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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I've got a few helpful suggestions for you, actually :). Made a deck like this myself and worked on it for months of testing among friends who play modern.
Here's the thing though. You have to be very careful to make sure the deck still has a strong game plan when you don't draw liquimetal coating.
The result is that you end up with less artifact removal in your 60 cards, so in a way, your primary sort of 'combo' is diluted. However, you end up with a stronger, more robust deck with flexible gameplans which can respond effectively to multiple deck styles and angles of play. That's the important thing, versatility.
That would be a very strong base to work from. The rest of the deck should be efficient threats, probably in green/white or mono white. Hero of bladehold Seems solid. Geist of saint traft also seems strong and snapcaster mage is a winner as well.
The important thing to remember is that if you don't have liquimetal, the other cards become next to useless, and you pretty much lose on the spot. That's why limiting the "pure" artifact removal to as few copies as possible is a good move. Cards like bant charm are your saving grace though, as they can get creatures as well (even indestructible ones!) and hold you out in a tight spot. The eelvish dude isn't the most aggressive, but it's at least a chump blocker if you haven't got the main card yet.
In summary, my advise is to have a 'removal suite' based around liquimetal rather than the entire deck. You'll thank me when you win. Populate the rest of the deck with very efficient and aggressive midrange powerhouse cards. Don't go above mana cost 4 for your threats and put in a small amount (maybe 3 or 4) of perhaps mana leak as a failsafe to protect your early game.
Build it like a midrange deck, basically
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Ya ive tried r/g but just casual and it was very incosistant. I went blue for a cheap tutor type effect where the card isnt a worthless draw if i already have liquimetal out. But looking at some of the cards red would bring to the table....im tempted to go RUG...with isochron scepter for sure lol
I find between stirrings and thirsts, I can usually get a liquimetal out. Thirst is nice if you have an extra coating in hand, since having 2 isn't that useful. It wins most of it games by killing their lands and finishing them with man lands or manic vandals. I never considered using muddle to tutor for liquimetal. The double blue could be tough to pull off. I like using fabricate as it often gives me the chance to search for batterskull if i'm in a position where i can cast it or need it to stabilize. I've tested it against a decent amount of decks and it's been pretty good. The only problem with it is that nobody likes playing against land destruction...
A few other possibilities I noticed that work with isochron....simic charm, boomerang, and i cant decide if I like mana leak or rune snag more.....seems like rune snag could be better late game but it'd lose it's effectiveness faster without seeing 2+ copies....opinions?
Also a few other cards I was eyeballing... tanglewalker, mimic vat, oxidize
So here's how things stand currently. Still looking for advice and feedback especially on replacing acidic slime and whether i should include mimic vat for the purpose of copying my own art. hate creatures
Go back and check my post. You seem to have either missed it or ignored it. I'd drop muddle the mixture completely and avoid isochron sceptre/mimic vat as they don't do anything by themselves.
You want cards which would give you some benefit if you topdecked them in the mid game after you'd exhausted your hand.
Unless you've got a bunch of card draw, mana leak is better than rune snag. You want your counters to be more effective in the early game while you set up your liquimetal removal machine.
Also remember that liquimetal isn't a complete lock strategy. You are just using it for value to disrupt your opponent's strategy. Don't worry about infinitely repeating effects. A handful of strategic removal spells will set you up to win.
As it stands, acidic slime is too expensive to work here. You want beefy "deal with this or die" creatures to go alongside your powerful removal strategy. That way, even if liquimetal never comes online you can still beat them out effectively. At the moment your deck does absolutely nothing if you don't assemble your pieces, and even then it only wins slowly.
Here you've got a potent removal suite, a decent counter suite, all backed up by a couple of snapcasters. You've also got the range to beat down on your opponent if you need to, and block nasty early plays your opponents have.
It's not going to set any tournaments alight, but it's a whole lot better than the other lists so far.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Ok purkle im really not sure what your deck is supposed to do....it just looks like random bant with very few artifact hate cards..... and why would i give my opponent 4 life to destroy something? You are right this is a combo deck not aggro....who cares if it takes awhile to kill my opponent. Good call/reasoning for mana leak though. And worst call ever for telling me to drop [/card]muddle the mixture[/card]....It easily fetches liquimetal or protects it if ones already in play......it can also find isochron.
1) your "combo" doesn't win the game, it just destroys things. In light of this, you need ways to close out the game, and do it quickly. Otherwise you run the risk of giving your opponent too much time to deal with your plan. That's one point in favour of having a cheap aggressive, hard to remove beater as your wincon. It's also your backup (two points)
2) let's examine what the liquimetal coating "combo" does; it is effectively a slightly different kind of removal suite that can hit lands as well as creatures. Other decks that employ this kind of heavy-removal strategy are jund and midrange strategies which have the ability to capitalize on your opponent's tempo loss in a powerful way. Basically, what are you doing once you've got rid of a few things your opponents control? If it's durdling for six turns or swinging for ten turns with a 2/2( which isn't resistant to removal, I might add!) I think you seriously need to rebuild your concept from the ground up. You need threats (three points).
3) nature's claim is one of the most effective removal spells at your disposal. One mana, instant speed. Boom. If you are able to remove your opponent's best permanent for one mana and seriously disrupt their game plan, 4 life is nothing. Especially if you have a heavy hitting threat on board which can just beat in for 6 or 4 every turn. You seem to evaluate life a little too highly. Your opponent is only as good as the resources in his/her hand and on their board. If they've spent a whole turn and plenty of mana playing something to advance their board state (using their hand up to do so) and you can just wipe it away for one mana, you've gained a considerable advantage that has way more value to you than 4 life. 4 life doesn't help your opponent win.
4) your cards need to be more versatile. It's no good having a bunch of cards that by themselves do nothing to help you win. The sceptre is one of these do nothing and win more (if you get it) cards. Bant charm is the opposite; if you don't have your combo online it still helps you balance the board state and it can even protect your combo after it's online, as well as getting rid of artifacts which means it can shoot away lands just like the rest. You'd be silly not to run a full playset of these.
More than anything, you should at least give my suggestions a go. I'm confident my version of the deck would fare better against other modern decks than your own version, and there's a reason. Individual card power vs. Synergistic do-nothing cards.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Ok I do get where you guys are coming from but I'm not dropping muddle the mixture, I'm going simic, and I am also running at least 1 isochron scepter.
I really do get it that my creatures arent going to get the job done overly fast.....any suggestions in the colors I'm actually using?
I went simic almost entirely for muddle the mixture because it is the most consistent way to get liquimetal out and it's not a wasted draw if liquimetal is already in play. If you know a better way to search for liquimetal coating then that would get me to change colors.... anything else and it feels even clunkier than running r/g and trying to rely ancient stirrings.... it won't work.
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liquimetal coating
muddle the mixture
splinter
trygon predator
viridian shaman
acidic slime
phyrexian metamorph
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=488661&highlight=liquimetal
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=440345&highlight=liquimetal
Please keep in mind that advice on actual decklist's should be posted in Deck Creation.
Here's the thing though. You have to be very careful to make sure the deck still has a strong game plan when you don't draw liquimetal coating.
The result is that you end up with less artifact removal in your 60 cards, so in a way, your primary sort of 'combo' is diluted. However, you end up with a stronger, more robust deck with flexible gameplans which can respond effectively to multiple deck styles and angles of play. That's the important thing, versatility.
So, here's the gist:
4x liquimetal coating
2x trygon
4x bant charm
2x nature's claim
3x elvish scrapper
2x snapcaster mage
That would be a very strong base to work from. The rest of the deck should be efficient threats, probably in green/white or mono white. Hero of bladehold Seems solid. Geist of saint traft also seems strong and snapcaster mage is a winner as well.
The important thing to remember is that if you don't have liquimetal, the other cards become next to useless, and you pretty much lose on the spot. That's why limiting the "pure" artifact removal to as few copies as possible is a good move. Cards like bant charm are your saving grace though, as they can get creatures as well (even indestructible ones!) and hold you out in a tight spot. The eelvish dude isn't the most aggressive, but it's at least a chump blocker if you haven't got the main card yet.
In summary, my advise is to have a 'removal suite' based around liquimetal rather than the entire deck. You'll thank me when you win. Populate the rest of the deck with very efficient and aggressive midrange powerhouse cards. Don't go above mana cost 4 for your threats and put in a small amount (maybe 3 or 4) of perhaps mana leak as a failsafe to protect your early game.
Build it like a midrange deck, basically
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=499672
I find between stirrings and thirsts, I can usually get a liquimetal out. Thirst is nice if you have an extra coating in hand, since having 2 isn't that useful. It wins most of it games by killing their lands and finishing them with man lands or manic vandals. I never considered using muddle to tutor for liquimetal. The double blue could be tough to pull off. I like using fabricate as it often gives me the chance to search for batterskull if i'm in a position where i can cast it or need it to stabilize. I've tested it against a decent amount of decks and it's been pretty good. The only problem with it is that nobody likes playing against land destruction...
@moronicizer Yeah you may be right about uu in the cost being difficult in 3 colors so I'm sticking with my original u/g plan.
Heres what I have so far.
voltaic key
liquimetal coating
isochron scepter
muddle the mixture
tel-jilad justice
trygon predator
splinter
And these are possible....opinions? Other good targets for isochron scepter?
mana leak
acidic slime
viridian shaman
thirst for knowledge this ones going in unless someone has a better idea?
Also a few other cards I was eyeballing...
tanglewalker, mimic vat, oxidize
4x liquimetal coating
4x isochron scepter
spells: 18
4x muddle the mixture
4x tel-jilad justice
3x mana leak
2x boomerang
2x simic charm
3x splinter
4x trygon predator
4x viridian shaman
4x acidic slime
4x liquimetal coating
4x isochron scepter
spells: 18
4x muddle the mixture
4x tel-jilad justice
3x mana leak
2x boomerang
2x simic charm
3x splinter
4x trygon predator
4x viridian shaman
4x acidic slime
OR
4x liquimetal coating
1x isochron scepter
4x muddle the mixture
4x tel-jilad justice
4x rune snag
3x boomerang
3x splinter
3x noble hierarch
4x trygon predator
4x viridian shaman
4x acidic slime
You want cards which would give you some benefit if you topdecked them in the mid game after you'd exhausted your hand.
Unless you've got a bunch of card draw, mana leak is better than rune snag. You want your counters to be more effective in the early game while you set up your liquimetal removal machine.
Also remember that liquimetal isn't a complete lock strategy. You are just using it for value to disrupt your opponent's strategy. Don't worry about infinitely repeating effects. A handful of strategic removal spells will set you up to win.
As it stands, acidic slime is too expensive to work here. You want beefy "deal with this or die" creatures to go alongside your powerful removal strategy. That way, even if liquimetal never comes online you can still beat them out effectively. At the moment your deck does absolutely nothing if you don't assemble your pieces, and even then it only wins slowly.
Sample list for you:
4x birds of paradise
4x geist of saint traft
4x loxodon smiter
2x snapcaster mage
4x bant charm
3x elvish scrapper
2x trygon predator
3x path to exile
24x lands
Here you've got a potent removal suite, a decent counter suite, all backed up by a couple of snapcasters. You've also got the range to beat down on your opponent if you need to, and block nasty early plays your opponents have.
It's not going to set any tournaments alight, but it's a whole lot better than the other lists so far.
You're mistaking a combo strategy for control.
As the combo player, YOU care if it takes a while to kill them as it gives them time to find an out.
Liquimetal is not a hard lock, so time is relevant here.
If you want a true mana disruption lock, I'd look into something involving ghost quarter and life from the loam or crucible of worlds.
Tl;Dr. You want the game over.
Let's analyse what we've got:
1) your "combo" doesn't win the game, it just destroys things. In light of this, you need ways to close out the game, and do it quickly. Otherwise you run the risk of giving your opponent too much time to deal with your plan. That's one point in favour of having a cheap aggressive, hard to remove beater as your wincon. It's also your backup (two points)
2) let's examine what the liquimetal coating "combo" does; it is effectively a slightly different kind of removal suite that can hit lands as well as creatures. Other decks that employ this kind of heavy-removal strategy are jund and midrange strategies which have the ability to capitalize on your opponent's tempo loss in a powerful way. Basically, what are you doing once you've got rid of a few things your opponents control? If it's durdling for six turns or swinging for ten turns with a 2/2( which isn't resistant to removal, I might add!) I think you seriously need to rebuild your concept from the ground up. You need threats (three points).
3) nature's claim is one of the most effective removal spells at your disposal. One mana, instant speed. Boom. If you are able to remove your opponent's best permanent for one mana and seriously disrupt their game plan, 4 life is nothing. Especially if you have a heavy hitting threat on board which can just beat in for 6 or 4 every turn. You seem to evaluate life a little too highly. Your opponent is only as good as the resources in his/her hand and on their board. If they've spent a whole turn and plenty of mana playing something to advance their board state (using their hand up to do so) and you can just wipe it away for one mana, you've gained a considerable advantage that has way more value to you than 4 life. 4 life doesn't help your opponent win.
4) your cards need to be more versatile. It's no good having a bunch of cards that by themselves do nothing to help you win. The sceptre is one of these do nothing and win more (if you get it) cards. Bant charm is the opposite; if you don't have your combo online it still helps you balance the board state and it can even protect your combo after it's online, as well as getting rid of artifacts which means it can shoot away lands just like the rest. You'd be silly not to run a full playset of these.
More than anything, you should at least give my suggestions a go. I'm confident my version of the deck would fare better against other modern decks than your own version, and there's a reason. Individual card power vs. Synergistic do-nothing cards.
I really do get it that my creatures arent going to get the job done overly fast.....any suggestions in the colors I'm actually using?
I went simic almost entirely for muddle the mixture because it is the most consistent way to get liquimetal out and it's not a wasted draw if liquimetal is already in play. If you know a better way to search for liquimetal coating then that would get me to change colors.... anything else and it feels even clunkier than running r/g and trying to rely ancient stirrings.... it won't work.