-3 times to close out a game i'm winning This could potentially reduce that amount to as low as 2 times which can make or break a game... not to mention ensuring you live long enough to get TOO cruel ultimatum. But as it stands on that creature i think its rather unplayable in modern.
FoD stopped being used...well it was never actually prevalent in modern. Flame Jav was dropped in favor of Blood Hand as it's easier on mana and provides added utility. Dragon's Claw is a common sideboard option, because every deck will take free life when they can get it. 12 of the 20 lands can be used to provide black mana(while all 20 still provide red), and this is a very black light build, can easily be modified to add more with no loss of red.
So I'll repeat, people who don't actually know how RDW works in modern probably shouldn't try to correct those who do. If you want to understand modern RDW better, there's a rather large subforum for it. And I'd suggest going there so you aren't trying to argue outdated legacy strats from 3 years ago.
I don't think you're talking about me but just in case I'll say I've tested Burn quite extensively, with black splash included.
I beleive that exort is pretty alright. Its better in multiplayer. We might see something that says for every damage taken, something gets better. In which case its still better in multiplayer. Remember, this block was made with modern AND edh in mind.
Battalion still seems alright to me. A thalia/knight of the reliquary card with the ablity (grant it a good version) can turn out to be goddly in an aggro deck. Delver gets sad since it wants to be an aggro deck, but rarely has 3 creatures turn 3...
a 3 cmc Battalion with haste would be the best. As you can go one drop, creature. 2 drop, creature. hasty go!
Mark my words: Whispering Madness will spawn an entirely new archetype of storm, and may eventually be banned. It looks just that good.
I highly doubt Whispering Madness will have in Modern anywhere near the power it will have in Legacy. Slithermuse sees no play in Modern, and it draws a similar number of cards. Storm generally combos off too late in Modern to capitalize on full (enough) hands.
Not to mention splashing black is ugly. I've seen very few Storm decks splash black in Modern for other reasons (e.g. Bob, targeted discard).
I highly doubt Whispering Madness will have in Modern anywhere near the power it will have in Legacy. Slithermuse sees no play in Modern, and it draws a similar number of cards. Storm generally combos off too late in Modern to capitalize on full (enough) hands.
Not to mention splashing black is ugly. I've seen very few Storm decks splash black in Modern for other reasons (e.g. Bob, targeted discard).
Perhaps I did jump the gun a bit, but I still wouldn't rule out decks popping up with it. Windfall is still Windfall, and this is a format with Past in Flames. The biggest issue with it seeing play in Modern would probably be the preponderance of aggro decks that love to dump their hand on turns 1 and 2, and the lack of free early mana.
Like others in the Rumor Mill, I see Cipher as being very dangerous depending on the cards it goes on. They've already brought up "Curiosity" for sorcery-speed 1U or instant-speed 2U--if it draws as many cards as Oona's Grace over the course of a game, it's already showing promise.
IMO, a 1BB (or even 1UB) Mind Rot with Cipher would be pretty dangerous against combo decks. Cast it on Turn 3-4 during the first main phase, then swing with Bob or Goyf or someone stupid. If Exarch Twin starts throwing an Exarch in the way or if UR Storm decides to lose Goblin Electromancer, that's already significant value. Otherwise, they lose 4 cards that turn. And yeah, losing 2 cards a turn afterwards if you can't find the Izzet Charm/Flame Slash/etc. would be dumb.
I think Whispering Madness will turn out like Past in Flames: adding one mana to a brokencard goes a long way toward making it not-broken, even if you give it an upside as well.
The set of decks that can abuse cipher well and the set of decks that can abuse Windfall well have a pretty small intersection (though I guess something like Dredgevine does fall in there).
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Whispering Madness I feel is going to be very overhyped, not saying it is a bad card, but it warrants testing to see how good it truly is
I think you're right. We get a bit too excited at this early stage in the spoiler season. The Cipher mechanic is potentially really great, but this card doesn't seem to represent (even close to) the best way to abuse it. We are at the mercy of the design team to see if they printed it on anything worthy.
I'm not sure where Whispering madness would see play. Past in flames works easily in storm since it sits in the same colors as the red rituals in the format. Whispering madness on the other hand does not.
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I think Whispering Madness will turn out like Past in Flames: adding one mana to a brokencard goes a long way toward making it not-broken, even if you give it an upside as well.
I wish more people understood this. But it's easier to panic and make absurd claims about how things will warp the game.
I don't like it. Cipher seems like a crappy attempt to make control players play more creatures. The mechanic might be ok, but this card is trash in modern as far as I can tell. A 4 mana sorcery is just way too much when decks can win on turn 3.
For cipher to be good the card it's on needs to be good-great on its own and the cipher needs to be an added bonus.
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I think Whispering Madness will turn out like Past in Flames: adding one mana to a brokencard goes a long way toward making it not-broken, even if you give it an upside as well.
The set of decks that can abuse cipher well and the set of decks that can abuse Windfall well have a pretty small intersection (though I guess something like Dredgevine does fall in there).
I don't think it's broken either. They fixed Mind Twist the same way too, and having it be gold is an even bigger hindrance.
That said, I will definitely be trying this out in storm.
Yeah the fact that it's UB kinda sucks for Modern since our storm decks don't run black.
I don't think adding a small splash just for this will be too taxing on the manabase, and you can always cast off of a Manamorphose if you can't get B from a land.
In any case, it needs testing before we can make any conclusions.
I don't think you're talking about me but just in case I'll say I've tested Burn quite extensively, with black splash included.
Battalion still seems alright to me. A thalia/knight of the reliquary card with the ablity (grant it a good version) can turn out to be goddly in an aggro deck. Delver gets sad since it wants to be an aggro deck, but rarely has 3 creatures turn 3...
a 3 cmc Battalion with haste would be the best. As you can go one drop, creature. 2 drop, creature. hasty go!
That oughta be pretty damn good.
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I doubt it'll help Storm because Storm only plays 4 creatures, and this card needs black mana.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I highly doubt Whispering Madness will have in Modern anywhere near the power it will have in Legacy. Slithermuse sees no play in Modern, and it draws a similar number of cards. Storm generally combos off too late in Modern to capitalize on full (enough) hands.
Not to mention splashing black is ugly. I've seen very few Storm decks splash black in Modern for other reasons (e.g. Bob, targeted discard).
Perhaps I did jump the gun a bit, but I still wouldn't rule out decks popping up with it. Windfall is still Windfall, and this is a format with Past in Flames. The biggest issue with it seeing play in Modern would probably be the preponderance of aggro decks that love to dump their hand on turns 1 and 2, and the lack of free early mana.
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Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
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Hermit Druid Combo:
IMO, a 1BB (or even 1UB) Mind Rot with Cipher would be pretty dangerous against combo decks. Cast it on Turn 3-4 during the first main phase, then swing with Bob or Goyf or someone stupid. If Exarch Twin starts throwing an Exarch in the way or if UR Storm decides to lose Goblin Electromancer, that's already significant value. Otherwise, they lose 4 cards that turn. And yeah, losing 2 cards a turn afterwards if you can't find the Izzet Charm/Flame Slash/etc. would be dumb.
Don't you already have? Hedron Crab.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Skaab ruinator?
No
Also no
Whispering Madness I feel is going to be very overhyped, not saying it is a bad card, but it warrants testing to see how good it truly is
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
The set of decks that can abuse cipher well and the set of decks that can abuse Windfall well have a pretty small intersection (though I guess something like Dredgevine does fall in there).
I think you're right. We get a bit too excited at this early stage in the spoiler season. The Cipher mechanic is potentially really great, but this card doesn't seem to represent (even close to) the best way to abuse it. We are at the mercy of the design team to see if they printed it on anything worthy.
CG
I wish more people understood this. But it's easier to panic and make absurd claims about how things will warp the game.
For cipher to be good the card it's on needs to be good-great on its own and the cipher needs to be an added bonus.
Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson's letter to John Adams, April 11 1823
I don't think it's broken either. They fixed Mind Twist the same way too, and having it be gold is an even bigger hindrance.
That said, I will definitely be trying this out in storm.
I don't think adding a small splash just for this will be too taxing on the manabase, and you can always cast off of a Manamorphose if you can't get B from a land.
In any case, it needs testing before we can make any conclusions.